Because I'm sick of common movesets (An OU Bulky Offence)

[Kikosaurus]

Hello guys !

This will probably be my last team for the 4th generation, so I wanted to build a nice team. I spent a lot of time to it, but it's now pretty good. So, first, here's my team building.

TEAM BUILDING


I would first say that I really don't like (and even hate) common movesets. Teams full of common movesets are boring and predictable. I didn't want a team with Machamp Lead, Heatran/Flygon/Rotom-H Choice Scarf, Scizor Choice Band, or Starmie Life Orber. I wanted an original team.

Well, first I wanted a lead who could take care of the common ones. I tried a lot of leads, but no one satisfied me. Mamoswine, Dragonite, Infernape, Heatran, Metagross, Machamp, Aerodactyl... They all failed. That's when I found THE lead. Crobat. With its blazing Speed, its good Attack, a powerful STAB with Brave Bird, and U-turn, he took the lead spot.

Now I need a revenge killer, a Pokemon who could come on many threats and hit on the special side with powerful STAB moves. Even if he's not that fast, Choice Specs Rotom-W is a great choice for this role.

Okay, so I need a late-game sweeper who is bulky, powerful and original. Lucario is too slow ; Scizor is too predictable ; Infernape is too frail. Chesto Berry Kingdra is original, bulky, and can set-up with Dragon Dance. He also performs as an early-game sweeper because he can come and set-up easily. So, let's play.

Okay, that's pretty good, but Blissey completely wall this. What about a pure physical sweeper who is quite bulky and can hit like a mammoth ? Yes, you've recognized it, the most annoying lead ever, but this time with the Sub + 3 Attacks set : Machamp.

Now, I wanted two Pokemons who could hit hard but also cripple the opponent with status. Suddenly, one word came into my mind : CeleTran. The legendary defensive combo. I chose the Tinkerbell and the Burn Heatran. It also built the well-known F/W/G core.

A CLOSER LOOK

Crobat @Leftovers
Inner Focus
Jolly Nature
72 HP/252 Att/36 Def/148 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Super Fang
- U-turn
- Taunt

Ahh, Crobat. This guy makes a very nice lead. I chose the CB Crobat Lead's spread, because I can hit REALLY hard with Brave Bird and U-turn ; but I don't took the Choice Band, because I don't want to be locked. The speed tie with Aerodactyl is useless, so I "only" invested 148 EV in Speed to reach 366 Speed. Super Fang is when I'm about to die, and Taunt cripples slow leads. Here is the lead match-up.

Crobat against the ten most used leads :
Green is not a problem, Orange is quite hard to deal with and Red is a threat.

Hide

Azelf - He will SR first turn, so I use Brave Bird to break the sash (BB does about 69-82% for the normal and Colbur lead, and 57-68% for the Dual Screener. Then I U-turn to death.
Machamp - "lol n00b every1 uz machamp as lead you n00b" Guess what ? Brave Bird OHKO him.
Aerodactyl -Well, this guy is pretty tough. I usually do a blind U-turn to Kingdra ; as the opponent switches to avoid a Water-typed attack, I Dragon Dance and see what comes in.
Metagross - I taunt him to prevent SR and U-turn to Heatran. Most of the opponents think I am carrying a Scarf, so I Sub on the switch and burn the Heatran's counter who comes in.
Swampert - It's mostly anticipation for this one. I BB the first turn ; if he put SR it's okay, if he uses Ice Beam it's over. The second turn, I U-turn to Kingdra and start set-up.
Infernape - Brave Bird. Go eat bananas in heaven.
Heatran - Quite the same as Swampert, except I use Super Fang the first turn, then U-turn to Kingdra. If he SR I win, if Overheat I lose.
Jirachi - I usually switch to Rotom, assuming this is the Trick Lead. If I failed, it will be quite hard. Usually, I finish him later with Kingdra, Machamp, or Heatran.
Ninjask - Brave Bird. Why ? Because I hate bugs.
Roserade - Brave Bird. Why ? Because I hate poisoned flowers.

