Buff Process 3 - Stage 3 - Buff Package Poll 1

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Wulfanator

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And now it's time for the polls. Remember that these changes will impact Miasmaw. Here's the reasoning for every option on this slate:
Dex's was the tamest submission of the entire slate. The small stat adjustments make its speed tier more favorable into matchups against Tapu lele and Urshifu-R. SpD was increased to help take some attacks more favorably. The calc provided shows it taking a Tapu Fini Moonblast, but this SpD also helps into something like Ice Beam from Slowbro. U-turn was a rather universal addition for most submission. It is valuable utility and alleviates some of the issues regarding needing to predict once in. Dragon Darts rounds off the set by providing Miasmaw with a nice power increase without having to further increase its absurd attack stat.

Voltage's submission was next to be slated. U-turn and a minor speed increase are also present in this adjustment, but the most notable changes come from the increase to SpD and Gunk Shot. The power increase from Poison Jab is very noticeable and gives Miasmaw a great option into fairies that would stall its progress. The change in SpD helps Miasmaw take a slew of attacks more reliably, and, in conjunction with its coverage, it should be able to force switches more easily.

Darek's suggestions was more extreme than the previous two but was very direct in what it aimed to accomplish. The goal of the speed tier was to allow for Miasmaw to out speed Urshifu without sacrificing the power of Adamant. Should people continue to use band, this will be a more favorable spread. If not band, Jolly gets the jump on Astrolotl which will be nice for Heavy-Duty Boots sets. Darts, again, gives a nice power increase to STAB, and U-turn is just a no-brainer. U-turn is made even better with the faster speed tier.

The last of the U-Turn army, Shnowshner. Shnowsher's changes adds additional utility in the form of Knock Off. The speed increase bumps it to base 110. It aims to do a similar thing to Darek's by out speeding while running an Adamant nature, but the matchup of choice is strictly Tapu Lele. The SpD adjustment guarantees some of the roles that +11 fails to ensure, but difference isn't that noticeable. This spread stood out because it did not have any raw power adjustments with new coverage of STAB moves.

Finally and probably the most controversial, Pip's type change. After the discussion had in this thread, bug was arguably more of a burden than a help to Miasmaw's cause. The removal of the rocks weakness enables it to run more offensive items without being punished for it. The removal of setup may or may not be a good call simply because we cannot accurately gauge how this type of change will land without playtest data. This will hopefully be a palatable option for users concerned about flavor and type changes from the buff process.

Final Submission

+U-turn
+11 SpD
+6 Spe
+Dragon Darts
-17 SpA

The basis for this buff is fairly straightforward: allow Miasmaw to generate momentum via U-turn and its coverage. I would imagine a set for this mon would be something like this:

Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
- U-turn
- Dragon Darts
- Poison Jab
- Taunt / Recover / Earthquake

This goes all in on Miasmaw's excellent stallbreaking potential with Neutralizing Gas. Poison Jab allows it to fish for a poison against Clefable, which it would then proceed to beat. Dragon Darts is given in support of Band sets and also to do more damage to Arghonaut. Originally I had Gunk Shot added too, but I feel like Poison Jab is honestly the better move due to accuracy. The extra SpD allows it to take max SpA Tapu Fini's Moonblast from full with no investment:

252 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 260-308 (83.6 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

U-turn allows Miasmaw to generate momentum on Regen pivots it likes to switch into.

Speed increase is so that you can pivot on Urshifu-R.
FINAL SUBMISSION

+ U-turn
+ Wild Charge
+ Gunk Shot
+ 7 Spe (92 -> 99)
+ 20 SpD (85 -> 105)
- 27 SpA (115 -> 88)



Admittedly, my spread isn't that much different than what a lot of people have suggested. As previous posts have noted, Miasmaw lacks a "spammable move" that so many wallbreakers enjoy, so by giving it U-Turn, Miasmaw can punish pivots while also providing some pivoting itself. I know that during the process we were hesitant of making Miasmaw the premier pivot by invalidating others, but I think with this buff package, Miasmaw will act similarly to Dragapult, but being slower and more physically offensive. U-turn allows for forward progression.

