Other Battle Spot hyper offense, peaked at #1

[Yamborski]

I used to play Smogon OU but over time kind of stopped caring about the bans, unbans, and tier changes. While Smogon OU is undoubtedly the best most balanced and competitive tier you can play sometimes its fun to play Battle Spot. While Battle Spot is not in any way balanced it is fun to abuse some of the most broken Pokemon in the game. The most important aspect of playing "Nintendo OU" is that people IRL can actually relate to it. This team is designed with "IRL play" in mind meaning I have it bred on my 3ds and use it against friends I know IRL who don't even know what Smogon is. Because of that this team has several restrictions.

1) No Legends. I understand that they are no stronger than some other Pokemon / Megas and it does put me at a disadvantage in teambuilding but you try and explain to a non-competitive player why it's okay for me to use my Cresselia but not their Mewtwo.
2) No Hidden Power. I don't have a 6 30 IV Ditto. :(
3) No 5th gen (or earlier) move tutors. I can't RNG manipulate either. R/S remakes have move tutors so I guess I can remove this rule, but I have to revamp the whole team for that anyway so...
4) This team is built to play 3v3 but ALSO must be competent enough in 6v6 and Doubles. In other words I want to run Stealth Rocks somewhere.

Peak proof. The ladder wasn't particularly tough so I don't think it was much of an achievement, but hey it's something?

Anyhow the team is based around running the most broken, physically intimidating 'mons I can think of. Since a lot of players run bulky offense in Battle Spot that means I face a lot of Cresselia, Suicune, Landorus, and M Venusaur many of which run Rocky Helmet. I get past them with the Hulk method, basically bashing them in the face until they die. I deal with offensive teams / Trick Room with a wide range of priority moves and bulk. This team does have a couple issues and weak links though, which I'll get to later.

@ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn / Sleep Talk

First up is Talonflame which despite being my lead in team preview is never my actual lead. I'm running max speed because I don't care about speed tying other Talonflame (max HP survives a Banded Brave Bird and they kill each other anyway). Jolly Excadrill and Pinsir Quick Attack (2HKO even at +2) outrun me but... who cares. Brave Bird is a fantastic late game sweeping move and Flare Blitz hits... Mega Mawile? Will-O-Wisp is nice against Tyranitar or Kangaskhan and it also fucks with bulky Gyarados and Zapdos who switch in on me. U-turn is really good in 6v6 but is useless in 3v3 a lot of the time. Sleep Talk is good because it lets me switch in on Breloom and OHKO it 66% of the time (and burn it otherwise). Of course it probably has a Focus Sash... Sleep Talk also helps against Mega Venusaur.

Regardless 99.9% of the time Talonflame just uses Brave Bird.

@ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

Rotom W is the only defensive Pokemon on the team but it is possibly the MVP because of its incredible utility. It can switch in on and crush Landorus and Cresselia (unless CM) while putting pressure on Suicune. I've considered running something over Volt Switch since its switching effect is more often detrimental than helpful and it is very, very weak. It doesn't do anything notable to Suicune either. Hydro Pump hits with decent force although the accuracy sucks. Will-O-Wisp burns pretty much anything it contacts and pairs well with Hydro Pump since nothing wants to take both moves. Chesto Berry + Rest was originally picked as its recovery over Pain Split because I didn't have access to a Pain Split move tutor but I eventually found it better because of its enormous PP potential. In long matches against Sub / Toxic Gliscor, Cresselia or various Shuckle it can just sit there and easily PP stall pretty much everything as Rotom can waste 112 turns in optimal conditions (for comparison Sub Roost Gliscor caps at 64 PP). Chesto Berry also lets me burn Breloom in a pinch provided they don't just outright hit with Bullet Seed 4+ times.

@ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 4 Special Defense / 220 Speed
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

Blaziken is insanely hard to wall in 6v6 when you can have an entire team devoted to taking it on. In 3v3 the situation is far worse. Flare Blitz rips a hole in everything it hits while High Jump Kick does as well... 90% of the time. Knock Off is something no one seems ready for. It takes out those damn Rocky Helmets on stuff like Landorus and Cresselia as well as completely wrecking Lati@s / random Starmie and Slowbro. Protect guarantees a speed boost avoiding Fake Outs and giving it effectively 127 base speed. Blaziken is checked pretty hard by Talonflame which is annoying so any time I use Blaziken I make sure I either bring Rotom W or have my other two Pokemon beat it hard one on one. I'm open to options over Knock Off since besides dicking Latios and killing Rocky Helmets it doesn't do much (often its better to just Flare Blitz and just get the KO). I've been experimenting with Will-O-Wisp > Knock Off due to its ability to damage Dragonite, Gyarados, Azumarill, Landorus-T, and Salamence (especially M Salamence) on the switch in. M Slowbro kinda doesn't care about Knock Off and even regular Slowbro can just take the hit and switch out. WoW also dicks over Aegislash that try to Kings Shield. EVs outrun Greninja at +1 with the rest in bulk.

Blaziken apparently gets Ice Punch in ORAS so that's pretty cool! Maybe that in the 3rd slot.

@ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 124 Speed
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Return
- Drain Punch

Kanga is my lead 95% of the time due to its sheer crushing ability to beat almost all Pokemon one on one. Even tanks like Rocky Helmet Suicune and Cresselia either die or end up at the brink of death when they try to face Kangaskhan. Fake Out + Sucker Punch is a deadly combo while Return forces anything that doesn't resist it to its knees. I try to keep Mega Kangaskhan alive even at low HP because of the utility Fake Out + Sucker Punch has. Drain Punch 2HKOs Specially Defensive Ferrothorn and blitzes through Tyranitar. Speed outruns Jolly Tyranitar and Adamant Gyarados. Who cares if it's standard, it kills everything.

@ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Swords Dance

I'm mostly running Garchomp because this is Battle Spot and that's kind of what everyone does. While it is a really reliable Pokemon it's pretty much the most common 'mon and this almost everyone has some sort of counter / check for it. Despite this SD + Lum Berry usually lets Garchomp bust through these counters. For example...

+1 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 118-141 (60.2 - 71.9%)
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 130-154 (57.2 - 67.8%)
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 135-160 (65.2 - 77.2%)

Lum Berry is literally just because FUCK KLEFKI but I guess it lets me beat Gliscor, Scald and Will-O-Wisp Rotom W (and the one in 50 matches where Garchomp lives long enough to Outrage itself into confusion). Rough Skin is also nice because it lets Garchomp get a little extra damage switching in on U-turns and M Kanga Fake Out(s). Garchomp isn't amazing but it is insanely reliable. I know Stealth Rocks isn't ideal in 3v3 (though it does badly hurt a lot of common pokes / break sashes) but I need it here for 6v6. Not like Garchomp needs more than three moves most of the time.

@ Air Balloon
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 Attack
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield / Sacred Sword / Toxic

Tyranitar was useless and I was somewhat weak to Clefable so I tried Air Balloon Aegislash for its sheer ability to dick over pretty much everything 1 on 1. 92 Attack EVs helps boost Shadow Sneak's power a bit. Shadow Ball is nice to OHKO Mega Gengar (who can't OHKO back with Shadow Ball), Lati@s, and deal a heavy blow to Cresselia. Shadow Sneak is useful priority to finish off Focus Sash pokes and random things that just won't die. The EV spread is a bit random and I'm open to other suggestions.

The last move i'm having trouble with. King's Shield is pretty rarely used since everyone predicts it and often it's beneficial to just let them over predict and attack repeatedly. Sacred Sword deals with Tyranitar, Heatran, Greninja switch ins, and random Curselax and Curse Umbreon. It also puts pressure on Chansey / Blissey who no one uses. Ghost + Steel has really good coverage and I have enough physical offense here that I haven't really wished for added coverage much. Toxic is good for Mega Kangaskhan since Aegi is immune to literally all of its moves except Sucker Punch, and Toxic lets Aegi get around that.

 

[Takeo Otori]

Congrats on the peak!

If Tyranitar is weak and you don't end up running Aegislash what about Belly Drum Azumarill? It checks Blaziken without forcing you to use Talonflame every game and can bust through walls like nothing else! It might take some pressure off Rotom W. It is very slow and beat by a lot of common Battle Spot mons like Talonflame, M Kanga, and M Venusaur so it might not be the most helpful...

Aegislash would give you a resistance to every type in the game if that matters at all.

 

[Yamborski]

Congrats on the peak!

