Metagame BDSP PU (Grumpig Ban @ Post #71)

[AstilCodex]

Hey everyone! Now that we finally have a proper VR I wanted to make a brief collection of cores I've been using and have worked successfully. Not in any particular order. Prob will update this when I come with new ideas. ^^

Good Cores

LumiTang (<< click here for pokepast)

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Spoiler

Tangela @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed

Lumineon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 228 HP / 204 SpD / 76 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Defog
- Protect

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Atk / 224 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Protect

One of the cores I slap the most into any tier basically, well-rounded defensive core with enough offensiveness which I like. If you have seen me on discord already you'll know how I stan Tangela, it blankets the most common offensive mons like Dugtrio and Leafeon, it can even scout super-effective moves and regen out, Lumineon covers for Fire and Water-types and provides consistent Defog, Spdef is the one I like the most rn. Protect is a personal favorite for scouting moves. Golem is a good partner as it blankets wallbreakers that could overwhelm Tangela, like Luxray or Lo Rampardos on the switch and covers for Manectric. Warning: Stupid Glaceon weak, prob go with spdef Probo. Unfort going Camel over Golem doesn't change this matter.

Me vs my fren @5Dots using this core. Also showing Tangela Supremacy

Trapper Voltturn

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Spoiler

Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- X-Scissor
- Night Slash

Probopass @ Chople Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power
- Power Gem

Porygon2 @ Choice Specs
Ability: Download
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

Nice offensive core which summarizes in trapping opposing Probopass and other Steel to getting rid or weaken them for Ninjask and P2 to break. Ninjask is heavily underrated, CB is awesome and having god speed tier is very helpful as you don't need a scarfer. P2 clicks buttons and they break for each other really well. Ninjask obviously would like removal so Lumineon comes to mind here too.

Webs Core

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Spoiler

Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Air Slash / Bug Buzz
- Hydro Pump
- Quiver Dance

Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Head Smash
- Stealth Rock / Ice Beam


Glaceon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Shadow Ball
- Water Pulse / Sleep Talk

Misdreavus @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Hex
- Thunder Wave / Nasty Plot

Masquerain is actually pretty good. Scary wincon and somewhat consistent web setter. OHKOs Armaldo at +1. Glaceon and Rampardos love webs support and Misdreavus provides Spinblocking even though it only does it once against armaldo, it works enough. Dugtrio obviously is a great partner for these guys, I also like Kadabra on webs for preventing a reverse sweep in case webs have been removed.

Guess the scarfer <3

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Spoiler

Monferno @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Mach Punch

Manectric @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Switcheroo

Pinsir @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Self-explanatory offensive core, the way this is distributed is the way I like but this could be in any way tbh. Scarf Pinsir + Specs Mane and SD monke could be another possibility. These 3 together mean a lot of mind games for your opp and they put good offensive pressure together. Struggles with Dusclops a little so partners to cover that would appreciate it.

WhisBell

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Spoiler

Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Victreebel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Strength Sap

SubDD Whiscash is a scary wincon but gets completely shutted down by Tangela and Leafeon, Phys def Victreebel helps with that issue and it even tho this set is a worse Tangela it actually beats opposing Tangela which lets Whiscash perform better.

Steel Bait

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Spoiler

Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Poison Jab
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Altaria @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Roost

Altaria is an excellent wallbreaker that baits Steel-types for Muk to win late game, Dracos are very free into the tier and if you run into random Clefairy or defensive Wigglytuff, Muk walls them forever.

Basic offense

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Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock

Leafeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Blade

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Aqua Jet

Last but def not least, standard offensive core with very good speed tiers. SubSeed Leafeon is my fav set atm. Dugtrio 2hkos the whole tier by Clops and Tangela, and Special Floatzel goes in. Very basic and effective. I'd go AJ on Floatzel as 4th for Scarf Monferno and opp Duggy but Specs can work as well. If you really hate Tangela you can tech Sludge on Duggy. But don't do that please.

Hope this helps a little with teambuilding until we get samples going! See ya.

 

[TONE]

Hi again everybody! I stated a couple of days ago that the council was going to have a vote regarding the "broken" aspects of the tier and I would like to say that vote has been completed. Without further ado...


Pinsir has been quickbanned from BDSP PU by council vote!

Votes

Pinsir has been one of BDSP PU's most threatening pokemon due to how easily it snowballed games. Choice Scarf Moxie sets had the speed tier, coverage, and power to end games very quickly and the tier is just not equipped to handle switching into Stone Edge/Earthquake/Close Combat. It was always a guessing game with Pinsir, each of its moves had their clear switchins however, getting the 50/50 wrong cost you a pokemon. Pinsir's most reliable check is physically defensive Dusclops, which could switch into all of Pinsir's moves without any issue but that is only one good mon in the entire tier that actually doesn't mind switching in. Swords Dance sets were also very hard to handle defensively, since Pinsir had ample opportunity for setting up by feigning a Choice Scarf set then proceed to set up and practically have no switchins thanks to perfect coverage on Stone Edge and Earthquake.


Before the vote on Pinsir, we also had a vote to decide what action we would be taking. Everyone agreed to deal with Pinsir first but Dugtrio was one option we considered as well but we did not go that route. Dugtrio is also another potentially banworthy pokemon in the tier and we will continue to see if it might be a bit too much for the tier following any potential drops following the July tier shift.

Tagging Marty and Kris to implement this thanks

 

[Birdbrain103]

On the top of good cores I'd like to suggest

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A simple offensive core.

Ninjask U-Turns around and forces physically bulky responses, and Charizard can come in and nuke them with it's powerful special coverage.

Among U-Turn resists there are very few who can tank U-Turn, and many of them falter to Charizard's great special offense with a few exceptions like Muk and defensive variants of Camerupt and Wigglytuff, with the former two being rather rare.

Being an offensive core it needs a lot defensively, and defogging and pivoting from Lumineon is greatly appreciated as it also gives an answer to Floatzel who could raise many issues otherwise. It also benefits from Vibrava answering Dugtrio and defogging. Security against Manetric is especially needed as it is one of the only things in the tier faster than Ninjask so I've found Golem to be a good partner.

Something big about Golem is the fact that it encourages Manetric to Hard-Switch, or Trick away it's scarf.

Most players opt to trick away their scarf once they see golem, and when that happens it gives Ninjask a superior speed tier.

Ninjask and Zard sets

Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- X-Scissor
- Sleep Talk

FROM KANTOOOOOO (Charizard) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Focus Blast
- Roost

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Abomasnow moved from NU to PU
Articuno moved from NU to PU
Bellossom moved from NU to PU
Chimecho moved from NU to PU
Dodrio moved from NU to PU
Gorebyss moved from NU to PU
Kangaskhan moved from NU to PU
Kingler moved from NU to PU
Ludicolo moved from NU to PU
Magneton moved from NU to PU
Poliwrath moved from NU to PU
Rotom-Frost moved from NU to PU
Solrock moved from NU to PU
Volbeat moved from NU to PU
Weezing moved from NU to PU

This tier shift is an absolute game-changer IMO and I think a lot of this shit is gonna get the boot (Rotom-Frost, Kanga, Gorebyss, and maybe Ludicolo come to mind). Still though, who knows what'll happen.

A lot of these mons were top tier in NU so its a shock they even dropped. But I guess when a meta isn't played often.....

 

[TTK]

Rises: None
Drops: Abomasnow, Articuno, Bellossom, Chimecho, Dodrio, Gorebyss, Kangaskhan, Kingler, Ludicolo, Magneton, Poliwrath, Rotom-Frost, Solrock, Volbeat, Weezing

Obligatory council post but yeah, a whole lot of drops for the lower tiers and lots of work cut out for the council. I'm going to do a quick overview for each drop and yeah, we need to act soon.

: This is a cool addition I think. Easy screens might be problematic but we'll see.

: I can't see cuno being anything too good in the tier. Beating the bulky waters is alright I suppose.

: This is potentially too much for the tier once you consider that you can wear down its checks very easily. But it isn't as clearcut as some others that are easily quickban worthy.

: Definitely quickban this. Cosmic Power Stored Power sets is surprisingly too strong in a tier with like no darks.

: Dodrio is shaky on initial thoughts. It has raichu's speed tier but has no coverage and there are many flying resists common in the tier. If Jump Kick still existed Dodrio would be an easy quickban but we'll have to see how it goes.

: This needs no explanation of a quickban. Special version of Huntail which already dumpster trucked on the tier and even with Poliwrath dropping, Psychic still chunks water resists at +2 and only relevant scarfer faster is Mane. Yeah next.

: Kanga has like no solid defensive counterplay in this tier imo. It's a faster, bulkier Stantler, can hit ghosts (not too relevant but even harder to stop double edge). Probably an unhealthy presence in this tier.

: Poliwrath dropping will stop this somewhat but it's still a threat to 98% of the whole tier. Agility has no offensive counterplay and teams not utilising Poliwrath just lose anyway. Quickban.

: Broken PU mon number 3. What are the checks to Rain Dance 3 attacks? Spdef Pelipper. Quickban this.

: Not going to be overbearing at all. It will be decent I think.

