Aranea Talem

How would you rate this team on a scale from 1 to 10?

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  • Total voters
    15
Aranea Telam

“Spider Web”

Hello Smogon! This is an RMT made by Jsoldier and I that we hope you will enjoy and we appreciate any help that we can get! This team was inspired by the idea of using SpecsOgre, a total nuke in ubers, 2HKOing almost every pokemon in the game with its STAB rain-boosted 150 base power Water Spout backed by a base 150 SAtk. The first thing that came to mind while supporting SpecsOgre was sticky web, a hazard that makes your opponent 1.5 times slower than usual e ffectively giving Kyogre a scarf as well as specs meaning that it can take on even things that are usually counters to Kyogre, like Palkia, 2HKOing it with its specs-boosted Thunder while Palkia cannot hope to outspeed while it is stuck in the Sticky Web (unless its the based scarf set lel). Another reason Sticky Web is very good to use is that this meta is INCREDIBLY matchup based and many of the teams i’ve seen are very weak to sticky web, especially used in conjunction with SpecsOgre, mostly because they use a check to Kyogre that isn’t Palkia. Also, you can go with more power on your pokes because you don’t need to invest too much in speed.

The obvious first pokemon to use was Kyogre, it is very powerful with its specs set overpowering many of its checks, and with no lati@s plus sticky web makes Kyogre an overpowering force beating even its greatest checks.
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The second pokemon to use in this build was a pokemon to set up webs to help SpecsOgre. I have a choice between Smeargle and Shuckle. The former has a very useful spore so that it can take on slower leads very well and can still set up webs due to its infinite movepool, but is 6-0ed by taunt users that stop it from doing anything, yes, it can carry magic coat but that forces it to predict whether the opponent will attack or taunt. The latter is useful for its bulk and tanking hits mid-game and late-game, can encore to prevent from being set up on because it can encore first turn, then set up webs with first turn of encore, switch on the second one and go to something that can OHKO the opponent (usually Kyogre) then kill it on the third one, not that anyone competent would stay in on the third one. It also reliably gets up web because it carries mental herb so it isn’t vulnerable to first-turn taunt, it can also toxic arceus forms and rock tomb for momentum for the pokemon that comes in after Shuckle. Between these two I chose the latter mostly because it isn’t vulnerable to taunt and because it can be useful throughout the match setting up webs multiple times
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The next thing that comes to mind is a stealth rock setter. I need an alternate stealth rock setter away from shuckle because it cannot reliably set up Stealth Rocks AND webs up reliably through the match. Now two things come to mind: Mega-Tyranitar, and Dialga. The former can set up rocks, taunt, and check two of the biggest threats to web teams as they fly above the sticky webs: Ho-oh and Yveltal. Also, with max speed and a positive nature, with webs up, it can outspeed base 130s and under including but not limited to: Darkrai, regular Mewtwo, Mega-Gengar, and Mega-Mewtwo-X. It is also incredibly powerful with its base 164 attack stat, which is better than most things, even Blaziken. Here are some relevant calcs for those not familiar with offensive TTar:
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 166-196 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 338-402 (95.7 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 213-252 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 374-444 (142.7 - 169.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 408-480 (103.8 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 852-1008 (204.8 - 242.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ohko even while burned)
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 166-196 (37.4 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
All of this is very attractive, but it comes with a major opportunity cost in the fact that i cannot use another mega. The latter is an incredibly powerful special attacker that can nuke support arceus forms and has very good coverage in fire blast/draco/flash cannon and with a life orb it can hit way harder than TTar. Also this can check opposing kyogre sort of, as well as having a great steel typing making it do well vs fairies. It also doesn’t take up a mega slot so it saves room for me to use something later like a Mega-Gengar.
I chose the latter because of that major opportunity cost of not being able to use a mega and being able to pressure defog support arceus forms much better. It is also able to check ho-oh in the rain that Kyogre provides (sorta). As well as destroying defensive cores with its major offensive capabilities combined with its awesome coverage (only resisted by heatran).
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Now all I am thinking about is offensive pressure, it is needed to keep the webs up throughout the match. Another way to do this is through use of taunt, it prevents the use of defog and breaks stall very efficiently.
Two stallbreakers come to mind: Mewtwo and Yveltal.
Mewtwo has incredible coverage and a Psystrike that 2HKOs anything that doesn't resist it but a typing that isn’t useful defensively at all and can’t really switch in on anything.
Yveltal is incredible with sticky web support because its taunt is as fast as ever and it has a sucker punch that can revenge most things. It too has incredible coverage with dark and flying STABs but certainly not as good as Mewtwo. It also has good longevity with Oblivion Wing that can do good damage and give Yveltal 75% of the damage it dealt back to itself. It also has a useful typing defensively being able to counter ghost arceus and being able to switch into earthquakes which Dialga hates. I chose Yveltal for this role mostly because of its powerful priority in sucker punch, better longevity, and better typing.
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Now since all I had so far was special attackers, I wanted a physical attacker that can set up and pressure defog users. Groundceus was a really good choice here because it is an absolute nuke offensively because of its base 100 power STAB option and it can also use recover because of its amazing coverage with EdgeQuake. It is also great with webs because it doesn’t use any form of priority like Ekiller does and it can absorb T-Waves and effectively counter Zekrom, a huge threat to our SpecsOgre.
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Now all this only leaves one slot, and guess what? We’ve reserved our Mega slot! Now there are some really good mega-mons to use on Web teams. There is medicham, gengar, and lucario. Gengar can eliminate things that make the matchup bad for me which is the basis which the team is built on. Also, with webs, gengar is able to run a modest nature which makes it REALLY powerful. It also has its own taunt to make sure there will be no defog while its in, destiny bond of course, and it is able to be an emergency Ekiller check and can take out many things that our other pokemon hate dealing with such as Yveltal. The other two are really powerful fighting types that can really blow holes through teams. I chose gengar because it can take out whatever i want AND it can use its taunt which is very useful.

