Balanced OU RMT

[DarkCyberElf]

After playing about 30 battles it became very evident my team couldn't handle threats like Gyarados (damn that Bounce one) and Lucario as well as they should. I tried Gliscor (that gave Gyarados a free switch-in), so I knew what I had to do. Scarf Tran wasn't part of my agenda, as Shuca Tran has worked perfectly so far. I finally decided on using another Scarfed Mon, which was Rotom-H. His invaluable ability to kill both Gyarados and Lucario made it to my roster. I got rid of half my team to make necessary changes (Lucario, Starmie and Jirachi were all scrapped). After said changes, if anyone notices further weaknesses, please make sure to post before this thread hits the 72 hour bump xD.


At a glance:

Edit: Starmie replaced with Vaporeon, Jirachi replaced with Scarf Flygon (read frank's post)

Edit #2: Lucario replaced by Rotom-H

Metagross @ Occa Berry

Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/236 Atk/12 Def/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash

I decided on Metagross as my lead because Metagross leads cannot handle two common leads: Hippowdon and Swampert. Breloom (with the bulky spread) can easily come in on the Earthquake and Spore then set up. Metagross is pretty reliable for setting up Stealth Rock, and he can also beat Azelf leads (Bullet Punch is a 3HKO, so Azelf wins if it attacks with Fire Blast first, but Meteor Mash makes sure I win). This easily coerces Infernape leads to attack or set up SR, and they are easily 2HKO'd (EQ+BP). Metagross is able to come in later like Swampert and help.
Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb

Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 172 HP/204 Def/132 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Spore
- Leech Seed
- Focus Punch

I use the bulky spread to ensure an easy switch in on something slower using Earthquake. I can also come in and survive CB Stone Edge or Crunch from Tyranitar.
Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry

Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Heatran is the 3rd most popular Pokemon to use underneath Scizor and Salamence, and the reason why is obvious. Both Metagross and Breloom hate Fire attacks, so Heatran covers them both pretty well, and Breloom handles Ground Attacks. This Heatran beats other Heatrans, fakes a Scarf user, and revenge kills non Max-Speed Jolly Gyarados (rare) with HP Electric. Dragon Pulse is for Kingdra and Latias mainly.

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers

Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Surf
- Protect
- Toxic

As has been pointed out, I had no insurance against Fire attacks (except Heatran), and I needed a bulky water, as well as a Wish passer. Vaporeon started off with HP Electric, but after only doing an average of 65.7% to Bulky Gyarados (he used Taunt to nullify Wish Protect, and often he didn't stay in after seeing I had HP Electric), I was upset that my sole Gyarados
counter could not handle most. Vaporeon remains an integral part of my team, but I went with Toxic instead. I may go with Ice Beam if needed to help Flygon.

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf

(Does Rotom-H have an animated icon?)
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

I quickly discovered by team's glaring weakness to Lucario and Gyarados, so I searched immediately how I could solve this problem. The Rotom appliances came to mind for Gyarados, and Lucario could only handle them if he is faster. So I went with a particularly useful set, Scarf Rotom, as most counters rely on being faster (Blissey and company don't like to waste time throwing Ice Beams at Rotoms, and Trick makes their lives miserable), so Rotom was placed on my team to OHKO Gyarados (ThunderBolt) and Lucario (Overheat). I thought about the last slot (HP Ground or HP Fighting?), and having STAB is more important to me so I can surprise Gengar and other Rotoms.

Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Outrage

Almost every successful team needs a scout or lure to see their opponent's team, and Flygon and Vaporeon do well together. Flygon's ability to U-Turn same as Jirachi without the Fire weakness, as well as the EQ immunity for Metagross and Heatran, Flygon has proven itself useful for my team as the premier scout and revenge killer. A great replacement for Jirachi's slot, as I needed an Electric immune Pokemon.

Edit: Changes were already made courtesy of franky and naughty blissey. My after-thoughts below are no longer relevant to my changes.

Possible Changes:

- Giving Breloom some Atk EVs or more Speed.
- Having a different move set or niche for Starmie on the team.
- Changing out Lucario for another sweeper or improving on his spread.
- Changing Jirachi for another Wish passer or Screener.
- Switching out Pokemon from a suggestion by a poster.

Now that I have described what each one does, which is pretty obvious and not recommended by the RMT rules, I will now reveal that (1) I have played a lot with team, (2) I am not confident about the niche each Pokemon fills yet, and (3) I have more to say.

