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Introduction: This is my first RMT! Thank you in advance for any responses. This is a team that was originally built around a Latios but due to metagame factors I had to take it out, which means this team is now based around the heavily underrated Buzzwole. Sadly this team may not last forever due to a potential Zygarde ban, but there are a number of Pokemon who can probably fit in that slot. Finch helped me with this team a lot, so thanks to you for that (didn't want to forget saying that).
Buzzwole recently fell to UU, which is dastardly considering how many meta threats this buff bug takes on. Iron Head Urshifu? Countered. Kartana? Does not exist. Non-Dual Wingbeat Kyu-B? Not a problem. Non-Toxic sub coil Zygarde? Given the absence of unfavorable RNG, it's dealt with too. Buzzwole takes care of so many threats that often I find it difficult to build without it after using it once. No longer to I have to quiver in fear every time my Clef switches in to Urshifu, as Aerial Ace Urshifu is very rare to the point where you do not need to think about it. The fact that it takes on the two strongest threats in the meta, being Zygarde and Kyu-B, warrants a spot on many a team. The dual coverage of Drain Punch and Ice punch does let Pex and Slowbro in, but the opportunity cost of giving up on either means both will be on every set. I've done some crazy stuff like staying in on DD Dragonite to Ice Punch or freezing Slowbro and Toxapex on switch-in. Although it has bulk up, Buzzwole is not meant to go on the offensive and sweep. Bulk up is there to let you boost up alongside a Coil Zygarde or (similarly anti-meta) Bulk Up Zarude, and being able to hit them super effectively means you will usually succeed. Of course, many boosting mons can beat you given some great RNG, but if that happens you were destined to lose anyways. The item choice is debatable. Most of the time, you are going to go for leftovers, as it lets you passively heal in boosting wars or while paralyzed against a subbing Zygarde. I personally changed it to Heavy-Duty Boots, as I had ran into multiple Toxic Spikes + Hextrier teams and was beginning to get quite annoyed. Choose whatever fits your neck of the ladder. EVs are spread sort of haphazardly but aim to supplement Buzzwole's great physical bulk while giving is special defensive to take LO Pheromosa Ice Beams and more confortably tank LO Dracozolt Fire Blast. Overall, a very solid (albeit RNG-able) mon that deserves a spot both in OU and on this team.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
Heatran is the second member of this team. With Blissey, Heatran is free to shrug off its specially-defensive duties and go on the offensive. This here set aims to support its team by trapping and removing key threats that limit the effectiveness of the other members, such as Toxapex, Clefable, and Blissey. Many teams don't have many solid magma storm switch ins, as common offensive resists such as Blaziken and Zygarde need to preserve their health if they wish to sweep in the late-game. Thus, many teams are resigned to pivoting into specially bulky mons are bulky resists. However, a large portion of these pokemon are trapped and taken care of with an accompanying taunt, which can open up a team member like Zygarde later in the game. Earth power lets it easily trap Toxapex while minimizing the damage it takes, as well as deter an opposing Heatran switch in. Many players do not expect Heatran to be max speed, so given enough chip Heatran can use the surprise factor to cleanly dispose of them. It also uses its natural bulk and resists to be a good rocker, although in that regard it does struggle with certain defoggers such as Lando-T and Moltres. Either way, rocks are good for this team, and I regret I could not put spikes on it too. Heatran overall is a great emergency back up check to nearly everything while being a force to be reckoned with when it is on the field, and it can clear roadblocks for a Zygarde or Hexpult endgame.
Zygarde, as we all know, is one of the best win conditions and sweepers in the current meta. The spammability of Thousand arrows means only having one offensive move is not a problem, and any resists in grass or bug types are usually walled by Buzzwole. This is a standard Dragon Dance set. I have yet to gain enough metagame knowledge to decide for Dragon Dance or Coil, but I like Dragon Dance for how it can strike back against offense when given the opportunity. Glare not only puts Zygarde in a favorable position against things that should wall it, it also can support a late game Hexpult clean-up, as it boosts Hex's power and slows down Pheromosa. The given EV spread gives the optimal EVs to live Slowbro's Scald behind substitute, and it outspeeds Jolly Dracozolt and also in sand after +2. You can also run it with 101 hp subs, but that would lower its offensive prowess and many Blissey automatically assume 101 hp subs and switch out anyways. Having a ground type also means I am not run over by rising voltage Regieleki. Usually it would have to contend with Clefable, but Heatran is usually able to dispose of Clefable with good play, and with flame orb clefable being most team's only Zygarde Check, once removed it can blow through teams. Zygarde is a great wincon and is supported well by this team, which means it deserves a spot.