: Healthy addition in this tier. Checking every rocker is a big thing for this, good bulk, even has wincon with sub bd.

: Nasty Plot looks like fun to face and trying to wall this also seems fun. We can adapt to this I think.

: The tier is saved from Dugtrio's terror.

: Idk what this thing is going to do but at least it won't be broken.

: Saved from Dugtrio and Leafeon.




One more thing to consider. Dugtrio was more than likely deserving of the chopping blocks pre-shifts but with the addition of probably good meta mons like Poliwrath, Weezing and Solrock in addition to the few checks Dugtrio had in the first place, more than likely we won't take action on this at this current time.

Enjoy the drops!!

 

[TTK]

Alright sorry for the wait everyone!


Abomasnow, Chimecho, Gorebyss, Kangaskhan, Kingler and Ludicolo have been quickbanned from BDSP PU effective immediately!

Votes

Tagging Marty and Kris to implement thanks.

These drops were honestly quite the unexpected. Firstly, Abomasnow's access to Aurora Veil puts the spotlight back on hyper-offence teams except they get even stronger than they were in alpha period. Pokemon like Rock Polish Rampardos and Belly Drum users like Magmar and Charizard just become near unstoppable under screens and Aboma sets them up too easily. If you're wondering why we ban Abomasnow instead of Aurora Veil, tiering policy essentially says "Banning the pokemon over the move/ability is priority". Chimecho is also a dangerous bulky wincon that essentially has zero consistent answers in this tier. Being able to prey on the bulky pokemon in this tier like Probopass and Lumineon, Chimecho has too easy a time of getting defensive boosts with Cosmic Power then breaking past everything with Stored Power due to our lack of good dark type pokemon.

Gorebyss is literally just a special attacking version of Huntail. We may have the likes of Poliwrath now but Gorebyss' coverage in Psychic still chunks the water immunes in the tier and it sweeps even easier than Huntail. Kangaskhan is a pokemon at first that could be potentially fine in this tier but a fast, bulky normal type with perfect coverage is a bit too much for this tier to handle since its only good check is Solrock and the tier lacks fighting types to even threaten out Kangaskhan.

Agility Kingler is faster than all our speed control options and at the minimum 2hkos the whole tier other than the newly dropped Poliwrath. Bulky grasses can still take on Kingler but Sheer Force boosted Life Orb Ice Beam still gets them into a position where teammates can deal with them afterwards and Ludicolo has a devastating Rain Dance 3 attacks set that is literally unwallable in the tier. For these reasons, these pokemon are banned.


Our watchlist right now is still looking at pokemon such as Charizard, Bellossom, Rotom-Frost; the latter two escaping the banhammer. Bellossom's sweeping potential with Quiver Dance is high but its lack of good coverage means there's a good number of mons in the tier that can on paper handle it before it gets too much. Examples of this are Muk, Charizard, Victreebel and Articuno. Rotom-Frost's perfect coverage in its STAB combination leaves us wondering "where's the switchins?" but it's held back by its speed tier and rocks weakness.

 

[5Dots]

Posting some thoughts on the new drops:

Pretty neat at doing a blend of offensive and defensive roles. Articuno has enough bulk to pull off a good Defog set in spite of its 4x weaknesses thanks to its great natural bulk and solid Speed tier, while also becoming a reasonable offensive Pokemon with Roost + 3 attacks. Appreciates how it can outspeed offensive Pokemon like Monferno, Arbok, and Poliwrath, though it still falls a bit short since Rotom formes and Charizard can still outpace it really easily. Not a top tier, but certainly a good choice.


I actually don’t think this is ban-worthy. Having to choose between Moonblast to deal with Altaria or Safeguard to deal with status is not really ideal. Even though it has powerful options like Strength Sap and Sleep Powder to cripple checks, its average stats hold it back from being devastating, which makes it really vulnerable to getting revenge killed even at +1. Don’t get me wrong, this is still a scary sweeper, but I feel in practice, Bellossom won’t be cleaning teams so easily without support.


This is just okay for me. In a tier where it faces lots of strong Normal-type competition (Regigigas, Pidgeot, Porygon2) and Rock-types like Probopass and Golem being everywhere, Dodrio is far from what it was in other old gens. Unless your opponent lets your Rock-type get damaged/KOed recklessly, it will have a lot of trouble making progress, since it relies entirely on Flying/Normal coverage to do its job. Moves like Lunge and Steel Wing don’t count). It has an okay utility movepool, though with how frail it is, it won’t often get the chance to use it. It has a really good Speed tier and power, and it has caught me off guard when I didn’t have a sturdy resist, so it can work decently with support.


An underrated gem that does well with both Choice items. Electric/Steel is great offensively when coupled with Analytic and a sky-high 120 SpA. Can function as a decent offensive check to Pokemon like Rotom-F and Leafeon, though its mediocre defenses prevent it from doing more. Still, it’s a welcome addition to specially offensive Pokemon.


Poliwrath is certainly one of the best mons both offensively and defensively. It can soft check many Pokemon like Monferno, Golem, Armaldo, Dugtrio, and Floatzel in one slot, and it has the physical bulk to prove so. Unlike Dusclops, Poliwrath is less passive when running RestTalk cycles, as Scald burns and Circle Throw mean that not only can offensive Pokemon like Leafeon and Rotom-F not switch in as safely, but it can also be really annoying to deal with the continuous shuffling around offensive teams. Offensively, it has a solid physical movepool with a way better special one. While Choice Band (and Choice Scarf, perhaps) sets offer more power, the special side is where i like to direct attention to. A STAB combination + Ice Beam is nigh-unresisted makes it tough to switch into, especially when combined with option like Protect and Encore to further disrupt the enemy team. Poliwrath easily makes for one of the most flexible Pokemon in the meta.

With a solid Speed tier, a stellar offensive typing, a great offensive and utility movepool, as well as a helpful Ground immunity, Rotom-F is one of the best Choice Scarf users and an excellent Nasty Plot sweeper in its own right. Aside from Whiscash, Camerupt, and Golem that still has Sturdy intact, all Ground-types can’t reliably deal with Volt Switch, as STAB Blizzard can force them out. Rotom-F has a lot of different set variety to choose from aside from Volt Switch and Blizzard: even though it can run Thunderbolt as its standard third move, Pain Split and Trick improve its matchup against bulkier teams, Will-O-Wisp provides emergency utility to fast physical sweepers, and Nasty Plot makes it a fearsome sweeper. Select counters like bulky Grumpig, Piloswine, and Seaking can annoy it, but the latter two threats face heavy competition from Ground- and Water-types in the builder and are therefore not easy to fit on teams.

From one great Levitate user to a good Levitate user, Solrock is a nice defensive Stealth Rock setter that has reliable recovery and Will-O-Wisp. Solrock, while it does have solid offenses with a decent offensive movepool and passable Speed, has to choose between either giving up STAB and getting walled by Charizard) or getting walled by Probopass and, to an extent, have a worse matchup against Glaceon. I think Solrock is a rock-solid pick with given team support, and is an improvement over the more offensive Lunatone, though it isn’t easy to fit over other Stealth Rocks setters since it doesn’t have the immediate power (Golem, Armaldo, Dugtrio) or other miscellaneous utility they provide (Probopass).

Probably the least welcomed of all drops, but not without merits. Despite a Stealth Rock weakness combined with the fact it can’t be a good weather setter anymore, Volbeat may still have utility as a deterrent to sweepers with Prankster Encore. While it can’t use Toxic that makes it a less effective sweeper, Thunder Wave cripple most of them outright and has decent longevity with bulk investment. While there’s better utility Pokemon, almost always going first is quite valuable, especially in a tier lacking viable Dark-types.

To finish off the great Levitate trio, Weezing will likely be a key centerpiece on stall, hazard-stacking and defensive builds. Terrific physical bulk when combined with rare access to Toxic Spikes (and Toxic to an extent) makes it very valuable throughout a game-to-game basis. Weezing has very good physical bulk and can be annoying to take down without smart offensive pressure, as exploiting its low special bulk can be tough and always has specially bulky teammates to fall back on. Weezing especially thrives when hazard control is so dire, as Armaldo can get worn down quickly and has mediocre bulk, not to mention having a Stealth Rock weakness. Articuno and Pelipper, while having recovery, can easily get forced out with good offensive pressure and both have Stealth Rock weaknesses to deal with. Lumineon has a Rocks neutrality but is the most passive of the four and can’t deal with Poliwrath very well.

 

[TTK]

Sorry about the wait everybody! Seems like everyone has been busy this past month or so but this should've been done earlier so without further ado...


