Amoonguss

[Overview]

<p>With the seemingly endless amount of Grass / Poison Pokemon in the game, why in the world would you ever use Amoonguss? It seems like it's just the same thing as every other bulky Grass-type: good bulk, powder moves, and a decent Grass-tpye STAB. It also has a terrible match-up against some of the most common threats in DW OU, like Tyranitar, Chandelure, and Genesect. That's not even considering its sparse movepool and mediocre offenses. So, with all things considered, why would you ever use Amoonguss?</p>

<p>The reason: Amoonguss has more than a few tricks up its sleeve. 114/70/80 defenses are great, and its typing is handy-dandy against rain as it can take even strong STAB Water-type moves from both sides of the spectrum. In addition to this, it is quite possibly the best counter to the "Volt" part of VoltTurn cores, as it takes miniscule amounts from any Volt Switch and can Regenerate the damage off later. Amoonguss also has Spore, the famed 100% accurate Sleep move. Amoonguss is far and away the bulkiest user of this move and can use it to the fullest. However, the big reason why Amoonguss is so good in DW lies in its ability; Regenerator. Recovering 1/3rd of its HP merely by switching is fantastic, and greatly aids its walling capabilities.</p>

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Spore
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Clear Smog / Stun Spore
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
item: Shed Shell / Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Regenerator
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is basically the epitome of any Amoonguss set, and with good reason. Amoonguss is capable of taking physical hits nearly as well as the mighty Skarmory. Not even Life Orb Terrakion can reliably KO Amoonguss at +2. In addition, due to its massive HP stat, special hits can be tanked as well, thanks to a combination of good bulk and Regenerator.</p>

<p>The one move that most people know Amoonguss by is Spore; which is considered to be among the best moves in the game. With Spore, Amoonguss can incapacitate one of its counters, such as Genesect or Tyranitar, for a good number of turns, which is very useful as letting down Amoonguss can open the path for many set up sweepers such as Terrakion. Giga Drain is a solid STAB move capable of healing Amoonguss, which in tandem with Regenerator can make Amoonguss a solid defensive wall. For the third slot, both moves listed have their merit, and both attempt to stop sweeps. Clear Smog is a weak, but STAB, Poison move which warrants the same effect as Haze on the opponent’s Pokémon. This is handy for things like breaking Multi Scale on Dragonite, or stopping a Keldeo from boosting up too many times before Giga Draining it. However, Stun Spore is a very worth move too which is used to cripple some of Amoonguss’s top counters or just to stop a sweep in general. The last slot is normally the hidden power of choice. Fire can be used in order to deal with Genesect and Ferrothorn, while Ice provides better coverage against Dragons. </p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are very straightforward; HP and Defense are maxed out to deal with physical threats as well as possible. For an example of Amoonguss’s physical bulk, a +1 Dragonite can hit for about 75% with Outrage. Amoonguss can then either Clear Smog to break Multi Scale and reset the boosts, Spore or Stun Spore to cripple Dragonite if it lacks a Lum Berry, or just flat out HP Ice it if it has taken some previous Stealth Rock and residual damage. A specially defensive set, however, has plenty of merits. Many of Amoonguss’s weaknesses come from predominantly special attacks (Fire, Ice, Psychic), which can be improved upon with special defense EVs and sometimes Rain. </p>

<p>Despite Amoonguss’s seemingly endless uses with just its bulk and movepool, Amoonguss is very limited in scope without its true claim to fame; Regenerator. With the ability to gain a third of your health merely by switching, it is easy to see why Amoonguss is so useful as a wall.
As far as items go, it is basically a toss up between extra recovery that is given from Leftovers, or the ability to switch out of the deadly Chandelure. While the latter is recommended, Leftovers can be very useful for cancelling out Sand damage and lets you switch in with hazards more. </p>