Rotom-W @Choice Specs
Levitate
Modest Nature
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Many people, when they see this, expect I'm running a Choice Scarf. They understand their mistake when I hit them on the switch with Hydro Pump or STAB Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball. Trick is like to say "You're trapped !" to a pesky staller, like Blissey. This guy acts as a pure special sweeper, capable of hurt many threats extremely hard.

Kingdra @Chesto Berry
Swift Swim
Adamant Nature
48 HP / 96 Atk / 80 Def / 120 SpD / 164 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Waterfall
- Outrage

Kingdra has always been my favourite dragon. With a resistance to SR, a natural bulk, and access to moves like Dragon Dance, Waterfall and Outrage with STAB, it had a glorious destiny. But a jerk named Salamence came and overshadowed the poor sea dragon. Then, Salamence has been banned. And Kingdra could now show its power. This, is the best Kingdra set ever. With its incredible bulk, it can use DD at least twice, often three times ; restore its health in one turn with the combination of Rest and Chesto Berry, and then proceed to sweep. Waterfall and Outrage provides perfect coverage and STAB, and with Kingdra's attack boosted with DD, it rips through teams. This guy is probably my favourite team member.

Machamp @Leftovers
No Guard
Adamant Nature
128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
- Substitute
- Dynamicpunch
- Stone Edge
- Payback

And now, the Pokemon who currently has its hype time. "Machamp is the best lead evah kills Azelf with Payback cripples opponent with Dynamicpunch blah blah blah." That's what I hear everyday. Seriously, I'm tired of this. Remember the good times when Machamp was uncommon, with only one moveset, the SubChamp ? This is the set I chose. Machamp come on stuffs like Blissey, Dragonite, anything which can't OHKO him and can be destroyed. Sub on the switch, then sweep. Correctly used, he can make a 6-0. Dynamicpunch because with No Guard, it's absolutely cruel. Stone Edge for Dragonite, Gliscor, stuffs like that. Payback is for the Rotom family, Gengar, Azelf.

Celebi @Life Orb
Natural Cure
Modest Nature
232 HP / 244 SpA / 32 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Rest

Good ol' classic Tinkerbell. It's one of the only classic movesets I recommend, because it's awesome. You come on a resisted attack (with Celebi's bulk, it's not that difficult), TW on the switch, sweep. Leaf Storm is insanely powerful with Life Orb, Psychic provides help with some Celebi's counters like Infernape or Machamp. Rest then switch to be back later at full health.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
Calm Nature
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp

For many people, "Heatran = Choice Scarf". This set is really underrated, but can be very hard to deal with. The idea is to come on a Steel/Grass-type which can't do anything, Sub on the switch, and Will-O-Wisp the counter who will come in (most of the time, it's Gyarados). The opponent is crippled, and with its bulk, Heatran can stay a long time. Even without investisment in Special Attack, STAB Fire Blast and Earth Power are powerful moves. With Celebi, he makes the legendary CeleTran combo, which is very resistant. Try this Heatran set, it's really effective.

So, this is my team. It's not perfect at all, and I know there are some things missing : for example, I decided to not run SR. I know most of you will say me to do so, but it would destroy the team synergy. Thank you to red all this, and I hope you will have advices.

 

[Kizzy]

I personally really like your team, because I like to use uncommon movesets myself.
The element of surprise wins games. Like how my Scarfcario used to smack Salamence in the face with HPice.

On your team the first thing I looked at was how you avoid SR weak pogeyman and do not have glaring weaknesses across the team. Thats good. (And Kingdra doesn't resist Stealth Rock, typo)

Crobat has a definite advantage over common leads for the simple reason that they probably don't expect you to Taunt, which ruins everything.

I've faced plenty of Spec Rotom's and any attack coming from it HURTS. Really bad. Usually a sweeper switches into what it hopes is a defenseless support rotom and gets smacked in the face.

Your celebii though, is the one I think would catch someone off guard, fatally. If celebii didn't have so many weaknesses I'd be tempted to steal your set.

