Bling-Blingdra, Capitalizing on his wake.

Ucal

I started with Kingdra Lead. Kingdra is extremely effective, sacrificing the chance at stopping stealth rocks for a chance at an early game sweep. Built a team from memory, and it worked semi decently. After some experiments though, I found Celebi works extremely well with this set. I started with a status inducing Celebi, mainly because I was attempting an information gathering team based around a Magmortar perfect prediction sweep. That failed horribly :D.

Anyways, Celebi works extremely well with Heatran, and Heatran itself works extremely well with Scizor. So those two came in, Heatran operating on a more defensive set (still on the Magmortar kick here), and Scizor acting as the physical sweeper backup for magmortar. At this point I needed a stealth rocker, and I chose Empoleon. It offered Roar, which would help with my information gathering. Finally, I had a Magnezone as a secondary special sweeper. The 6th slot ran the gamut, from electrivire to Magnezone to Dugtrio.

Team failed horribly, but I decided the Kingdra, Scizor-Celebi-Heatran core was doing well. After more playtesting, I realized the most frustrating thing was having something explode on my Kingdra after a DD or yawn. So I added a ghost, a Mismagius as opposed to a Gengar because of it's better bulk. Because Mismagius is more special defense than physical, I switched Empoleon to a Gligar, loosing roar, but gaining an Electric immunity. So far I think the team is doing pretty good.

kingdra.png


Kingdra @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Dragon Dance
- Yawn
- Waterfall
- Outrage

I wish I could claim credit for this set, but I can't. I wish even more I could remember who told me about it, or created it. All I know is that when I took up shoddy, I remembered this. The basic plan is to Yawn or Dragon Dance when most leads are Stealth Rocking. Against faster taunt users (Aerodactyl) I go on offense right away as they're usually fragile enough to 2HKO (stupid focus sash). If they stay in on the Yawn, proceed to DD once or twice more, and sweep. It is simply amazing, and with a team that isn't very stealth rocks weak, allowing them to get it off is pretty inconsequential.

Against common leads.
These are the categories of leads that I commonly run into:

Trickscarfers: Switch to Mismagius.

Taunters: Offense right away, unless for some odd reason I think I can get away with a yawn.

Heavy offense: Yawn. Kingdra is bulky enough to survive most hits, and most trainers don't want to have a sleeping offense. They usually switch.

Fast Status: I hate dealing with these. Roserade is particularly bad for me. Most have a focus sash, so I yawn first, and DD, hoping they don't stay in.

Stealth Rockers. Just DD. If they're an exploder, switch to Mismagius.


mismagius.png

Mismagius @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Sp.A / 252 Spe
Nature:Modest
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder Bolt
- Hidden Power Ground

I love this guy. Trickscarf Leads annoy me. Mismagius laughs in their faces when I switch him in. Exploding leads annoy me. Mismagius would laugh in their faces, but they usually aren't around anymore. The three immunities make him so easy to bring in, and he usually lures out a wall (usually a blissey) that is ruined by tricking a scarf onto it. The ability to ruin special walls lets Heatran and Celebi wreck that much more havoc. And when the situation arises, his attacking moves aren't too shabby either.

gliscor.png


Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 42 Def / 216 Spe
Nature:
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Pretty standard set I think. the EVs allow him to outspeed most lucarios, though Lucario's haven't posed too much of a problem to my team, so I may change those. Still it has been useful to be able to outspeed them when they do show up. Sets up Stealth Rocks, because let's face it, it's a great move. Offers an Electric resist, though as Kingdra is usually down by the time this comes out, that isn't too relevent. Acts as a physical wall with surprisingly good offensive power.

celebi.png


Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 32 Spe / 246 Sp.A
Nature: Modest
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic

I know the STABS aren't very attractive options for offense, but if you think about it, they work for this team. The most likely switch in to Kingdra is whatever steel type the opponent can throw at it. These are usually heavily damaged, or KO'd by Kingdra. Every steel type that is removed increases Celebi's effectiveness with it's STABs that much more. Thunder Wave is just good fun, as switches out of Celebi are astoundingly easy to predict.


heatran.png


Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Will o Wisp
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast

Celebi baits Fire and Dark Moves, both of which Heatran can switch in on. Conversely, Heatran baits ground moves, which Celebi can switch in on. The two go hand in hand I think. I'm probably going to end up running some other set of Heatran though. It's been doing good, but Earth Power and Fire Blast are both risky moves given how prevalent levatators and opposing Heatran are. Wil o Wisp hasn't been as useful as it could be.


scizor.png


Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 250 HP / 252 Att / 8 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Super Power
- Pursuit

I'm thinking of switching this to Lucario, or to a SD Scizor set with life orb (both so it can still threaten a CB, and the increased damage). Right now it hasn't been pulling it's weight except as the rare bullet punch victory, a couple of U-Turn scouts, and Fire Bait.