<p>It is important to note that, despite its stats, Amoonguss should not be used as a wall, or at least as other walls are seen. While other walls try to knock down HP slowly while buffering hits, Amoonguss lacks a recovery move and any moves (besides Toxic) capable of making it a complete wall, per se. Rather, Amoonguss is instead used for stopping enemy sweepers in their tracks before they can begin to knock down your team. With its flurry of moves to do this, Amoonguss is very capable of performing its job as a sweeper stopper very well.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Amoonguss has a few other noteworthy moves it can use. It has access to Payback, which can damage Gengar a good deal and ward off Chandelure from Substituting on it and Calm Minding up. For the most part, however, it has miniscule uses and these are belittled even more when compared with the support movepool available to Amoonguss. Synthesis is available, although not recommended due to the amount of sand and rain going around. Still, if you are running Sun and don't want to rely on Regenerator, then it's certainly an optionToxic is available for dual status if Stun Spore is not your thing, and it can be used very effectively; especially by something as bulky as Amoonguss. If you are running rain or sun with Amoonguss, sticking Rain Dance or Sunny Day on the mushroom may be very helpful as a backup solution or just something to put pressure on your opponent (or, y'know, provide weather support if necessary). While it may seem a bit tempting due to its power, Sludge Bomb has mediocre coverage, but it has that good chance of poisoning. Overall, Amoonguss suffers from a small movepool with little to do but the options already provided. Many of Amoonguss's moves are very hard to be replaced as well, as it has a heavy case of 4-moveslot syndrome.</p>

<p>Amoonguss also is just as easily capable of running a specially defensive set instead of a defensive one, if your team happens to need it. It should be noted that with the combination of Spore, Stun Spore, Clear Smog, and Giga Drain, specially defensive Amoonguss is one of the best Keldeo counters under rain. Amoonguss gives many common rain sweepers a lot of trouble, and this is amplified if specially defensive is used.

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Note that all of the following counters are only true "counters" after Amoonguss has used up its one Spore. Another thing to note is that Amoonguss is a Pokemon which is tailored to do a certain thing: stop set up sweepers in their tracks. Now, beyond this, Amoonguss has some pretty serious issues with very common Pokemon. Without a Shed Shell, Chandelure incapacitates Amoonguss no matter what set it is running. Tyranitar isn't hurt too badly by any of Amoonguss's attacks, and can retaliate with a strong STAB move or a super effective move. In addition, Tyranitar can just set up Stealth Rock while Amoonguss tries to do some sort of damage. Genesect takes Giga Drain with ease, is immune to Clear Smog, and takes pitiful damage from Hidden Power Ice. However, it must be wary of Stun Spore or Hidden Power Fire. Some more common bulky Pokemon that counter Amoonguss include Heatran, who only fears Stun Spore, Skarmory, who can set up hazards or just flat out attack with a STAB super effective Brave Bird, and Chansey, who takes a pittance from any of Amoonguss's "attacks". Manaphy is also a solid counter as well, since it is immune to Spore and Stun Spore while rain is up, and is not 2HKO'd by GIga Drain, meaning that it can freely Tail Glow and Rest before blasting Amoonguss away with Ice Beam. Ninetales, in a similar fashion to Heatran, will take practically nothing from Amoonguss's coverage moves and only really fears the Powders, while it can Substitute or do massive damage to Amoonguss with a STAB fire move. </p>

<p>Probably the most reliable counters to the fungus are the dreaded Magic Bounce users: Xatu and Espeon. With Xatu's resistance to a good amount of Amoonguss's attacks, and Espeon's powerful STAB Psychics floating around will both cause huge trouble for Amoonguss. Natural Cure users, such as some Celebi and Chansey, also take pittance from Amoonguss's attacks.</p>
 
Specially defensive always gives me more of a headache and is more potent against rain teams. I'd make that the main EV spread. The movest itself looks very nice though, but swap the positions of Giga Drain and Spore. Consider slashing Shed Shell before Leftovers, as Amoonguss relies on being able to switch for recovery and being trapped by Chandelure is not fun.
 