Blissey is the best special wall period. 255 hp and 135 spdef on their own would make an incredibly bulky pokemon, but together they create this abomination which takes 44.5% from modest specs magearna fleur cannon without even investing in spdef. It acts as a blanket check to every single special attacker in the game. It doesn't even need lefties so it improves its spikes/tspikes matchup with Heavy-Duty Boots, which allows it to function as a great teleport pivot to safely bring in Heatran, Zygarde, or Dragapult. Toxic supports Dragapult very well while softening up pokemon like Slowbro or Hippowdon, but I will always be partial to Fling as it lets it switch in to Latios, Magearna, Clefable, and the gimmicky Zororak+trick without ever worrying about anything. Seismic Toss for consistent damage, and Teleport lets it pivot around and not just sit there and be passive. In conjunction with Spell Tag Dragapult, this lets it take care of all variants of Spectrier easily and consistently. Blissey's titanic special bulk and pivoting ability justify a spot on this team.
Dragapult has been overlooked recently with Spectrier and Pheromosa, but it deserves none of this. It's speed and pivoting ability means it can easily force things out and gain momentum. Even though this job would strongly suggest Heavy-Duty Boots, sadly Spell Tag is needed to ensure an OHKO on spectrier. Running Timid means it can act as speed control for this relatively slow team. 8 defense EVs seem like nothing, but 8 EVs are what is needed for Dragapult to always live a Jolly Cinderace Sucker Punch from full. 4 EVs off special attack barely affects anything so if this situation arises might as well EV yourself for it. Dragapult also acts as a late game cleaner after the opposing team has been softened up by status. Dragapult has a clear and well defined role on this team and that is what warrants its position.
Moltres is a great defensive pokemon with the introduction of Heavy-Duty Boots. Max defensive investment lets it most effectively counter pokemon such as Rillaboom, Kartana, Blaziken, and most importantly, Melmetal. All these pokemon run the risk of burning themselves on contact with Moltres, especially Melmetal which hits twice. Scorching Sands let Moltres be my most reliable switch in to opposing Heatran, as it doesn't care about Magma Storm + taunt and can 2HKO with Scorching Sands. It also lets me pressure Toxapex with non-trivial damage and a burn, thus letting it defog Toxic Spikes away more effectively. Roost and Flamethrower are non-negotiable. Moltres's ability to handle Melmetal and Defog away hazards define its role on the team.
Threats: This is the most common threat to this team. Since I have no regenerator pokemon I cannot scout what move it will go for without giving up a significant amount of health. My best counterplay options are to hope for a flame body burn with Moltres, somehow paralyze it with zygarde, or predict Close Combat and get Dragapult in to force it out.
I have not faced this yet in my many testing matches, but theoretically I have no consistent way of dealing with this defensive beast. All of my pokemon fear one or more of its Stabs. Blissey can deal with it well, unless it happens to be Nature's Madness + Taunt in which case you better be ready to say good night. Usually I could sack a pokemon to status it and then chip it down with Rocks and Hex, but due to its Misty Terrain that is not even possible. Any help in how I could fix this would be great.
In rain beating this pokemon is incredibly shaky. Buzzwole really wishes it could use both Heavy-Duty Boots and Leftovers because without both it dies to Adamant Banded Liquidation in rain after rocks.
Yeah i just need a better water resist.
Moltres is an incredibly shaky counter to it. If it is last move eq, Moltres can continually roost on its flare blitzes as it kills itself with recoil. If its thunder punch, I sack Moltres, Dragapult, and Buzzwole to kill it to try to kill it with flare blitz recoil. If one of those mons is incredibly important I can send Dragapult in and double to Blissey, and the Blaziken will kill Blissey and probably itself too. Very shaky.