Overall, I've observed a few major problems. I don't have a rapid spinner. Stealth Rocks is not a problem. But Spikes are. Because spikes usually means a team ready to take advantage of them. Toxic spikes are especially bad, because they come with a pokemon that can come out on top against Kingdra: Roserade.

Choice Scarf Latias is a big problem as well. It outspeeds and KOs a Kingdra with +1 speed. It switches into with impunity into a bunch of my pokemon actually. Perhaps a weavile instead of Scizor? Ice Shard would go a long way towards fixing a general dragon weakness once Kingdra is down (I haven't had to worry too much about dragons, as most people switch them into Kingdra, not expecting the hell it can raise). Pursuit is always nice too. It also baits fire and fighting attacks. This would serve to make my team a bit more weak to entry hazards though, so I'm not too sure.
 
Hi,

One thing I notice first is the use of Mismagius on the team. Sure its UU and it works wonders in that tier, but in OU its outclassed by better ghosts like Rotom, Gengar, and Dusknoir: even TrickScarfers. With that in mind, I really suggest switching Mismagius to Rotom-H:

Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
~ Thunderbolt
~ Overheat
~ Hidden Power Ground / Shadow Ball
~ Trick

This set uses the exact same moveset as your Mismagius set, with of course Overheat, its specialty move. Rotom-H has a few advantages over Mismagius, which is why its one of the highest used in OU. One, it has a quite useful Electric/Ghost typing, resisting Electric attacks that would hit Mismagius for neutral. Also, its typing gives it STAB on its Thunderbolt. Secondly, Special Attack and Special Attack are slightly higher, and Defense is considerably higher, allowing it to take hits much more easily and last throughout the match, functioning as your primary revenge killer. Finally, it carries overheat, giving it the ability to scare off Scizor that would love to switch into Mismagius with ease.

You have some trouble with DD Gyara. Since your team has the nice defensive CeleTran core, I don't want to change around any pokemon. A simple solution to that could be to make Celebi more defensive oriented to take any of Gyarados's main attacks with ease.

Celebi @ Leftovers
252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
~ Leech Seed / Thunder Wave
~ Grass Knot/Leaf Storm
~ Recover
~ Hidden Power Ice

Grass Knot and Leaf Storm still heavily dents Gyarados. Now you also have Thunder Wave and Hidden Power Ice to hit Salamence on the switch in. The Defensive EVs give Celebi the most bulk on the defensive side while still outspeeding Tyranitar. Celebi is a great utility to use on this team.

Finally, just a note, CS Latias shouldn't be a huge problem, because you have Scizor to Pursuit kill it after its done its damage.

gl with the team
 
I agree with frogbandit, however, I have a few comments.

I think that Kingdra would be better off replaced as a:
Gyarados @ leftovers
248 hp / 248 def / 12 spe
Waterfall / Stone Edge / Rest / Sleep talk

This would allow you to have a better defensive core, giving you another status absorber. In addition, the intimidate from gyara will help you, as well as providing a ground immunity. Then, put Gliscor as the lead.
 
I think that this is a pretty good team all around. However this team has some big problems with MixMence carrying Flamethrower, so I would change Heatran to Gyarados using this set.

Gyarados@Life Orb
252atk/252spd/4hp
Adamant Nature
-Ice Fang
-Waterfall
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
Ice Fang hits, more importantly, MixMence, but less importantly, Dragonite, and other dragons. Waterfall is for reliable STAB, and incapacitates all the ground types that you can switch in on. Dragon Dance is for letting it outspeed many pokemon that would normally outstrip it, and to gain many OHKO's. Earthquake is for the Electivire and Machamp that assume they have a free switch in.
 
He's not a noob. When Visser posted, the Gyrados looked like this:

Gyarados@Life Orb
252atk/252spd/4hp
Adamant Nature
-Ice Fang
-Outrage
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake

After that, in an attempt to save face StealthFire edited his post and then tried to call him out based on his edited post. If you don't believe me, just look at the posting and editing times.
 
Bloody Rayne said:
I think he thinks Dragon Dance does damage. Just ignore the n00blet.
Click to expand...

Nah, I don't think that's it. I think he's complaining about the semi redundancy of coverage with Outrage and Ice Fang. Both hit dragons, which are the intended targets I think. Though, I would prefer waterfall over Outrage myself I think. With STAB, it has the same BP as Outrage, with flinchhax and no confusion. Ice / Dragon gets walled by Steel, and while Earthquake helps with that, it doesn't help against Bronzong. Ice / Water only hits Water types for half damage, everything else is at least neutral. Earthquake definitely helps with overcoming that one weakness. Of course, I'm referring to the set that I could have sworn Stealth Fire posted before he edited his post. I definitely seem to recall reading something about Outrage being for pure power in the post. No worries dude, everyone makes mistakes, you shouldn't have to hide them.

