Ampharos (QC 1/3)

[Cheryl.]

[OVERVIEW]

• Movepool is helpful for Ampharos, with moves like Agility to help carve a niche out for it.
• Has decent bulk to help it take a hit.
• Faces big competition from the other Electric-types, leaving it with only a few niches. Lanturn in general will mostly outclass it, competing for the role of pivot, cleric, and even offensive sets.
• Slow before an Agility boost.
• Falls short against offensive teams if it can't set up.

[SET]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Focus Blast
item: Life Orb
ability: Static
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Agility helps boost Ampharos' Speed, helping it sweep.
• Thunderbolt is a nice, powerful STAB move.
• Hidden Power Ice hits Ground-types like Sandslash and Claydol for good damage, as well as hitting Torterra 4x super-effectively. It also hits Grass types such as Vileplume and Gourgeist.
• Focus Blast provides important coverage against Steel-types and Ground-types that are weak to it, like Piloswine and Rhydon. It also hits Abomasnow for super effective damage.
• Hidden Power Grass can be used to OHKO Rhydon and Quagsire and do decent damage to Lanturn but doesn't have much use after that.

Set Details
========

• Maximum Speed investment makes Ampharos as fast as possible after a boost, outspeeding the entire unboosted tier.
• Maximum SpA EV investment with a Modest Nature and Life Orb makes Ampharos as strong as possible.
• Static is chosen as the ability as it's the only usable one in Singles and can get a clutch paralysis off at times.
• Timid can be used to outspeed Choice Scarfers under 89 Speed, such as Sawk and Mesprit, but it is a small number of mons to forgo Modest. it also makes Amphros compete more with Agility Lanturn, which is not a very good idea.

Usage Tips
========

• Set up Agility on mons that Ampharos can take hits from or resist, such as Flying-types and Water-types. Mantine and Rotom-Fan are examples of these kinds of set-up oppurtunities.
• It is best to use this set late-game to clean once Ampharos' checks and counters have been weakened or eliminated.

Team Options
========

• Pokemon that can defeat bulky Ground-types that can take Focus Blast or HP Ice, like Samurott and Abomasnow, can be good partners.
• Ampharos appreciates wallbreakers that can get bulky walls, like Mega Audino, out of the way, so things like Abomasnow and Aurorus are good partners.
• Grass-types work very well with Ampharos, as they take out bulky Grounds and some Grass-types, like Abomasnow and Torterra, can weaken walls effectively, while Ampharos resists Flying-type moves.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Choice Specs is a decent option for a lot of power right off the bat, but being locked into a move is pretty unfavorable for Ampharos. it also faces stiff competition with the other Electric-types, who are faster or have a better movepool.
• A bulky utility set can be used to utilize Ampharos' decent bulk and useful moves like Heal Bell to support the team, but is generally outclassed by other supporters like Mega Audino. It also is outclassed entirely by Lanturn, who has more resistances and Scald.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types**: While most Ground-types are too afraid of Focus Blast (Steelix, Piloswine) or HP Ice (Torterra) to switch in safely, they are the only type that can hit Ampharos super-effectively, and more bulky ones, like Claydol, Golurk, and Quagsire, can take a hit and hit Ampharos hard.

**Pokemon with high Special Defense**: Amphros may have a good 115 Special Attack stat, but it still has a lot of trouble breaking through special walls like Lanturn, Assault Vest Hariyama, and Mega Audino.

**Revenge killers**: Choice Scarfers like Sawk and Mesprit can outspeed Amphraos after an Agility and revneg kill it. Ampharos is also quite slow before an Agility as well, so natyrally faster mons like Sceptile and Rotom can outspeed it and do a lot of damage to it. Even slower threats like Shiftry and Magmortar can force Ampharos out, and that can mean trouble for your team if you have to switch it out.

 

[Cheryl.]

QC Ready! :)

 

[Punchshroom]

[OVERVIEW]

• Diverse movepool with moves like Agility and Focus Blast helps Ampharos stand out from the other Electric-types.
• Has decent bulk to help it take a hit.
• Faces big competition from the other Electric-types, leaving it with only a few niches.
• Slow before an Agility boost, outsped by Choice Scarfers over 89 Speed after the boost as well.
• Falls short against offensive teams if it can't set up.

- Ampharos's movepool is not really that diverse or even unique for the most part (Raichu gets Focus Blast too); just mention that it is adequate for Ampharos.
- The competition with other Electric-types should really be emphasized, especially with Lanturn which strongly competes with pretty much every role Ampharos has to offer (pivot, cleric, offensive, even Agility itself), while having a better typing and movepool.
- The 'Choice Scarfers over 89' Speed bit tells me nothing; what Scarfers in particular can Ampharos fail to outspeed? (Rotom, Jynx, Haunter, Primeape, etc.)

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Agility helps boost Ampharos' Speed, helping it sweep.
• Thunderbolt is a nice, powerful STAB move.
• Hidden Power Ice hits Ground-types like Sandslash and Claydol for good damage, as well as hitting Torterra 4x super-effectively.
• Focus Blast provides important coverage against Steel-types and Ground-types that are weak to it, like Piloswine and Steelix.
• Hidden Power Grass can be used to OHKO Rhydon and Quagsire, but doesn't have much use after that.