Your Heatran is great. I'm guilty of using Scarfran, but I like seeing defensive sets.


Theres nothing I would change about your team because I realise it would destroy what your trying to accomplish so, good job.

 

[Moo]

A couple of things:
Some of your lead Matchups are wrong.
Taunt is painfully obvious, and Metagross will probably go for Meteor Mash first, then you're in trouble.
Why would you Super Fang Heatran and not Swampert?
Infernape and Roserade carry Focus Sashes.
Ninjask knows Protect.
But Crobat is a great lead, I'd reccomend Roost over Taunt, but you probably use him differently to me.

Not Joking, but the first thing people think when they see Rotom-W is specs. Not joking. It's still great though.

Little nitpick: Kingdra doesnt resist SR, and he doesnt provide perfect coverage. Empoleon walls it. but you have machamp for that. (if he hasnt started setting up)

Machamp looks good. Although I lol'd when you said Stone Edge hits gliscor. Ice Punch hits Dragonite and Gliscor, so I recommend that over Stone Edge if thats what you need to hit.

Celebi looks good, although Psychic provides horrible coverage.

Again, I'm not shitting you, ScarfTran isnt all that common anymore. Sdef Tran works great though.

My point is, Its great to be creative, but not for the sake of it.

 

[Psychotic..]

Why are people so crazed on using "uncommon" or "original" move-sets? Logic VS Originality with two equally skilled players will have logic winning every day of the week. Also, i agree with Moo a lot of these sets are not that uncommon you may want to re-think that as a lot of these are fairly standard. Anyways, on with the actual rate.


First of all, you need SR. You can add it without ruining synergy either. Heatran can run a Shuca-berry set that can run stealth rocks which your team will want especially since Kingdra can use it to net important KO's. It also provides a oh shit button with Explosion. Here is the set:

Heatran@Shuca Berry
Naive~Flash fire
~Fire Blast
~Earth Power
~Stealth Rocks
~Explosion

...

Not so important but I would try Shaymin>Celebi since Shaymin has better coverage defensively and a better STAB in Seed Flare. Something like Seed Flare/ HP Fire/ Earthpower/ Rest can really be a bitch to take out for your opponent.

...

Also, a lot of your lead match-ups are very off. I don't know why you and "Kizzy" think taunt is something new on Crobat. Its standard and on almost all Crobat. Also, Brave bird is not a guaranteed OHKO on lead machmp so you may want to be wary of Stone Edge. However, I'm not too sold on Crobat. Its pretty much a Aero without SR. If you want a good lead that is quote "uncommon" have you tried anti-lead Azelf? It can be surprising to a lot of leads. Here is the set.

Azelf@Life Orb
Naive~Levitate
~Psychic
~Fire Blast
~U-Turn
~HP Ground/Explosion

 

[Kikosaurus]

Why are people so crazed on using "uncommon" or "original" move-sets? Logic VS Originality with two equally skilled players will have logic winning every day of the week. Also, i agree with Moo a lot of these sets are not that uncommon you may want to re-think that as a lot of these are fairly standard. Anyways, on with the actual rate.

False. A lot of people don't expect these sets : Burn Heatran or Chesto Kingdra aren't played much. I win almost all my matches because of surprise and skill (i'm not joking).

First of all, you need SR. You can add it without ruining synergy either. Heatran can run a Shuca-berry set that can run stealth rocks which your team will want especially since Kingdra can use it to net important KO's. It also provides a oh shit button with Explosion. Here is the set:

Heatran@Shuca Berry
Naive~Flash fire
~Fire Blast
~Earth Power
~Stealth Rocks
~Explosion

I really think this set sucks. Not really a sweeper, but not really a staller... His role is only to set up the rocks, which is way not enough. Also, you say it net KOs for Kingdra : after 2 or 3 DD, you're not counting on this.

