Time for some monthly Hunter noms
Groudon-Primal A
- A-/B+
I am going justify this nom more than the others, as P don has been an Ubers darling for far too long and it's just naturally assumed that it's as good in AG (it isn't even close)
Alright, the first and immediate reason why Dong isn't suited for the meta is its
lack of longevity. As opposed to the Ubers meta, AG relies a lot on longevity in almost every team build. A major reason for this is the fact that lack of a Species Clause allows you to spam multiple Arceus forms, which can all pack recovery. You'll see a variety of CM mons which just aren't as viable/common in Ubers, a tier which relies on fast and hard hitting mons as opposed to the fat sweepers commonly seen in AG. What that does is firstly, any mons lacking any sort of recovery (except rest) become lesser desirable in AG. You naturally want something that can go toe-to-toe with most of the arcspam, and Primal Groudon just doesn't do that. This is unless, of course, you're capable of being an immediate threat to Arceus straight off of the bat, which again, Groudon-Primal is not. As a matter of fact, it is almost entirely worthless in most match-ups vs AG offense unless it is running an offensive set. And while the offensive sets are generally better suited for AG, they too suffer several issues like 4MSS, accuracy problems, being vulnerable to phazing or being really slow without rock polish, and just not being strong enough with it. Double dance seemingly fixes both those issues, but you just won't see it working a majority of the times in AG as P don just simply gets eliminated by then. Essentially, the offensive sets lack the reliability and consistency as the other three mons in A rank, coupled by the aforementioned longevity issues.
Another major issue why Primal Groudon is simply not worth the A rank is the fact that it simply is
not as good a Stealth Rock setter as most of the other Arceus forms. A major reason why P don has been a significant threat over time has been the fact that it can set up rocks and pressure common defoggers with its incredibly high attack. However, this is almost entirely untrue in the common AG meta. Most players will agree that they often prefer that their opponent's rock setter be P don, as most offense based teams carry Arceus setters, which outclass it in every way, or common leads like Excadrill, Smeargle, Shuckle etc which have no issues whatsoever against Primal don. It's often quite lackluster as a setter and ends up giving momentum instead, by being taunted, set up on or doing absolutely nothing about the hazards on your end. As a lead, it won't be far-fetched to call it borderline bad in AG, as most of the common leads have no problems doing their job vs it and most defoggers find it easy to defog vs it. The Swords Dance + rocks set, while good, still is not nearly as effective in practice vs stall because Lugia + Giratina pressure it to death, not to mention the jump of usage Groundceus and Zygarde have seen in Gen 7. It's just really mediocre and not nearly as versatile in AG as it is in Ubers.
Finally, the last point to be mentioned in this post is Groudon's general
inability to deal with the AG meta. Besides being terrible vs Mega Rayquaza, Groudon would surprisingly struggle to switch into anything comfortably that isn't called Primal Kyogre (while toxic/Ice beam is still a threat), while every single mon from S rank till B- rank (with the exception of Ferrothorn, Celesteela, Magearna and Muk-A) have some very obvious answers for Groudon without being ridiculously gimmicky. This results in Groudon being an extremely plain mon which will never impact as many games as you'd expect it to. It soft checks some mons like Xerneas, Arceus-Steel, Primal Kyogre and Rockceus, but due to its aforementioned lack on longevity, it just takes a major hit (all of the mons mentioned before 3hko it in the best case scenario) and has no way of recovering the damage done. Even if P don then chooses to set up, it is not overly difficult to switch into it for any playstyle as offense usually carries Mray/Groundceus/Zygarde/Ogre, all of which can comfortably OHKO don and usually outspeed it, whereas stall carries Lugia/Ground or water ceus/Giratina/Zygarde etc which wouldn't mind switching into most P don sets. The point is that no one particular set of Primal Groudon really stands out as meta changing enough in order for it to maintain its A rank, especially considering how game changing mons like Lunala, Xerneas, Celesteela and Ferrothorn struggle at A-. This is further reinforced by the fact that Groudon is quite simply the worst mon in A rank and barely justifies its presence with the mons in A-. I strongly recommend a drop to B+, but considering how this mon was placed at S last gen and hasn't really received a major nerf besides the rise of Zygarde and lesser keys spam, I'm fine with a drop to A-.
Lunala from A- to
A
There are several reasons why Lunala has been one of the best additions of gen 7. It has some very versatile and very viable sets, namely choice scarf which acts as an anti offense set, choice specs/CM Sub Lunala which are especially brilliant at breaking stall and Z move Lunala which is just a brilliant mon overall but specifically good vs balance. In this way, you have one single mon running on several offense-based teams for several different purposes. Another lesser appreciated Lunala set is defensive leftovers, which is more than viable on stall (with access to wisp + roost + shadow shield). Lunala is particularly difficult to switch into as it has one of the best special coverage in the meta. It is clear that this is one of the most versatile mons in the game right now, and pretty capable of being viable which each of its sets. It helps that Moongeist Beam is specifically good vs stall, as even with its weaker choice scarf set, Lunala is able to threaten several stall builds if rocks are up.