With Dual Wingbeat this tears through this team. If you know they're Dual Wingbeat you can pivot into Moltres looking for a burn, but usually you won't know unless its too late. Luckily Buzzwole is still considered a fringe option by a large portion of the playerbase and thus dual wingbeat isn't too common.
Conclusion:
This team is very satisfying as it manages to switch in to most of the most powerful threats in the metagame comfortably, which is a feat not many other teams can claim at the moment. It's overall straightforwardness of play is very fun to the less experienced player such as myself. Once you understand it it is very easy to pick up and start using immediately, and most of the time calculating sacks isn't hard as every team member has an incredibly defined role. Trapping unsuspecting Toxapex and Clefable will never get old, and who doesn't love clicking Thousand Arrows 5 times once Clefable is gone. Many slowbro think they can break your subs with scald too, so seeing them flop around helplessly. This team might become outdated if Dual Wingbeat Kyurem starts proliferating, but other than that it is solid once I (we) iron out the water resist issue. Thank you for reading or posting.
This team is hard carried by Moltres+Buzzwole, maybe I should make a post about that in SS OU Good Cores.
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/1f74d6d1661c9679
Hey, this looks to me like a solid team! I just built a team myself with Moltres and Buzzwole (and Blissey), and I agree that it's a good defensive core. Also, I like your formatting; I felt like I was reading one of my own RMTs if you've seen them before lol.
Anyway, I have a few minor suggestions about your EV spreads:
I think you should put some speed EVs into Moltres to get above at least the 220 benchmark. 220 is a notable benchmark because neutral natured Aegislash and Magnizone both top out at 219. Right now, many Heatran are hitting at least 220 as well to speed-creep Aegislash and Magnizone, and you want your Moltres to be faster than most Heatrans. 252-Adamant Tyranitar is rare, but it hits 221, so some people shoot for 222 with their Heatran to creep that. Personally, I try to hit 223 to creep 222 Heatrans, but that's just me. Since Moltres is naturally fairly fast, you only need 16 EVs to hit 220 and 28 hits 223. I use a spread of Bold 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe. I think it's pretty much always best to use 248 HP on Moltres so that you minimize the passive damage by not having an HP divisible by 2, 4, 6, 8, 16, etc. You can read more about that here if you don't understand what I mean.
Similarly, I think you should put some speed into Buzzwole. I like to get him to at least 210 because Adamant 252 Crawdaunt hits 209. Again, I like to creep the 210 benchmark and hit 211 to potentially creep something like a Mandibuzz that's at 210. It takes 64 EVs for Buzzwole to hit 210 and 68 for 211. I also understand that the 64 SpD EVs are mainly so you're 3HKOd by Life Orb Pheromosa's Ice Beam after Stealth Rocks damage and Leftovers recovery (for transparency, I also learned that from Finch), but I don't know how necessary it is when you also have Moltres to check Pheromosa. I go with a spread of Impish 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 Spe on Buzzwole.
Finally, I prefer using a more defensive spread for Stealth Rocks Heatran. I don't think it's worth it to try to make an offensive Heatran that only hits 253 speed, since many of the bulkier switch-ins to Heatran like Blissey and Toxapex you'll end up trapping and killing with Magma Storm + Taunt regardless. As I said before when I was talking about Moltres, I think that Heatran should at least hit the 220 benchmark. Again I go to 223 to creep any other Heatrans at 222, but that's just me. The rest should be put into SpDef to lighten some of the load on your Blissey, especially against Psyshock users like Tapu Lele. Personally, I use Calm 252 HP / 124 SpD / 132 Speon Stealth Rocks Heatran.
Hey, this looks to me like a solid team! I just built a team myself with Moltres and Buzzwole (and Blissey), and I agree that it's a good defensive core. Also, I like your formatting; I felt like I was reading one of my own RMTs if you've seen them before lol.