The Team at a Glance:
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The Team in Depth:

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Kyogre @
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Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Thunder: Hits Palker very hard as well as hitting water types that wall the rest of this set.
Water Spout: The most damage dealing unboosted move in the game. With this move, at full health, this OHKOs ANYTHING that doesn't resist it and basically destroys defensive cores
Ice Beam: Hits grass types, the only time I ever really use it is when Palker is switching in and there is still a ground type alive on our opponents team so therefore I can’t use thunder.
Surf: This is just a backup for when our health is too low and I can’t use water spout because it’s not powerful enough. (when i get >65% health)

Why This Pokemon??
Kyogre is one scary motherfucker. With its speed provided by sticky web, amazing wall breaking powers with choice specs, the coveted water spout, rain boost, and coverage that is only used for Palkia, Kyogre is a nuke ready to go off. Every time this guy comes in safely, he gets a kill unless Palkia because of the loss of soul dew. Modest Nature is used to hit especially hard while the webs make me fast enough. Not much else to say about this unstoppable nuke that hasn't already been said.

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Shuckle @
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Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk- This makes Shuckle a counter to SwagPlay
Encore- This is mostly to prevent Shuckle from being setup fodder because I can encore on the first turn of them setting up, then web of the the first turn of encore, switch on the second, and kill them on the third.
Sticky Web- This is what the entire team is built around, it is the best hazard in the game where, every time a pokemon comes into it not floating above the ground, they get stuck in shuckle’s sticky residue, making them 1.5 times slower, effectively giving our pokemon scarfs.
Toxic- TOXIC ON EVERYTHING… In all seriousness, toxic is a great move to have here. It can put defog arceus forms on the timer as I keep webbing as the defog, can check CM arceus forms, and can just be annoying given the chance
Rock Tomb- This move is here for Shuckle to be able to gain momentum for the next pokemon to switch in because, after all, this team is built around having the opponent at -1 speed.

