ORAS Ubers Balance Groundceus, Scarfed Xernes, Lugia +

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This is essentially my second Ubers team, after being on Ubers for a while I'm at 1449, #86 on the ladder right now, but I'm usually around 1500s. It's been working excellently for me so far, but there are a few holes I'm worried about and curious to see what others think of it. As a whole, I've found Arceus-Ground, Xerneas, and Lugia to be incredibly effective on this team, with Scizor providing solid backup, but Dialga and Latios are both iffy and I'm open to changes.

ARCEUS-GROUND
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piss off groudon (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Defog

Groundceus is the undisputed leader of this team, being probably my overall most effective pokemon as well as my usual lead.
Arceus-Ground is an exemplary anti-lead to Groudon. I immediately swords dance, OHKO the groudon if it doesn't switch out (and defog the stealth rock if it sets it), and +2 Groundceus can be very powerful with EdgeQuake: people often switch to Primal Kyogre, which is generally OHKOd by +2 Earthquake, M-Salamence, which is OHKOd even after attack drop to 1.5 by Stone Edge, or Lugia, which is wrecked by +2 stone edge (~80% damage with Multiscale intact).
However, he struggles at dealing with suicide leads such as Greninja or Deoxys forms because of taunt, but he's still my best anti-lead to such suicide leads. He'll kill them in 1-2 earthquakes, but afterwards they can switch into something Groundceus cannot take, such as Giratina or Latias, forcing him out without the hazards having been removed.
I wish I could run Recover, Stealth Rock, Will-o-wisp, or Extreme Speed(to deal with the suicide leads) but Defog is essentially required on the set because of Lugia (I've found the other potential defoggers on my team to be less effective, usually because of iffy bulk/speed). If there were any more reliable defoggers to use though, I'd be willing to change this (if it's really worth the sacrifice).

MEGA SCIZOR
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bug twat (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Atk / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Superpower
- Toxic

Scizor is really only used for his few very specific niches: he checks and eliminates Xerneas, Diancie, Lugia, and the occasional Ferrothorn, as well as providing useful priority and coverage with Superpower, one of just two fighting type moves I have on my team.
Roost and Toxic are needed to get rid of Lugia, and Scizor is my most reliable Lugia check.
I've not found Pursuit necessary, and originally used U-Turn instead of Superpower but found Scizor to be too slow to effectively use U-Turn, so opted for Superpower.
Outside of his niche Scizor is rarely useful, besides occasional bullet punch revenge killing, so if something could do Scizor's job without wasting a mega slot, I'm open to suggestions: he seems to be necessary for my team though.

LUGIA
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stall hell (Lugia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Ice Beam

Standard Lugia set, probably nets more sweeps than anything else on my team when people aren't prepared for him (many aren't). Great check to Xerneas or M-Salamence with whirlwind, Toxic/Roost for effectively stalling a majority of the metagame, and ice beam as the preferred attack for occasionally helpful use against Salamence, Rayquaza, or maybe a yveltal or something (Ice Beam obviously isn't used too often).

XERNEAS
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god moose (Xerneas) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Sleep Talk
-

Probably the best counter to Darkrai, which could otherwise destroy a team, scarfed Xerneas is surprisingly very effective.
Only 2 moves with Sleep Talk to make it more reliable against Darkrai, giving it an 85% chance to OHKO Darkrai after Dark Void, and 100% chance (with Moonblast) if the Dark Void misses. Almost no one expects choice scarf, so they nearly never switch Darkrai out.
Even without Darkrai, Xerneas is an excellent revenge killer with just mono Moonblast, especially since it takes everyone by surprise by basically always attacking first and not using a turn to set up.
DIALGA
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not on my WATCH (Dialga) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Stealth Rock