I personally think that there should be two sets, one Specially Defensive, one Physically Defensive. The specially defensive set can take on rain teams easier, yes, but has trouble with powerful physical attackers. The physically defensive set can capitalize on its resistances to Fighting. The majority of its weaknesses are specially-based anyway, i.e. Ice, Fire, Psychic, etc.
 
I was planning on writing up one set and then writing up a speciall defensive set in the additional comments. For me, Amoonguss is meant to stop sweepers and it is one of the few Pokes that can reliably stop Terrakion even at +2 with LO, which I have found that physically defensive is much more useful overall more useful than specially defensive. If it's really a concern then I guess i could swap two sets on there.

Also I have primarily used Amoonguss on Rainstall, where I have found that physically defensive is better due to the rain cancelling out the fire weakness which is predominatly special attacks. So yeah.
 
With 32 Attack EVs and a neutral nature, Payback OHKOs Chandelure on the switch in to Stealth Rock
32 Atk Amoonguss Payback vs 4 HP/0 Def Chandelure: 27.48% - 32.82%. I'm not sure where you got that calc from, because even if Payback was still 100 bp on switching pokemon: 32 Atk Amoonguss Payback vs 4 HP/0 Def Chandelure: 54.96% - 64.89%.
 
On another note, you need to take the brackets out of your set so that it looks like this:
[SET]
name: Standard Offense Breaker
move 1: Spore
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Clear Smog / Stun Spore
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
nature: Bold
ability: Regenerator
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Also, is there a better name for the set?
 
32 Atk Amoonguss Payback vs 4 HP/0 Def Chandelure: 27.48% - 32.82%. I'm not sure where you got that calc from, because even if Payback was still 100 bp on switching pokemon: 32 Atk Amoonguss Payback vs 4 HP/0 Def Chandelure: 54.96% - 64.89%.
i'm feeling retarded...idk what happened with that calc. recalcing atm...

edit: dammit calced based on attack stat not defense lolol. yeah, i totally f'ed that one up. tyvm!!!

as for another set name, i guess i could put sweeper stopper...wall doesn't really work as a name since it's not good as a wall, but for screwing up sweepers.
 
Ok, looks good.

Just one VERY VERY minor detail:

If you are going to mention payback and weather support in additional options, you may as well mention Sludge Bomb as it is Amoonguss's strongest STAB, and has a decent chance of poisoning.

Its not the best idea in the world, but then again, neither is Sunny Day Amoonguss O.0

Also note that with the onset of gen 5, Payback was changed such that it no longer deals double damage on a switch. Just sayin'
 
Sorry that it's taken so long for someone to approve this.

Overview
  • Your prose is a bit too informal, but aside from needing to mention that Amoonguss is good at taking Volt Switches the content here is fine.
Standard Amoonguss
  • Shed Shell before Leftovers, as switching is vital for Amoonguss.
  • Um yeah Amoonguss is nowhere close to Skarmory's level of physical bulk so remove that....
  • You need to explain every move choice in Set Comments
  • AC: Put more emphasis on the specially defensive spread for dealing with rain teams.
  • AC: Synthesis on sun teams.
Other Options
  • Looks fine.
Checks and Counters
  • Discuss Spore having already been used before moving onto the counters.
  • Payback won't OHKO Chandelure on the switch due to BW Mechanics.
  • Manaphy in rain can just pound Amoonguss with Ice Beam or Surf and then just Rest off the damage from Giga Drain, or Tail Glow / CM up if Amoonguss lacks Clear Smog.
  • Be more specific about your examples; Heatran only fears the powders and has Fire-type STAB, Skarmory can lay down Spikes and has STAB Brave Bird if it really feels the need to attack Amoonguss
  • Ninetales
  • Remove the last sentence. It's out of place and redundant.
Once these changes are made
APPROVED
 
Sorry that it's taken so long for someone to approve this.