Charizard has been quickbanned from BDSP PU via council vote! Tagging Kris and Marty to implement

Votes

Anyone that has been playing BDSP PU recently knows that Charizard is an incredibly straining pokemon in the current meta. The tier is just not equipped to handle the versatility of sets that this pokemon is able to run. Special sets hit incredibly hard off of base 109 Special Attack, with a near unresisted dual STAB in conjunction with Focus Blast, Charizard can inflict massive damage on the whole tier. You would usually run checks like Grumpig or special defense waters like Lumineon. The problem is that from team preview, you have no idea if it's the special set or not and a set like Substitute Belly Drum would make those checks irrelevant. Charizard's speed tier of 100 is also something that heavily contributes to how unhealthy it is. There are only a few consistent pokemon in the tier that can outspeed Charizard naturally and also threaten it out which include Floatzel, Dugtrio and Manectric. These 3 cannot even switch into Charizard reliably and they also have checks that are quite easy to fit on teams like the aforementioned Lumineon. For a pokemon that is incredibly hard to switch into, faster than most of the unboosted meta and practically has no checks for every single one of its sets, it is for these reasons that the council has decided to ban Charizard.

In terms of anything else to look out for, there isn't really much else that has had as much of an impact as Charizard. Dugtrio has solid checks in Poliwrath, Weezing and Solrock now so it's no longer the broken threat it was pre-July. Hopefully the meta is playable once again because Charizard was frankly a pain in the ass on the builder, having to run spdef Lumineon/Pelipper instead of physdef or having a Grumpig on every team wasn't fun.

 

[TTK]

Ok since I am unable to say without a doubt that a VR update will happen, I have been asked by some users to make my personal VR of the meta right now. I still think the meta is volatile asf and we need to ban Magneton, Frostom and Bellossom but anyway, I'll do a VR

S Rank:

S Rank

Rotom-Frost

S- Rank

Poliwrath

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Bellossom
Grumpig
Magneton
Porygon2

A Rank

Armaldo
Glaceon
Leafeon
Lumineon
Manectric
Muk
Ninetales
Victreebel

A- Rank

Dusclops
Golem
Floatzel
Jumpluff
Kadabra
Lumineon
Luxray
Monferno
Ninjask
Probopass
Regigigas
Tangela
Whiscash

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Altaria
Arbok
Camerupt
Dugtrio
Gabite
Glalie
Piloswine
Rampardos
Seaking
Solrock
Weezing

B Rank

Articuno
Dodrio
Golduck
Lickilicky
Kecleon
Machoke
Magmar
Marowak
Masquerain
Misdreavus
Pelipper
Rapidash
Regice
Relicanth
Roselia
Rotom-Fan
Stantler
Wormadam-Trash

B- Rank

Butterfree
Combusken
Flareon
Kricketune
Meganium
Noctowl
Shuckle
Staryu
Volbeat
Wigglytuff

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Ampharos
Banette
Corsola
Mawile
Mothim
Politoed
Purugly
Raticate
Slaking

C Rank

Fearow
Lunatone
Murkrow
Octillery
Persian
Pikachu
Wartortle

C- Rank

Chatot
Beedrill
Dragonair
Dustox
Electabuzz
Gastly
Girafarig
Seviper

Rises
A to A+ : Grumpig has now established itself as one of the meta's most defining pokemon thanks to the meta shifts of Poliwrath becoming a top threat and also checking some of the best mons in the tier like Muk and Probopass. Grumpig's special defence stat, which helped it check Charizard, is also good at checking new threats like Magneton, Rotom Frost and old threats like Ninetales and Victreebel. Its utility with Thunder Wave and access to Nasty Plot also makes it the threatening pokemon to wall defensively. Definitely deserves the rise.

New to S: In my opinion, this is PU's first S rank pokemon, even better than Dugtrio was pre July drops. Rotom Frost's perfect coverage in dual STAB makes it extremely threatening in the tier. Either it just spams Volt Switch or it sub nasty plots and clicks Blizzard to kill most things in the tier. Even with its rock weakness inhibiting its switchin opportunities, the way Rotom-Frost enables Volt-turn teams with Magneton makes for an annoying teambuilding experience, forcing the few grounds that actually handle it to be a consideration on every team like Piloswine and Camerupt, the latter still does not resist Blizzard and has no reliable recovery. Honestly, this pokemon should be banned but it's for sure the best pokemon in the tier.

New to S-: When Rotom-Frost eventually leaves this tier one day alongside Magneton and Bellossom, Poliwrath would easily be the S rank PU pokemon it should be but for sure it's easily S-. The versatility and utility this pokemon offers is unmatched in this meta right now. It's just extremely splashable and fits a huge number of roles. It can be your bulky pokemon or your offensive belly drum pokemon or just run defensive circle throw with spikes support. There isn't really a reason why you shouldn't run Poliwrath on any PU team, even with Frostom + Magneton screwing most defensive options in this tier up.

New to A+: In a similar vein to Rotom-Frost, Magneton hits hard and has the defensive typing unlike Rotom-Frost to switch in repeatedly to pokemon like Leafeon, Victreebel and Lumineon. What makes Magneton so good is the presence of Rotom-Frost, pairing these two together often leaves a team incredibly open to get voltturned on, even with the grounds in the tier since there is no single ground that is able to check both at the same time. Magneton is immediately shut down by Camerupt and Whiscash yet Rotom-Frost can beat those with Blizzard. Rotom-Frost is checked by Piloswine and Magneton checks that. Their only real check is Seaking, which I'll talk about soon but these two together is just an unhealthy component of the meta and it makes teambuilding a real pain in the ass.

New to A+: Bellossom is PU's best sweeper at the moment because it's pretty easy to set up and it's incredibly bulky at that. The power level is low enough for Bellossom to set up without much difficulty. You know it's rough when Bellossom can 1v1 set up on Muk just because of Safeguard + Strength Sap so you're unable to be poisoned and Muk does less damage over all. When Zard was here, it didn't show it was that broken but since the premier fire type has left the tier, Bellossom has a good time setting up and it's very easy to win games with it if you don't have a poison type.

B+ to A: Big jump I know but Ninetales is the premier fire now since the Charizard ban and it shares some very good qualities that Zard did. It has the same speed tier of 100, which is faster than a good chunk of the meta and it has access to Nasty Plot, which boosts its offensive potential. The combination of Fire Blast + Energy Ball + Dark Pulse hits the entire tier at least neutrally and it's hard to wall once it has a Nasty Plot up because water types lose to Energy Ball at +2. Ninetales also being able to check Magneton, Rotom-Frost, Bellossom and Poliwrath are big points for its use and it has few offensive checks. It's only Floatzel and Dugtrio, which have obviously gotten worse over the meta shifts. Overall, Ninetales is one of the best pokemon in the tier.

A- to A: Not much has changed for Muk, it's just that its checks have gotten worse so logically, it should be better right? The frequency of Poliwrath has made pokemon like Probopass and Golem worse. You could say Grumpig being good puts a thorn in Muk's side but also having the ability of somewhat pressuring Bellossom and having good special bulk to blanket check Rotom-Frost, Ninetales and Victreebel make Muk a desirable pokemon to have on teams. Curse is also one of the best set up sweepers in the tier.

B+ to A-: I've made it abundantly clear that Voltturn is very destructive in this tier. Ninjask also facilitates this playstyle thanks to its massive speed tier and lack of punish for just spamming U-turn a game. Ninjask's checks have also been pressured in recent times thanks again to Poliwrath and Grumpig becoming so common, which also helps out Ninjask in turn since the latter drops to U-turn. The only reason I'm not putting Ninjask higher is because of rocks but my opinion regarding hazards is mixed. Hazard setters overall are worse and it's not hard to keep rocks up but Lumineon is worse now, which is by far still the most consistent hazard remover in this tier.

B to A-: Luxray is also another mon that benefits from a lot now. I think Luxray is the best physical breaker the tier has to offer right now. Electric is just too good rn, grounds are on the decline thanks to Poliwrath and Rotom-Frost and there isn't really anything that wants to switch into Guts boosted Facade. Also being able to check Poliwrath and Magneton and somewhat soft checking Rotom-Frost, Luxray clearly needs the rise.

B- to B+: Checking our two broken electrics (Rotom somewhat) automatically makes Camel much more desirable. It's often being quite a middling pokemon in this meta due to just being a worse option as a rocker and the best pokemon across this tier like the bulky waters and Dugtrio have always given it a hard time. The other waters becoming worse thanks to Poliwrath is a plus, yet Poliwrath still checks this mon but it's easy to have a water check in this meta: another Poliwrath, Bellossom and the electrics. Less pressure for Camerupt and it's still a mon that has decent bulk and hazards.

B to B+: The hazard removal game has always been a somewhat tedious process but Glalie appreciates recent meta developments. Its Ice/Ground coverage with Freeze Dry and Earthquake have always been good in this meta but it has an easier time spiking than ever before. Being a fast Magneton check is a positive, being able to switch into Blizzard from Frostom is a positive and checking every removal option in the tier is a massive positive in addition to checking Poliwrath with Freeze Dry. Its obvious problems just stem from a lack of defensive utility outside of checking ice, which is good rn for sure but still leaves smth more to be desired.

B to B+: Any ground type that can check either Frostom or Magneton gets better and in the case of Piloswine, it's the former. Thick Fat allows Piloswine to gain an Ice resistance so it's one of 3 pokemon that can resist Frostom's STAB, alongside Seaking and Frostom itself lmao. It's also a rocker that carries Ice/Ground coverage as its STAB, which I said on Glalie is incredibly good in this meta plus having Ice Shard to revenge kill things like Ninjask, Jumpluff and Victreebel, make Piloswine rise.