Anyway, I have a few minor suggestions about your EV spreads:
I think you should put some speed EVs into Moltres to get above at least the 220 benchmark. 220 is a notable benchmark because neutral natured Aegislash and Magnizone both top out at 219. Right now, many Heatran are hitting at least 220 as well to speed-creep Aegislash and Magnizone, and you want your Moltres to be faster than most Heatrans. 252-Adamant Tyranitar is rare, but it hits 221, so some people shoot for 222 with their Heatran to creep that. Personally, I try to hit 223 to creep 222 Heatrans, but that's just me. Since Moltres is naturally fairly fast, you only need 16 EVs to hit 220 and 28 hits 223. I use a spread of Bold 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe. I think it's pretty much always best to use 248 HP on Moltres so that you minimize the passive damage by not having an HP divisible by 2, 4, 6, 8, 16, etc. You can read more about that here if you don't understand what I mean.
Similarly, I think you should put some speed into Buzzwole. I like to get him to at least 210 because Adamant 252 Crawdaunt hits 209. Again, I like to creep the 210 benchmark and hit 211 to potentially creep something like a Mandibuzz that's at 210. It takes 64 EVs for Buzzwole to hit 210 and 68 for 211. I also understand that the 64 SpD EVs are mainly so you're 3HKOd by Life Orb Pheromosa's Ice Beam after Stealth Rocks damage and Leftovers recovery (for transparency, I also learned that from Finch), but I don't know how necessary it is when you also have Moltres to check Pheromosa. I go with a spread of Impish 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 Spe on Buzzwole.
Finally, I prefer using a more defensive spread for Stealth Rocks Heatran. I don't think it's worth it to try to make an offensive Heatran that only hits 253 speed, since many of the bulkier switch-ins to Heatran like Blissey and Toxapex you'll end up trapping and killing with Magma Storm + Taunt regardless. As I said before when I was talking about Moltres, I think that Heatran should at least hit the 220 benchmark. Again I go to 223 to creep any other Heatrans at 222, but that's just me. The rest should be put into SpDef to lighten some of the load on your Blissey, especially against Psyshock users like Tapu Lele. Personally, I use Calm 252 HP / 124 SpD / 132 Speon Stealth Rocks Heatran.
Hey, thanks for the tips! I know most of the spreads I've seen for these pokemon involved speed, but I wasn't sure what to put for them so I made them what they are and hoped someone such as yourself would help. Also, it's really funny because this is my first RMT so I wasn't sure exactly how to put things. Your RMT happened to be at the top when I checked the forums so I opened yours, read through it, and pretty much copied the formatting XD thanks for the reply and the example.
Edit: Is Crawdaunt still used or is that just a benchmark that is still worthwhile to hit?
Hey, thanks for the tips! I know most of the spreads I've seen for these pokemon involved speed, but I wasn't sure what to put for them so I made them what they are and hoped someone such as yourself would help. Also, it's really funny because this is my first RMT so I wasn't sure exactly how to put things. Your RMT happened to be at the top when I checked the forums so I opened yours, read through it, and pretty much copied the formatting XD thanks for the reply and the example.
Edit: Is Crawdaunt still used or is that just a benchmark that is still worthwhile to hit?
Yeah Crawdaunt isn't used a ton so it's up to you whether or not you want to account for it. Its usage was 2.72% last month at 1695. The meta obviously is brand new so usage isn't the most reliable yet until the "new toy syndrome" starts to wear off and more bans potentially take place. Crawdaunt can be scary for your team if you run into one though, so it's still a threat I like to account for.
If you don't want to go up to over 209 for Crawdaunt, the other benchmark that's commonly hit is 200, because neutral-natured Azumarill hits 199. Neutral-natured Victini also goes down to 199 after the speed drop from a V-create, but that's a pretty rare scenario. Buzzwole can't do much damage to Azumarill (Drain Punch would be your best bet and it does 18.7-22.2%) but Aqua Jet at +6 should only do about half to Buzzwole and Azumarill is usually at pretty low health to begin with if you hit it while it Belly Drums. Azu is a threat to your team, as you acknowledged, so it's nice to have a little more help against it. It only takes 24 EVs to get Buzzwole to 200 and as always, you may want to go to 201 to creep anything that also hits 200.
