ORAS OU Beginner, need help with Diancie/Manaphy core balance team

[chiara_t]

Kinda my first time building a team, before never really made a team by myself. Spent ~1 week testing and revamping but still feel like I have a lot of flaws and even dropped my already-pleb-rating by 200. Will try to explain my reasoning but those might even be flawed too.

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power
- Protect
It's my first time so I wanted to start with something viable and not too hard to build around and Diancie fits that. and cute too. Standard set here, does what it does best. Tried things like heal bell, rock polish, and few more things but this just feels more ideal. I don't use HP fire because it's mainly to counter scizor, ferro and steels but it doesn't ko while they ohko diancie not to mention a lot of steels run bullet punch.

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Tail Glow
Now I need a wallbreaker because Diancie has no boost and manaphy fits perfectly. Handles rock/ground types that ohkos Diancie with Earthquake (Lando-T, Gliscor, Excadrill) and can potentially burn those phys attacker steels. Rain dance + hydration is really nice especially cause now I don't need cleric support cause M-Diancie, Manaphy, and Breloom are immune to status, Tran immune to toxic and wisp, and even mew has synchronize, will eventually crippled though.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
The stealth rock setter that also handles the steels that the duo core doesn't reliably check. Also both mana and diancie can't switch in to charizard mega-y at all, so this is where tran comes in. Taunt is really useful to against the likes of clef, ferro, etc. Air Balloon is chosen for pseudo-ground immunity, and invest in HP for neutral bulk, although I'm not sure if choosing either def or spd would be better.

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Psychic
I chose mew for the utility, defog and wisp are incredibly useful. Also walls a lot of thing. Psychis over knock-off because Torn has Knofck off. BUT I feel Mew's role kinda overlap with Tran except resist Keld secret sword that still troubles my core? and doesn't really check anything the team doesn't check already.... but can't really think of a better utility defogger. Invested in def because I alrd have Assault Vest Torn.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Mach Punch
Breloom covers a lot of things I still need, it resists earthquake/rock slide and ohkos bisharp and weavile, which otherwise troubles my team. Also deals with opposing waters like rotom-w and suicune, since my manaphy doesn't run energy ball. Also the priority cleaner that I sometimes need.

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Knock Off

And the last mon. Handles the hyper offenses that the squishy diancie and manaphy can't beat with good recovery in regenerator. also utility knock-off too because mew doesn't have it, and U-turn can help bring mana/diancie more safely.

Now, the one mon I notice I have trouble against is mega manectric because that thing runs flamethrower that rekts breloom, my elec resist. And often I feel overwhelmed by certain threats that I'm supposed to be able to handle, because I'm not really good but is my team a bit hard to play? I don't know if I should just wait for next teambuilding workshop because this team need more revamp than I thought? Anyway hope someone will be able to help me!

 

[aki0s]

Hey there,

Just a preface, OU isn't my main tier, but I noticed no-one was giving you help - soo...
Your team could use some improvements as some of the sets & pokemon you are using do not fit on this team. Your Manectric weakness can also be fixed pretty easily.

#1 You have no weaville switch in

Weaville is a very big threat in OU, so it's best to have a switch in for it. Breloom doesn't seem like it does much on this team besides providing priority & dealing with ground / water types. With that in mind, I would suggest changing Breloom -> Keldeo

. Keldeo helps you deal with defensive grounds such as: Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Gliscor. These can give Diancie trouble as they can all take a few hits from Diancie and kill it in return. Keldeo places a lot of offensive pressure on balanced teams and is a great pokemon to help punch holes in the enemy team for Diancie. It takes pressure off of Manaphy & Heatran for handling steel type pokemon and most importantly gives you a solid way to handle dark type pokemon besides Diancie.

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Focus Blast
- Hydro Pump

#2 Your Manectric weakness

This is actually the easiest thing to wall on your team if you just change the set on your Heatran & one of your pokemon. I would suggest changing Heatran to a full special defense Heatran. This helps you deal better with Fairy type pokemon and gives you a solid answer to things such as M-Manectric, Latios/Latias, Clefable, Jirachi, Scizor, etc.