I think Wild Charge is especially useful for the justification Jordy and Quziel provided. The coverage of Bug / Dragon / (Ground/Fighting) / Electric is actually good coverage, and Wild Charge offers coverage at the cost of longevity which to me is a fair trade-off. Miasmaw already has some pretty serious 4MSS, so it forces the player to choose between a greater offensive presence, and longevity. Gunk Shot is a similar choice because it gives Miasmaw a reasonable option to hit Fairies that it outspeeds, and generates more offensive pressure than Poison Jab.

I opted for 99 Speed instead of 98 speed so that we're guaranteed faster than Timid unboosted Hydreigon, giving Miasmaw a defined speed tier, while still being slower than any three digit Base Speed Pokemon. I'm not ultra-married to this if people prefer 98 Spe instead to tie with other Base 98s

Adding 20 SpD ensures that an uninvested Miasmaw will be able to reliably switch into Heatran at least once whether that's a Magma Storm or even a full-power Eruption. It also lets Miasmaw live a Hurricane from Tornadus-Therian, and mandates that Miasmaw run at least 4 SpD as to not risk the OHKO from Venomicon-P.

Removing 27 SpA is done to maintain a total BST and focus more on Miasmaw's physical capabilities, while not completely destroying its potential to use powerful Special Attacking moves like Draco Meteor if they so desire. I personally think we should lean into the plethora of physical attacking options that Miasmaw has, and this package still allows us to run a plethora of options without worrying about contact damage from abilities like Iron Barbs.

I've opted to not include Knock Off or Toxic in this package if only because I think Knock + U-Turn is a niche already easily filled by Tornadus-Therian which objectively does that move combination better. I understand the merit of Choice Banded Knock Off + U-turn, and I also understand that Miasmaw is being oriented more as a stallbreaker than Tornadus-Therian, but I think that Miasmaw's coverage with these buffs is more than enough to warrant a niche in the metagame.

Like Dex, I think a set with HDB will become the most viable option, though there's still definitely merit to running a Banded Fimp set with U-turn and then two coverage moves. There's room for creativity as well, especially since Miasmaw maintains Recover, Taunt, and some interesting coverage. I think this entry is pretty conservative with all the other spreads being posted, but I also think it's a reasonable buff package all the same.
Ok so basically here's what we should do:

Final Submission

+U-Turn, +Dragon Darts -Swords Dance
+23 Spe(92 ->115)
- 23 Spa(115 -> 92)


This enables 2 sets:

Miasmaw @ Choice Band
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- First Impression
- Dragon Darts
- Megahorn
- U-turn//Close Combat/Earthquake/Poison Jab

Adamant 115 Speed notably still lets Miasmaw outrun Urshifu, while keeping the much-needed attack power from Adamant. Notably, Adamant Banded Maw with Darts is highly likely to 2hko bulky waters like Arghonaut, Slowbro, and Toxapex, and Megahorn can even tear through Bug resists. U-Turn is obviously helpful for chunking switchins so they can be in 2hko range the next time Miasmaw comes in. Also Banded Darts Ohkos defensive Torn.

Dragon Darts' calcs push Adamant Banded Maw over a threshold where, as crazy as it sounds, the combination of Darts + Megahorn has surprisingly good coverage against the current metagame. Glancing at the VR, the only mons A- and above not threatened by either move are Corviknight and Melmetal, the latter of which cannot switch in on EQ/CC.
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 206-246 (49.7 - 59.4%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 150-176 (49.3 - 57.8%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 186-222 (47.3 - 56.4%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 372-438 (102.7 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Level: 100
Jolly Nature
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Dragon Darts
- Poison Jab
- Close Combat/Earthquake
- U-turn

Here, 115 Speed is especially notable for getting the jump on Astrolotl, forcing it out and denying Regenerator. U-Turn is critical for Miasmaw as it gives really safe and strong click for the mon. It also notably allows Miasmaw to deny Regenerator from an opposing switch while also switching out itself, something it couldn't do before against slower Regen mons. Nothing too fancy about this set, it has 3 move coverage that is pretty tough to switch into outside of fat mons, and U-Turn to pivot out on answers.