Dialga is somewhat of a mediocre pokemon, doing nothing exceptionally, but provides a wide variety of useful things.
Although I almost never get to lead with him because of having to use Groundceus, Dialga provides useful Stealth Rock support which really devastates the various flying types, namely Ho-Oh and Lugia. If Scizor is gone, I really need the stealth rock support to bring down Lugia: otherwise I have to sacrafice my own Lugia to to do so (with toxic vs toxic).
Draco Meteor will severely dent anything, Fire Blast provides needed coverage for the likes of Genesect, Scizor, and Ferrothorn or Forretress, and Flash Cannon is a very powerful attack that doesn't drop his SpA, while being especially useful against Xerneas, Diancie, or Tyranitar (although Scizor usually covers those).
Shuca Berry is generally the standard for Dialga, so it isn't forced to switch against common threats like Groudon or Groundceus, but I used Life Orb because he isn't a great offensive presence without it: I'm really not sure which would be a better option, I've never tried Shuca Berry and I'll test it out later if I keep Dialga.
I'm completely up to replacing Dialga if something else can provide more useful/powerful coverage as well as Stealth Rock (or if I could somehow fit Stealth Rock on Groundceus, then just a better replacement that also covers Genesect).
LATIOS
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psydragon twat (Latios) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Since I don't need him for defogging, Latios becomes a pretty powerful special attacker.
Draco Meteor is a nuke, with Psyshock a less powerful attack that doesn't require the stat drop (and being generally more useful than Psychic).
Thunder is needed to make Latios a good check to Kyogre, as I don't have many reliable answers to Kyogre. Although an ice beam is dangerous, Latios has great special bulk and resists Origin Pulse, and wrecks Kyogre with Thunder. Thunder could also prove useful against other flying/water types, but it's not for much other than Kyogre.
HP Fire is just for extra coverage against Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Genesect, as only Dialga also carries a fire move. However, Latios is destroyed by Genesect's scarfed U-Turn, and fears bug moves from Scizor and Forretress(although they're slower).
I'm not at all convinced that a Mewtwo or a Rayquaza wouldn't be a better option than Latios, especially since Mewtwo's Taunt would be helpful, and the old Choice Band Rayquaza set I used to use provides an excellent counter to suicide leads.
THREAT LIST
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By far the biggest danger to my team. Choice Scarf Genesect beats Latios with U-Turn, Groundceus with Ice Beam, Xerneas with Iron Head, and Lugia/Scizor can't touch him. Only Dialga can take him out with Fire Blast, but Dialga is only reliable at full health, and they can easily switch Genesect out to whittle Dialga down until Genesect can eliminate him with Ice Beam.
EDIT: I just realized Lucario-M could potentially replace Scizor in many ways, while also resisting everything of Genesect's, and I could use an unexpected Blaze Kick to provide the needed coverage. Alternatively, I could replace Latios/Dialga with Entei, which takes care of Genesect while also being an effective anti suicide lead with extreme speed: however, Entei's stats are otherwise pretty underwhelming in the Ubers tier and its only small niche over Ho-Oh is Extreme Speed, so it could prove a liability. I'm also considering just replacing Latios/Dialga with a Genesect of my own, with Blaze Kick, although this obviously could never be a totally reliable check for fear of opposing Genesect's Blaze Kick. Also, while Genesect's Extreme Speed can be useful priority, it's not strong enough to anti lead suicide leads as Choice Banded Entei or Rayquaza could do.
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I really have no answer for Level 2 Probopass(read about the strategy here http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/probopass-lv-2-sturdy-abuse.79418/), besides maybe setting up Stealth Rock then whirlwinding it to break it's Sturdy, but that's risky and usually results in sacrificing 1-2 pokemon. Although they're not very common, I feel like an idiot each time this beats me: another reason why I'd like a Mewtwo over Latios, for Taunt(other than Taunt, all I can think of to stop this set is Substitute, but I don't know what in Ubers effectively uses Substitute). However, even Taunt is stopped by magic coat prediction.
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Suicide leads I have no effective answer for. I previously used a Choice Banded Rayquaza with Extreme Speed to deal with these very effectively, which is one of the reasons I'd like to replace Latios for Rayquaza.
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Extreme Killer Arceus is generally stopped by Lugia, but if stealth rock is present and he's set up with swords dance, Lugia becomes unable to stop Arceus. Scizor can stop him to an extent, resisting Extreme Speed and being neutral to all other attacks, but an unboosted Bullet Punch only does so much damage, and generally is only enough to revenge kill Arceus with very low health. These combinded with Xerneas and Groundceus' neutral typing against EKiller usually allow me to get rid of him without too much hassle, but he can be very dangerous.
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As I mentioned, Groundceus often eliminates POgre if they switch to him after I've set up. However, Groundceus cannot switch into any of POgres' attacks, only 2HKOs him without a boost, and occasionally cannot OHKO even at +2 if it's a defensive Kyogre(that only happened to me once). Lugia is able to stall, but Latios is my best counter to POgre and he does the job well: however, if I switch out Latios, keep in mind that POgre will be a big threat.
piss off groudon (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Defog

bug twat (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Atk / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Superpower
- Toxic

stall hell (Lugia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Ice Beam

god moose (Xerneas) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Sleep Talk
-

not on my WATCH (Dialga) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Stealth Rock

psydragon twat (Latios) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Fire]​