C to B+: Probably the biggest jump of all the rises, if anyone wants to know when Seaking actually gets good in a metagame, look no further than ORAS PU and that is because of one pokemon, Rotom-Frost. Seaking's Lightning Rod comes in clutch when checking electric types and its low ranking before was for this same niche, it was just that it wasn't really needed when the grounds were in a much better position but Magneton + Rotom-Frost is overall giving them a hard time so Seaking is here. That's all it does really, it doesn't have much to offer other than this.

New to B+: Solrock alongside Weezing and Poliwrath saved PU from the reign of Dugtrio but at the same time, it couldn't really cement itself of something super duper good right now. Poliwrath is everywhere, it fights for a psychic slot with Grumpig and its typing is just riddled with weaknesses that are just too common right now. It still sets rocks, has reliable recovery and can burn physical attackers like Arbok, Piloswine and Marowak, which it checks incredibly well. It was a nice addition to the tier but the meta does not favour it at all at this current time.

New to B+: The same thing that I said about Solrock can be applied to Weezing too outside of Weezing not having common weaknesses like Solrock does. It does have Toxic Spikes at its disposal and is one of the tier's best physically defensive walls. It's just often too passive and Toxic Spikes aren't particularly too strong in the meta right now.

New to B: Articuno has not impressed me at all. I've hardly seen it (this isn't only because of the lack of games that are being played) but it just doesn't have too much going for it. It's good at checking the grasses and Poliwrath but outside of that, it's electric weak and has a x4 weakness to rocks. Just a high risk low reward pokemon.

New to B: Dodrio is also something I've been quite disappointed by. If it had Jump Kick, it would have never reached this tier but being hard walled by rock and steel types just sucks for it and the problem is, it has qualities that could be considered somewhat strong for PU. High attack, Raichu level speed, its coverage is just ass so it doesn't seem as threatening whatsoever. If the tier had no rock or steels, Dodrio would have a field day.

C to B: Magmar definitely has a increased niche now going forward. It's a fire type and is able to check our two usual electric suspects. It's not Ninetales fast but still holds a good speed tier and is much stronger than Ninetales. Magmar also ends up being slightly more versatile thanks to a Belly Drum set which is actually pretty good under the right circumstances.

New to B-: Volbeat is also another do nothing pokemon that offers very little overall to the meta. Weather rocks are banned so weather is just weaker in this tier and it only has Prankster T wave it can really pull off but how much do you really need that on your team? It does have Encore to stop set up sweepers but still, overall just an average mon.

C to C+: Raticate is probably slightly better but suffers worse from the Dodrio problem. It's better than everything in C.

C to C+: The same applies to Slaking but Slaking does not suffer with coverage problems, Slaking suffers from Slaking problems, namely Truant. It has the speed tier and definitely the damage output but a lot can take advantage of it so it stays near the bottom of the viability rankings.

Drops

A+ to A: If anyone has played the meta recently, you can just feel that Leafeon has gotten worse. Pre July drops, Leafeon was easily top 5 in the meta and for a time, I considered this mon potentially too powerful for the tier. Now with these meta shifts, you'd think Leafeon should have a decent time, Poliwrath is everywhere, the speed tier is still one of the best in the tier but there's mons that pressure Leafeon more now. Weezing being the biggest culprit, alongside bulky p2 becoming a thing and also Ninetales.

A to A-: Grounds not named Whiscash or Piloswine or Camerupt are just worse now thanks to the electrics screwing them over plus Poliwrath being a thing. Suicide lead Golem is still a fantastic set and it can never really turn bad, it's just now that any other Golem set is just not worth running anymore because it's not good in this meta.

A to A-: I still would like to entertain the idea that Floatzel is still quite good but it isn't the premier water anymore and Poliwrath exasperates Floatzel's problems of being dead weight vs bulky waters. The speed tier is still there but you're much less inclined to use it in this volatile meta thanks to broken electrics.

A+ to A-: Probopass suffers from Poliwrath being good. It's still one of the best rockers in the tier and its typing is still solid defensively.

B+ to B: Never really saw much reason to run this in the first place honestly. On paper, it still sounds alright but that's all it is. Alright.

A+ to B+: PU's previous most broken pokemon has been knocked down by heavily by recent developments such as Poliwrath, Weezing and Solrock. These mons came at such a convenient time since Dugtrio was pretty much the banworthy threat. It can still do work since it's fast and hits hard but has a much harder time.

A- to B+: Gabite is still somewhat good but Dugtrio's checks and Gabite's checks are practically the same. Not to mention Gabite is slower and weaker.

A- to B: Pelipper isn't something I would want to run now at all to be honest. Lumineon is still the superior defogger, electric spam everywhere. If I wanted to use Pelipper, Agility 2 attacks Roost would be cool but its value in the meta has definitely taken a massive hit.

B+ to B: Rotom-Fan is near the bottom of what electrics I would like to use. It still isn't a preferred pick over Manectric, which they've both been PU since the start, Rotom-Frost shares the same dex number and it's broken and Magneton has superior defensive utility. Easiest drop of my life.

B+ to B: Once again, Poliwrath + electric spam has made this pokemon worse. You have to run Zen Headbutt and still lose to Poliwrath. Rampardos has the same issue, except Zen Headbutt does damage because of Sheer Force and possesses significant increase of strength and a slightly higher speed tier.

B to B-: In my mind, this mon is still worth trying. Its decently fast, Analytic boosted attacks hit badly and spinning is good in this tier.

C+ to UR: Useless pokemon in this meta. Hard walled by Poliwrath.

B to C+: Trapped by Magneton? Trapped by Probopass? Has no special bulk to speak of?

B- to C+: Literally worse Poliwrath.

C to UR: If you haven't noticed, most water types are not doing too hot rn. Croconaw is no different.

C to C-: Chatot is so close to being unranked but it's still has a niche.

C to UR: I don't think there's ever been a meta where both Volbeat and Illumise have been ranked on the VR. BDSP PU will not be the first.

C+ to C-: Worse Misdreavus and always has been. Its dual STAB combination keeps it here but it's the last ghost I would try to run in this meta.

C- to UR: I don't believe I should explain why Magcargo is going unranked.

C- to UR: Same applies to Vibrava. This mon should've not been ranked in the first place kek.

 

[5Dots]

thoughts on PU even without ladder!

Tier list

S Rank:
Grumpig
Poliwrath
Rotom-Frost

A Rank:

A+

Bellossom
Magneton
Porygon2

A

Armaldo
Golem
Leafeon
Lumineon
Manectric
Muk
Victreebel

A-

Dugtrio
Dusclops
Glaceon
Floatzel
Jumpluff
Lumineon
Monferno
Ninetales
Probopass
Rapidash
Regigigas
Solrock
Tangela
Weezing
Whiscash

B Rank:

B+

Articuno
Camerupt
Dodrio
Gabite
Glalie
Kadabra
Luxray
Ninjask
Pelipper
Piloswine
Rampardos
Roselia

B

Altaria
Arbok
Lickilicky
Kecleon
Machoke
Marowak
Masquerain
Misdreavus
Regice
Relicanth
Seaking
Stantler
Wormadam-Trash

B-

Butterfree
Combusken
Kricketune
Magmar
Meganium
Purugly
Rotom-Fan
Shuckle
Volbeat
Wigglytuff

C Rank:

C+

Ampharos
Banette
Corsola
Golduck
lapras
Mawile
Noctowl
Politoed
Raticate
Slaking

C
Flareon
Lunatone
Murkrow
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Staryu
Wartortle

C-

Chatot
Dragonair
Dustox
Electabuzz
Mothim

Rotom-Frost is perhaps the best offensive mon in the tier. Can generate infinite momentum against everything aside from Piloswine, Seaking, and the (unviable) Shedinja. It’s an elite scarfer, nasty plot sweeper and pivot in general. The loss of Pain Split, Z-Moves, and Hidden Power reduces its set diversity but it can still run multiple moves extremely well. Trick disrupts checks and passive walls like Dusclops while Will-O-Wisp can cripple physical attackers like Regigigas and Muk, inclining them to use Rest sooner. Rotom-F doesn’t fit well on stall or heavily defensive teams, but in most standard and offense builds, it’s an excellent fit.

A sleeper pick, but I would consider it to be on par with Ninetales: Unlike Ninetales, Dash has recovery and has Ground coverage with High Horsepower. This gives it a better Probopass matchup, and with said recovery, can afford to be more utility-based with Wisp and Flame Body. Physical attackers like Jumpluff and Gabite will have a more difficult time dealing with it than Ninetales in comparison.

If I want a Pokemon that provides insurance against sweeps, Volbeat’s great utility movepool with Thunder Wave and Encore alongside Prankster makes it useful. There’s a good number of Mons where I’d consider using this to stop (bellossom, Muk, Whiscash), so it’s not limited to a niche group of Pokemon. Even if it’s weak against Stealth Rock and has little offensive presence, it still does its job very well. The dearth in Dark-types also make Prankster even more difficult to stop.