Why This Pokemon??
DONT FUCKLE WITH THE SHUCKLE... The cornerstone of our team. This Shuckle dives headfirst to the foray, providing support to hamper the eneour team. Webs, toxic, and encore, provide a trinity of annoying moves not so easily countered, especially with mental herb, making it so it gets cured of taunt the first time it is used. In this pantheon of pokemon, Shuckle stands proudly at the lead, heading into battle with insane defensive stats but is hampered by its horrible HP stat. This shuckle is also god damned crazy, occasionally using an offensive move to slow down pokemon even more, giving anyone not prepared an ol one two punch that will surely benefit the team. Shuckle also uses encore so that nothing can set up on the mighty shuck. As said before, DONT FUCKLE WITH THE SHUCKLE.
Praise Shuckle.

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Dialga @
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Ability: Pressure
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Roar- This move is good for letting Dialga not be setup fodder while its at-2 for GeoXerns. Also good for BP teams which can be a big threat actually.
Draco Meteor- Here it is. This strips off like 80% of a Max HP Arceus form’s health, absolutely nuking anything that doesn’t resist it. It hits almost everything for neutral damage bar steels and fairies which is what the above and below moves are for, which is one of the greatest appeals of dragons.
Fire Blast- Roasts the steels that wall Dialga's Draco Meteor, not much else to say about this move...
Stealth Rock- The main reason I used Dialga was because of this. It can set up stealth rocks and beat all the common defoggers (besides arceus water i guess). It is a move necessary to have on every team and there is no exception here. The reason this isn’t on Shuckle is because it already needs to reliably set up webs throughout the match, and it doesn’t need rocks on its back as well.

Why this Pokemon??
The Pokemon of time is back baby! This Pokemon was used mostly because it can pressure defog users, has good bulk, amazing special attack, and it could set stealth rocks. Now the reason stealth rock is needed on something else besides Shuckle is because it cannot reliably set stealth rocks and sticky web throughout the match. Draco Meteor hits like an absolute truck with LO stripping off ~80% of support arceus forms, OHKOing many other things. Fire Blast rips through steel types otherwise resistant by the meteor and hits fairies for neutral damage which is still decent for Dialga. Stealth Rock is a move that is necessary, especially in the ubers meta, with ho-oh flying around and turning many 2HKOs int OHKOs.
The EVs are different than normal, 196 speed EVs are needed to outspeed base 130s, the rest is fairly normal for LO dialga, max special attack, modest, rest in HP.

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Yveltal @
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Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 72 Atk / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Mild Nature

Sucker Punch- This is a very useful physical priority that sees most of its use while killing ho-oh or Kyogre or revenge killing really weakened GeoXern
Taunt- This is a very useful move to have on webs teams because I can taunt defoggers so they cannot defog away our webs which could be detrimental to our momentum while in the middle of the match.
Dark Pulse- This bad boy hits for sooo much damage. It is backed by dark aura and life orb both of which boost its damage by 1.3 giving it an effective 1.69 boost. All of this is backed by a 131 attack stat and a Mild nature making this 2HKO anything that doesn’t resist it.
Oblivion Wing- This move sadly doesn’t get any boost from an ability, but it still gets a boost from LO making it still hit very hard with a positive special attack nature. The main appeal of this move though is that it lets Yveltal gain 75% of the damage it dealt

Why this Pokemon??
Yveltal is a force to be reckoned with in the ubers meta. On our team it finds its place as a stallbreaker. With taunt it can make sure Xerneas doesn’t set up in its face as well as making sure that support arceus forms cannot defog which can be detrimental if it happens. Also as a stall breaker it does better than mewtwo IMO because it has better longevity and its dark pulse hits many stally pokemon very hard like Giratina and Lugia and hits many pokemon very hard in general. Oblivion Wing, its signature move, gives it amazing longevity so it can last throughout the match. Also its flying typing gives it more switchin opportunities than Mewtwo which can’t really switch in on much. Yveltal also holds the only priority on the team and it is no slouch with its LO dark aura boosted sucker punch.
The EV spread is once again weird but it makes sense. 184 speed to outspeed base 90 scarfers. 252 special attack to hit as hard as possible with dark pulse and oblivion wing, and the rest in attack to hit hard with sucker punch. I chose mild over rash because most of the things Yveltal resists are special.