Also, a lot of your lead match-ups are very off. I don't know why you and "Kizzy" think taunt is something new on Crobat. Its standard and on almost all Crobat. Also, Brave bird is not a guaranteed OHKO on lead machmp so you may want to be wary of Stone Edge. However, I'm not too sold on Crobat. Its pretty much a Aero without SR. If you want a good lead that is quote "uncommon" have you tried anti-lead Azelf? It can be surprising to a lot of leads. Here is the set.

Azelf@Life Orb
Naive~Levitate
~Psychic
~Fire Blast
~U-Turn
~HP Ground/Explosion

I'm gonna give this set a try. We'll see how effective it is.

 

[afterburn]

Cool team, really like teams that utilize unusual threats, as no one's prepared for them.

Threats
Swords Dance Lucario
Dragon Dance Dragonite
Chesto Rest Kingdra
Mixed Flygon
Lack of Stealth Rock

Jolly Swords Dance Lucario isn't as threatening as it seems on paper, basically because it doesn't get too many chances to come in, other than Rotom's Shadow ball. Setting up a Swords Dance there is "gg" for the team as it will wreck the team with +2 Close Combat and Crunch, as your team is outsped unfortunately. Dragon Dance Dragonite can come in more easily on this team than others due to the lack of Stealth Rock limiting its switchin-ins. Heatran caught with no Substitiute protection or Rotom-W locked into Hydro Pump, or if it has Lum Berry, Celebi at -2 Satk from Leaf Storm. After setting up a Dragon Dance, Offensive variants, and to a lesser extent, Bulky Variants will give the team hell with +1 Outrage/Dragon Claw and Earthquake, thats all the coverage it needs. Opposing Chesto Rest Kingdra can find ample opportunities to set up on Rotom's x4 resisted Hydro Pump, Heatran and even Celebi after Leaf Storm's recoil, it will say "idgaf about T-wave and W-o-W, set up and put a huge dent in this team. Finally Mixed Flygon outspeeds every member of this team and can severely injure every member with LO STAB Draco Meteor, bar Heatran, who's handled by Earthquake. The lackof Stealth Rock means DD Gyarados, DD Dragonite, Offensive Zapdos, and although rare, Togekiss will have a much easier time due to not getting stripped off 25% of their health each turn.

I know the theme of the team is to use uncommon movesets, and I'll try my best to stick to this theme when suggesting new members and potential sets. To start things off, I think Shuca Berry Superachi can work well over Heatran. It gives your team more speed, which Heatran failed to do, and can stand up to 2/3 Dragons mentioned, Dragonite, Kingdra and Lucario. Against Dragonite you can switch in as it dances, and OHKO with HP Ice as it tries to kill you with Earthquake. Mixed Flygon nowadays don't run Max Speed, so you kill them with HP Ice. The cool thing it actually takes away Kingdra's most common check, Scarf Flygon by KOing with HP Ice. This would also aid you against Gyarados with Thunderbolt, if the need arises. Other than being a Lure, and a counter to Suicune who this team can trouble bar Kingdra, it can also function as a sweeper if its checks are removed, though thats not the initial goal.
Try this set:

Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Now then, for Stealth Rock, I think Life Orb Heatran can do well in the lead slot. I know you don't like Pokemon that set up Stealth Rock and just die, but this guy really is something that Stall hates, bar Blissey which Machamp and Kingdra can handle. Heatran and Machamp are great partners as well, coming in on Rotom-H trying to burn Machamp, or hitting it with Thunderbolt, which by the way this Heatran can take well due to some valuable HP Evs. Speed is unnecessary on Modest Lead Heatran, since it doesn't need that Speed to beat the leads its meant to own, besides as mentioned the bulk helps in situations where you really need Heatran to take some random Special Attack.

Try this set:

Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 174 HP/82 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock

So finally I see a small weakness to Lead Infernape popping up and I think there should be a more reliable way to handling Lucario, I thought about Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados, but that softens the team up to LO Starmie, which Kingdra sets up on. So, I'm going to say, try Choice Scarf Rotom-W over your current one. Same set, but with 216 HP/40 Satk/252 Spe with an obvious Choice Scarf. This is the "glue" of the team, and thanks to Hydro Pump, Tyranitar will be very cautious when trying to switch in, even if it does kill Rotom, it has just opened up a path for Machamp to set up a substitute and dismantle the opposing team.