Overview
  • Your prose is a bit too informal, but aside from needing to mention that Amoonguss is good at taking Volt Switches the content here is fine. Aight
Standard Amoonguss
  • Shed Shell before Leftovers, as switching is vital for Amoonguss. Aight
  • Um yeah Amoonguss is nowhere close to Skarmory's level of physical bulk so remove that.... I'll do some calcs later, but Amoonguss takes physical hits slightly less than Skarm does.
  • You need to explain every move choice in Set Comments Aight
  • AC: Put more emphasis on the specially defensive spread for dealing with rain teams. Aight
  • AC: Synthesis on sun teams. Tbqh I've tried this and you dont really need it with Regenerator and Amoonguss's 4 moveslot syndrome. Giga/Spore is obv needed 100% of the time, and then there's a Hidden Power most of the time, and with Synthesis you can't really hurt things that resist your main attacks once you've Spored. I'll add it in though.
Other Options
  • Looks fine.
Checks and Counters
  • Discuss Spore having already been used before moving onto the counters. Aight
  • Payback won't OHKO Chandelure on the switch due to BW Mechanics. Thought I removed that, thx.
  • Manaphy in rain can just pound Amoonguss with Ice Beam or Surf and then just Rest off the damage from Giga Drain, or Tail Glow / CM up if Amoonguss lacks Clear Smog. Clear Smog does nothing to help the arguement; Giga doesn't 2HKO offensive Manaphy.
  • Be more specific about your examples; Heatran only fears the powders and has Fire-type STAB, Skarmory can lay down Spikes and has STAB Brave Bird if it really feels the need to attack Amoonguss Aight
  • Ninetales Aight
  • Remove the last sentence. It's out of place and redundant. Aight
Once these changes are made
APPROVED
Probs making changes on this tomorrow....

edit: against fire moves that hit hard on the physical and special side:

+1 +Dragonite Fire Punch

Defensive Skarm: 47.30%-55.69%
Defensive: Amoonguss:57.41%-68.06%
Specially Defensive Skarm: 61.68%-73.05%
Specially Defensive Amoonguss: 85.65%-100.93%

+ 0Salamence Life Orb Fire Blast

Defensive Skarm: 97.60%-114.97%
Specially Defensive Skarm: 65.86%-77.8%
Defensive Amoonguss: 67.59%-79.63%
Specially Defensive Amoonguss: 49.76%-55.09%

Takes physical hits a bit worse, about 10% ish if both physically defensive, but specially is much better. So they are comparable.

Double edit: finished the corrections, except the Skarm removal one.
 
[Overview]

<p>With the seemingly endless amount of Grass / Poison Pokemon in the game, why in the world would you ever use Amoonguss? It seems like it's just the same thing as every other bulky Grass-type: good bulk, powder moves, and a decent Grass-type STAB. It's also has a terrible match-up against some of the most common threats in DW OU,; like such as Tyranitar, Chandelure, and Genesect. That's not even to mentioning its sparse movepool and mediocre offenses. So, with all things considered, why would you ever use Amoonguss?</p>

<p>The reason is this: Amoonguss has more than a few tricks up its sleeve. 114/70/80 defenses are great, and its typing is handy-dandy against rain teams as it can take even strong STAB Water-type moves from both sides of the spectrum. In addition to this, it is quite possibly the best counter to the "Volt" part of VoltTurn cores, as it takes miniscule amounts of damage from any Volt Switch and can Regenerate the damage off later. Amoonguss also has Spore,; the famed 100% accurate sleep move that everyone knows about. Amoonguss is far and away the bulkiest user of this move, which means that it can abuse it to the fullest with its supporting capabilites. However, the big reason why Amoonguss is so good in DW lies in its ability; Regenerator. Recovering 1/3rd of its HP merely by switching is fantastic, and greatly aids its walling capabilities.</p>