Thanks for reading and for any suggestions!​
 
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UPDATE:
I've replaced Dialga for Primal Groudon as an offensive stealth rock setter because he basically does Dialga's job but better, and provides a much more reliable counter to Genesect.
I've replaced Latios with banded Rayquaza because he provides probably the best anti lead to suicide leads, which no one expects, because no one expects choice band, and provides otherwise powerful and useful coverage.

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fking groudon (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

I'm not to sure about the EV spread and nature: does he need more bulk to be an effective stealth rocker? Keep in mind he usually won't be leading, and he only sets rocks if I need it for the other team: otherwise he just provides offensive support. I went for max speed EVs because it helps offensively and with guaranteeing stealth rock is set, but with his pretty low speed is it even worth it?

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lizard king (Rayquaza) @ Choice Band
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- V-create
- Extreme Speed

Jolly nature is to assure he's faster than Kyogre and Groudon, mostly Kyogre as I need Rayquaza as an effective Kyogre check: however Dragon Ascent generally won't OHKO Kyogre so stealth rock or prior damage otherwise will be needed, and Rayquaza can only revenge kill for fear of Ice Beam, unless it's a sure switch into a water move (but even then Rayquaza has poor bulk).
Also notable, if Genesect isn't locked into Ice Beam Rayquaza can revenge kill him: this is unreliable though.

Please, I could still use any advice or suggestions. I haven't yet tried out my new team with Groudon and Rayquaza so we'll see how it goes, I'm sure more changes will need to be made as Genesect and Probopass are still huge threats.
 
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At this point, I could solve my Genesect problem by replacing Scizor with Blaze Kick M-Lucario; however I'm not sure it would be worth Lucario's various downfalls, such as a weaker bullet punch, an inability to counter Lugia (although he can wall him) which leaves me without a reliable Lugia answer, and an inability to switch into moves such as Moonblast.

I could run an offensive Lucario with
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raccoon twat (Lucario) @ Lucarionite​
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Blaze Kick
- Swords Dance

However, this leaves me without a good counter to Lugia. I could run a rouge toxic on Lucario, but I'd have to sacrifice swords dance (or Close Combat?) and I'm not sure if Lucario is worth using without both of those moves, and I'd have to sacrifice speed by running an Adamant nature over Jolly to somewhat make up for the loss.
 
Hi, the changes you've made already are generally pretty good ones. Swapping Dialga for Primal Groudon, Latios for Rayquaza, and Mega Lucario for Mega Scizor makes this team much more offensive than it was before, and eliminates some questionable choices in regards to structure. You have methods of potentially breaking stall in Mega Lucario and Rayquaza, and some slack is picked up against the opposing offense matchup too thanks to Scarf Xerneas and priority use.

With that said, Lugia should be replaced as the team has become much more offensive and the most obvious choice is Giratina-O. This retains much needed counterplay against EKiller and SD Arceus Ground while keeping the Ground immunity and check to Primal Groudon. You also gain secondary priority which should help in forcing out offensive threats like Deo-A and Mega Gengar. The set you should run is Defog / Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail / Earthquake with 252 Atk / 244 Def / 12 Spe / Adamant. If you find that you don't need Defog support you can even try a less common moveset along the lines of Thunder Wave + Hex.

It doesn't make much sense to run Defog on Swords Dance Arceus, as already shown if you want Defog then use it on Gira-O, Arceus-Ground should run Recover instead of Defog. Something to just be aware of; the cost of running another move on Scarf Xern is that it might get pulled from Sleep Talk against Darkrai, but at the same time it can sometimes be useful against certain threats. Grass Knot and Rock Slide may be potential candidates. Thanks to the combination of Mega Lucario and CB Rayquaza you can actually get away with not EVing your Primal Groudon to survive boosted Xerneas, although the lack of direct counterplay for Mega Salamence means that you should run Dragon Tail instead of Fire Punch. Also consider running Jolly instead of Adamant as to be more sure against opposing base 90 Speed Pokemon and to get a jump on newer metagame developments like fast Ho-Oh. Lastly, Mega Lucario should run Iron Tail over Blaze Kick (you have V-Create on Rayquaza so Skarmory and Bronzong are already accounted for).