Back on topic. I recently tried out a swords dance scizor and scarf heatran. Didn't work out as well as I hoped. I think I'm going to go back to Band Scizor, switch out Heatran for a bit for the Gyarados mentioned (except waterfall instead of Outrage for the reasons above). I switched my Celebi to the set mentioned above.

About Rotom. It definitely has potential. I'll try it out as soon as I can overcome my disgust with using an appliance themed pokemon. Seriously? Ghost heaters? Were they on crack when they started making platinum?

EDIT: DeutscherStahl beat me to it. Ah well, here's for corroboration.
 
Rotom-A can be a better option over Mismagius in Standard with better resistances and what not. For Heatran, Leftovers and Toxic can be a another option which proves good use. Protect can be used over Waterfall and then you can switch to Heatran when a Steel type comes along.
 
I played this team yesterday :). Kingdra is good, don't change it in for a Gyara. I almost let it sweep my team. I do agree that you should use Rotom instead of Mismagius, and why doesn't Gliscor have a nature?

Since you said you have a spikes problem, mabye you should use a Taunt gliscor and make him your lead?
 
Tried out Gyarados. Didn't work out that well. I think it's mainly because by switching in Gyarados for Heatran, I lose a special attacker, and gain a physical, bringing the total to 3-1. With the prevalence of wallish teams in the game today, having an imbalance that way means I can get walled extremely easily.

I switched Heatran back in, and made it the trapper set mentioned in another thread. I'm debating between hidden power grass and Earth Power. It's moveset now is HP grass/Magma Storm/Dragon Pulse/Taunt. It gives my team even more tank busting power, and Magma Storm is just a good move to spam in general (does great damage even to those that resist it).

I experimented with roserade and tangrowth instead of Celebi, but in the end I had to come back to Celebi. Great pokemon. Right now I'm using a swords dance Scizor, but I think it's under performing. When I send it in, It usually gets a swords dance and a bullet punch off before it runs into a heavily defensive steel type that resists and outspeeds it. Considering switching to a swords dance weavile set. Less Magnezone bait, offers pursuit, priority. Still baits Fire moves, but also baits Fighting moves too.
 
hmmm I've never tryed Kingdra as a lead but if it works as well as you say it does then keep it.

You could probably try CS Gengar> CS Mismagius, higher speed, special attack, and it gets focus blast to take on Tyranitar.

You are pretty stall weak (with the exception of maybe Kingra and trick). I think getting taunt on Gliscor over stone edge would help with this a tad bit. stone Edge dosent even KO Mence or Gyara after SR iirc factoring in intimidate. you could also try explosion on Heatran to accomodate this
 
Doesn't SD Scizor stop the Kingdra plan?

You DD, they switch into Scizor. You can't OHKO him no matter what, and he can threaten OHKO with Bug Bite BP if you lock into Outrage. If you're Waterfall he can threaten Heatran with Superpower and Gliscor is threatened if he SD's on the switch.

I'm just wondering what's the correct course of action in this scenario since the setup lead is an interesting prospect. I think LO over Lum on Kingdra would make it a moot point, though.
 
eA-Zaku said:
Doesn't SD Scizor stop the Kingdra plan?

You DD, they switch into Scizor. You can't OHKO him no matter what, and he can threaten OHKO with Bug Bite BP if you lock into Outrage. If you're Waterfall he can threaten Heatran with Superpower and Gliscor is threatened if he SD's on the switch.

I'm just wondering what's the correct course of action in this scenario since the setup lead is an interesting prospect. I think LO over Lum on Kingdra would make it a moot point, though.
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I don't like LO, because status is all too common when you're just trying to set up. Scizor demonstrates a problem in that he can either set up, or be a choice band set. Given that this is very early in the match, there's no way to tell. So you have to run something that can switch into a setter upper, or a banded threat, and either stop the set up, or force a switch.

You have to get the big threats. Most of these are physical sets, (there are special setter uppers, but in my experience, they are fewer and farer between). I use a variety of these. Heatran bluffs a scarf, and threatens scizor. Mismagius OHKOs and outspeeds a single DD Gyarados. Gliscor can handle more.

The tricky thing is not to get locked into an outrage unless you're prepared to lose kingdra. Depending on their lead, it might be worth it. If you think there's a good chance they'll stay in and the outrage will KO them for example.
 
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