Other than that, I think this team looks fine, contact me if you have any concerns regarding this rate.

GL

 

[Psychotic..]

False. A lot of people don't expect these sets : Burn Heatran or Chesto Kingdra aren't played much. I win almost all my matches because of surprise and skill (i'm not joking).

Not exactly. Chesto Resto Kingdra is fairly common now it has pretty much become the new standard. The fact that you think "suprise" only occurs in uncommon move sets is completely absurd. Look at Infernape. You may expect a Physical Mix set and watch it Nasty Plot. Yet both are fairly common. The point? You can be suprised by common move sets because there isn't one single move set for each pokemon.

I really think this set sucks. Not really a sweeper, but not really a staller... His role is only to set up the rocks, which is way not enough. Also, you say it net KOs for Kingdra : after 2 or 3 DD, you're not counting on this.

I don't know how many Pokemon like taking a Fire Blast from a 130 base sp atk but Heatran can sweep with that set. Albeit it wont take full teams on by it self it can definitely help. Have you tried this set? Also, If you insist on using a staller Heatran i reccomend Sub Toxic Tran. Same move pool but Toxic>WoW. Toxic allows heatran to really be a bitch especially to pokemon like Suicune or Vaporeon who could care less about being burned.

You can also try running a more offensive 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with LO allowing Heatran to be a fantastic sweeper and be a nuisance with Toxic at the same time. However, i still recommend Stealth Rocks because you underestimate there use-fullness without them Pokemon can switch in all day and wall a pokemon switch out and come back in without a penalty(Cough Zapdos)

Also, Do you think the opponent is going to use Spalsh while you set up? You act as if Kingdra can come in on any given Pokemon magically get 3 dragon dances and sweep. Its not hard to switch in a scarf Flygon and force a switch Skarmory Whirl Wind you away or have Gyarados Intmidate you . Stealth Rocks at least hampers the number of times they can switch in on you.

 

[yuser10]

Infernape can easily make an original moveset, just sayin. Speaking of Infernape, I'm making a battle tower infernape moveset. Please don't say swords dance. I have:

INFERNAPE@
252atk/252spe/4hp
Flare Blitz
Close Combat
Earthquake
Mach punch OR Thunderpunch


Cant decide on last move, but thunderpunch would be less predictable and let me hit Gyarados, Dragonite, and Salamence.
No Swords Dance will probably make some people expect it, especially if I name Infernape SD Sweeper.

 

[sithsniper17]

I really like the originality of this team, and it has great synergy. I only have a couple of things to nitpick. On Kingdra, unless you or your opponent are running Rain Dance, Swift Swim is fairly useless. You might appreciate the value Sniper has to offer, especially because getting 3 DDs up takes a miracle.

Also, you say that Stealth Rock destroys your team synergy? Not true. SR is an asset to any team, and you will rarely see any well-built OU teams without it. I would recommend putting it on Heatran, and @TheLegendKiller's moveset is a very useful one, although I might replace LO with Lefties, Overheat with Fire Blast, and HP Grass with Substitute, so as to keep your Heatran's originality. And keep your EV spread as well.

Speaking of Heatran, I completely agree with you, BTW. ScarfTran is way too overrated.

Other than that, your team looks great! Good luck and have fun with it!

 

[soonerorlater]

Chesto Rest Kingdra is probably the most popular by now. I started using it back when it was still in QC, and it just ripped teams, but now everyone is somewhat prepared (Scarfgons outrunning you even at +1, and KO with Outrage).

Recover is probably better, even with Natural Cure on Celebi. It lets you heal without having to switch, and that means Physical MixApe is having a field day without Crobat. Everything is 2HKO with Close Combat/Fire Blast. You need something that can outspeed it easily and KO.