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Arceus-Ground @
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Ability: Multitype
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature
Earthquake- This move is an absolute nuke at +2. With a base 120 atk, STAB, Earth plate, and an Adamant nature. Also with webs up, I dont need to worry about out speeding things so I can run bulk on this.
Stone Edge- This is here to hit everything that EQ cannot, giving Arceus-Ground almost perfect coverage
Recover- Since our two moves have perfect coverage, I have room for recover on this setup sweeper which especially helps while checking Zekrom.
Swords Dance- This boosts arceus’ attack to frightening levels letting it be able to sweep through entire teams with just one of these. Almost OHKOing anything that doesn’t resist it.


Why This Pokemon??

The God pokemon definitely lives up to its name, as it can use it’s god-like stats to rip through teams not prepared for such a powerful threat. Using great coverage moves in its earthquake and its stone edge, anything not ready for its wrath will cower in fear before it with its overwhelming force at +2 . Arceus is a god, and the Earth plate makes it even more of one. With already having almost perfect coverage with EQ and SE, Arceus-ground has room for recover which makes this even harder to take down than usual with its 120/120/120 bulk. Another cool thing about this arceus form is that it resists stealth rock, letting it switch in again and again not fearing too much residual damage. It is also able to effectively counter Zekrom, which is a big threat to specs kyogre and resist T-Wave spam which can be annoying without a ground type. Also, an adamant nature was able to be used while using enough EVs to outspeed MMY after webs.

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Gengar (M) @
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Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Destiny Bond- This is the main appeal of using Mega-Gengar, it is able to trap and eliminate anything I want it to, especially with Gengar’s frailness, speed, and Taunt making the opponent attack me and Destiny bond as I die to make the matchup that much better for me
Taunt- Very useful for making the opponent attack and kill me while I destiny bond. Also very useful to keep support arceus forms and such from defogging on me.
Sludge Wave- This is mainly here as our main STAB and it can OHKO Xerneas which is very appealing. It can also eliminate the dangerous Arceus-Grass :P
Focus Blast- This is our coverage move of choice mainly because it severely dents E-Killer because with webs, Gengar can easily revenge E-Killer because it outspeeds, does ~80% with focus blast, and is immune to Extreme Speed.

Why This Pokemon??
M-Gar is one of the the most effective pokemon in the ubers-meta, this is mostly because it can eliminate any pokemon that makes the matchup bad for you, which is important because this meta is very matchup based. This is also a major threat to stall teams as they rely on defensive synergy to do well and without one of their members, entire stall teams can fall apart. This also has great utility on a web team with its taunt that can make it so the opponent has even less of a chance to defog. It can also serve as a spinblocker :3. With its good move-pool, great ability, and decent coverage, M-Gar is an offensive force not to be trifled with. Also, since this is a webs team and gengar is already fast enough, a modest nature was able to be used.



Threat List:

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Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 108 HP / 28 Def / 120 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Focus Blast

This can 6-0 me if it finds a chance to set up. Our only form of priority is one that Xerneas is resistant to so if it finds a chance to set up, our whole team is obliterated. Although, I tried to build this team so that Geomancy Xerneas wouldn’t have many opportunities to set up, only three things it can set up on are: Our yveltal if it is taunted, our Groundceus if it is not already set up, or our Kyogre locked into Thunder or Ice beam.

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Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
- Mild Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing

This is another huge threat to the team, I have no quick way of killing it outside of Kyogre and Groundceus both of which take big damage from it, other than that everything else is one or 2HKOed by this set. Our best bet vs. it usually is to Gengar it.

Darkrai can also be annoying because it can anti-lead shuckle with void therefore making me very vulnerable to other things that are basically countered via sticky web. If this happens, then just switch out on the void and try to find a different opportunity to come in

CM Arceus forms in general can be annoying, but Gengar can Destiny bond them, Kyogre can 2HKO them, and Shuckle can toxic them. Other set up sweepers are generally revenged by Kyogre.

Another passive threat to this team is defog users, if one finds a chance to defog, it can be very bad for me because the whole basis of this team is build around sticky web being up, and it completely kills whatever momentum i have, although, I did build it so that things wouldn’t have a chance to defog so I can keep our momentum going.