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Spore
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Clear Smog / Stun Spore
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
item: Shed Shell / Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Regenerator
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is basically the epitome of any Amoonguss set, and with good reason. Amoonguss is capable of taking physical hits nearly as well as better than even the mighty Skarmory and it has a movepool almost completely designed to do this. Not even Life Orb Terrakion can reliably OHKO Amoonguss at +2. In addition, due to its massive HP stat, special hits can be tanked as well too, thanks to with a combination of good bulk and Regenerator. </p>

<p>The one move that most people know Amoonguss by is Spore,; which is considered to be among the best moves in the game. With Spore, Amoonguss can incapacitate one of its counters, such as Genesect or Tyranitar, for a good number of turns, helping to keep Amoonguss alive to perform its walling duties. which is very useful as letting down Amoonguss can open the path for many set up sweepers such as Terrakion. Giga Drain is a solid STAB move capable of healing Amoonguss, which in tandem with Regenerator can make Amoonguss a solid defensive wall. For the third slot, both moves listed have their merit, and both aid in attempt to stopping sweeps. Clear Smog is a weak, but STAB, Poison move which warrants the same effect serves the same purpose as Haze on the opponent's Pokémon. The damage can come in is is handy for things like breaking Multiscale on Dragonite, or stopping a Keldeo from boosting up too many times before using Giga Draining on it. However, Stun Spore is a very worthwile move as well since it can cripple set-up sweepers. too which is used to cripple some of Amoonguss’s top counters or just to stop a sweep in general. The last slot is normally the Hidden Power of choice. Hidden Power Fire can be used in order to deal with Genesect and Ferrothorn, while Hidden Power Ice provides better coverage against Dragon-types.(remove space)</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are very straightforward; HP and Defense are maxed out to deal with physical threats as well as possible. For an example of Amoonguss's physical bulk, a +1 Dragonite can hit for about 75% with Outrage. Amoonguss can then either Clear Smog to break Multiscale and reset the boosts, Spore or Stun Spore to cripple Dragonite if it lacks a Lum Berry, or just flat out Hidden Power Ice it if it has taken some previous Stealth Rock and residual damage. A specially defensive set, however, has plenty of merits, allowing Amoonguss to be quite a handful for rain teams to deal with. Many of Amoonguss's weaknesses come from predominantly special attacks (Fire, Ice, Psychic), which can be improved upon with special defense EVs and sometimes Rain. </p>

<p>Despite Amoonguss's seemingly endless uses with just its bulk and movepool, Amoonguss is very limited in scope without its true claim to fame; Regenerator. With the ability to gain a third of your its health merely by switching, it is easy to see why Amoonguss is so useful as a wall. (same paragraph) As such, a Shed Shell is recommended for escaping from Chandelure. far as items go, it is basically a toss up between extra recovery that is given from Leftovers, or the ability to switch out of the deadly Chandelure. While the latter is recommended, However, Leftovers can be very useful for cancelling out sand damage and mitigates the impact of lets you switch in with entry hazards more. It should be noted that Amoonguss is not capable of acting as a wall for prolonged periods of time due to its lack of a reliable recovery move or passive damage, and it is better suited to act as a defensive pivot.</p>

<p>It is important to note that, despite its stats, Amoonguss should not be used as a wall, or at least as other walls are seen. While other walls try to knock down HP slowly while buffering hits, Amoonguss lacks a recovery move and any moves (besides Toxic) capable of making it a complete wall, per se. Rather, Amoonguss is instead used for stopping enemy sweepers in their tracks before they can begin to knock down your team. With its flurry of moves to do this, Amoonguss is very capable of performing its job as a sweeper stopper very well.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Amoonguss has a few other noteworthy moves it can use. It has access to Payback, which can damage Gengar a good deal and ward off Chandelure from Substituting on it and Calm Minding up. For the most part, however, it has miniscule uses and these are belittled even more when compared with the support movepool available to Amoonguss. Synthesis is available, although not recommended due to how common the amount of sand and rain are going around. Still, if you are running sun and don't want to rely on Regenerator, then it's certainly an option. Toxic is available for dual status if Stun Spore is not your thing, and it can be used very effectively; especially by something as bulky as Amoonguss. If you are running rain or sun with Amoonguss, sticking Rain Dance or Sunny Day on the mushroom may be very helpful as a backup solution to opposing weather teams. or just something to put pressure on your opponent (or, y'know, provide weather support if necessary). While it may seem a bit tempting due to its power, Sludge Bomb has mediocre coverage, but it has that good chance of poisoning. Overall, Amoonguss suffers from a small movepool with little to do but the options already provided. Many of Amoonguss's moves are very hard to be replaced as well, as it has a heavy case of 4-moveslot syndrome.</p>