Summary:
- The 3 changes you made are good and I would keep them
- Replace Lugia for Giratina-O with Defog / Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail / Earthquake and 252 Atk / 244 Def / 12 Spe / Adamant
- Run Recover instead of Defog on Arceus-Ground
- Consider another coverage move for Scarf Xern
- Run Dragon Tail instead of Fire Punch on Primal Groudon
- Consider running Jolly instead of Adamant on Primal Groudon
- Run Iron Tail instead of Blaze Kick on Mega Lucario

With these changes all archetypes are covered well enough, as are bigger threats this team seemed to struggle against prior. You say you're worried about breaking Lugia but SD Mega Lucario and CB Jolly Rayquaza can beat it. Good luck with the changes.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions Minority!

While adding an extra coverage move to Xerneas could be helpful with Kyogre or Ho-Oh and a few others, I don't think it's worth the cost against Darkrai as it would severely lower my chance of OHKOing him (85% to ~57%) and it really is worth having a dedicated counter to Darkrai, not to mention that Xerneas is still very useful otherwise.

I hadn't realized that Lucario easily beats Lugia with SD, toxic would definitely be useless.

However, losing the fire coverage on Groudon and Lucario leaves me still dangerously vulnerable to Genesect, with only Groudon capable of walling but not OHKOing him, so I'm going to keep Blaze Kick on Lucario and Fire Punch on Groudon, unless I find Genesect not to be a problem in which case I'll consider changing one of them.

Jolly seems like a good idea over Adamant, I'll change that.

As for replacing Lugia with Giratina, I'm really reluctant to replace Lugia as he's probably my favorite ubers pokemon and has always been very reliable and useful. However, it does seem like a better idea to use Giratina instead, especially since it would allow Groundceus Recover, so I'll try that out, but I may revert back to Lugia.

These changes only leave me glaringly weak to Probopass, but it's pretty uncommon and I might be able to take it out with stealth rock, I guess I'll just have to live with this weakness.
 
I hadn't realized that Lucario easily beats Lugia with SD
Wouldn't say easily, but it can break it for sure.

However, losing the fire coverage on Groudon and Lucario leaves me still dangerously vulnerable to Genesect, with only Groudon capable of walling but not OHKOing him, so I'm going to keep Blaze Kick on Lucario and Fire Punch on Groudon, unless I find Genesect not to be a problem in which case I'll consider changing one of them.
Genesect isn't relevant in this metagame and your team isn't weak to it. Without Iron Tail on Mega Lucario you fail to threaten Lugia and several other defensive threats that serve as backbones for teams. Without Dragon Tail on P Don you struggle too much against Mega Salamence, and lose utility against teams that run Lati, Gira-O, etc.

These changes only leave me glaringly weak to Probopass
?????
 
Yeah you're definitely right about blaze kick actually, but without it my team is pretty weak to Genesect as only Groudon can counter it. I'll switch it though, as Lucario really needs Iron Tail. As for Groudon, I really need at least one reliable fire move to take care of Genesect, as well as Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Forretress (while neither very common besides Scizor, as a whole they appear a reasonable amount)and I don't think I'll have too much trouble with Salamence (if I keep Lugia at least). If I find Salamence to be troublesome I'll use Dragon Tail.

I mentioned the Probopass weakness in the threatlist of the original post, there's an annoying strategy that you pretty much need either Taunt or Substitute to stop, so I can easily beaten by Probopass as long as they predict accordingly. Again, it's not a relevant threat just annoying that I can't do anything about it.
 
