National Dex Bisharp + Scizor-M Webs HO

Saw the Bisharp + Scizor-M core on the Natdex Good Cores thread and wanted to give it a try, noticed that they both had pretty meh speed stats so I decided to make a webs team to support them!

The Team
https://pokepast.es/25657c26b3cf06a7
:bisharp: :scizor: :manaphy: :blacephalon: :landorus-therian: :ribombee:


Explanations
:bisharp: This mon can be extremely threatening. Its ability, Defiant, allows it to punish Intimidate, Defog, opposing web teams, and in the offchance that it comes in on a Shadow Ball or a Moonblast and has any stats lowered, with a +2 attack boost. Those first two are the most important, as punishing Defog on a team so reliant on hazards like this one is very important. Sucker Punch is a great priority move and can hit flying types/levitate users/other mons who avoid webs through other means if you predict correctly.

:scizor: Scizor and Bisharp both look as if they'd go poorly together, both being steels and all, however they have their synergy. While Bish has trouble hitting other Dark types, Sciz can hit them with a Technician-boosted STAB Bug Bite and make them hurt. While Bish is also bad at threatening fighting types, Scizor tears through them with Technician-boosted Dual Wingbeats. Conversely, Scizor is scared of Intimidate, but guess just what Bisharp loves!

:manaphy: Unfortunately, both of these types do have a common weakness, and that is to Fire. Fortnuately, Manaphy can help with that role! It's base 100 speed stat isn't exactly threatening under normal circumstances, but on webs, it's dangerous! That, combined with good bulk, a diverse movepool, and access to one of the best setup moves in the game makes it a great choice for this team.

:blacephalon: This team wanted a couple more things. A spinblocker to keep those webs up, and a Fire type to threaten those Steels that this team has been pretty lackluster on up to this point. Calm Mind lets it gain a greater offensive and defensive presence. I gave it HDB as to not lose HP from rocks, as my team was otherwise not too threatened by rocks and couldn't really fit any hazard removal due to stacking weaknesses to both ground and fire, which I did not want. I could've used Donphan for that tbf, but it lacks setup moves and speed to be offensively threatening alongside my other mons. But yeah, Blacephalon is threatening and Beast Boost only pushes that further.

:landorus-therian: Landorus on this team is an offensive sweeper with Stealth Rocks. EQ hit's everything except for whatever SE can also hit. It's typing (ground+flying) allows it to also serve a great defensive role on this team while maintaining offensive pressure. Intimidate pushes this further, as a large amount of physical mons begin hitting like wet gloves after one. And of course, Stealth Rocks creates additional offensive pressure, which the opponent doesn't want to defog away, because then it'll make Bisharp even scarier.

:ribombee: Lastly, we need the actual web setter, lol. This mon doesn't do much besides set webs. It can paralyze the opponent with Stun Spore, get out if it needs to with U-Turn (letting it set up webs later should the opponent sneak in a Defog or Rapid Spin, or if it gets taunted) and hurt the opponent with Moonblast. It's speed is great, however, so while there will be games where you just get webs up and die, usually you can at least paralyze your opponent as well.
 
Last edited:

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Hey! I noticed this team has been sitting here for quite a while and decided to see how I could improve it. I'm going to start with a few minor changes and then progress into the more major ones.

Minor Changes:

:Bisharp:
Considering you're running Sticky Web, Bisharp can afford being Adamant. I personally prefer Black Glasses over Life Orb as Bisharp has no method of recovery but that's completely optional.

:Scizor-Mega:
Mega Scizor doesn't really need full speed and only enough to outspeed Magnezone and specially defensive Heatran. This may seem useless since it's a Sticky Web team but in the odd scenario it can save you. (Unable to set Sticky Web, defogged, Shuckle's under pressure, etc.) Superpower is essential on offensive Scizor to deal with Magnezone and Heatran and Dual Wingbeat does everything Bug Bite needs to do.

:Blacephalon:
I changed the EVs so it boosts speed every time it faints a Pokemon instead of special attack. This can be really useful for Pokemon immune to Sticky Web and Calm Mind already gives you special attack boosts.

:Landorus-Therian:
Flyinium Z makes it a really powerful wallbreaker allowing you to deal with Fighting-types like Zapdos-G and Mega Medicham and just pressure defensive teams in general

Major Changes:

:Ribombee: -> :Shuckle:
Ribombee can be quite nice since it's able to temporarily disable abilities with Skill Swap + Honey Gather as well as paralyze your opponents. However, Shuckle is a lot bulkier and is able to set Stealth Rock to help your sweepers.

:Manaphy: -> :Tapu Lele:
Tapu Lele is exceptional on Sticky Web teams due to it's middling speed tier and ability to disable priority moves. This can be troubling with Bullet Punch and Sucker Punch but it's worth the nuclear special attack it brings to the table. It also gives you a way to deal with Hydreigon which other wise is extremely threatening.

https://pokepast.es/32b1bafb606ba1a7
 
:Ribombee: -> :Shuckle:
Ribombee can be quite nice since it's able to temporarily disable abilities with Skill Swap + Honey Gather as well as paralyze your opponents. However, Shuckle is a lot bulkier and is able to set Stealth Rock to help your sweepers.
Why have Final Gambit on Shuckle when you're expecting it to get 2KO'd and also running Mental Herb to deny Taunt? At best, it could get a mon down to 75% and at worst, it's a dead slot. Toxic works way better. Also I personally prefer Custap Berry over Mental Herb since that's more against anti-leads anyways, and Custap near guarantees that you'll setup both Rocks and Webs. I also think that the original Ribombee is better for this team since most times, it's a sack to just to get webs up and helps gain immediate momentum. While Shuckle can switched into easier and can't deal with defoggers as well other than encore.
 