Next, I suggest changing Mew -> Latios

. Latios fits better with the offensive nature of M-Diancie and provides a ground immunity as well as a good Keldeo / Volcanion switch in. It also provides another check to M-Manectric and electrics in general, ex: Thundurus-I / T, Raikou, Magnezone, etc.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Earth Power / Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Taunt allows you to anti-lead versus slower hazard setters and give stall trouble. Earth power helps your heatran not to be walled by other Heatran's & opens up a slot on Diancie. I would suggest Earth power, but I'll leave the choice to you.

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost / Hidden power Fire

Roost allows Latios to better check threats throughout the game whilst still functioning as a great offensive partner for M-Diancie. Hidden power fire changes Latios to a more offensive lure set, which better deals with things such as M-Scizor who often use Latios as set up bait. You don't really need HP-Fire in my opinion because you have Heatran + Keldeo & Manaphy already. But it comes down to your choice in the end.

#3 No electric immunity / Late game cleaner

At the moment: electrics can freely click volt-switch with little repercussion. Tornadus-T also doesn't do what it is supposed to be doing with Heatran & Latios on the team. You also do not, as of yet, have a fast revenge killer / cleaner. Ground types still look like they can be a problem even with all the offensive pressure the team places on them.
With all this in mind, I would suggest changing Tornadus-T -> Choice scarf Landorus-T

.

Landorus-T provides a solid late game cleaner, an electric immunity, a ground immunity, and a fast scarfer to the team. Intimidate is also useful versus the myriad of dangerous physical attackers in the OU tier.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- U-turn

#4 Minor set changes ★

Your sets for Diancie & Manaphy seem fine in theory, but I'd suggest the following changes:

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 32 Atk / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Sharpen
- Protect / Rock polish

With Zapdos back in the tier, I think this set is the set every Diancie should be running - with perhaps HP-fire over Earth power. These attack ev's allow you to OHKO standard physically defensive Zapdos after stealth rocks:
32 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 288-338 (75.1 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Diancie's coverage move's comes down to your choice. Even though you may not think Hp-fire Diancie is the best, it does offer a last ditch way to deal with Steel's and hits Scizor on the switch harder than earth power will. Earth power isn't really necessary because Landorus-T, the two water types & your own Heatran deal with it. Another option you can pursue is sharpen Diancie. This boosts the power of diamond storm and helps you to threaten Chansey who loves to come in on Diancie.

Finally, you could also opt for rock polish Diancie (but keep Hp-Fire). This provides you with another late game cleaner and a solid win-condition at the cost of a safe mega evolution.

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psychic
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance

Psychic Manaphy threatens pokemon such as Amoonguss & M-venusaur a lot better. This makes things easier for Keldeo, M-diancie, and Landorus-T to clean up.

-----------------------★

No doubt I may have missed something important or failed to account for a specific threat which someone will probably point out who is better than me at OU. But this team should serve you well on the ladder and should take you to at least the 1600's if you play well.

I hope I helped you out! ★
Feel free to message me or reply to this if you have any questions about the changes I've made.

 

[chiara_t]

Hey there,

Just a preface, OU isn't my main tier, but I noticed no-one was giving you help - soo...
Your team could use some improvements as some of the sets & pokemon you are using do not fit on this team. Your Manectric weakness can also be fixed pretty easily.

Thanks for the help, really well-written too! Your suggestions are all really on-point, I actually made some changes after posting here, got some help at RMT room, and some of those were similar to what you pointed out.

1.

#1 You have no weaville switch in

Damn you're right. Even though Breloom can easily revenge kill weavile, I had no switch in and my only way dealing with this was let 1 mon die for free switch. Realized this and changed torn-t>weavile for the weavile switch in but obviously didn't work well. Was considering keldeo

really hard but thought it fills the same role with manaphy, but you're really on point in that Keld actually relieves so much pressure. Will do exactly what you suggested.

2.

#2 Your Manectric weakness

and

#3 No electric immunity / Late game cleaner

I did change Mew

>Latios

, but made it my late game cleaner too, and used excadrill for the elec immunity with those sets:

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Trick

M-mane check and choice scarf to make latios a revenge killer/cleaner

Excadrill @ Air Baloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

electric immunity, tanks stuff, and rapid spin over defog on lati so my own hazard doesn't disappear

but at a glance your lati set and Landorus>Excadrill seems stronger too, because it doesn't need balloon and can be the scarfer instead.