- Hidden Power Ice lets Ampharos hit Grass-types in general (Vileplume and Gourgeist) in addition to Ground-types you mentioned that it hits.
- Add Rhydon and Abomasnow to the list of Focus Blast targets, and list Lanturn as a HP Grass target (obviously it does not OHKO Lanturn so rephrase that part).

Set Details
========

• Maximum Speed investment with a Timid Nature makes Ampharos outspeed the entire unboosted tier, including +2 Timid Gorebyss and +1 Vivillon, as well as any Choice Scarfers 89 Speed or lower.
• Maximum SpA EV investment with a Life Orb makes Ampharos as strong as possible.
• Static is chosen as the ability as it's the only usable one in Singles and can get a clutch paralysis off at times.

- The first point makes it seem like Ampharos would attempt to set up an Agility in front of an already boosted Gorebyss / Vivillon, which sounds incredibly risky (Ampharos risks being outright KOed by Gorebyss plus Lanturn would be a better candidate for this anyway, whereas Sash Vivillon can bring LO Ampharos down to a double KO) and thus isn't really an option. Outside of that instance, it's not like those two would attempt to boost alongside Ampharos to try and get the upper hand, so remove those two.
- What relevant mons Timid Ampharos manages to outspeed after a boost would be Choice Scarf Sawk, Choice Scarf Mesprit, and Choice Scarf Rotom-F (I excluded Rotom-S from this list since it cannot revenge Ampharos). This is a very small list of mons to outspeed to forgo Modest nature, so make Modest the main nature of this set, mention Timid in Set Details but also bring up Agility Lanturn as a better alternative (since Lanturn outspeeds more mons in comparison).

Usage Tips
========

• Set up Agility on mons that Ampharos can take hits from or resist, such as Flying-types and Water-types.
• It is best to use this set late-game to clean once Ampharos' checks and counters have been weakened or eliminated.

- Name some of these Pokemon; you're not going to set up in front of a Samurott, would you?

Team Options
========

• Pokemon that can defeat bulky Ground-types that can take Focus Blast or HP Ice, like Samurott and Abomasnow, can be good partners.
• Ampharos appreciates wallbreakers that can get bulky walls, like Mega Audino, out of the way, so things like Abomasnow and Barbaracle are good partners.
• Grass-types work very well with Ampharos, as they take out bulky Grounds and some Grass-types, like Abomasnow and Torterra, can weaken walls effectively, while Ampharos resists Flying-type moves.

- Barbaracle is not really a wallbreaker, and far from an ideal Pokemon to take on Mega Audino with.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Choice Specs is a decent option for a lot of power right off the bat, but being locked into a move is pretty unfavorable for Ampharos.
• A bulky utility set can be used to utilize Ampharos' decent bulk and useful moves like Heal Bell to support the team, but is generally outclassed by other supporters like Mega Audino.

- Mention the faster Electric-types offering stiff competition for Electric-type attackers.
- Again, list Lanturn as a mon that fiercely outclasses Ampharos, especially in the utility role thanks to its resistances + Scald.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Ground-types**: While most Ground-types are too afraid of Focus Blast (Steelix, Piloswine) or HP Ice (Torterra) to switch in safely, they are the only type that can hit Ampharos super-effectively, and more bulky ones, like Claydol and Quagsire, can take a hit and hit Ampharos hard.

**Mons that are immune/resistant to Ampharos' moves**: There are a few select mons that are immune to at least one of Ampharos' moves, like Lanturn and Rotom, and can still take a coverage move relatively well, so they can switch in safely.

**Revenge killers**: Any Choice Scarfer with over 89 Speed can outspeed Ampharos even after Agility and revenge it. Ampharos is also slow before a boost, so it needs to set up in order to tackle faster teams that well.

- You can mention Golurk as one of the bulkier Ground-types as well.
- 'Mons that are immune/..etc.' is far too vague, especially when you only have two examples. You could replace this section with 'Pokemon with high Special Defense'; Ampharos has a lot of trouble breaking through the likes of AV Hariyama, Lanturn, Mega Audino, and Musharna.
- As per mentioned, the Choice Scarf bit tells me nothing (what, I gotta use Scarf Leavanny now?); mention relevant Choice Scarf users. Mention naturally faster Pokemon that can threaten Ampharos for high damage as well.

 

[Cheryl.]

- Ampharos's movepool is not really that diverse or even unique for the most part (Raichu gets Focus Blast too); just mention that it is adequate for Ampharos.
- The competition with other Electric-types should really be emphasized, especially with Lanturn which strongly competes with pretty much every role Ampharos has to offer (pivot, cleric, offensive, even Agility itself), while having a better typing and movepool.
- The 'Choice Scarfers over 89' Speed bit tells me nothing; what Scarfers in particular can Ampharos fail to outspeed? (Rotom, Jynx, Haunter, Primeape, etc.)
- Hidden Power Ice lets Ampharos hit Grass-types in general (Vileplume and Gourgeist) in addition to Ground-types you mentioned that it hits.
- Add Rhydon and Abomasnow to the list of Focus Blast targets, and list Lanturn as a HP Grass target (obviously it does not OHKO Lanturn so rephrase that part).