After some consideration, I've also decided to remove SD for my buff package. I'm unsure of how good SD + 3 attacks will be given our new speed tier, but I'm fairly confident that these other 2 sets are useful enough to make Maw viable enough. I simply do not want to worry about the case where SD ends up being too strong and requiring a nerf.
Final Submission

+U-Turn
+Knock Off

+18 Speed
+15 Special Defense
-30 Special Attack

New statline: 85/135/60/85/100/110

110 Speed is enough to run Adamant and outpace Base 95s, namely Tapu Lele. Urshifu-R's physdef is a tad too high for me to care about outspeeding it, and if you want Astro to be threatened legit just support Darek's spread.

Extra Special Defense to make bringing it in easier + make interactions with Pyroak more favorable.

top is 85/85, bottom is 85/100

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 148-176 (47.5 - 56.5%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 130-154 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 224-266 (72 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 198-234 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 257-306 (82.6 - 98.3%) -- not a KO
216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 227-268 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- not a KO

252 SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 280-331 (90 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 187-222 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 246-289 (79 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 163-193 (52.4 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage

72+ SpA Equilibra Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 147-174 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO
72+ SpA Equilibra Doom Desire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 256-303 (82.3 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
72+ SpA Equilibra Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 129-153 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
72+ SpA Equilibra Doom Desire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 225-265 (72.3 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 294-348 (94.5 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 258-306 (82.9 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 282-333 (90.6 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 246-291 (79 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Potential set:
Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Dragon Hammer/Megahorn/Recover?

U-Turn lets you pivot around the opponent and synergizes well with both Boots and Neutralizing Gas shutting down the likes of Static or Stamina. Earthquake is strong coverage that scares out Heatran, Equilibra, Slowking-Galar, and Rotom. Poison Jab lets you threaten Fairy-types like Clefable, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Fini, and any free poisons you might get on a switch-in helps. The last slot depends: Dragon Hammer is helpful for strong neutral STAB and something to smack defensive Garchomp, Megahorn is your best nuke option, and Recover is there mostly if Miasmaw wants to pivot against something multiple times during a match. Those are just examples and there's probably a lot of different stuff you could run. Anything that annoys this set like Corviknight is just getting U-Turned on anyway and inviting them in might be part of a bigger strategy.
Final Submission

-Bug-type
-Swords Dance
-Nasty Plot

+Poison-type
+Toxic


I'm posting a typing change because I think its a cleaner solution than the others. I have a segment at the bottom with some justification to do this over a stat and movepool-focused buff.

Miasmaw has the following flaws:
-Hates hazards
-Wants to carry an item that isnt HDB
-Greatly annoyed by Fairies and common mons in the tier
-Awful STAB combination leading to awkward movepool
-Lack of meaningful resists
-Cant actually sit on walls/common Regen-mons and do Neutralizing Gas things

Poison/Dragon + Toxic fixes more issues at its core than other options listed in the thread.
+You now have more item freedom, leading to CB or other choices- also improving the quality of Recover sets
+You now have a superior STAB combo which pairs easily with a 3rd coverage type
+You have a much better set of resists that leads to switch-in chances on more mons, amplifies the benefits of Recover and could even lead to more defensive stallbreaker sets
+You provide your team with a Toxic immunity/tspikes absorber, and optional Toxic user, giving more purpose
+
Toxic is a decent mid-ground option to have against non-Steels

Despite gaining a ground weakness you will now find switchins on considerably more mons, taking neutral hits on the special side from uninvested mons and notably switching into Fairies like Koko, Fini, and Clef. While the switchins remain limited, it grants a far wider range than Bug/Dragon, is less devastated by Knock Offs, and also grants a big boost in offensive capability.
Poison/Dragon/Fighting coverage from 135 hits really hard, especially with Poison now STAB-boosted. But if you want a dedicated stallbreaker, you can go for Recover + Toxic, really helping to break down walls like Argho. With spdef investment (which no longer becomes a joke once you're free from the chains of bug typing) you can sit on walls like Zapdos and pivots like Torn-T and even Ice Beam Slowbro and ruin their day, taking neutral Hurricanes with relative ease. Forgoing Toxic, you can still run a specially defensive spread and simply boost the impact of teammates' status moves (for instance toxicing torn with your lando, then switching into Miasmaw to cause misery) and run 3 attacks + recovery. Poison Jab also inflicts poison, which can be enough to be a nuisance to the above walls.