3.

#4 Minor set changes ★

Manaphy

set:

Manaphy @ Leftovers

Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psychic
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance

Did exactly that. Psychic is just more consistent than ice beam. My only concern now is loss of ice beam means it's harder to deal with dragons, most notably dragonite who runs earthquake and KOs diancie on predicted switch, and also opposing Latias/Latios with surf. And doesn't Latios already deal with M-venu and amoonguss, and mega-x can't switch into diancie. thoughts?

Diancie

set:

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite

Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 32 Atk / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Sharpen
- Protect / Rock polish

makes a lot of sense too. Rock Polish is cool, but too hard to pull of with diancie's miserable bulk. will stick with protect.

now after the changes, because of loss of breloom there is one thing I notice:
Rotom-W

weakness. Ah, the annoying little pivot. My switch in is only latios as this thing heavily dents Keld/Manaphy

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 170-204 (52.6 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 158-188 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

while straight up rekt the other 3

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 170-204 (44 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
3HKO isn't bad, but Tran has no way to fight back.

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 296-350 (92.7 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 254-300 (105.3 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

to have something else to deal with rotom-w outside of latios, maybe mold breaker excadrill>landorus-t after all?

lastly thanks a lot for helping even though it's not your main tier, really appreciate it!

 

[aki0s]

Thanks for the help, really well-written too! Your suggestions are all really on-point, I actually made some changes after posting here, got some help at RMT room, and some of those were similar to what you pointed out.

1.
Damn you're right. Even though Breloom can easily revenge kill weavile, I had no switch in and my only way dealing with this was let 1 mon die for free switch. Realized this and changed torn-t>weavile for the weavile switch in but obviously didn't work well. Was considering keldeo

really hard but thought it fills the same role with manaphy, but you're really on point in that Keld actually relieves so much pressure. Will do exactly what you suggested.

2. and
I did change Mew

>Latios

, but made it my late game cleaner too, and used excadrill for the elec immunity with those sets:

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Trick

M-mane check and choice scarf to make latios a revenge killer/cleaner

Excadrill @ Air Baloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

electric immunity, tanks stuff, and rapid spin over defog on lati so my own hazard doesn't disappear

but at a glance your lati set and Landorus>Excadrill seems stronger too, because it doesn't need balloon and can be the scarfer instead.

3.
Manaphy

set:


Did exactly that. Psychic is just more consistent than ice beam. My only concern now is loss of ice beam means it's harder to deal with dragons, most notably dragonite who runs earthquake and KOs diancie on predicted switch, and also opposing Latias/Latios with surf. And doesn't Latios already deal with M-venu and amoonguss, and mega-x can't switch into diancie. thoughts?

Diancie

set:

makes a lot of sense too. Rock Polish is cool, but too hard to pull of with diancie's miserable bulk. will stick with protect.

now after the changes, because of loss of breloom there are 2 things I notice:
1.Rotom-W

weakness because of loss of breloom. Ah, the annoying little pivot. My switch in is only latios as this thing heavily dents Keld/Manaphy

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 170-204 (52.6 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 158-188 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

while straight up rekt the other 3

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 170-204 (44 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
3HKO isn't bad, but Tran has no way to fight back.

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 296-350 (92.7 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 254-300 (105.3 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

to have something else to deal with rotom-w outside of latios, maybe mold breaker excadrill>landorus-t after all?

lastly thanks a lot for helping even though it's not your main tier, really appreciate it!

Hey! I'm glad to hear I'm sort of on the right line with these things. :D

You're totally right about the Manaphy thing! Ice beam should be fine over psychic if you feel confident enough with handling M-Venu & Amoonguss with Latios. But, adding ice beam makes your Rotom-W matchup tougher. So your choice.