While probably fine on its own, Golduck has little merit to use over Floatzel due to its worse Speed and the lack of nice moves like Aqua Jet and Switcheroo. Encore and Rain Dance may be nice to annoy slower Pokemon or set up, but Volbeat and Politoed do Encore shenanigans better and Rain Dance is hard to set up due to its mediocre bulk. Even if Floatzel is taken out of the picture, it still has to compete with a wide range of Water-types like Poliwrath, Politoed, Lapras, and Seaking. It doesn’t have any useful abilities and is just about as generic of a Water-type as Politoed is, which is unfortunate.

May post more thoughts later

 

[TTK]

Quick update here before the Send Off Tournament, we won't be able to get samples or the VR update before the tour starts but if anyone wants to have some teams, I'll dump some here and the council will be sorting those out during the run of the tournament. If you do want to have a go at teambuilding and need a vr of sorts, just look at my personal VR above or just click here.

Team Dump (click on sprites for importable)

Electric Spam + NP Grumpig
Guts Luxray Bulky Offence
inFAMOUS Rampardos Webs
Ninjask + Rotom-Frost VoltTurn

 

[AstilCodex]

So with BDSP revamping, quick Announcement for PU!

Magneton and Rotom-Frost have been quickbanned from BDSP PU via council Vote.

Votes

From the moment they dropped to PU, Rotom-frost and Magneton had little to no counterplay in the tier, making an oppresive force in teambuilding when checking these powerful electric-types, as you couldn't blanket one without being weak to the other. For those who played PU in the last meta, it was obvious that these two were too much for the tier to handle. Therefore, with the new announcement, council has decided to take action and ban them instantly.

We still looking out for Bellossom. Stay tuned!

 

[Lalaya]

(tagging Kris and Marty myself because I'm a goofball and didn't realize it was needed)

 

[ExiDudi]

So with BDSP revamping, quick Announcement for PU!

Magneton and Rotom-Frost have been quickbanned from BDSP PU via council Vote.

Votes

View attachment 491708

From the moment they dropped to PU, Rotom-frost and Magneton had little to no counterplay in the tier, making an oppresive force in teambuilding when checking these powerful electric-types, as you couldn't blanket one without being weak to the other. For those who played PU in the last meta, it was obvious that these two were too much for the tier to handle. Therefore, with the new announcement, council has decided to take action and ban them instantly.

We still looking out for Bellossom. Stay tuned!

Okay so first of all: great, thanks. This was needed. Now about bellosom, I really don't think it's banworthy. Muk is still one of the best mons in the tier and is pretty decent at checking it. Sleep into qd is very annoying, I agree but it's also not like bellosom is invincible before setting up. Especially monferno can abuse it's presence (after something has been slept). In my experience Glaceon also was half decent at checking it but I'll admit having it switch into bellosom is especially unreliable with rocks

 

[AstilCodex]

Well well, I wanted to write for this now that we're getting somewhere. But it feels like starting from scratch so Idk how long this post will be. But Imma divide in 3 big chunky parts (Tbh I divide all my posts in chapters):

1. Personal VR
2. Good Cores / Sample Teams (My teams tbf)
3. Bellossom TED talk

Hopefully with this I can make an approach to the tier's metagame and see more activity, battles and discussion.

1. Personal VR
VR is based on my previous experience with the meta as well as some games played down the line after the electric guys ban. This list isn't extremely exhaustive and I will explain some hot takes or odd placement if needed. (Higher ranks up until B+ will be ordered by viability in the same tier)

Post doing VR: I actually didn't explain any placement lmao, but if you want me to divulge on any just quote the post ^^

S Rank:

S Rank
None!

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Poliwrath
Bellossom
Porygon2
Grumpig

A Rank
Monferno
Glaceon
Victreebel
Muk
Armaldo
Dusclops
Tangela
Manectric
Ninetales
Golem

A- Rank

Leafeon
Kadabra
Altaria
Lumineon
Articuno
Weezing
Probopass
Jumpluff
Whiscash
Regigigas
Rampardos

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Luxray
Solrock
Glalie
Roselia
Rapidash
Ninjask
Floatzel
Misdreavus
Dugtrio
Pelipper
Dodrio
Wormadam-Trash
Rotom-Fan

B Rank

Flareon
Piloswine
Masquerain
Marowak
Regice
Relicanth
Stantler
Machoke
Noctowl
Butterfree
Wigglytuff

B- Rank

Meganium
Shuckle
Combusken
Staryu
Banette
Raticate

C Rank

Shedinja
Slaking
Gastly
Electabuzz
Wartortle
Pikachu
Illumise

2. Good Cores / Sample Teams (My teams tbf)

Altaria BO << (Click for team)

This is a basic BO I have that still works in the current meta. Dragon + Fire has virtually no switch-ins so Altaria is a potent breaker in the tier. Lumineon and Golem form a solid core that is hindered by Grass-types but those are handled by Curse Muk. Manectric acts as Speed Control and utility. SubSD Leafeon avoids status and Strength Sap. You can also go Leech Seed Over Double-Edge On Leafeon but I like winning the 1v1 against opposing Leaf and Bello if it becomes an issue.

Guts Luxray

Team based around Luxray as the main breaker with a solid defensive backbone and Ninetales as the core sweeper. Toxic Roselia beats Bellossom unless Safeguard, and since this Grass is neutral to ground moves, Solrock patches it well by switching in Pokemon like Golem and Dugtrio. Poliwrath is such a good glue for the FWG, coming on basically any Water-type including itself. Pelipper provides the removal and fixes MU against CB Monferno, also creates a nice Voltturn with Lux, Hurricane over Scald for Poliwrath.

P2 Stack

Porygon2 is one of the best Pokemon in the tier, with great coverage, bulk and access to Recover. Its a great starting point to build a balance team. This team relies on hazards to get going. Specs Glalie can take out its item quickly and stack up hazards. Armaldo acts as role compression with removal and setter. Dusclops + Flareon is a fantastic defensive core. Dusclops is basically inmortal with Wish support, which Flareon provides and goes well against Ninetales, Bellossom and Glaceon with its great Special Bulk. Jumpluff has the speed advantage and can be a real nuisance with Sleep + Strength combination with its high speed. Trace is the preferred ability on P2 which allows it to come on Manectric to stop a potential Voltturn Vortex.

Bellossom + Dodrio Offense

Lol Cuno sprite is too big. Bellossom is definetly a threat in the PU metagame. I made this offensive team to have a past paced team that didn't rely completely on Bellossom as a wincon, having too potent breakers in CB Monferno and Specs Cuno. Articuno has access to U-turn and Speed advantage over Glaceon in this case so I chose it. Armaldo is such a good role compression mon giving my Ground-type free to not be the SR setter.
Dodrio is a menace when Probo or Golem are out of the way, and this team has plenty of tools to deal with team. Sadly, Dodrio doesn't have U-turn so I went with an SD set. Bellossom speed is to outrun Leafeon at +1.

Ninjask Voltturn

Last team I have to share is one that's from the old meta but still works perfectly. Its centred around CB Ninjask which has an insane speed tier and Strong U-turns. Trapper probo takes out opposing Probo which enables Muk, P2 and Ninjask to do massive work. Lumineon is the hazard removal and water check whereas Tangela is incredible at blanketing Ground, Rock and Grass-types and taking advantage of Regen since you will switch constantly with this team. P2 set is an Agility Sweeper set which can also be changed to Specs but I like having Recover on it.


3. Bellossom TED talk

To end my essay I wanna give my thoughts on she-dancer and why it didn't get the cut in the previous ban with the electric guys. At least for my part.

As you may have noticed, all of the teams I gave have at least one answer to deal with Bellossom, rather with offensive pressure or certain checks/counters, like Flareon, Muk or Roselia. Overall I think Bello presence is mildly opressive as you need to take it into consideration when building, but Bello itself doesn't negate any playstyle nor does make the metagame unhealthy. The answers Bellossom has are already good pokemon in the tier.


All these previous pokemon can handle Bellossom, rather offensive or defensively, and are relatively easy to have on a team. Of course, Bellossom can beat some of them with certain conditions like Sleep turns. Safeguard, and Hazards, but that say that Bello requires proper positioning and skill to set for a sweep.

Big post I like writing. See y'all ^^

 

[yonitet]

Hope I can get this out before we hopefully get PU grand slam. Boutta whip out some pretty strong facts and opinions so strap in and enjoy the chaos.

REVERT PU TO PRE-DROPS META​

PU has been in a pretty bad state ever since the drops from NU; that much is known. The council has thankfully banned a large majority of the problematic threats dropped from NU, but I believe that more should be done. Pre drops PU was one of the best tiers BDSP had to offer, and was also one of the healthiest metas on top of that.
Sadly, due to a lack of ladder activity in NU, almost half the bloody tier fell into PU causing a huge disruption in the balance. I commend the council for dealing with this issue as well as they have, but I believe that some clean up work is still required to fix the meta before tournaments go live.

tbf I am slightly overexaggerating by saying 'simply revert the meta', but it made you read this far :3

Public Enemy #1: smelly belly

It is no secret that Bellossom is one of the scariest threats in PU. Grass is an amazing STAB in the tier where the most common steel type is Probopass, who is neutral to grass. Bellossom has phenomenal bulk for the tier, made even more effective by it's access to several different healing methods..