I suggest using Azumarill over Machamp. The best one to use is CB Azumarill (which is common in UU, but not OU), who single-handedly KOs Infernape with Aqua Jet. If that's not to your fancy, Hitmontop (specifically TechniTop) is the best counter that fits your team, as Fake Out + Mach Punch will most likely finish off Infernape at -1 Def and Life Orb damage.

Opposing lead Heatran also pretty much wins against you. It outspeeds Kingdra, and will Explode on it. It now has SR up, and killed one of your sweepers, and leaving you quite vulnurable. Lacking important pokemon who can outspeed and KO threats before they kill you is important, such is the reason for a Scarfer in every team (or CB Scizor). I already suggested CB Azumarill and TechniTop for priority side of revenge, but there're decent scarfers around without being overused (read: Flygon, Heatran). ScarfTar is great except it hurts your team with SS(and still used quite often). Scarf Togekiss or Dragonite works very well with powerful moves, while still outspeeding dangerous DD sweepers with Modest/Adamant natures. Their shortcoming is SR weakness, but that's one thing you have to work around.

 

[Siegrin]

I don't think Will-o-wisp is that important on your Heatran, why don't you run Torment, so you can "Torment" them as most pokemon only carry at most one move to harm Heatran, therefore, you can setup substitute, and slowly wear down your opponent using one of your moves.

 

[Saint Ashes]

I run a Crobat lead as well, so I have a couple of suggestions that could help with your lead match ups.
Putting Hidden Power Grass on your Heatran will allow it to OHKO Swampert leads after you U-Turn to Heatran. A Swampert Lead will never EQ a Crobat Lead, they usually Ice Beam or SR. The former is bad for Crobat to risk staying in on. Swampert Leads also very rarely switch out of Heatran. I have no idea why, since it's painfully obvious that Heatran would only come in if it could counter Swampert. But hey, might as well abuse it.

Also, Aerodactyl is one of the worst lead match ups for Crobat. Most Aerodactyl leads will Taunt as per default, but those that are wise to Crobat will Stone Edge right off the bat, meaning if you stay in you risk losing a speed tie, and you also fail to OHKO, meaning you lose Crobat 80% of the time Aerodactyl decides to Stone Edge you. I like to gamble with my Crobat and U-Turn, but if you don't wanna be losing your Crobat, a safer option is to switch immediately to something that threatens Aerodactyl.

A Ninjask Lead will always use protect first, and then after one speed boost it outspeeds you, allowing it to substitute for more boosts, or baton pass immediately. I'd suggest using any move turn 1 followed by Taunt. But don't let them know you have Taunt turn 1. If they Sub, they lose, if they Baton Pass, you break any possible chain they could be setting up right off the bat.

Lastly, any Roserade lead is gonna survive a Brave Bird by it's focus sash and disable Crobat with Sleep Powder, then proceed to set up Toxic Spikes, so I'd consider it a bad match up for your team since you have nothing but Kingdra to absorb sleep. Running Bullet Punch + Lum Berry on Machamp would allow you to beat many suicide leads without ever letting them set up SR as they feebly try to status or taunt you as you U-Turn to Machamp.

 

[More Cowbell]

Not wanting to burst bubbles around here, but Crobat seems like a kinda common lead nowadays, and Chesto Rest is far from original anymore.

Also, on Celebi, don't use Leaf Storm, stick with Grass Knot and change Psychic for Earth Power. If you're gonna ''sweep'', which I don't see Celebi doing yet with Grass Attack/Psychic, you're not gonna like the SpA boost. And as I said before, Earth Power is almost like a special Earthquake, which is good. Use it.

 

[aVocado]

Actually i disagree More Cowbell, Leaf Storm is much better since Celebi won't be staying in anyway, and instead of switching Psychic with Earth Power, switch it to Hidden Power Fire for Scizor switch-ins. Leaf Storm is used to deal more damage on Vaporeon and other non-heavy Pokemon.

I also like the idea of using Leftovers over Life Orb, but it's up to you.