Finally, some people also like taking Buzzwole up to the 220-223 benchmark I keep talking about to hit Magnezone and Heatran with Drain Punch. Personally I don't like this as much and prefer the bulk because Drain Punch isn't OHKOing either of them and they both can OHKO Buzzwole back. Figuring out exactly how fast a Heatran is can also be pretty risky.
And thank you; I'm glad that my RMT was some help!
I agree about Buzzwole going to 210 Speed, you lose nothing by hitting it and Crawdaunt is a monster against unprepared teams. I would also alter your Zygarde set to be 188HP/200SpD/120Spe Careful. The Speed is to outrun Modest Dragapult at +1, HP EVs make sure that Seismic Toss doesn't break your Sub, and the rest in SpDef.
I agree about Buzzwole going to 210 Speed, you lose nothing by hitting it and Crawdaunt is a monster against unprepared teams. I would also alter your Zygarde set to be 188HP/200SpD/120Spe Careful. The Speed is to outrun Modest Dragapult at +1, HP EVs make sure that Seismic Toss doesn't break your Sub, and the rest in SpDef.
I think overall this is a nice team. Buzzwole + Moltres + Blissey is a really nice defensive core and offensive tran and dd zygarde complement each other nicely offensively and both break well for dragapult as a cleaner. The match-up against rain isn't great and you are weak to galarian zapdos, but outside of running a toxapex over something it's hard to think of a straight-forward fix and it's hard to replace a mon for pex and not open weaknesses to something else. The only mon I'd consider changing would be dragapult to spectrier. You lose out on checking zygarde even behind a sub and spectrier itself, and dragapult does bring a lot of utility in u-turn and just in general, but I think spectrier would be better on this team as it's a lot better as a late game cleaner thanks to the boost in spatk giving it more initial power and grim neigh giving it extra boosts, making it much better at breaking through answers such as heatran and mandibuzz late game especially considering your team is packed with status abusers. I feel both specs or a nasty plot / calm mind + will-o-wisp variant would both fit well here, with specs punching holes from the off with shadow ball and a boosting set having more utility with a fast will-o-wisp for things such as cinderace and the ability to break through some of it's counters such as mandibuzz or blissey depending on what 4th move you run.
Apart from that, I'd only recommend a few minor changes and I echo most of the suggestions made by Goodbye & Thanks. His sets for buzzwole and moltres help deal with some notable threats much easier than before, but I would prefer to run offensive heatran on this team because I like it here as more of a wall-breaker and I don't feel like a defensive set is needed as you already have moltres and blissey to cover things such as melmetal, spectrier and nasty plot tornadus. I would also run heal bell over teleport and shadow ball over seismic toss on blissey. Teleport is nice but Heal bell would massively improve your match-up against defensive builds as all of your mons other than heatran hate toxic, and random paras or burns could cripple heatran, zygarde or buzzwole. Shadow ball means you should always beat spectrier, as if you did run spectrier over pult then you no longer have the option of switching to bliss --> teleporting to pult and killing it even behind a sub. Finally, if you do decide to stick with pult over spectrier then I would run will-o-wisp or thunder wave over shadow ball on dragapult, allowing you to serve as a better check to cinderace by crippling it and fast status is just nice in general.
- Dragapult --> Specs or Will-O-Wisp + boosting move Spectrier
- The sets posted above for buzzwole + moltres
- Seismic Toss and Teleport --> Shadow ball and heal bell on blissey
I think overall this is a nice team. Buzzwole + Moltres + Blissey is a really nice defensive core and offensive tran and dd zygarde complement each other nicely offensively and both break well for dragapult as a cleaner. The match-up against rain isn't great and you are weak to galarian zapdos, but outside of running a toxapex over something it's hard to think of a straight-forward fix and it's hard to replace a mon for pex and not open weaknesses to something else. The only mon I'd consider changing would be dragapult to spectrier. You lose out on checking zygarde even behind a sub and spectrier itself, and dragapult does bring a lot of utility in u-turn and just in general, but I think spectrier would be better on this team as it's a lot better as a late game cleaner thanks to the boost in spatk giving it more initial power and grim neigh giving it extra boosts, making it much better at breaking through answers such as heatran and mandibuzz late game especially considering your team is packed with status abusers. I feel both specs or a nasty plot / calm mind + will-o-wisp variant would both fit well here, with specs punching holes from the off with shadow ball and a boosting set having more utility with a fast will-o-wisp for things such as cinderace and the ability to break through some of it's counters such as mandibuzz or blissey depending on what 4th move you run.