Some fun calcs
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lunala Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 246-289 (59.2 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lunala Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 297-351 (46.3 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lunala Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 384-452 (100.7 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
OR
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 240-283 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lunala Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Yveltal: 382-450 (97.2 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 216-255 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Z Move Lunala - I'm drawing special attention to this particular set as it is yet to be explored to its full potential in AG. Along with the ability to spam sleep, Z move Lunala gains a really important speed boost which often renders Hypnosis' inaccuracy a non-issue. At +1, Lunala outspeeds every relevant mon in the meta except Deo S, and hits extremely hard with moongeist + moonblast. If the 60% accuracy move does actually hit and Lunala gets a few good sleep turns, it's almost immediately GG as calm mind + speed boosted Lunala is borderline impossible to stop, not to mention that it can spam Hypnosis again as a last ditch effort. Why this is different from gimmicks like Hypnosis Mgar is because Lunala's speed boost coupled with its e speed resistance and CM access (not to mention its general ability to tank hits better than Mgar) make it much less about the Hypnosis accuracy and more about the boosts that it receives, coupled with the added X factor of sleep abuse. There is also an alternative of going for Fmiss over Mblast to better deal with Arceus (check specs calcs, as +1 lunala = specs), but that usually ends up making Lunala completely luck reliant and overly dependent on Hypnosis accuracy vs Yveltal.
Base Kyogre B- to
C/C-
This might seem like a sudden and harsh nom, but why is base kyogre ranked so high again? Never mind that it is completely irrelevant in the present meta; a meta infested by e speed priority and weather overlapping, never mind that it is set up fodder for Mega Rayquaza and Primal Groudon, never mind that it is actually ranked above Blissey, Chansey, Tapu Lele, Base Don, Jirachi, Grassceus, Zekrom, Kartana, Shuckle, Clefable, Mega Scizor, Mega Gyarados, Cloyster, Arceus-Electric/Flying, never mind that it has basically no usage or any potential usage on ladder or anywhere, the facts that it simply can't do anything special that another scarf user like Lunala/Xern can't already do, it has to rely on 30% accuracy moves to deal with its checks and usually becomes crippled immediately, is incredibly difficult to fit on a standard AG team without having specific support for it and still not managing to do anything special and it's just generally really bad should really have been reason enough for this rank not being justified for Base Ogre. I'm sure this has been nommed to drop in the past, but still surprised to see that this managed to be here all this while.
For the record I agree with both of the above noms, here are some of my own:
Mega Gengar A+ -> S
This has been brought up before but I'd like to open discussion on it again. In my eyes MGar is easily on par with Mega Rayquaza in the current meta for a multitude of reasons. Arceus spam is gaining traction at the moment so MGar is only getting better, it's higher speed tier and ESpeed immunity make it exceptional against such team. It's overall one of the best (if not the best) revenge killers in the tier thanks to Shadow Tag, enabling it to take out Arceus forms and Rayquaza after chip damage or drops. Stall also has a really hard time dealing with it, so much so that things like Psychic Chansey and Lugia are viable to deal with it. MGar may not have item versatility like Rayquaza but through changing its moveset it can drastically change the threats it traps. Sub + Disable, Reflect Type, Focus Blast and Taunt + Destiny Bond are all capable of trapping different threats with little to no counterplay depending on the circumstance. MGar has always been S in my eyes for its ability to perform so many roles in just one teamslot, and against almost any team to boot. My reasoning for wanting it to be placed alongside MRay is that the two are both versatile in many matchups and can work around their checks to some degree. MGar is certainly a cut above all of the other A+ ranked Pokemon and the rankings should be changed to reflect that.
Deoxys-Attack A- -> B+
Even though Deospam is still incredibly threatening, it's becoming harder to justify due to how unreliable it is. Deospam can be pressured incredibly easily with little more than a Scarfer and some decent hazard control. I think it was Megazard who said that every game with Deospam is a close game and that really fits its current position in the meta for me, even if it can be incredibly threatening a single misplay can spell doom. It's still a strong archetype but I think Deoxys fits much better with Mewtwo for now since the two fulfill similar roles with different drawbacks.
Arceus-Dragon B -> B-
Not really speaking from experience here but Dragonceus just seems really out of place in B. It's not as great as it was last gen because checking PDon is less of a worry than it was and Dragonceus is no longer a great Rayquaza check since Mixed variants destroy it and LO DD can muscle past it. If anyone has used this and wants to correct me feel free but right now it seems like it would fit better with Poisonceus and Alolan Muk as a fairly niche but usable check to certain mons.
Giratina-Origin B- -> C+
Kinda similar to the Dragonceus nom but this is speaking more from experience since I had to use it for round 2 of CLC. It's become incredibly hard to justify using this Pokemon since there are much better PDon checks (Giratina-O usually doesn't run Rest) and it's kind of a crappy EKiller check because Shadow Claw is on all of them. Really it just doesn't check much anymore and is hard to fit on teams, I could see this dropping farther than C+ but we'll see.
