Balanced non-weather gen 5 RMT

[Mutiny]

Alright, so basically I wanted to create a team that didn't use a weather inducer that held its own in the metagame. I wanted the team to be a balanced one (good mix of bulky and offensive) with a few suprise sets thrown in. I've used variations of this team for a while now and while it works well if played intelligently it has some noticeable weaknesses.

Cloyster (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Surf

I like this bulky cloyster set, most assume a shell smash set and are caught unawares by its bulk/real intentions. great for spinning and laying down spikes, while also possessing some offensive power. its biggest negative is its weakness to entry hazards.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 HP / 220 Def / 68 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Thunder Wave
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

I really like this set, similar to cloyster its bulk is rather suprising. its very reliable at laying down rocks, fun to paralyse opponents, while the combination of leech seed, giga drain and leftovers both damage the opponent while restoring celebis health.

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn

This is a pretty typical swords dance scizor set except the use of U-turn in place of either bug bite or roost. I like using U-turn early game to scout switchins and what not, U-turn may seem a bit silly once you have a swords dance up but at that point bullet punch and superpower are able to do the job.

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Disable
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Sub + disable Gengar, works nicely but can be a bit unreliable with focus blasts poor accuracy and the prediction required to use disable effectively. Also works nicely as a spin blocker.

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- ExtremeSpeed

Probs one of my favourite sets, If played correctly can rip massive holes in teams although i usually try and leave him for later game to clean up. With multiscale (which usually remains intact thanks to cloysters spinning capabilities) this thing is able to set up a dragon dance on close to anything, it then becomes a deadly sweeper. extremespeed is nice for weakened or frail pokemon that could potentially outspeed.

Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Recover
- Scald
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Good defensive tank, soaking in the hits and then threatening to burn with scald. also nice to switch in on choiced electric moves.

Probably the thing this team struggles most with are fast special attackers with a wide movepool. for example, after setting up rocks and in the sun, a victreebel with the right set can essentially sweep my whole team.

Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!

(Haven't done of these for ages, how do you add pics?)

 

[Aichan]

It does not make fun reading this rmt because it is quite boring.
Make sure to add in some pictures.
Just click on the "insert image button" and then copy paste the image link into the window that will pop up. We also would like to know why you did choose these pokemon and what roles they fit in your team.
Without taking so much effort into this your sd scizor set is kinda weird. That scizor does not need full ev's in speed. Put everything in HP instead to get a bit more bulk and replace U-turn with either Bug Bite or Roost.
Explanation: Sword Dance + U-Turn is just dump. Bug Bite is the strongest attack scizor can have due to technician and stab. Roost can be used instead especially if you are using life orb. Personally I go with Leftovers together will Bug Bite but roost and life orb is also OK as well.

 

[Honus]

Why hello there!

Anyways, I agree that special attackers are quite troubling for this team. One Pokemon that stands out is Latios. Simply put, Life Orb Latios 2HKO's your entire team with Draco Meteor and Stealth Rock on the field. Obviously, some carry Dragon Pulse, but every time a Draco Meteor Latios comes in, you will almost always have to give up a Pokemon to it. This is obviously a weakness that should be addressed somehow, and there are a few ways you can fix it. The first is to change your Scizor's EVs a bit to add some more bulk to it. Giving Scizor the following set allows it to take many special hits better, and also comes with the benefit of not getting 2HKO'd by Draco Meteor. All in all, I'd say this Scizor set is almost perfect for this team's needs, as not only does it help you beat Latios, it also manages to retain Swords Dance and U-Turn, like on your current set.

Scizor (F) @ Iron Plate
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

As well as Latios, Specs Tornadus and opposing Gengar behind a sub can really give this team a hell of a time trying to stop them. Specs Tornadus falls in the same boat as Latios in that Hurricane 2HKO's your entire team, but unlike with Latios's Draco Meteor, it will rip right through Scizor. With stuff like BKC's RMT and the rise of rain offense in general, this thing is becoming more common and it'd be smart to account for it. Gengar also proves annoying for this team if it has SR Support for Dragonite. As only Scizor and Quagsire can probably take its attacks and then break its sub, although they'll just die the next turn, so they'll have died a warrior's death for no cause. Anyways, while you do have Spikes, Spinblockers are quite hard to fit on teams in a generation where so many threats to have to be checked, so I think that the best option for this team is to try a dedicated Special Wall in place of Gengar. Jirachi is the special wall you want as it is able to shrug off hits from Gengar, Tornadus, Latios and nearly every other special attacker in the game, for that matter. Jirachi is also able to 'hit back' with Body Slam's high chance for Paralysis and its STAB Iron Head coming off of a Base 100 Attack stat while carrying a 60% flinch chance. Jirachi also comes with the benefit of being able to use Wish, which is a huge gift to Cloyster, Dragonite and the rest of the team.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Wish
- Protect