Shoutouts:
First and foremost to Jsoldier who helped with the RMT and helped extensively through the teambuilding process



To all the people who read through the whole RMT, not just skipping to the good parts.

S-Matrix, who helped a lot at first while building the team

To PHP who told us the basis around sticky web offense and told me to use roar on Dialga

To all the other friends on showdown


Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Surf
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
- Rock Tomb
Dialga @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 72 Atk / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
Mild Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
- Swords Dance
Gengar (M) @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast


P.S.- Sorry if things started to sound repetitive, was sorta running out of material in some areas
 
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Hey iampie,
Nice team. I'm pretty certain that it's HO, which in my opinion is an easy style to make but a much harder style to make well. I myself have used Shuckle + SpecsOgre before and it is extremely powerful.

One of the main issues with HO teams with leads like Shuckle is that it's pretty easy for the opponent to gain early game momentum against it. Mainly, since I have been playing recently with a Sticky Web team, I find that Darkrai is Shuckle's worst enemy. Since the team is so web reliant as a whole, it sucks that you basically will have to fodder something to sleep vs. any opposing Darkrai. This is not ideal, since it puts you down one mon vs the opposing team, plus Shuckle will die pretty quick since you generally need to either encore setup or sack it to get a safe switch in. Some sort of sleep absorption would be really helpful on a team like this.

I'd really be worried if Gengar was my best answer to Yveltal. Pretty much, it's a suicide mission to get a Dbond, but if it taunts... I'd have a better answer to this guy.

About answering Xerneas, you'll have to be really careful about how you pressure this thing. Personally, adding more priority would really help with this.


Also, what is your answer to opposing HO leads (such as Deo-S)? Kyogre doesn't really like Hazards so I'd have a surefire way to limit opposing hazards.

Seems like a pretty solid team though.

A few ideas/suggestions/optimization:

U-turn > Taunt on LO Yveltal. Sure taunt has its value, but considering that you are outsped by the most common defogger, support Arceus, U-turn might be nice since it gives Gengar free switches. Particularly, Gengar gets to remove defensive Fairies that switch into Yveltal, and also GeoXerneas who could possibly get a free Geomancy on Yveltal if it runs enough speed EVs (the optimal set doesn't, but statistically speaking 252+ speed is the most common, granted you have a web though).

Less speed EVs on Yveltal. Um... I'm not sure you calced right. Running 0 EVs, base 90s get 216*1.5 with scarf =324. 184 EVs on Yveltal hits 280. Maybe I did that wrong, but even if I did, Scarfers tend to not run no speed investment.

Less speed EVs on Dialga. Same reason as Yveltal, but applied to base 130s

LOL didn't factor in web. I was confused there for a sec.



Anyways, nice team. Good luck!
 
jsoldier said:
Wouldn't taunt be more effective overall? It can shutdown threats such as Lugia and Blissey which, while testing the team, were my worst nightmare.

Taunts fine, Uturn was just a suggestion.

Minority Suspect said:
No priority + no physical wall = Rayquaza and a ton of other shit 6-0s. Also not even something to stop Outrage spam when just a +1 Outrage OHKOs any member on your team? Before you say that Shuckle or Yveltal is going to stop it, I'll show you that nothing on your team can:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre: 302-355 (88.5 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Shuckle: 295-348 (120.9 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Outrage vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 398-469 (111.7 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 321-378 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Outrage vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 398-469 (101.7 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 374-442 (143.2 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Did I mention that Ray is web immune too? You're going to have to get either a damn good physical wall, or something that can get a burn on Ray and other physical threats quickly and efficiently. Also no Xern check either? Or Kyogre for that matter? You'll literally have to rebuild from the ground up.