If Tyranitar is weak and you don't end up running Aegislash what about Belly Drum Azumarill? It checks Blaziken without forcing you to use Talonflame every game and can bust through walls like nothing else! It might take some pressure off Rotom W. It is very slow and beat by a lot of common Battle Spot mons like Talonflame, M Kanga, and M Venusaur so it might not be the most helpful...

Aegislash would give you a resistance to every type in the game if that matters at all.

I gave Air Balloon Aegislash a try and it really does work well! It's nice having a hard counter for M Kangaskhan. Sorry for the late reply! I'll edit the team in a few minutes.

 

[Yamborski]

Bumping this despite its age (I could just re-post it but that seems senseless?). I would like to find a better way to beat Crocune and defensive boosters in general. Often I can overpower them but from time to time I screw up or get haxed and have a lot of trouble with them. Also I'm pretty weak to Blaiken (Talonflame isn't a great answer, though it is a good check) and Mega Lucario.

Perhaps Belly Drum Azumarill > Aegislash? Rotom / Talonflame's burns could give it setup opportunities and it could sorta slow down Lucario / Suicune / counter Blaziken.

Also I'm looking for ways to update this to the R/S remake meta.

 

[Ares]

So I really wouldn't suggest switching out Aegislash as right now you have no good stop to mega kanga otherwise, if anything I would say Garchomp is your most replaceable mon on this team. It is also your best chance to break past bulky boosters such as Crocune and so if you really are worried about losing to them than I recommend bringing Garchomp or switching it out for Belly Drum Azumarill, you can also try Power-Up Punch > Earthquake on Kanga as this will let you set up and sweep the majority of teams. The only issue with this is that you have trouble with Ghost-types so you have to play accordingly if you see them at team preview. A small thing is that you need to remove the 4HP EVs from Blaziken as this will provide less damage from rocks (which are almost non existant) but more importantly will provide less LO damage. Sorry for the small rate as you already have pretty standard stuff here, like I said earlier Garchomp is your most interchangeable Pokemon on the team and so I would use that slot to switch in a Pokemon that can account for stuff you find yourself weak to, you don't always have to bring it its just there for when you need it.

 

[Yamborski]

So I really wouldn't suggest switching out Aegislash as right now you have no good stop to mega kanga otherwise, if anything I would say Garchomp is your most replaceable mon on this team. It is also your best chance to break past bulky boosters such as Crocune and so if you really are worried about losing to them than I recommend bringing Garchomp or switching it out for Belly Drum Azumarill, you can also try Power-Up Punch > Earthquake on Kanga as this will let you set up and sweep the majority of teams. The only issue with this is that you have trouble with Ghost-types so you have to play accordingly if you see them at team preview. A small thing is that you need to remove the 4HP EVs from Blaziken as this will provide less damage from rocks (which are almost non existant) but more importantly will provide less LO damage. Sorry for the small rate as you already have pretty standard stuff here, like I said earlier Garchomp is your most interchangeable Pokemon on the team and so I would use that slot to switch in a Pokemon that can account for stuff you find yourself weak to, you don't always have to bring it its just there for when you need it.

Sorry for the late reply!

Power-up Punch > Earthquake seems fine. It hits TTar and Heatran hard and Sucker Punch still hits Aegislash / Gengar (sorta).

Are you sure the 4 HP EVs works that way? I think at level 100 Blaziken takes 30 HP per hit and level 50 15 HP regardless of where the 4 EVs go. I would need to run weird IVs to lower LO recoil. SR numbers are 4 EVs less than whatever HP number is divisible by 8 right? If so the 4 HP EVs still don't matter. I don't completely understand this stuff so if I'm wrong please explain :)

Garchomp is replaceable for sure but I would also like to keep Stealth Rocks on this team. Garchomp does have a LOT of utility and is really good in 6v6 and doubles. I can run Azumarill here but I'm looking for other options too.

So I did a bit more testing and I realized I get completely smashed by prankster Swagger. Suicune isn't actually all that bad since every single Pokemon on my team except Aegislash can beat it one on one, barring a burn. It's annoying but I have bigger threats to worry about.

Prankster Swagger fucks me unless I get lucky immediately. If it worth trying to counter this since it's entirely luck based anyway?