Latios isn't the worst Rotom-W answer, but I see why you might have second thoughts about it being your only check, especially if they have a Tyranitar. So to remedy the Rotom-W weakness (and the only thing I can think of without altering the team as it is too much) is to change knock off on landorus-T to explosion. This might sound weird, but it lets you weaken Rotom-W to the extent where Heatran can deal with it after a rock switch or where Keldeo can OHKO with secret sword. The damage from explosion makes it easier to revenge kill and it won't be able to pivot into your pokemon easily afterwards. Example calc:
252 Atk Landorus-T Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 203-239 (66.9 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Dragonite is in general tough to deal with. Changing psychic -> ice beam on Manaphy can help, running Icy wind on Keldeo can be nice too. But as it stands it's a problematic pokemon for this team (like you said). The only way I could see it being handled reliably is if you switch out Heatran for Spdef Talonflame, change choice scarf Landorus-T to Physically defensive Landorus-T & subsequently changing Keldeo back to Breloom. This makes Weaville a bit tougher to deal with, but helps your matchup versus Dragonite & Rotom-W.
But, I think changing Hydro pump or Focus blast on Keldeo to Icy wind will help a ton versus it. Otherwise, you can try to lock it into outrage by baiting it with Latios and then revenge killing with Diancie. If it's dragon claw Dragonite, then yeah there's not much you can do. :'(

Mold breaker Exca could be interesting! I think if you want to try it out just change Keldeo -> Breloom for a ground resist. It makes dealing with Weaville a bit tougher, but it's not impossible by any means.

If you want to know more about the changes I mentioned (the Talon/Lando/Breloom) just let me know. But I hope these things help, I'm really out of my element here.

e: Thanks for the comment on my writing ^_^

 

[chiara_t]

Hey! I'm glad to hear I'm sort of on the right line with these things. :D

You're totally right about the Manaphy thing! Ice beam should be fine over psychic if you feel confident enough with handling M-Venu & Amoonguss with Latios. But, adding ice beam makes your Rotom-W matchup tougher. So your choice.

Latios isn't the worst Rotom-W answer, but I see why you might have second thoughts about it being your only check, especially if they have a Tyranitar. So to remedy the Rotom-W weakness (and the only thing I can think of without altering the team as it is too much) is to change knock off on landorus-T to explosion. This might sound weird, but it lets you weaken Rotom-W to the extent where Heatran can deal with it after a rock switch or where Keldeo can OHKO with secret sword. The damage from explosion makes it easier to revenge kill and it won't be able to pivot into your pokemon easily afterwards. Example calc:
252 Atk Landorus-T Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 203-239 (66.9 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Dragonite is in general tough to deal with. Changing psychic -> ice beam on Manaphy can help, running Icy wind on Keldeo can be nice too. But as it stands it's a problematic pokemon for this team (like you said). The only way I could see it being handled reliably is if you switch out Heatran for Spdef Talonflame, change choice scarf Landorus-T to Physically defensive Landorus-T & subsequently changing Keldeo back to Breloom. This makes Weaville a bit tougher to deal with, but helps your matchup versus Dragonite & Rotom-W.
But, I think changing Hydro pump or Focus blast on Keldeo to Icy wind will help a ton versus it. Otherwise, you can try to lock it into outrage by baiting it with Latios and then revenge killing with Diancie. If it's dragon claw Dragonite, then yeah there's not much you can do. :'(

Mold breaker Exca could be interesting! I think if you want to try it out just change Keldeo -> Breloom for a ground resist. It makes dealing with Weaville a bit tougher, but it's not impossible by any means.

If you want to know more about the changes I mentioned (the Talon/Lando/Breloom) just let me know. But I hope these things help, I'm really out of my element here.

e: Thanks for the comment on my writing ^_^

Thanks again for the reply and going out of your way when it's your main tier! Rotom-w isn't that much of a treat afterall except when my latios gets pursuit-trapped and icy wind on keldeo helps a lot so far. Your inputs have been helpful and I think most of the threats and potential answers have been covered here, my team feels better already and will try things out more to see what fits best!

 

[aki0s]

Thanks again for the reply and going out of your way when it's your main tier! Rotom-w isn't that much of a treat afterall except when my latios gets pursuit-trapped and icy wind on keldeo helps a lot so far. Your inputs have been helpful and I think most of the threats and potential answers have been covered here, my team feels better already and will try things out more to see what fits best!

Glad to hear! And it's no trouble at all.