"but PU has several excellent poison types" you might say. "Muk and Arbok both wall it" you may say.
​

Yet despite the prevalence of poison types in the tier, Bellossom still finds no hardship in setting up.
With Strength Sap and Sleep Powder, Bellossom can easily cheese it's way through even these hard counters, who may I remind you; have no healing, are neutral to stealth rocks, take damage from spikes, and can't effectively 1v1 Bellossom due to Strength Sap's attack lowering properties. Although niche, Bellossom can also use moves like Safeguard to protect it from last ditch efforts from the poisons to get status on it.
All of these support options are of course, backed up by Quiver Dance. Quiver Dance is the hallmark of Blossom's sets. All of these setup options make it way too easy for Bellossom to sweep teams in a moment's notice. Everything that can revenge kill Bellossom at +1 speed and special attack, cannot safely switch into it. Choice Scarf Monferno does not enjoy taking a boosted Giga Drain, let alone a Sleep Powder or Sludge Bomb. Due to the abusable nature of lower tier's flying and fire types, which are generally all weak to stealth rocks, Bellossom is easily capable of overtaking games without even trying to.
I know this argument isn't valid, but Bellossom was also one of the most used threats in NU, yet somehow fell (thanks nu )


TLDR Bellossom sets up way too easily in front of too much of the meta, has great bulk and power due to PU's lower standards, and has way too many ways to cheese through it's intended counters like the poisons.

Overall, I believe that Bellossom should be banned from PU if the tier is to maintain it's competitive integrity for the upcoming tournament.

If this post gets enough attention I might do a post on Public Enemy #2: poli rolli

 

[latios777]

2. Good Cores / Sample Teams (My teams tbf)

Altaria BO << (Click for team)

This is a basic BO I have that still works in the current meta. Dragon + Fire has virtually no switch-ins so Altaria is a potent breaker in the tier. Lumineon and Golem form a solid core that is hindered by Grass-types but those are handled by Curse Muk. Manectric acts as Speed Control and utility. SubSD Leafeon avoids status and Strength Sap. You can also go Leech Seed Over Double-Edge On Leafeon but I like winning the 1v1 against opposing Leaf and Bello if it becomes an issue.

Guts Luxray

Team based around Luxray as the main breaker with a solid defensive backbone and Ninetales as the core sweeper. Toxic Roselia beats Bellossom unless Safeguard, and since this Grass is neutral to ground moves, Solrock patches it well by switching in Pokemon like Golem and Dugtrio. Poliwrath is such a good glue for the FWG, coming on basically any Water-type including itself. Pelipper provides the removal and fixes MU against CB Monferno, also creates a nice Voltturn with Lux, Hurricane over Scald for Poliwrath.

P2 Stack

Porygon2 is one of the best Pokemon in the tier, with great coverage, bulk and access to Recover. Its a great starting point to build a balance team. This team relies on hazards to get going. Specs Glalie can take out its item quickly and stack up hazards. Armaldo acts as role compression with removal and setter. Dusclops + Flareon is a fantastic defensive core. Dusclops is basically inmortal with Wish support, which Flareon provides and goes well against Ninetales, Bellossom and Glaceon with its great Special Bulk. Jumpluff has the speed advantage and can be a real nuisance with Sleep + Strength combination with its high speed. Trace is the preferred ability on P2 which allows it to come on Manectric to stop a potential Voltturn Vortex.

Bellossom + Dodrio Offense

Lol Cuno sprite is too big. Bellossom is definetly a threat in the PU metagame. I made this offensive team to have a past paced team that didn't rely completely on Bellossom as a wincon, having too potent breakers in CB Monferno and Specs Cuno. Articuno has access to U-turn and Speed advantage over Glaceon in this case so I chose it. Armaldo is such a good role compression mon giving my Ground-type free to not be the SR setter.
Dodrio is a menace when Probo or Golem are out of the way, and this team has plenty of tools to deal with team. Sadly, Dodrio doesn't have U-turn so I went with an SD set. Bellossom speed is to outrun Leafeon at +1.

Ninjask Voltturn

Last team I have to share is one that's from the old meta but still works perfectly. Its centred around CB Ninjask which has an insane speed tier and Strong U-turns. Trapper probo takes out opposing Probo which enables Muk, P2 and Ninjask to do massive work. Lumineon is the hazard removal and water check whereas Tangela is incredible at blanketing Ground, Rock and Grass-types and taking advantage of Regen since you will switch constantly with this team. P2 set is an Agility Sweeper set which can also be changed to Specs but I like having Recover on it.

Armaldo @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 96 SpD / 164 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

You now hit 242 sdef 167 speed and 353 HP. (248 hp because you gain the jump in sdef gaining an extra point).

With jolly and your evs is 234 sdef 167 speed and 354 hp.


Golem in team 1 can be impish and reajusting evs for better results too.

Good teams, thanks for share¡¡¡¡

 

[AstilCodex]

Armaldo @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 96 SpD / 164 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

You now hit 242 sdef 167 speed and 353 HP. (248 hp because you gain the jump in sdef gaining an extra point).

With jolly and your evs is 234 sdef 167 speed and 354 hp.


Golem in team 1 can be impish and reajusting evs for better results too.

Good teams, thanks for share¡¡¡¡

Didnt know they werent optimized, oops.
Thanks for that!

 

[AstilCodex]

I'm coming back to my personal thread to address some thoughts I've had since the end of Grand Slam and now some new ones that have been popping out with BDSPPL, seen back some gaming in BDSPPL have made me want to write my thoughts on potential problems that are:

On my radar

​

Grumpig in the tier has been a dominant force since way back last year, but with other more threatening Pokemon at the time running around like and its presence was rather underlooked. Now with the current PL ongoing I want to address why I envision this mon as a problem. Its coverage consistent of Psychic, Shadow Ball and Focus Blast its unresisted in the tier, pairing with its natural bulk and decently fast Speed for this tier standards. Its capable of running a variety of sets like Specs, Scarf in conjunction with Trick to cripple walls, Nasty Plot and the recent sets that have been popping up are the bulky Calm Mind ones since you really only need Shadow Ball for opposing Grumpig. There's really nothing that likes to come into this thing by Spdef and and as said before, opposing

​

Bellossom has been a deadly setup sweeper and presence since it dropped a while ago. It avoided the quickban back then as council found it manageable in some capacity. Its usual defensive counterplay still narrowed to some Pokemon that though are viable on its own, they can still lose in some scenarios. Defensively, and are the best answers, but these Pokemon can get overhwhelmed easily as they perform multiple roles and hazards, if they are kept low enough Bellossom can burst through and sweep anyway. Even arguably the best defensive answer can lose to Strength Sap + Safeguard and previous chip damage. Offensively and can burst through with sheer power or outsetup in front of them. Other potential checks like and are less viable and situational.

​

Lastly, Chatot got a recent buff being one of the few Pokemon that recieved a move now compatible thanks to HOME. Boomburst makes Chatot a super strong wallbreaker (simliar SpA than Exploud) with very little counterplay and has already won games in BDSPPL w4 which was the week it became available. Defensive counterplay is narrowed to which can get trapped by itself for Chatot to roam free, and some other answers like Spdef and . Other potential defensive answers like ghost types such as or and suffer from Specs Chatter and its confusion chance or others like are merely viable. On the other hand Chatot its very frail and easily revenge killable with a Pokemon that outspeeds. Although, its speed still quite fast for PU standards.


I'd like to see how BDSPPL ends and state that these are my individual thoughts, but eventually if I see agreement I'd like to advocate for a potential voting similarly to how Carter did in RU. Thx for reading!