<p>Amoonguss also is just as easily capable of running a specially defensive set instead of a defensive one, if your team happens to need it. It should be noted that with the combination of Spore, Stun Spore, Clear Smog, and Giga Drain, specially defensive Amoonguss is one of the best Keldeo counters under rain. Amoonguss gives many common rain sweepers a lot of trouble, and this is amplified if specially defensive is used. (Already mentioned in AC)

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Note that all of the following counters are only true "counters" after Amoonguss has used up its one Spore. Another thing to note is that Amoonguss is a Pokemon which is tailored to do a certain thing: stop set up sweepers in their tracks. Now, beyond this, Amoonguss has some pretty serious issues with very common Pokemon. Without a Shed Shell, Chandelure incapacitates Amoonguss no matter what set it is running. Tyranitar isn't hurt too badly by any of Amoonguss's attacks, and can retaliate with a strong STAB move or a super effective move. In addition, Tyranitar can just set up Stealth Rock while Amoonguss tries to do some sort of damage. Genesect takes Giga Drain with ease, is immune to Clear Smog, and takes redundant pitiful damage from Hidden Power Ice. However, it must be wary of should Genesect get hit with a Stun Spore or Hidden Power Fire, it will cause either crippling or massive damage. Some more common bulky Pokemon that counter Amoonguss include Heatran, who only fears Stun Spore, Skarmory, who can set up hazards or just flat out attack with a STAB super effective Brave Bird, and Chansey, who takes a pittance from any of Amoonguss's "attacks". Manaphy is also a solid counter as well, since it is immune to Spore and Stun Spore while rain is up, and is not 2HKOed by GIga Drain, meaning that it can freely Tail Glow and Rest before blasting Amoonguss away with Ice Beam. Ninetales, in a similar fashion to Heatran, will take practically nothing from Amoonguss's coverage moves and only really fears status moves the Powders, while it can Substitute or do massive damage to Amoonguss with a STAB Fire-type move. </p>

<p>Probably The most reliable counters to the fungus are probably the dreaded Magic Bounce users: Xatu and Espeon. Neither are at all concerned with status moves, and Xatu takes little from most of Amoonguss's attacks. Furthermore, both can devastate Amoonguss with STAB Psychic. Natural Cure Pokemon also provide issues due to Amoonguss's lack of offense, as any status afflictions will wear off as soon as they switch out, though this could potentially end a Spore-induced sleep, allowing Amoonguss to throw out its signature move again. With Xatu's resistance to a good amount of Amoonguss's attacks, and Espeon's powerful STAB Psychics floating around will both cause huge trouble for Amoonguss. Natural Cure users, such as some Celebi and Chansey, also take pittance from Amoonguss's attacks.</p>

GP Approved: 1/2
gpstamp
 
I know that this comment might be a little late, but I am suprised that there is no mention of it absorbing toxic spikes which I have found to be very useful. I feel that this is important because there is not any viable defensive Pokemon with this ability besides tentacruel and he has a completely different secondary typing. Coupled with Amoonguss's regenerator ability to allow it to switch in and out constantly this is a very potent ability. I also think that this set is best named Utility Counter because its main purpose is to stop setup sweepers.
 
Back
Top