Remember that HO plays differently than Balance or bulky offense or stall. You can actually ignore some threats as long as there is enough pressure to stop setup.
 
minority suspect, rayquaza shouldn't be able to set up on anything given everything either has an OHKO move, taunt, priority and a move that does ~80% to it, or encore. Xern cant set up on anything either, kyogre can be dealt with by use of my own kyogre and dialga. Besides, this is an offensive team, not balance or stall so I don't need solid defensive checks to every threat in the meta, I simply prevent them from setting up. Kypgre is a bit more of a threat tho because its very threatening without having to set up but thankfully it does get stuck in the webs meaning that arc ground outspeeds, gengar can dbond, yveltal can sucker punch, the other two resist water spout and hit it very hard. Shuckle is, well, destroyed
See: Replay #1 for Rayquaza and #3 for Kyogre

taunt is very needed because of things with defog that can really hamper sticky web teams
.
deo s leads and darkrai leads can be annoying, but I just have to see what the least important member of the team is for darkrai, and just set up webs then encore on deo speed leads.
 
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yes, rayquaza the frailest uber ever, can set up on specs kyogre, good luck with that. and btw, groundceus doesn't kill something if its not boosted if Xern is on the other team for that exact reason, it boosts first if xern is there so it can OHKO. yveltal doesn't mind getting killed by xerneas because gengar can just come in and rape xerneas after that. gengar can take out ekiller, ray cant set up (btw yveltal also has taunt to stop it from setting up), and I hope you know that HO isn't about reacting to the opponent, its about forcing them to react to you.
 
yes, rayquaza the frailest uber ever, can set up on specs kyogre, good luck with that.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza: 243-287 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Derp. Also, don't say it can't set up on an Ice Beam, that's obv. The ability to take a Specs Water Spout doesn't necessarily shout "the frailest uber ever". Also Skymin and Darkrai are frailer than Ray.

Rayquaza defense complete!
 
yes, rayquaza the frailest uber ever, can set up on specs kyogre, good luck with that. and btw, groundceus doesn't kill something if its not boosted if Xern is on the other team for that exact reason, it boosts first if xern is there so it can OHKO. yveltal doesn't mind getting killed by xerneas because gengar can just come in and rape xerneas after that. gengar can take out ekiller, ray cant set up (btw yveltal also has taunt to stop it from setting up), and I hope you know that HO isn't about reacting to the opponent, its about forcing them to react to you.

Assuming Kyogre has taken Stealth Rock damage:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza: 211-249 (60.1 - 70.9%)

It won't get more than one kill because of Yveltal RKing DDRay and Gengar RKing SDRay, but it can potentially setup on a weakened Kyogre and cause issues. MixRay is also a jerk because it can just sling Meteors around and hurt/kill anything it wants.

Anyways yeah this team has some Xerneas issues, you basically can't click Ice Beam or Thunder on Kyogre ever since Xerneas can Geomancy on that. This is kind of a problem because nothing on your team can really switch into Palkia, who can otherwise come in on Kyogre's Water Spout/Surf and kill something basically every time. You can circumvent this weakness with good play but you will have to tread very carefully.

Much more worrisome are these guys:

1) Darkrai - You have nothing for this. It can stop Sticky Web turn 1 by leading against Shuckle and it completely turns the momentum against you, which given the HO nature of this team you can't really come back from. NP LO sets can potentially sweep your team, or at the very least will cripple half of it by Voiding something, NPing and Pulsing Shuckle to death, and then nuking a third before going down. Yveltal can check it but +2 Sludge Bomb will inflict a ton of damage and Thunder variants will just own it.

2) Yveltal - Most of your Pokemon can take 1 hit and damage/kill it but you can't switch anything in. It's also immune to Web so if the enemy saves it until late-game it can sweep. Arceus-Ground or Gengar's Destiny Bond is your only real way of stopping it.

3) Mega Blaziken with Protect - Your opp. can just set up a bunch of hazards vs Shuckle and then this thing comes in and ruins you late-game.

4) Giratina-O - Switches in on Arceus-Ground, clicks Defog, and then you're up the creek without a paddle.