 

[plznostep]

My Thoughts on BDSP PU

Heya, it's your Favourite Flittle Fanatic here ready to say some thoughts on the meta after playing in BDSPPL
Before I do, I wanna put out my VR so here we go
(Note: im not very good at making VR's but i try so I hope this looks right)​

S Rank
Grumpig

A+ Rank
Monferno
Bellossom
Golem
Probopass
Lumineon
Poliwrath
Manectric

A Rank
Chatot
Dodrio
Porygon-2
Glaceon
Armaldo
Ninetales
Muk
Victreebel
Jumpluff

A- Rank
Altaria
Dugtrio
Dusclops
Misdreavus
Weezing
Whiscash
Rapidash
Rampardos
Leafeon

B+ Rank
Solrock
Articuno
Ninjask
Pelipper
Floatzel
Relicanth
Golduck
Glalie:
Tangela
Arbok
Noctowl
Luxray
Lickilicky
Kecleon
Masquerain
Regigigas

B Rank
Volbeat
Wormadam-Trash
Mawile
Butterfree
Vibrava
Gabite
Lunatone
Regice
Flareon
Rotom-Fan
Marowak
Roselia

B- Rank
Machoke
Shuckle
Meganium
Staryu:
Banette
Murkrow

C+ Rank
Slaking
Pikachu
Gastly
Electabuzz
Raticate
Combusken

C rank
Wigglytuff
Dustox
Seaking
Shedinja
Corsola

Problem Pokemon


Grumpig

Grumpig is by far the best Pokemon in the tier, and I personally think its unhealthy for the tier with it usually forcing some unfavorable 2 to 1 trades. Grumpig is quite specially bulky and decently fast the tier at base 80 allowing it to outpace a good amount of Pokemon in the tier, such as Victreebel and Poliwrath. It also has some great resistances notably to Ice, which helps Grumpig check Pokemon such as Glaceon, and Fire + Fighting to check Monferno too, letting it come in when its locked into these moves. Grumpig has a lot of set diversity; Scarf, Specs, Bulky Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, etc. Each one of these sets are pretty difficult to deal with because you have to act differently based on whatever set it is. For example, for sets other than scarf, you can usually revenge it with a strong physical attacker such as Dodrio, but if it is scarf, then you have to find other means of revenging Grumpig. The most reliable way i've found of dealing with this Pokemon is trying to trade using my own Grumpig, but if you encounter a Bulky Calm Mind set, this can also fail. There are some other Pokemon that can deal with Grumpig, but they are flawed. Wormadam-Trash can and is probably the best answer to it you'll find, but it's not exactly a great mon in the tier due to not exerting much offensive pressure at all and being a pretty big momentum sink in a tier where VoltTurn is a pretty strong part of the metagame. It also can struggle with Probopass trapping it and then Grumpig is enabled once again. Armaldo is a neat check, but it can be pressured easily due to its Stealth Rock weakness and the fact it doesn't actually resist Grumpig's STAB. Regigigas is also here and that one is just okay and can be hit hard by Focus Blast and is not exactly splashable either.

All of this combines to make a Pokemon that in my opinion is too much for this tier unfortunately. As for the other pokemon on the slate, Bellossom is pretty balanced imo, poisons are relatively common here, all of which beat Bellossom, and even if it is a set like Safeguard, then you have 4mss and can't actually beat any other grass resist anymore because you lost your coverage in a tier where grass resists are plentiful. For Chatot, i'm more conflicted. You definitely need to account for it in the builder, but at the same time there are answers for it. Misdreavus, specially defensive Golem, and Probopass matchup well, and some other niche picks such as Lunatone can also do okay. I wouldn't be surprised if it got banned but there are definitely answers here. I think I'm leaning towards no ban more on it though.
​

 

[AstilCodex]

With BDSPPL coming to an end! PU has gathered players to vote and we have an outcome already!

Grumpig has been banned from PU with 9/10 ban votes!

The development in the tier has proven Grumpig to be an unhealthy force in the state of the tier. With the tools available, Grumpig is an obnoxious Pokemon that realistically only got blanket by itself, and some obscure answers like Wormadam-Trash and Kecleon. Psychic, Ghost and Fighting with good bulk and a decent speed tier, access to Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, Trick and other tools made it too much for the tier to handle. For more detailed reasoning, check my previous post.

We also voted on Bellossom and Chatot, but none of them got enough votes to get banned. You can look all the players reasonings here! Thanks to all the players that qualified and voted! I greatly appreciate your contribution to the tier.

Tagging Kris and Marty to implement.

 

[AstilCodex]

We are finally releasing an official VR. For y'all before the slam starts. Also samples will be coming soon before R1!

BDSP PU Viability Rankings
​

S rank:

S rank
None!

A rank:

A+ rank

Bellossom
Muk
Poliwrath
Probopass

A rank

Dodrio
Dugtrio
Glaceon
Golem
Leafeon
Lumineon
Monferno
Porygon2
Tangela
Victreebel
Weezing

A- rank

Armaldo
Chatot
Floatzel
Jumpluff
Kadabra
Manectric
Pelipper
Whiscash

B rank

B+ rank

Altaria
Arbok
Dusclops
Misdreavus
Regigigas
Solrock

B rank

Camerupt
Gabite
Girafarig
Lapras
Lickilicky
Mawile
Ninetales
Ninjask
Rampardos
Rapidash
Relicanth

B- Rank

Articuno
Butterfree
Combusken
Glalie
Golduck
Luxray
Marowak
Noctowl
Piloswine
Roselia
Rotom-Fan

C rank

C+ rank

Flareon
Kecleon
Lunatone
Machoke
Magmar
Masquerain
Pidgeot
Regice
Shuckle
Stantler
Volbeat

C rank

Ampharos
Banette
Electabuzz
Kricketune
Meganium
Mothim
Murkrow
Octillery
Purugly
Seaking
Slaking
Swalot
Vibrava
Wormadam-Trash

C- rank

Corsola
Magcargo
Politoed
Raticate
Wigglytuff

 

[AstilCodex]

With the start of BDSP PU Open, we're releasing a few samples for y'all to use!

- Bellossom Voltturn by TONE
- Altaria BO by me
- Butterfree Webs by plznostep
- SubBU Poli + NP Chatot by me, plznostep and jawabarat
- Arbok + Dodrio by me
- Glaceon P2 Offense by plznostep
- Tspikes + Bello and Duggy by me

More samples might come soon!

 

[AstilCodex]

So with PU Slam 2024 done. Grats to igiveuponaname for beating me
This are the stats of all games played! (from R2 onwards)

PU Slam 2024 Usage Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Probopass          |   21 |  58.33% |  57.14% |
| 2    | Lumineon           |   20 |  55.56% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Manectric          |   18 |  50.00% |  38.89% |
| 4    | Golem              |   12 |  33.33% |  33.33% |
| 5    | Bellossom          |   12 |  33.33% |  41.67% |
| 6    | Kadabra            |   11 |  30.56% |  54.55% |
| 7    | Muk                |   10 |  27.78% |  40.00% |
| 8    | Poliwrath          |    8 |  22.22% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Chatot             |    7 |  19.44% |  71.43% |
| 10   | Dodrio             |    7 |  19.44% |  28.57% |
| 11   | Monferno           |    7 |  19.44% |  85.71% |
| 12   | Weezing            |    7 |  19.44% |  42.86% |
| 13   | Arbok              |    6 |  16.67% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Glaceon            |    5 |  13.89% |  60.00% |
| 15   | Tangela            |    4 |  11.11% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Pelipper           |    4 |  11.11% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Vibrava            |    4 |  11.11% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Leafeon            |    4 |  11.11% |  25.00% |
| 19   | Misdreavus         |    4 |  11.11% |  75.00% |
| 20   | Victreebel         |    4 |  11.11% |  25.00% |
| 21   | Dugtrio            |    3 |   8.33% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Hypno              |    3 |   8.33% |  33.33% |
| 23   | Rampardos          |    3 |   8.33% |  33.33% |
| 24   | Porygon2           |    3 |   8.33% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Rapidash           |    2 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Marowak            |    2 |   5.56% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Whiscash           |    2 |   5.56% | 100.00% |
| 28   | Regigigas          |    2 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Floatzel           |    2 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 30   | Rotom-Fan          |    2 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 31   | Ninjask            |    2 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Altaria            |    2 |   5.56% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Armaldo            |    2 |   5.56% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Meganium           |    2 |   5.56% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Slaking            |    1 |   2.78% | 100.00% |
| 36   | Relicanth          |    1 |   2.78% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Gabite             |    1 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Regice             |    1 |   2.78% | 100.00% |
| 39   | Raticate           |    1 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Machoke            |    1 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Ninetales          |    1 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Wartortle          |    1 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 43   | Noctowl            |    1 |   2.78% |   0.00% |

With this instead of making a team dump or something. I wanted to make a big VR nominations that I think are more reflective of the current metagame to have in a mind for a future slate. So, big post coming.

(remember this is my opinion after slam and not definite)

RISES

A+ to S. With Grumpig gone this mon just becomes the face of PU at this point. Has always been on top. And I think its a step above everything. Its our Scizor/Heatran. The glue of the tier. Not mandatory but incredibly useful and versatile. If theres any mon that should be S is big probo.

A to A+. Best defogger in the tier, its weird cuz it seems it does nothing but it does so much in every game. It had 82% WR in BDSPPL last year and now it continues to be solid and consistent. Can run spdef or phys depending on your build. And its one of the best pivots alongisde Probopass.

A- to A+. This mon is a monster. Without Grumpig now it shines as the best Psychic type and one of the strongest breakers. It has also very good utility moves like Encore and Twave, you always gotta check for Sash/Lo shenaningans. And it has ways to chip Probo better than all the other mons Probo comes in into. Fantastic Speed tier. Top mon for sure right now.

A- to A+. Same thing with Kadabra. Chatot as expected proves to demolish when Probo gets weakened and its ability to U-turn and the speed tier makes it such a strong breaker. Theres few things that comes nicely on it and also has versatility in sets. A- was a placeholder cuz we didn't know how good it would be, but with games played. Its even better in practice.