 

[Ares]

I mean there really isn't a viable way to counter swagger users as all of the Own Tempo mons aren't the greatest: Avalugg, Bergmite, Espurr, Glameow, Grumpig, Lickilicky, Lickitung, Lilligant, Lombre, Lotad, Ludicolo, Numel, Petilil, Purugly, Slowbro, Slowking, Slowpoke, Smeargle, Spinda, Spoink. As you can see only the slowking and slowbro would be slightly viable and i dont think it really worth it. Also seeing as this is a battlespot team rocks aren't to important with Garchomp as you don't switch too to much.

 

[Yamborski]

I need rocks on this team because I frequently play IRL friends 6v6. I know it limits my teambuilding a lot but most of my friends only just barely IV breed, if they do at all. I want to make this team as good as I can at playing 3v3, 6v6, and doubles all at the same time.

Fair point on Swagger + Twave BS. I guess I just have to get lucky or just slap Lum Berry on something.

I think I'll switch to 252 HP on Talonflame. At level 50 it has odd HP so I won't have to worry about rocks as much. Max HP gives Talonflame about 21% more bulk and way more HP to absorb recoil with. The only things I lose out on are Jolly Excadrill who I don't care about and Pinsir Quick Attack which doesn't even come close to a OHKO (Even at +2).

OR/AS is coming out. I don't think I'm defensively weak to any of the new Megas but is it worth it to drop Kangaskhan for M Salamence? M Kangaskhan is pretty much the best Pokemon in the game and wins against almost everything one on one but it gets smashed hard by ghosts while M Salamence has Intimidate and can completely sweep a team without much effort.

 

[Ares]

Can't really comment on ORAS as I have no experience with the meta, I assume you are on a cartridge so what you can do is switch out Garchomp when you are playing Battle Spot and then just grab it from your box when you are playing 6v6.

 

[Yamborski]

Part of the goal of this team is to have it be functional in 3v3 and 6v6 without any changes in the roster. I know that limits my team a little but... man switching a Pokemon out of my battle box... that takes at least 15 seconds. SR isn't actually a wasted space as long as I pay attention to my opponent's team. Even in 3v3 it deals a lot to stuff like Talonflame and Charizard and breaks sashes. In certain situations SR has been useful.

Aegislash is very good but would BD Azumarill fit over it? I don't really have a Mega Kangaskhan counter otherwise but the rest of my team fares okay against in one on one.

Blaziken can now learn Ice Punch I guess. - http://imgur.com/a/F2zaw Ice Punch > Knock Off?

Lastly maybe Crunch > Power Up Punch on Mega Kanga? I really hate worrying about random Ghost switch ins and Crunch has a 36% chance of lowering the enemy's defense... It's something!

Edit: Or perhaps Drain Punch on M Kanga. Kanga gets it in ORAS which would be nice to turn the tables on stuff like Ferrothorn or other M Kanga.

 

[Lucs99]

I think you handle Blaziken okay as long as you play well with Talonflame, or if you don't bring it never give it a chance to set up. You also beat bulky setup mons like Suicune and lol Shuckle well enough.

You look a little weak to fast Electric types. Manectric in particular. It can Thunderbolt everything for a 2HKO (even Kangaskhan) and if you bring Garchomp along even it can be OHKOed by HP Ice about half the time. Thundurus also might be a pain because if it gets lucky it can parahax its way through you. Maybe drop Rotom W for something? It seems like you're using it mostly as a status absorber and Talonflame counter but it doesn't do much else. I understand it's a very important pivot though.

Manectric / Thundurus
Blaziken
Talonflame
Status absorber / pivot
Crocune

I think these are the things you are worried about plus what Rotom does? Here are a couple bad ideas...

Choice Band Dragonite deals with all the offensive Pokemon. Outrage 2HKOs Suicune. If it burns on the first Scald you can at least hope for a 2HKO if the second attack is a crit (or force it to Rest, if nothing else). It easily handles Blaziken almost regardless of what it runs and can Extremespeed Talonflame to death. Manectric fails to KO with HP Ice but Earthquake OHKOs at -1 and Extremespeed easily 2HKOs if not intimidated.