The final few threats that I can see as potentially being annoying to this team are Mixed Infernape and Mienshao. Mixed Infernape is able to potentially break through Quagsire with either Focus Blast or Grass Knot, both of which can do a great amount of damage to Quagsire. Towards the rest of your team, Infernape can utilize its Fire attacks to blast through Jirachi, Celebi and Scizor, while Fighting attacks beat Cloyster and Hidden Power Ice beats Dragonite. Mienshao, on the other hand, utilizes its raw Physical power to simply blast its way through teams, and yours is no exception. Hi-Jump Kick 2HKO's Quagsire and the rest of the team, save Celebi who is beaten via U-Turn and Dragonite, who will lose to Hidden Power Ice if SR is up. While Quagsire is a great wall, I think that Cloyster handles all Dragons, so you could probably defer to a bulkier Physical wall for handling much of these threats, such as Restalk Gyarados. Restalk Gyarados is great at beating Infernape, Mienshao and also helps with the small Lucario problem that would open up if you choose to switch Gengar for Jirachi. It may not have Unaware, but it can phaze most threats into Spikes, which is almost as useful. It also gives you an additional means of beating Volcarona, which is always good to have.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail / Roar
- Rest

Finally, I suggest you make a few changes to your movesets on both Celebi and Cloyster. Cloyster wants Scald over Surf so that it has the chance to burn incoming threats. A 30% burn chance is always nice to have and a burn can be the difference between winning and losing a match, in some cases. If you're missing any KOs with Surf, then you can keep that, but on paper, Scald is probably the better choice. Finally, I suggest running Hidden Power Fire and Recover on Celebi. Hidden Power Fire grants you the ability to beat cores of Rotom-W and Scizor, which are very hard to break otherwise, and Recover is simply just easier to gain your health back with than Leech Seed is.

Change Summary:

Cloyster
Surf->Scald

Celebi:
Thunder Wave->Hidden Power Fire
Leech Seed->Recover



GL!

 

[CedOmega]

From afar, your team seems to struggle against almost everything. In summary, it will honestly fail fast and hard. Having said that, here are a few of my suggested changes for you:

1)Cloyster: Good Offensive-Defensive Set-Up Sweeper ; ShellSmash seems to be your best improvement yet for Cloyster, however it can only learn the move as a Shellder. With base 180 Defense, Cloyster can either run WhiteHerb or FocusSash and be assured a successive Shellsmash.
Suggested Nature: Impish; 150 Attack/252 Defense/106 Speed
Suggested moveset: ShellSmash, Rockblast, Icicle Spear & IceShard
Suggested Ability: SkillLink

2)Secondly, your team seems to be easily crippled after being burned. Sure Dragonite has a Lum Berry, but it can only be used once to ensure that it can securely set up a DragonDance. Prankster ability Sableye says hello to Dragonite. Sableye has access to Will-o-wisp which cripples both Scizor and Dragonite & Substitute/Taunt, which can stiffle them severely when Sableye runs a defensive set. Access to Recover only furthers the stalling Pokemon's power over your team.

3)Lastly, Celebi's set seems useless against MagicBounce ability Espeon and Xatu; especially Xatu, as it can bounce back every one of its status/support moves and resist GigaDrain. Perhaps it would be better running a Healbell-BatonPass set?

 

[Mutiny]

Thanks heaps Karpman, some really good ideas! I'm going to try basically what you have suggested, a bulkier scizor set however instead of U-turn im going to trial bug bite. I really like the idea of jirachi, and the ability to wish pass, however im already using enough physical attackers so i was thinking perhaps a calm mind, thunderbolt, flash cannon, wish set. I also like the idea of rest/talk gyarados set which i have used a lot in the past and am keen to give it a go.

problems i see now is a big weakness to fire: cloyster, celebi, scizor and jirachi all struggle against strong fire type attacks. im thinking perhaps swap celebi with a fire resistant special wall?

 

[CedOmega]

Actually, that is where Cloyster comes into play with RockBlast. Fire types that don't possess Priority moves, namely Arcanine with ExtremeSpeed and Infernape with MachPunch and VacuumWave access, fear it's powerful attacks after just one ShellSmash.
It is in this case that I highly suggest having FocusSash on Cloyster, assuring that you can successfully do at least one ShellSmash.

Also, consider Vaporeon over Celebi if you worry about Fire Types being a threat to your team. The wonderous thing about it is that they have the ability to run a multitude of sets, including those of a Wish-Passer:

1)Scald, Roar, Wish and Icebeam
2)Yawn, Wish, AcidArmor and Batonpass
3)Scald, Icebeam, Shadowball and Yawn
4)Wish, Toxic, Roar and Scald
5)Toxic, Wish, Protect and Sclad
6)AquaRing, Wish, AcidArmor and Batonpass...
The possibilities go on and on...

*Mainly due to it's high Sp.Defense and enormous Hp-Wish pass, Chansey@Eviolite or Blissey@Leftovers can pass a huge Wish to almost any allie. Paired with Cloyster, your only fear, unless running a defensive set on Chansey/Blissey, is a Fighting type, which is easily covered when considering that Celebi is on the team.
Chansey/Blissey can run SereneGrace+Flamethrower to burn the opposing pokemon, thus weakening their physical damage on it. SereneGrace means that the loss in NaturalCure could be fatal, unless running HealBell. Wish and HealBell do wonders when used in a combo. Bulky yet useful, Chansey/Blissey could really improve alot on your team.

 

[Lemonade]

I think a Chansey would be a good option over Celebi for a few reasons. As you mentioned, some previous changes could leave you susceptible to Fire-type moves; Chansey as a special sponge (which your team also needs) would tank these, and be able to provide Wish and SR. A set of Wish, Protect, Stealth Rock, and Thunder Wave can cripple those fast Special sweepers and support your own team. A simple Max HP max Def EV spread with Eviolite if course would be most beneficial, allowing you to tank Draco Meteors among other moves that the rest of your team has some trouble with.