Excadrill B- -> B
Excadrill's quite frankly an amazing lead, Rapid Spin and Mold Breaker Stealth Rocks means you win the hazard game almost all the time. Not much more to say other than having guaranteed rocks vs stall is amazing and it outleads most other things. B makes sense to me because that would put it in the same rank as Deoxys-Speed, and the two are equally viable as leads in my eyes.
Chansey C+ -> B-
Chansey does way too much for stall to be just C+. It's the best special wall in the game and with Confide it can check things that would otherwise break stall such as Calm Mind + Refresh Darkceus or Calm Mind POgre. It's also a fantastic cleric and has enough flexibility in its moveslot that it can often be a rocks setter or run Psychic to avoid being trapped by MGar. Blissey could rise too but I care less about that because Blissey is much less bulky.
I support all these noms except Mgar, as I just don't see it being good enough for S
Nominating Volbeat for D rank
Access to prankster setup, in addition to encore makes it a nice stat passing mon on offensive teams. As seen in the replays below, it is a reliable strategy in AG. I feel it has increased in viability from last gen, as it gained access to infestation. In comparision, no other pokemon can perform the role that Volbeat does. There are two viable variations of the set:-
Volbeat @ Normalium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Infestation
OR the set carried over from last gen :-
Volbeat @ Normalium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Psych Up
The psych up variation of the set allows it to psych up Xerneas' boosts, with the spread letting it live a moon blast after rocks. However, the infestation variation lets you trap any setup bait, such as Shuckle. Normalium Z gives access to Z-encore, which lets you pass +1 speed along with your Tail Glow boosts.
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-577725502 VS Catalystic
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-578530596 VS Lotiasite
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-579846695 VS Purple Gatorade
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-582660425 VS Fardin
I support. No more boosts after D, though. Calls for a very specific type of build and is pretty gimmicky.
Big noms around high ranks:
Xerneas A- to A
I am nomming this yet again. You all seem to sleep on the powers of Xerneas in the tier, and how much it affects it and what not. There's 0 reliable switch ins to this thing, people are required at least 2 Xerneas checks on their team due to how scary its coverage is. Not even Rayquaza requires 2 checks, because every ekiller will scare it out. I think Xerneas is underexplored on the council's part of this spectrum. I don't think any of you ever use it, except Megazard with Specs sometimes. That's how kinda diminishing it is. I want you all to try various sets to rethink your previous decision before you straight up deny the nom again.
Yveltal A+ to A
I'd say Yveltal does a bit too little to be A+, It doesn't have much versatility as more often than not they're either Offensive or Life Orb. Other non-standard sets like Specs and Scarf share the same coverage, and are easier to switch in to, simply because it's coverage isn't the best. Dark Pulse sure is strong, but if every supportceus that hits more than 326 speed walls it. It kinda loses it's purpose. If there's 1 hard wall it can't touch, it kinda is useless the whole game because it can't really wallbreak much. Against offensive teams, it's too slow. It comes short 3 speed points for Adamant Ray and most Offense teams have a Calm Mind Arceus somewhere. It's Defensive set is useless agaisnt bulkier teams, but nice against offense, however as I stated earlier. With Calm Mind Arceus forms it isn't really doing much. It requires a lot of team support to get around these problems. While it is still a good pokémon I think A+ is a little too much for it.
I support Xern nom.
Alright, with the release of the new megas, I'd like to nom Mega Tyranitar for C+. Mega Tyranitar is great, especially when paired with support like gothitelle. At +1 and with rocks support, it can:-
OHKO ekillers at +1 (Low Kick), OHKO defensive yveltal(Stone Edge), 2HKOs giratina(Crunch), OHKO Mega Rayqyaza (Stone Edge), OHKO ghostceus, 56% chance to OHKO uninvested ferrothorn (Low Kick).
If you choose to run Ice Punch, in the same conditions (+1 and rocks) you have a 62.5% chance to OHKO max HP and Defense Zygarde 50%, and a guaranteed 2hko on max defense Zygarde Complete (if it is at 100% HP).
Fast support arceus formes like water and ground are 2hko'd, while Ttar can live a hit from them
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 250-296 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 174-206 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 249-294 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
4 SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 174-206 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Apart from this, Mega Tyranitar is also pretty bulky. It can live a +1 1k Arrows from Zygarde, or two uninvested arrows.
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 284-336 (83.2 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 138-164 (40.4 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It can also live and Earthquake from a Groundceus
252 Atk Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And a moonblast from xern
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 260-308 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And an Earthquake from LO Mray, or a waterfall from Banded ray, while banded EQ is still a roll
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 260-306 (76.2 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 281-333 (82.4 - 97.6%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 324-382 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
And a brick break + espeed+ SR damage from Ghostceus
252 Atk Arceus-Ghost Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 220-260 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Arceus-Ghost Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 29-34 (8.5 - 9.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
And a EQ + espeed + SR damage from LO ekiller
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 56-66 (16.4 - 19.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 190-224 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Alright, to sum it up, M-Ttar has some nice bulk, while being a good offensive presence in a team. It tends to shine vs offensive teams, and I think that it deserves C+ at the least.
Finally, I support this.