And you're also right about Giratina, I tried playing with Lugia but I'm destroyed by Gengar (especially if Groundon/Groundceus are gone), and Giratina is just more suited to the team than Lugia is now that it's more offensive. I'm just kind of upset at having replaced 2/3s of my team.

rip lugia you will be missed
 
Hi, first off I think it would be organised to compile your changes into your original post so others know your current team. I'll base off my rate on Groundceus/Gira-O/Pdon/M-Luc/Ray/Xern, let's get right into it :]
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    Bulkier Spread
Your team still lacks solid checks to Xerneas, it can set up on Arceus-Ground or Giratina-O and still have an overwhelmingly high chance of surviving Earthquake from Arceus-Ground+Bullet Punch from M-Lucario or Earthquake+Shadow Sneak from Giratina-O+Bullet Punch from M-Lucario at full HP. In any case you stand to lose at least 2 pokemon to Geomancy Xerneas in most situations, which is clearly detrimental to your team. A simple fix to alleviate the Xerneas weakness is to change Primal Groudon's spread to a more defensive one. A moveset of Stealth Rock/Earthquake/Lava Plume/Thunder Wave and an EV spread of 248HP/56+Def/204SpD is much more effective in taking on Xerneas, always surviving any attack from +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rock damage while maintaining physical bulk as well. Earthquake > Precipice Blades on support sets as accuracy is very much preferred over a slight boost in power, Lava Plume grants dual-STAB and has a nifty burn chance, and Thunder Wave cripples many fast switch-ins to Primal Groudon like Lati@s and support Arceus formes.

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Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Thunder Wave
  • 384.png
    Life Orb > Choice Band
While Banded Rayquaza sounds really destructive and powerful on paper, it loses too much momentum and grants the opponent too many free turns. For example, Rayquaza locked into Extremespeed is easy setup fodder for SD Arceus-Ghost, just to name one scenario. I'm really not a fan of these drawbacks so I think Life Orb would be better on Rayquaza so it still maintains most of its power while not being constrained to one move. I would also then change the moveset, taking out Earthquake and V-Create for Surf and Draco Meteor. Draco Meteor is an extremely powerful nuke to dent most pokemon that resist Dragon Ascent, and also having the ability to OHKO Giratina-O. As your team has no way of severely damaging Primal Groudon, I would prefer Surf > Earthquake to OHKO any variant of Primal Groudon at full HP, barring 252/252+ spreads which aren't seen at all nowadays. You can still keep Earthquake if you feel like you need the coverage versus grounded Steels but I think Surf would be valuable for your squad.

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Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
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    Rock > Ground
Your team has no Flying resists, and Ubers is a metagame filled with powerful Flying-STABs coming from M-Salamence, Rayquaza, Ho-Oh and more, so a Flying resist is really necessary. Thus, Arceus-Rock would be more suitable as your Arceus forme of choice. The Calm Mind+Refresh monoattacking set is excellent at breaking stall and fat teams and gives you a great weapon versus Lugia too. It OHKOs M-Salamence, Rayquaza and Ho-Oh while taking any hit including +1 M-Salamence's Earthquake. Arceus-Ground's ability to check Primal Groudon won't really be missed since Rayquaza's Surf outright OHKOs. On the other hand, Arceus-Rock patches up your team's defensive holes of having no Flying resist while also being extremely effective against fatter builds with Refresh.

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Arceus-Rock @ Stone Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Refresh
- Judgment
- Recover
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    >
    448-mega.png
M-Lucario's role as a soft check to Xerneas isn't really needed any more with the change of Primal Groudon to a more defensive set, and its frailty doesn't give it space to set up a Swords Dance unless against a stall or very fat team with little to no offensive pressure, which Arceus-Rock already does while also being useful versus offense. Hence, M-Gengar would be a much better pokemon for your Mega slot, as it has huge presence vs offense and stall alike, being able to trap and revenge kill both frail and fat pokemon. It also eliminates Shaymin-Sky, a lesser seen but very deadly threat versus your team. The utility and revenge killing power it gives and its blazing 130 speed tier are massive boons for an offensive team. Sludge Wave, Destiny Bond and Taunt are pretty much must-haves, so the option lies between Shadow Ball and Focus Blast for the final moveslot. Focus Blast is generally only useful for Tyranitar and Ferrothorn that are mostly only seen on stall or fat teams so Shadow Ball is a better all-purpose move for dual-STAB and threatening Psychic types. However if you find yourself facing Tyranitar and/or Ferrothorn often, you can consider Focus Blast.

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Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball

Just a small nitpick, Xerneas should have the leftover 4 EVs in Def instead of HP, this makes it take less Stealth Rock damage by virtue of having an odd HP number. The rest of its moveset along with Giratina-O's moveset that Minority Suspect suggested, are fine. Hope the changes were useful 〜(^∇^〜)
 
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