A- to A+. This mon is at the top of usage and its a staple on offensive Voltturn teams. Which are super solid and it being lower than some of the A mons is a crime. Yes it gets walled by Whiscash, Golem and Vibrava. But having switcheroo to cripple something, being the best and most solid Scarfer. I'm not going A+ because it has common checks in basic structures, including itself.
Edit: Changed it to A+, the splashability of this mon is only comparable to Probopass, you can slap a scarf on this and put in on any team and it'll work. I think is above the A margin.

A- to A. A good alternative to Lumineon for sure that its underrated just because its weak to rocks and flying type doesnt help vs some rockers and Probo. However it has better utility moves in Knock and second stab in Hurricane and instant recovery. Plus the very underrated Specs set which pushes it to A for me. Water+Flying basically has no switch-ins and I think its very underlooked.

B+ to A. I've been thinking about this guy a lot. Arbok is a threat man, having a poison type that beats Muk and has better offensive presence, beats your grass types, including Bello, has potential priority for Kadabra, EQ for Golem and Probopass, two great abilites, its such a good asset on your team and super scary to play around.

B+ to A-. Only good ghost in the tier imo. Ghost is very appreciated to have in this meta + Levitate allowing to come in on mons like Dugtrio and Golem if called correctly. Shadow Ball is very spammable, it can save you from Chatot. And its underexplored on the sets it can run. NP Sball Tbolt is very solid. It 1v1s Muk. Great speed tier, can run scarf too. Solid mon.

B to A- Fastest speed tier, strong af U-turns. Faster than Scarf Monferno, late game cleaner. The best mon in Voltturn Imo. Its a crime to have Ninjask this low. CB sets can fit on most Voltturn comps which again are super solid in PU, and Lumineon just makes this easier to run, it doesnt even need to have rocks out every turn, as long as it gets the 3 hits it needs in one game.

B to B+. Underrated for sure, has other traits that can be useful and work better than Monferno in some compositions. Its relatively bulky and the speed tier is great. Having hhp for Golem and Probo makes it better than Ninetales for sure imo. And bulky SD variants can 1v1 and force out Lumi, Flame body is also great for punishing U-turns.

B- to B+. I think being on Manectric's shadow is obviously a factor for this being low. But the thing is it doesnt perform the same role as Manectric, a NP fantom can destroy the common defensive cores. And it beats the grass types more consistenly than Manectric, which doesnt beat Bello for example. Still gets walled by Golem but can Trade with Whiscash and Vibrava gives it free Plots. Underrated in the VR.

B to B+. Edit: I forgot Gabite lol Ok. STOP USING THIS DEFENSIVELY. Tier has no dragon switch-ins period cuz your probo is getting EQd. This guys two STABs are unwallable. Yes is not that strong but CB Outrage can clean up suprinsingly and caught you off guard. And Scarf is just as viable as a revenge killer. Also good typing vs Manectric. I encourage to use offensive sets more.

B- to B+. Yes I'm not joking, I think we should stop being afraid of Rocks because some mons, like this one and Ninjask can perform potent offensive capabilites even with that factor. QD sweepers are scary and Sleep is annoying af, again, Probo can't do everything and this having option to run both Compound or Tinted lens makes it annoying as hell for a team without a faster scarfer or priority, and also having to consider Sleep getting some 50/50 wrong could make you lose as they get a second QD.

UR to B+. I think this is better than Giraf. Which I consider but never brought it. Has good bulk, access to NP and Focus Blast to morb Probo out. And its a nice alternative to Kadabra as a psychic type that is bulky, though maybe I'm overrating it with the ranking because it needs the NP boost to damage, and its relatively slow. I still think its better than the mons in B atm.

B- to B. I just think self Rain Dance is underrated. It performs it better than Floatzel now that Poliwraths exist cuz Psychic coverage and its a little bulkier. Should def try it out. Also has CM so a Sub CM can setup on Lumi and stuff.

C to B. Again not joking, Vibrava compresses a unique roll that no other mon does, its great in Probo + Poli/Whiscash comps as you dont wanna stack another water type. its a defogger that beats Golem and Probopass, while also checking Manectric. Its actually a good mon even if it has ass stats. Typing + ability and moves makes it very decent and it has seen some play and success for sure.

C to B. We are in a metagame with low power creep. Two Fighting types that dont wanna switch into this and one ghost. Tell me what stops Slaking to be decent, if you gotta switch out next turn just do it. The raw power in CB/Scarf its worth it for sure. One call and your probo gets EQ you're out. Also base 100 is solid and Sucker can help VS Kadabra and scarfers. Reminder that it has 160 Atk. And its bulky as shit. So yeah, Traunt doesn't matter thaaat much when u can blow something away.

B- to B. Pre-Chatot I had this B+/A- but now yes it does get outclassed. However, its still a decent deffoger which great bulk actually and Tinted lens is no joke for the Rock types. It can still perform the NP roost fog Hurri just fine. B- is just not acknowleding this mon usefulness on practice and in the builder in some comps again when u dont wanna stack a water type as your defogger.

C- to B-. Same as Slaking, fast strong Normal type hits. Dark move for missy and priority. Its just that it lacks Bulk and ofc theres Probo and rock types but you ignoring this could be a problem. Def better than fucking Luxray lol.

C- to C+. Hear me out. Defensive is ass. Ok, we done with that. Coming on a defensive defog and getting a boost. Suddenly you have a strong af breaker. Focus blast for probo and just hella good coverage in moves. I think the applications of Competitive boost with this is underrated. Yes its slow but it has its merits.

UR to C+ This is the only birb that morbs Probo with Drill Run. Its cool offensive and has good speed tier. Worth the try with the Scope Lens Sniper set. Idk why we miss this guy.

Edit: UR to C. Shedinja should be ranked. It randomly walls high tier mons. And rocks aren't that hard to keep away from the field. I think it can be pulled off.

Now that we're done with that. Here are the drops. Not that many though.

DROPS

A+ to A-. I think when it first came into the tier we overrate it a little. Its just that PU isn't that great of a place to Poliwrath strangely enough. Fighting type doesn't help it some common mons such as Pelipper, Dodrio, Kadabra. And ofc it suffers the game from the grass types as the other waters. I think its versatile enough to pull off stuff and win games, but no set feels like the one you are running in PU, if that makes sense. But I have a hard time now putting this as my water type over others, as it provides no progress moves, so I think being around Whiscash rank its fine. Sorry Poli.

A+ to A. Curse Resttalk still a demon but I think players have figured out how to play around it and stop it from sweeping. It struggles more now, I find better success with just offensive Muk sets. As good coverage in Focus Punch/Brick Break and the usefulness of taking Kadabra with Sneak is more valuable right now. And many mons such as Arbok, Misdreavus, Golem, Probo just force it out and it has gotten a little worse for me.

A to A-. Hard to justify using it now imo when the other grass types such as Tangela, Victreebel and Bello just beats it. It just doesnt have good coverage and struggles when it has to click any other move that isn't SD or Leaf Blade. There are so many good poison types now and the speed tier is nice but it needs to click SD first and suddenly you are forced out. I think this is around Jumpluff level for now. But even Jumpluff its a little bit better for me atm.

A- to B+. Speed tier is fantastic. Outspeeding Kadabra is great. but Physical sets suck, Poliwrath exists, and you are basically just clicking Water and Ice moves. I think the applications of Floatzel now are a little bit less valuable. And I only keep it B+ because the speed tier is good vs Kadabra. And also is frail af and you don't want your water to be frail.

B+ to B. Yes this walls Dugtrio and Golem, its decent rocker for sure but it never sees the battlefield cuz u are not using it. Gets 2shot by Chatot and Kadabra anyway. So its outclassed as a rocker. SD EdgeQuake with the speed tier is cool, but just as cool as a Scarf Rampardos I'd say.

B+ to B-. This was good in the times we were trying to cope for building fatter teams, and Dugtrio, Leafeon and especially Pinsir were a problem, but now theres little reason to use this. This being less viable makes the Normals types I already talk about a lot better. Its passive af and makes little progress cuz you know its clicking wisp and Night Shade and maybe haze, thats about it.

B to B-. There's just better Normal types, it doesn't run comfortably any set you want to use on this. Even if it has insanely good movepool, the speed stats and weird stat distribution doesnt help. Its more of a meme that can caught you off guard. Maybe you get boom or Belly Drumed or just Knocked and yea. Sure.

B- to C. Luxray is dicks. Just use Mane/Fantom as your electric. And an actual Normal type to click strong moves. Its slow, is shit. Bad mon.

C+ to UR. ffs whats this doing now with Dodrio here, use noctowl as defogger. Yes you are faster than 100 speed. And what are u doing other than U-turn out or doing 12 with Brave Bird. Like every birb is better than this piece of shit.

--------------
​

OK WE FINALLY DONE. Hope u guys like the post and my thoughts, the stats and everything. See ya ^^


EDIT: Ending with this to portray basically whats the new trends in PU.

 

[AstilCodex]

I'm opening this tool for yall to make your own VR!

BDSP PU VR Tier Maker

I'd like to see your thoughts, this is mine, following the previous post this would be my personal VR atm. (Yes I'm the only one posting here now)
Mons are ordered in the same rank from S to B-. Then I just didn't care.
Have fun ^^