Metagross is my second favorite lead and #1 favorite Pokemon, but I haven't been able to find good places where he could fit onto a team. If anyone suggests I use him outside of my lead, please give me some options. I love Breloom's ability to disrupt nearly any team, and his ability to be my go-to guy for Swampert leads. However, he is one more Pokemon who suffers from my team's inability to wall or sponge certain attacks. I may need another Pokemon outside of Starmie or Heatran that doesn't require setting up to work as insurance against attacks. I am not as happy at Lucario's performance as I thought I would be, because as it happens, any Pokemon running a Mixed set (lol Electivire) has a problem with damage output. I am thinking about Tyraniboah as my wall Breaker and Mixed set, as he is now-a-days unexpected, and he lets me beat Blissey easier (101 Subs). He scares away Rotom too (I sorta need that), and, but he capitalizes on one thing not brought to attention, a Fighting weakness. This is why I am thinking of replacing Jirachi with Rotom or Cresselia as my screener. Is this a good idea?

My win/loss ratio so far with this particular team has been slightly higher than normal, a 77.5% as it were, instead of my 50-50 shot. I am not skilled yet in Team Building, but I have come to recognize the niches each Pokemon must fill, team support in screens, wish passing and pivoting, etc. Anyone have something for me to learn? (Yes, that's right, where can I go post to become an apprentice? I am confused about the Battle 101 forum.

Thanks for suggestions, please make sure to post, do not just read or skim, I hate seeing 600 views with only 4 posts, if you are going to view my thread, please post something worth while. Thank you.

 

[franky]

Problems:

Fire Attacks

How to fix:

Starmie cannot take constant Fire Blast, Flamethrowers, etc. Jirachi can't pass Wish because of its Steel-type, hindering it from passing Wish. I suggest Vaporeon, like you mentioned in that place.

Vaporeon
@ Leftovers
Bold Nature (Def+ / Atk-)
188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe

- Wish
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Surf

A great wish passer on the team riddled with 3 Pokes weak to fire. Wish heals your team mates, and not only that, having Starmie is an iffy check to Gyarados is dangerous. Vaporeon is a legit checker to Gyarados and Infernape. Since, Starmie is no longer required and I don't think rapid spin is gonig to hurt you that much. You could trade for some fire power and a good Electric resist this time. I would suggest Flygon there with Scarf:

Flygon
@ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature (Spe+ / SpA-)
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Se

- Outrage
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

The ultimate scout for your team and adds a good physical threat. Jolly nature ensures you outpace Salamence locked into Outrage and OHKO it back with Outrage. QuakeEdge for good coverage, but you generally want to spam U-turn until your sure to use those attacks. Gl with the team. Outlook of your team:

Metagross / Breloom / Flygon / Heatran / Vaporeon / Lucario

 

[DarkCyberElf]

Thanks Franky, that was all I needed to figure out how to solve the rampant Fire problem. With only one two Pokemon who hate SR (Heatran and Vaporeon), a Spinner may not be crucial after all. Thanks for the coverage, I'm sure Vaporeon will outclass Jirachi and give me an easier time with Gyarados. Flygon solves the DDance problem (I risk a speed tie with Jolly Max Speed Salamence after he dances once though). The only reason I used Modest Starmie was because he didn't need a Speed nature like Flygon does to beat Dragon Dancers (493 > 492), and he could beat both Mence and Gyarados. However, as durability goes, you did help a lot.

 

[DarkCyberElf]

Counter to Lucario?

In bad health, Flygon and Heatran (Heatran loses to Jolly variants) are not viable counters to Lucario. Is there any way I can rectify this without losing any coverage or a niche on my team?

Vaporeon --> Gyarados?
Shuca Tran ---> Scarf Tran?
Flygon --> Scarf Rotom?

Any bright ideas as to how I can solve the Lucario problem?

 

[DarkCyberElf]

After making drastic changes to my first successful OU team (even though I have made about 30), I feel confident I may actually have a chance at survival against growing threats so far. Thanks to franky and naughty blissey, without whose suggestions I may have scrapped another team.

Please continue to post suggestions, I really need to know my team's weaknesses. Now I think it's safe to say after almost 50 battles I can generate an accurate threat list:

(Note: I will not be listing every Pokemon to see how I might combat it, I will only list evident threats that cause me trouble.)