Why have Final Gambit on Shuckle when you're expecting it to get 2KO'd and also running Mental Herb to deny Taunt? At best, it could get a mon down to 75% and at worst, it's a dead slot. Toxic works way better. Also I personally prefer Custap Berry over Mental Herb since that's more against anti-leads anyways, and Custap near guarantees that you'll setup both Rocks and Webs. I also think that the original Ribombee is better for this team since most times, it's a sack to just to get webs up and helps gain immediate momentum. While Shuckle can switched into easier and can't deal with defoggers as well other than encore.
The point of final gambit is not to KO an opposing mon, but instead to generate momentum for the team once hazards have been set. I don't think that Custap berry is that good on shuckle because it is actually pretty bulky, and can survive a lot of super effective attacks. Custap berry maybe useful if you're facing a powerful water like ash-greninja, but I think that's not likely to occur.

Honestly though, I think that ribombee and shuckle both work for this team.
 
The point of final gambit is not to KO an opposing mon, but instead to generate momentum for the team once hazards have been set.
What like a suicide lead? Ok I see some merit in Final Gambit. I just think it's not great on bulky mons since you'd try to use their bulk and not completely sack them once rocks are down. What, you survive maybe two hits from Lando, then have little opportunity to kill yourself next turn since you used your health placing down hazards. Even if you did have enough health left to use Gambit, you failed to actually produce momentum since the threat that killed you still remains with most of their health intact. This is also why I still prefer Toxic over Gambit since you can poison mons and in the same 3KO situation, Toxic is far better at gaining advantage and disabling threats.

Shuckle's bulk is great and you shouldn't squander it by making it a suicide lead. Either add Toxic on Shuck, or use Ribombee for faster web setup.

I don't think that Custap berry is that good on shuckle because it is actually pretty bulky, and can survive a lot of super effective attacks.
Yeah that's what makes Custap good: you bulk hits while setting hazards and by the time they're setup, you're down to less then 33% HP and can trigger Custap to either Gambit, Toxic your opponent, Encore them into a bad move, or setup hazards if you failed to originally setup. The only thing that stops you completely is Prio. moves.
 

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
What like a suicide lead? Ok I see some merit in Final Gambit. I just think it's not great on bulky mons since you'd try to use their bulk and not completely sack them once rocks are down. What, you survive maybe two hits from Lando, then have little opportunity to kill yourself next turn since you used your health placing down hazards. Even if you did have enough health left to use Gambit, you failed to actually produce momentum since the threat that killed you still remains with most of their health intact. This is also why I still prefer Toxic over Gambit since you can poison mons and in the same 3KO situation, Toxic is far better at gaining advantage and disabling threats.

Shuckle's bulk is great and you shouldn't squander it by making it a suicide lead. Either add Toxic on Shuck, or use Ribombee for faster web setup.


Yeah that's what makes Custap good: you bulk hits while setting hazards and by the time they're setup, you're down to less then 33% HP and can trigger Custap to either Gambit, Toxic your opponent, Encore them into a bad move, or setup hazards if you failed to originally setup. The only thing that stops you completely is Prio. moves.
It's HO, you practically always use a suicide lead.
 
It's HO, you practically always use a suicide lead.
yeah but Shuckle isn't a great one since it's really slow, thus requiring Custap to kill itself and since you suggested Mental Herb it won't really get the chance to actually use Gambit unless the opponent's doing something more game ruining like defogging or building.

As I said Ribombee (hell, even Galvantula) is better since at least you can spread status like Stun or Toxic easier after running out sash.
 

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
yeah but Shuckle isn't a great one since it's really slow, thus requiring Custap to kill itself and since you suggested Mental Herb it won't really get the chance to actually use Gambit unless the opponent's doing something more game ruining like defogging or building.

As I said Ribombee (hell, even Galvantula) is better since at least you can spread status like Stun or Toxic easier after running out sash.
At the cost of not being able to set Stealth Rock. Both have their pros and cons
 
Yeah that's what makes Custap good: you bulk hits while setting hazards and by the time they're setup, you're down to less then 33% HP and can trigger Custap to either Gambit, Toxic your opponent, Encore them into a bad move, or setup hazards if you failed to originally setup. The only thing that stops you completely is Prio. moves.
Custap berry actually activates at 1/4 HP. IMO, custap is worse than mental herb because it allows you to avoid taunt, which more useful.
 
:Ribombee: -> :Shuckle:
Ribombee can be quite nice since it's able to temporarily disable abilities with Skill Swap + Honey Gather as well as paralyze your opponents. However, Shuckle is a lot bulkier and is able to set Stealth Rock to help your sweepers.
Not super relevant, but shouldn’t you use shield dust to prevent Fake Out? Rimbombee’s moves don’t have any super important side effects
 

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Not super relevant, but shouldn’t you use shield dust to prevent Fake Out? Rimbombee’s moves don’t have any super important side effects
Both are useful, Shield Dust definitely helps you check Mega Lopunny but Honey Gather allows you to force switches or atleast hinder the Pokemon so your sweepers can setup easier.
 

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