A lot of the other buffs have to deal with other wallbreakers still being straight-up better alternatives- for example Lele, Shifu, Weavile and even Syclant all exist in the same tier as this and can provide nuclear damage while being less costly to put on a team. This clean typing change grants some super-unique strengths outside of wallbreaking, like making guaranteed progress vs Torn-T.

Miasmaw @ Choice Band / Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Poison Jab
- Close Combat
- Filler

Offensive Spread
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 112-133 (36 - 42.7%)
252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 121-144 (38.9 - 46.3%)
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 112-133 (36 - 42.7%)

252 Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 410-486 (104 - 123.3%)
252 Atk Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 272-324 (69 - 82.2%)

Miasmaw @ Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Close Combat
- Recover
- Toxic / Poison Jab

Defensive Spread
0 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 115-136 (30.7 - 36.3%)
8 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 104-124 (27.8 - 33.1%)
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 103-123 (27.5 - 32.8%)
216+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 112-132 (29.9 - 35.2%)
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 130-154 (34.7 - 41.1%)



SD and Nasty Plot have been dropped here not only to clean up movepool but to reduce the number of side-sets that could pop up, making this buff package clearer in its landing zone. There's a chance that SD + 3 atks could be an unstoppable force offensively and create more matchup fishing than its worth worrying about, so I've removed these boosting moves as either way it won't have much of a positive impact on Miasmaw. I think there's still room to drastically cut Miasmaw's movepool, but for now I'm leaving this as is.

Miasmaw can still be walled with Poison/Dragon typing- mons like Arghonaut, Slowbro and Corvi can tank a jolly CB set (and good prediction will always stump it), while mons like Toxapex and Corvi can cause issues for a Toxic set. But it'll find switchins throughout the game to threaten more mons, and Toxic sets cause problems for CB sets and vice versa. NGas dampens the opponent's ability to make a safe scout for set choice- fulfilling the concept quite nicely. I actually don't think CB gets any easier to click with with Poison/Dragon, but I think that's also probably for the best because it gets punished less for clicking wrong and gains more for clicking right.
Not touching its speed also keeps it in check, with 95s and 100s being options to revenge kill a CB set, or make an offensive switch on a Toxic set. Knock Off is still an excellent thing to do on the switch to prevent the nuclear power of CB.

Flavor and identity:
There is a high precedent of Bug themed mons not being bugs and instead being Dragons or Poison- Flygon, Drapion, Giratina, Fidgit, Goodra, Flapple. Miasmaw has heavy poison and dragon themes, so the flavor is still excellent.

As for being a huge change to Miasmaw's identity- I never vibed with Bug typing since its inception, and it always stuck out as the weirdest part of Miasmaw through the process and long after. Like I said in my first post, I dont think moves like First Impression are a part of Miasmaw's identity, with previous sets feeling janky- actually over its whole lifetime, Dragon Hammer is undoubtably its most clicked move/main identity, with the rest of the moveslots being a nebulous mess. I also don't like the idea of cramming more moves onto this thing, none of which cure its heavy 4MSS, give it unique purpose, or improve on its existing ability to hit the whole tier super effectively. Since everything is on the table and a lot of the other buffs are similar, I figured it would be cool to write this up even tho I know a lot of people are vehemently anti-typing change.
lets goooo

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The voting options are:

Package 1 by dex
Package 2 by Voltage
Package 3 by Darek
Package 4 by shnowshner
Package 5 by Pipotchi


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spoo

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Wulfanator

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dex

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MrPanda

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I just, really like miasmaw with stab u-turn.
 

Astra

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Pipotchi's package feels like it'd work the best because of how problematic of a type Bug is, the Bug type is an abysmal type sadly due to its weaknesses and how many types resist it, by switching that for Poison Maw can safely switch in on a stealth rock and be able to have coverage to hit Fairy with STAB, Toxic will also prove useful due to being able to chip damage
 

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