I have a couple of suggestions:

Replace Arceus-Ground with Adamant LO Extremekiller - This gives you a way to beat Darkrai and Mega Blaziken without losing several Pokemon in the process. It likes having Web because it can run an Adamant nature without worrying about things like Mega Lucario, Terrakion, or evolved Mega Gengar checking it anymore. You can also run Shadow Force on it - Giratina-O won't enjoy taking a +2 LO 120 BP Ghost move to the face if it tries to Defog. EKiller is also a reasonably decent check against Prankster TWave because it relies on a priority move to sweep, plus a paralyzed EKiller can't be Toxiced or Burned. So this is a decent fix to 3/4 of your weaknesses, plus it gives you an out against Xerneas if it does manage to set up. Run at least enough Speed on it to beat Rayquaza (56 EVs). Use SD/ESpeed/SForce/whatever you want in slot 4 (Overheat is nice for Defog Skarm/Mega Scizor).

You don't really need a hard Zekrom check on this team given that you have Web support to help troll Scarf Zekrom, plus you have a Dialga to check Electric mons and strong priority if it gets out of hand. Your lack of Fairy or Steel also means that Zekrom can hurt anything on your team really badly anyway just by clicking Outrage.

Change Gengar's nature to Timid - This is mainly so you can outrun +Speed nature Yveltal before Mega Evolving if it comes to that, otherwise you won't get the DBond off which can be important. Timid MGar also outruns a boosted GeoXern if Sticky Web is up so you have another check to it.

Change Yveltal's nature to Hasty and run Max Speed - I don't normally like running +Speed Yveltal, but when it comes to a Yvel vs Yvel manfight the faster one will usually win, and being able to engage in such manfights could be vital to not getting swept. It can at least weaken it to the point where EKiller can revenge it.

Good luck!
 
I dont know if someone has mentioned this but if you're having that much trouble with Xerneas then tryout a bulky pivot scizor
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Defog

I have no idea what it should replace on your team but im positive it can be benefitial.
EDIT: I just realized you might not want to run defog on scizor.
 
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I dont know if someone has mentioned this but if you're having that much trouble with Xerneas then tryout a bulky pivot scizor
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Defog

I have no idea what it should replace on your team but im positive it can be benefitial.
EDIT: I just realized you might not want to run defog on scizor.
Thanks for giving the time to try and help, but given the offensive nature of this team, and things being able to set up on scizor, I don't think this would be a good choice. Its not such a big deal because xern cant set up very easily on anything as dialga can roar it, yveltal can taunt it, gengar can kill it, arceus ground kills it at plus two which isn't a problem because I would never rist a Xerneas coming in on my arceus ground if its not already set up, and Kyogre can kill it with water spout, and put it into sucker range with surf, the only thing that it can really set up on is Kyogre locked into ice beam or thunder, which can be a problem, but that's a very small issue and there is no need to run a hard counter for that.

Assuming Kyogre has taken Stealth Rock damage:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza: 211-249 (60.1 - 70.9%)

It won't get more than one kill because of Yveltal RKing DDRay and Gengar RKing SDRay, but it can potentially setup on a weakened Kyogre and cause issues. MixRay is also a jerk because it can just sling Meteors around and hurt/kill anything it wants.

Anyways yeah this team has some Xerneas issues, you basically can't click Ice Beam or Thunder on Kyogre ever since Xerneas can Geomancy on that. This is kind of a problem because nothing on your team can really switch into Palkia, who can otherwise come in on Kyogre's Water Spout/Surf and kill something basically every time. You can circumvent this weakness with good play but you will have to tread very carefully.

Much more worrisome are these guys:

1) Darkrai - You have nothing for this. It can stop Sticky Web turn 1 by leading against Shuckle and it completely turns the momentum against you, which given the HO nature of this team you can't really come back from. NP LO sets can potentially sweep your team, or at the very least will cripple half of it by Voiding something, NPing and Pulsing Shuckle to death, and then nuking a third before going down. Yveltal can check it but +2 Sludge Bomb will inflict a ton of damage and Thunder variants will just own it.

2) Yveltal - Most of your Pokemon can take 1 hit and damage/kill it but you can't switch anything in. It's also immune to Web so if the enemy saves it until late-game it can sweep. Arceus-Ground or Gengar's Destiny Bond is your only real way of stopping it.

3) Mega Blaziken with Protect - Your opp. can just set up a bunch of hazards vs Shuckle and then this thing comes in and ruins you late-game.