Apart from that, I'd only recommend a few minor changes and I echo most of the suggestions made by Goodbye & Thanks. His sets for buzzwole and moltres help deal with some notable threats much easier than before, but I would prefer to run offensive heatran on this team because I like it here as more of a wall-breaker and I don't feel like a defensive set is needed as you already have moltres and blissey to cover things such as melmetal, spectrier and nasty plot tornadus. I would also run heal bell over teleport and shadow ball over seismic toss on blissey. Teleport is nice but Heal bell would massively improve your match-up against defensive builds as all of your mons other than heatran hate toxic, and random paras or burns could cripple heatran, zygarde or buzzwole. Shadow ball means you should always beat spectrier, as if you did run spectrier over pult then you no longer have the option of switching to bliss --> teleporting to pult and killing it even behind a sub. Finally, if you do decide to stick with pult over spectrier then I would run will-o-wisp or thunder wave over shadow ball on dragapult, allowing you to serve as a better check to cinderace by crippling it and fast status is just nice in general.
- Dragapult --> Specs or Will-O-Wisp + boosting move Spectrier
- The sets posted above for buzzwole + moltres
- Seismic Toss and Teleport --> Shadow ball and heal bell on blissey
Why did i not get a notif for this lmao. Anyways i ran shadow Ball on Dragapult because sadly unboosted Hex has no chance to KO full health or nearly full health spectrier. Zygarde was banned so this team is obsolete, I just wanna say some things in response to your post.
First off, although Shadow Ball does help with Spectrier, it by no means makes you 100% safe. This is because Calm Mind Spectrier is a clear superior to Nasty Plot on most builds. The Spdef boost gained from Calm Mind allows you to tank Blissey Shadow Balls behind sub, as well as tanking a Shadow Ball from Infiltrator Dragapult and KOing back. Even with pult i would lose to a CM Spectrier LMAO. Anyways that's why I think Sub-Cm-Disable-Dark Pulse is the best Spectrier set but that's not a topic for this outdated RMT.
In general I feel like this team had too little defense as a balance team. Not having a fourth member meant I was still leaving myself open to common OU threats. I've since rearranged this team structure on other teams to Buzzwole-Zapdos-Blissey-Slowbro, or BlissBroBuzzBirb. It gives me future sight, rain counters, the best gapdos counter in the game, and more teleport fun.
This is the most common threat to this team. Since I have no regenerator pokemon I cannot scout what move it will go for without giving up a significant amount of health. My best counterplay options are to hope for a flame body burn with Moltres, somehow paralyze it with zygarde, or predict Close Combat and get Dragapult in to force it out.
I have not faced this yet in my many testing matches, but theoretically I have no consistent way of dealing with this defensive beast. All of my pokemon fear one or more of its Stabs. Blissey can deal with it well, unless it happens to be Nature's Madness + Taunt in which case you better be ready to say good night. Usually I could sack a pokemon to status it and then chip it down with Rocks and Hex, but due to its Misty Terrain that is not even possible. Any help in how I could fix this would be great.
In rain beating this pokemon is incredibly shaky. Buzzwole really wishes it could use both Heavy-Duty Boots and Leftovers because without both it dies to Adamant Banded Liquidation in rain after rocks.
Yeah i just need a better water resist.
Moltres is an incredibly shaky counter to it. If it is last move eq, Moltres can continually roost on its flare blitzes as it kills itself with recoil. If its thunder punch, I sack Moltres, Dragapult, and Buzzwole to kill it to try to kill it with flare blitz recoil. If one of those mons is incredibly important I can send Dragapult in and double to Blissey, and the Blaziken will kill Blissey and probably itself too. Very shaky.
With Dual Wingbeat this tears through this team. If you know they're Dual Wingbeat you can pivot into Moltres looking for a burn, but usually you won't know unless its too late. Luckily Buzzwole is still considered a fringe option by a large portion of the playerbase and thus dual wingbeat isn't too common.