But this plan falls apart because Dnite is not a status absorber and it breaks item clause. DD Lum Dnite also works although its a little less dangerous outruns. DD + Outrage + Extremespeed + Fire Punch maybe? This would cover all your issues and be simultaneously bulky, offensive, and have priority utility. If you run Lum Dnite just slap Focus Sash on Garchomp. The downside here is in 6v6 play you would be a little Stealth Rocks weak.

Belly Drum or Assault Vest Azumarill might work. While they don't do much to the fast Electrics... or Talonflame... or status... or crocune (Belly Drum might win)... they do handle Blaziken and give you an offensive option over Rotom W.

ANOTHER possible option is Lum Berry Dragon Dance Gyarados. Doesn't do much against Electrics (though at least Thundurus can't revenge kill it) but it has intimidate.

Running Mamoswine > Garchomp would give you coverage against Electrics at the cost of Garchomp's speed and sweeping ability.

---------------

Lastly you could simply not change anything major. Overall your team is extremely solid. If there was any one common threat that completely routed you I doubt you would reach the #1 spot on the ladder in the way that you did. Even things that give you trouble like Blaziken and Swagger you can kinda work around. I have some very small suggestions on item and EV changes.

Try 28 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 4 Special Defense / 220 Speed on Blaziken. Speed outruns Greninja at +1 and Scarf Garchomp at +2 while the added bulk boosts Blaziken's defenses by about 3%. The HP reaches 159 so you still take the same damage from Life Orb and Stealth Rocks that you did before while Blaziken also has slightly more HP to absorb Flare Blitzes. Better yet the HP is odd so you can survive two High Jump Kick misses (which won't ever happen). The bulk allows Blaziken to survive some weird random things like being 3HKOed by burned Dragonite's Outrage sometimes, tank a Thundurus or M Manectric's Thunderbolt with enough HP for three more attacks instead of two, having a sliiiight chance of surviving Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak from Aegislash, and making Clefable Moonblast almost a guaranteed 3HKO.

You can just run max HP / Defense / 4 Speed on Rotom Wash. What does 60 Speed outrun? Jolly Azumarill? 0 Speed Landorus? Your team has basically no fear of Azumarill as literally everything here can prevent it from belly Drumming and even if it does who cares, you have a ton of ways to beat it even then. Landorus? You want to be slower anyway so you can Volt Switch as it switches out, or burn the switch in. Max HP / Defense almost guarantees survival of Fake Out + Return on Adamant Mega Kangaskhan, Fake Out + Double Edge on Jolly, and even survival of Fake Out + Double Edge about half the time if it's Adamant. Rotom W will survive +2 Garchomp Outrage about 60% of the time, where without the extra bulk it was only 50%. 4 Speed beats other Rotom W and speed creeps 4 Speed Cresselia if you care, or just shove the last 4 into Special Defense.

Any reason you're running max speed on Kangaskhan? 124 Speed outruns Adamant Gyarados and Jolly Mega Tyranitar which are probably the fastest things you will see in that speed range. Try 132 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 124 Speed. 132 HP is the highest number that can be reached without 8 more EVs while the remaining 4 is put into defense to eat Aegislash Sacred Swords better.

I know you had Focus Sash on Garchomp before but have you considered bringing it back? Lum Berry is nice but Focus Sash can be used to sweep easier and also be used defensively against stuff like DD TTar, DD nite, or SD Blaziken (and fast electrics). Swagger teams are BS but I guess you can try and luck your way through them. Rotom W doesn't fare terribly, at least against Klefki and Kangaskhan has okay chances against Thundurus (Fake Out usually 2HKOs). Yeah Scald Burns and WoW is annoying but whatever, just Swords Dance again.

Is 92 Speed on Aegislash worth it just for Clefable? You can just put them into Attack or HP since going second is usually beneficial to Aegislash.

That's all I can think of. Nice team, hope I helped!

 

[Yamborski]

I think the Pokemon changes would be hard to do at this point. As you said yourself each change opens up another hole, though I could probably lose Garchomp if I had to lose SOMETHING. I'll test Mamo > Garchomp. I like Garchomp but priority Ice Shard could come in handy especially since Mega Salamence will be a thing. It also might help against Thundurus by forcing it to either switch out or risk the Swagger 50/50. It doesn't give me Swords Danced'd Outrages but I'll try it!

As for the EV changes all of those look great. I'll update the OP now!

Thank you!