4) Giratina-O - Switches in on Arceus-Ground, clicks Defog, and then you're up the creek without a paddle.

I have a couple of suggestions:

Replace Arceus-Ground with Adamant LO Extremekiller - This gives you a way to beat Darkrai and Mega Blaziken without losing several Pokemon in the process. It likes having Web because it can run an Adamant nature without worrying about things like Mega Lucario, Terrakion, or evolved Mega Gengar checking it anymore. You can also run Shadow Force on it - Giratina-O won't enjoy taking a +2 LO 120 BP Ghost move to the face if it tries to Defog. EKiller is also a reasonably decent check against Prankster TWave because it relies on a priority move to sweep, plus a paralyzed EKiller can't be Toxiced or Burned. So this is a decent fix to 3/4 of your weaknesses, plus it gives you an out against Xerneas if it does manage to set up. Run at least enough Speed on it to beat Rayquaza (56 EVs). Use SD/ESpeed/SForce/whatever you want in slot 4 (Overheat is nice for Defog Skarm/Mega Scizor).

You don't really need a hard Zekrom check on this team given that you have Web support to help troll Scarf Zekrom, plus you have a Dialga to check Electric mons and strong priority if it gets out of hand. Your lack of Fairy or Steel also means that Zekrom can hurt anything on your team really badly anyway just by clicking Outrage.

Change Gengar's nature to Timid - This is mainly so you can outrun +Speed nature Yveltal before Mega Evolving if it comes to that, otherwise you won't get the DBond off which can be important. Timid MGar also outruns a boosted GeoXern if Sticky Web is up so you have another check to it.

Change Yveltal's nature to Hasty and run Max Speed - I don't normally like running +Speed Yveltal, but when it comes to a Yvel vs Yvel manfight the faster one will usually win, and being able to engage in such manfights could be vital to not getting swept. It can at least weaken it to the point where EKiller can revenge it.

Good luck!

Thanks for the extensive rate Fireburn! I know you have some really good experience with sticky web.

You are definetly right about all those threats and I think ekiller could be really good on the team and will defninetly try it out!

Changing gengars nature to timid is no problem as that is a really good point about yveltal before gar evolves, it was mostly a privilege from using webs, but now I see I don't have that privilege.

I am a bit iffy about Yveltal. The attack evs have helped in many situations like when facing kyogre, sucker punch does ~70% to it I think and that is really nice for the rest of the team mostly because I am not using Palkia. Also the mild nature lets me hit extremely hard which is always nice and I don't think the niche of a Yveltal vs Yveltal manfight would be enough to justify all that investment, anyways, with a plus nature in sp attack, oblivion wing puts -def yveltal into LO adamant extremespeed range does it not?

Also isn't dialga a decent check to Palkia because it can easily live any attack and kill it with draco while outspeeding?
 
oblivion wing puts -def yveltal into LO adamant extremespeed range does it not?

If the enemy Yveltal is faster it can just OWing you and get most of its health back, which is the problem here. Yveltal is threatening enough to your team to where +Speed would be justified.

Also isn't dialga a decent check to Palkia because it can easily live any attack and kill it with draco while outspeeding?

Dialga is 2HKOed by Spacial Rend so it can only switch in once. Given that nothing on your team resists Dragon attacks, Palkia will probably just click Spacial Rend when it comes in. Having more leeway to use Thunder/Ice Beam with Kyogre is important in this instance to help limit the amount of damage Palkia can do to your team.

Palkia is also a common lead vs Shuckle from my experience since it 2HKOes it with Hydro Pump. This would be another instance where Timid Gengar comes in handy, so you can outspeed and DBond it and then start wrecking everything with SpecsOgre.
 
Hey guys, the team has really been fleshed out since last I saw it. There are so many suggestions floating around right now, and I can't rate for shit, but I personally can't see how this team deals with opposing web teams (I liked the early version with Exca Spin + Tyra better and Exca alleviated the Xern weakness .cry). Other than that, team has solidified nicely :)
 
Ill try the plus speed nature, but I really like the wallbreaking power with the other EVs, also I can sucker punch the other yveltal, which has recently helped be win a manfight
 
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