Threats:

- Blissey: Easy to start with Blissey, as I have no Pokemon that can force her out or OHKO (Flygon being the only suitable one). Therefore, one change I need on my team is a physical attacker able to beat down Blissey. After adding Rotom-H to my team, Tricking it makes it easier to beat, but it remains something able to wall more than half my team. Suggestions on what to add to remove Blissey as a threat?

- Empoleon: Now without HP Electric on Vaporeon (who also loses to teams centered around Empoleon b/c of TS), Rotom is my best bet. Empoleon can now set up on Vaporeon as well. I do know how to make an Empoleon waste being out. (a) Never break his first Sub. (b) Make sure you have a Pokemon who can take repeated Surfs/Ice Beam/Grass Knot (Vaporeon). (c) Switch in with something that can OHKO him and cannot be OHKO'd as well and then break all his Subs and then KO (not sure if Rotom is capable of this, are there EVs I can use to make sure a Standard Sub-Petaya set doesn't OHKO with Surf?). If I really had to deal with an Empoleon, I would switch in Rotom-H to break all his Subs and force him to Surf, then switch to Vaporeon and stall him (will I need HP Electric to beat him?).

- CurseTar: Cursetar is incredibly hard to deal with if you do not have Scizor to help annihilate him. If Metagross goes down, or he gets enough Curses, I'm not sure anything I can do will help beat him. My best bet is to Trick him with Rotom so he is stuck on Payback. Technically Flygon can 2HKO with EQ after he Curses. Still very hard to deal with.

- Breloom: Like Roserade or Crobat, I have nothing to deal with the incoming sleeping move. I have to basically let something be crippled and switch to a counter. In this case I would hopefully know my opponent's team at this point. Rotom-H is obviously what I would counter Breloom with (immunity to Focus Punch and outspeeds).

- Anything using Toxic Spikes: With Vaporeon being the only one who hates it, it remains annoying since she is vital to my ability to beat Empoleon, and without a Rapid Spinner, I lose to Empoleon.

I pretty much have an idea of how to beat everything, and here are some potential threats that really don't make the threat list:

- Raikou: This thing usually gives entire teams problems, but Flygon outspeeds, U-Turns (I switch first to predict HP Ice, if not using SubCM HP Ice, Flygon wins). U-Turning to break Subs is the best way to beat Substitute using bulky Pokemon. Of course, Rhyperior doesn't give a shit about U-Turn, but I rule him out as he has bulky waters walling the hell out of him (mostly). Raikou is a known threat to me b/c my comrade naughty blissey uses it on nearly every team for its ability to absolutely wreck unprepared teams. So I'm prepared for it as always.
- CurseLax: Anything not named CurseTar cannot set up at all thanks to Trick Rotom. Curselax loses to Breloom as well, pretty damn hard actually. Even if he is Rest Talk, Breloom outspeeds and waits till Sleep Talk picks a useless move, then he Focus Punches.
- Crocune: Easily singlehandedly raped by Rotom-H b/c of Trick. Offensive Suicune are easier to wear down and rarely seen. If they exist, Vaporeon comes in and Toxics one.

A lot of Pokemon requiring set up often find themselves walled by my team, which I found quirky. My team is like a wall to Pokemon requiring set up now. My team doesn't require set up for itself as well. Of course I can't afford to with no Rapid Spinner. My team doesn't have a counter to every single Pokemon, but it is balanced enough to give any team a run for it's money. It would seem like Stall Teams would beat me easily without a Stall Breaker, however, since Breloom is sorta know as the king of saying NO to stall, I doubt it will be all that scary. No Pokemon on Stall teams scare me at all (maybe Perish Song Celebi). Baton Pass teams are always hard to keep up with, however, since my team doesn't require set up, I will be attacking 100% of the time, which eventually wears down BP Chains. I am without a Taunter (I gave up Gliscor) or a phazer, but I have yet to encounter a BP Chain in a long time, and I haven't found their users to be absolutely brilliant. So until I get absolutely schooled, I'm pretty confident I can handle those. I am thinking about giving Heatran Taunt, as it is useful as said on the analysis, but having HP Electric and Dragon Pulse has been more useful than one might think.

I am still asking for suggestions, so please don't let franky be the sole poster on this thread, continue to post useful ideas for my team. Thanks.