- The first point makes it seem like Ampharos would attempt to set up an Agility in front of an already boosted Gorebyss / Vivillon, which sounds incredibly risky (Ampharos risks being outright KOed by Gorebyss plus Lanturn would be a better candidate for this anyway, whereas Sash Vivillon can bring LO Ampharos down to a double KO) and thus isn't really an option. Outside of that instance, it's not like those two would attempt to boost alongside Ampharos to try and get the upper hand, so remove those two.
- What relevant mons Timid Ampharos manages to outspeed after a boost would be Choice Scarf Sawk, Choice Scarf Mesprit, and Choice Scarf Rotom-F (I excluded Rotom-S from this list since it cannot revenge Ampharos). This is a very small list of mons to outspeed to forgo Modest nature, so make Modest the main nature of this set, mention Timid in Set Details but also bring up Agility Lanturn as a better alternative (since Lanturn outspeeds more mons in comparison).

- Name some of these Pokemon; you're not going to set up in front of a Samurott, would you?

- Barbaracle is not really a wallbreaker, and far from an ideal Pokemon to take on Mega Audino with.

- Mention the faster Electric-types offering stiff competition for Electric-type attackers.
- Again, list Lanturn as a mon that fiercely outclasses Ampharos, especially in the utility role thanks to its resistances + Scald.

- You can mention Golurk as one of the bulkier Ground-types as well.
- 'Mons that are immune/..etc.' is far too vague, especially when you only have two examples. You could replace this section with 'Pokemon with high Special Defense'; Ampharos has a lot of trouble breaking through the likes of AV Hariyama, Lanturn, Mega Audino, and Musharna.
- As per mentioned, the Choice Scarf bit tells me nothing (what, I gotta use Scarf Leavanny now?); mention relevant Choice Scarf users. Mention naturally faster Pokemon that can threaten Ampharos for high damage as well.

I applied the changes you suggested, thanks! :)

 

[erisia]

In the section for revenge killers, when you talk about pokemon that can "revenge" Ampharos before it sets up, I would mention slower threats like Magmortar and Shiftry to really emphasise how slow Ampharos is, and how it can be forced out by dangerous wallbreakers that can take chunks out of your team if you switch Ampharos out. You don't need a Sceptile to force it out, I mean.

The rest of the changes suggested by Punchshroom seem good for now so QC 1/3.

EDIT: You should call the last checks and counters section "Most offensive Pokemon" haha.

 

[Evan.]

any real reason that amphy is running max speed? i think that hitting jolly rhydon is the most you really need to hit and that's 208 investment. having that extra bulk could be real nice to help set up, especially on a mon that is being used because its fatter than the normal electric types

#roadto1k

 

[Punchshroom]

Alright BrandonBeast, you did a good enough job with this analysis that I have confidence you can do decently on other analyses that you're willing to try, but as for the Ampharos analysis itself...now that it is PU I'm afraid I'm gonna have to object to it.

There is barely any reason to consider Ampharos in general, as it is very heavily overshadowed by Lanturn much less other Electric-types. People can argue about its 'uniqueness' and individual traits all they want, but I don't really care if it "works"; at the end of the day it offers extremely little over the competition. Such is the fate of other 'workable' but highly outclassed PU Pokemon, like Ursaring, Lickilicky, Simipour, etc.

QC Rejected 1/3

By the way, don't let this get you down Brandon: it's not you, it's the Pokemon :/

 

[erisia]

I've talked to Punch about this and I agree with his decision. The quality of this analysis itself is great (which is why I initially gave this QC 1/3), but as time as passed it's become apparent that Ampharos has no real niche on competitive teams compared to more popular Electric-types or support mons. Lanturn is a superior tank the vast majority of the time due to its better typing and invested bulk, and it doesn't need a high SpA stat to be effective because it can use Scald to chunk switch-ins. Meanwhile, offensive Ampharos sets also have competition from Lanturn due to its higher number of setup opportunities and STAB Hydro Pump and Ice Beam to compensate for its weakness. We decided that Agility Lanturn wasn't worth uploading, so by proxy, an Ampharos analysis based on its Agility set isn't worth uploading. I don't see myself being able to justify using Ampharos over a competitor for any length of time on a non-meme team.

The only set I could see being distinct enough from other Electric-types to work is some sort of physically defensive Paralysis spreader with Static, but even Stunfisk gives this a run for its money due to Stealth Rock and STAB Earth Power.

Sorry that you've been waiting so long for a conclusion BrandonBeast, the QC team has just wanted some time to discuss things in general and to see how Ampharos' presence in the metagame changed over time. We may have been premature for asking that Ampharos get an analysis before the February tier-shift.

QC Rejected 2/3

 

[Hootie]

QC Rejected 3/3

Sorry about the time you had to put in this, but don't let this discourage you from picking up other analyses though. Locking.