ASB Substitutions - Chance Clause

[ZhengTann]

This thread is moderated to keep discussion on track.​

Refer to pages 9 to 10 in Feedback thread for background. Currently Chance Clause checks at the exact priority the Pokemon moves (so if it was ordered to use Aqua Jet, it checks at +1 priority, but at -5 priority if Counter is ordered instead). A phrase "AT THE START OF THE ACTION" can be used to overwrite this default and allow the Substitution to be checked before any mon makes a move that action instead. I'm sure there are plenty of other phrases, limited only by creativity, that battlers can think of.

Right now, the questions are:

• Are these information placed in a commonly known thread, where anyone can be referred off the top of the head?
• Do we need to change the default, to make it easier for new players or players in general?
• What other potential loopholes may be caused or have not been addressed regarding Chance Clauses or even Substitutions in general that you'd like to bring up?

I'll try to track discussion and do hyperlinks in the OP. Fire away ^_^

 

[acidphoenix]

1. no they just, well, aren't. precedent is basically the only thing that governs any sort of chance clause
2. the above needs to not be true. i have no useful commentary on how chance clauses actually work because i literally don't know how they work; the only way to know how they work is to be active and know currently accepted interpretations, or ask people who do
3. the problem isn't loopholes, the problem is that, in a game with competitive tournaments that are mostly rule based, i shouldn't have to check precedent or use guesswork to determine what substitutions are legal, i should be able to read the rules

 

[JJayyFeather]

1) I agree wholeheartedly with everything stated above.

For how much time we've spent arguing up and down the walls about subs, chance clauses still have 0 documentation attached to them, and as such don't have a definition or any written rules about them besides the precedent that has been passed along.

2) No need to change the default because there will always be cases that lie outside of the default. The important thing is just to get it documented where default lies.

 

[ZhengTann]

Okay, given the scant discussion here, 48 more hours before moving to Voting.

EDIT: Okay it took way too more than that. Slate is as follows.

What should the default time to check Chance Clauses be?
A) At the priority of the Pokemon's originally ordered move
B) At the very start of the action, before any Pokemon moves