OU BW OU Hub

:bw/keldeo:
Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump

I find that the 4th slot on Leftovers Keldeo can go to pretty much any move, and because of the amount of switches Keldeo forces, I decided to put Roar. It's especially nasty with Spikes so you can phaze in something like a Tyranitar and put it in more comfortable range for something like a Latios. You could also experiment with other items like a gem, but I generally like the longevity that Lefties brings.
:keldeo: :thundurus-therian: :latios: :politoed: :ferrothorn: :tentacruel:
 
1621332588129.png


Scizor @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Substitute
- Bug Bite
- Double Hit

This is an odd set I've been using a little to combat the 3 Psychic team that seems to be circulating a little recently. While it's a little unorthodox and still needs FAR more testing I think that it could have potential. Idea is that you come in on some strong special move and then by Subbing you've put your opponent in a guessing game after they switched potentially staring down a +1 Scizor behind Substitute, depending on the team you are facing this could be lethal. While Bullet Punch is necessary I feel like the last two moves are fairly customizable, Bug Bite is used for high-power stab against almost everything, while Double Hit can hit targets resistant to Bug Bite for neutral damage, as well as being the only move that could cleanly dispatch Alakazam if they though a Pursuit was coming (though I will admit this is rather unreliable). I feel as if Acrobatics could still be strong on this set as one of the highest power options Scizor could have, as is Pursuit if you really want to destroy those Psychic Pokemon and especially Jellicent.

"Why not just use Swords Dance"? Because for me I feel like getting Scizor into +1 Attack Behind a sub is far more difficult for my opponent to play around, allowing me to more surgically remove a certain Pokemon I may want gone for the rest of my team. Like I said it definitely needs more testing and is probably just a gimmick but I thought I'd share it anyways
 
Ive been using this Metagross alongside stock standards to great success:

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Hammer Arm

The idea is to take on Latios\Alakazam which are everywhere and pick them off with Pursuit+Bullet Punch. Unfortunately Latios needs two SR switchins to die. Also shrugs off Outrages and responds with a KO using Ice Punch on all the relevant quad-weak dragons. Hammer Arm is the coverage move of choice to hit Magnezone, Ferrathorn, etc. Obviously gets walled by a lot of stuff so I keep it on the bench until the situation calls for it, a utility 'Gross.
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
For the last couple months I've really enjoyed messing around with the standard Smurf team to try and optimise some match-ups better. I've already posted before about Scarf Salamence > Dragonite, which can be huge in the mirror match and is also solid into Psyspam.

In this post, however, I'm going to talk about Smurf variations that can improve the Rain match-up, often considered to be a near auto-loss especially if facing Scarf Keldeo iterations. In all three cases, manual Sunny Day is used to turn the match-up on its head; often Rain players will basically sacrifice Politoed vs lead Garchomp, and in this case a mid-to-lategame Sunny Day is often game-winning. Importantly, manual Sunny Day also significantly helps out Volcarona and Dragonite by removing Sandstorm, so they can't be passively chipped down by Sand balance teams.


Breloom @ Fighting Gem / Grass Gem
Ability: Technician
EVs: 212 Atk / 92 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunny Day
- Mach Punch
- Low Sweep
- Bullet Seed

We hear a lot about Sunny Day Breloom in DPP partnered with Pokemon that hate sand chip, but we rarely hear about it in BW. I think this is a mistake. Sunny Day on both Technician and Poison Heal Breloom has legitimate merit in a metagame where Sand chip or Rain-boosted Scalds otherwise strain the teambuilder so tightly. Also important to note is that I think there is room for more variation in Tech Loom EV spreads than we see currently. Its very easy to just slap 252 Atk / 252 Spe in and get into the game, but frail Pokemon like Breloom can benefit a lot from even a little bit of bulk investment. This spread is one I quite like - it tapers the speed down to just enough to beat 0 Speed Gliscor combined with a few EVs scraped from Attack to bump up its special bulk significantly. Just to put numbers on this, I think this Breloom is ~3% less powerful, but is now ~14% more bulky. This comes in handy a lot against a lot of Rain threats, and pairs nicely with the Sunny Day slot to ensure Breloom isn't getting OHKOd by Keldeo / Thundurus before it can switch weathers.


Scizor @ Life Orb / Some kind of Gem
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature
- Sunny Day (/Safeguard)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower (/U-turn)
- Pursuit

Maybe makes less sense than Breloom on paper, but in practice this can be hugely disruptive. In short, I rarely found myself clicking Swords Dance with Scizor when I had Swords Dance Breloom in tow as well, as you often only need one of them to boost to cripple Skarmory (esp if you have Fire Blast ChainChomp, which my team had also). This freed up a slot on Scizor for its suprisingly deep support movepool. I've messed around a lot with both Sunny Day and Safeguard, which are lovely anti-rain options. Sunny Day Scizor is a far more direct option, and works smoothly when your opponent sacrifices Politoed early, which you can't blame them for - who would use Sunny Day Scizor after all? Safeguard is a cool option too, allowing your Breloom, Volcarona, and Dragonite/Salamence to far more reliably switch into and setting up on Politoed / Tentacruel / Gastrodon / Jellicent / Rotom-W.


Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz

We saw this get used by Talah in RoAPL this year - apparently the Terrakion Smurf team we've seen in SPL originally had Sunny Day Volc on it but it never made the final cut, but Talah wanted to use this earlier version for his game vs Soulwind. Regardless, this game shows off the merits of Sunny Day Volcarona in the Rain match-up, notably stopping an opposing Sub Keldeo from becoming an issue (with a little bit of fortune). Further, Sunny Day with Leftovers overcomes Volcarona's poor survivability against Sand teams, and prevents the opponent from passively switching around Tyranitar / Gliscor / bulky waters to chip you into revenge-killable range. The downside here is, of course, really poor coverage that means you need to find other routes to hit Tentacruel (e.g. EQ Terrakion), but this is certainly a cool option.
 
Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Dragon Pulse

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Focus Blast

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 176 Def / 88 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I'm a bit of a noobie player. Have played BW OU for a bit but just barely 1400 on showdown lol.

I know this team is a pretty bland sand offensive-minded sand team mostly, although if anyone has any comments on specific EV spreads please give them. Generally I try to spread residual damage through rocks+spikes to give Zam and or Latios easier cleanup.

Of course, there's the Gengar set. I've been experimenting with Gengar as support on sand. Our malevolent friend is often maligned as frail, lacking switch-in opportunities, and not strong enough. Most of the time this is true. He also is set up bait for Volcarana if rocks aren't up. I have found, however, that the particular support set that I have can work at least somewhat consistently (You live and die by Will-O-Wisp accuracy though). It annoys stealth rock Garchomp, DragMag JIrachi, non mold breaker Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and other bulky hazard and status spreaders really well.

Unfortunately, it's often entry bait for Scizor and Tyranitar. This is of course where Will-O-Wisp comes in. Assuming the generic support Tyranitar or banded Scizor, if Gengar gets a burn on entry — not a particularly hard prediction in most cases — he can switch out even from a Pursuit and return for more annoyance later. He does become a bit of a liability late-game, though, thanks to the lack of special attack investment.

The main issue I've found with this set is that it's lacking in offensive presence. Sure, you can burn a variety of dragons and the aforementioned threats, but shadow-ball hits basically nothing super effectively and Gengar obviously can't run much special attack investment. The difference between this, and, for instance, Rotom-Wash bulky Wisp and Pain Split sets is that Gengar has taunt while Rotom has volt switch and better overall natural bulk. Any thoughts on bulky/annoying Gengar viability for this team?

I've also tried offensive Gengar sets for this team, but it's just so hard to make the right combination of Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Ice, Will-O-Wisp, Substitute, Disable, Pain Split, Thunder(bolt), Giga Drain, Psychic, and Taunt. This set would probably just run a standard 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP. This type of Gengar probably can't fit on this team, but I'd really like to hear whether anyone thinks an offensive Gengar is possible at all on any type of team style.
 

FNH

King of the Noobs
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
The main issue I've found with this set is that it's lacking in offensive presence. Sure, you can burn a variety of dragons and the aforementioned threats, but shadow-ball hits basically nothing super effectively and Gengar obviously can't run much special attack investment. The difference between this, and, for instance, Rotom-Wash bulky Wisp and Pain Split sets is that Gengar has taunt while Rotom has volt switch and better overall natural bulk. Any thoughts on bulky/annoying Gengar viability for this team?
Gengar fits this build pretty well actually. I did a similiar 6 that I posted. Its a simple build with a simple strategy of get up hazards, cripple Tyranitar and let Alakazam sweep. The primary reasoning to using Gengar is because it generally draws dark types in like Tyranitar and other bulky mons such as Rotom-wash and burns them. This makes Latios and Alakazam so much more combersome to deal with. Tyranitar though would never feel forced to come in on a Rotom-wash. Gengar can also function as a last resort spin blocker as well, but it will really just be a sack on say Tentacruel or Excadrill to keep your hazards in play. Gengar's main presence isn't really for Shadow ball, but just Will o' Wisp really. Your main avenue for offensive pressence will be through Alakazam or your Landorus-Therian, but to get the most outta them, aggressively get up your hazards. Once you have hazards up and some burn's this style should be able to punch through opponents. Latios's would also benefit from a set change as well. There was a post back in this thread [here] with Colbur Latios which further helps you chip stuff like Tyranitar and roar out opponents for further hazard damage. Choice Specs or Dragon Gem Calm Mind would also work. I also have to agree with Peng's thoughts that Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn (or any grass) is any good for a Psychic Sand team, as it forces Volcarona in. You can probably drop it for gyroball or even Thunderwave to help prevent a volcarona setting up on Ferrothorn. Personally though, I have always found Gengar to do a mediocre job, and Will o' Wisp misses can be extremely frustrating.

On another note, there is has been a good arguement recently for Psyshock over Psychic on alakazam put forward by peng. There are some nice Ohko's that Alakazam gets with Psyshock. I added a few of the calc's below that I could think of off the top of my head. Things like tentacruel and rotom-wash it hits much harder, with the only down side I can think of is not hitting defensive Politoed as hard anymore (depending on the spread). So why have I been running Psychic all this time?

:alakazam: vs :tentacruel:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Tentacruel: 344-408 (94.5 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 260-308 (71.4 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

a guarenteed OHKO on tentacruel is always nice, escpecially with how easily Tentacruel can get back to full Hp in the rain

:alakazam: vs :Terrakion:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Terrakion in Sand: 246-290 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its really nice to not get Ko'd by something that you should on paper be beating, but most terrakion sets are substitute Swords dance, so its rarely every at full hp late in the game.

:alakazam: vs :rotom-wash:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Rotom-Wash: 126-148 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 105-124 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

this is a pretty nice increase, but Rotom-wash is also pretty chipable with Sand and Stealth Rocks up, so take as you will.
 
Gengar fits this build pretty well actually. I did a similiar 6 that I posted. Its a simple build with a simple strategy of get up hazards, cripple Tyranitar and let Alakazam sweep. The primary reasoning to using Gengar is because it generally draws dark types in like Tyranitar and other bulky mons such as Rotom-wash and burns them. This makes Latios and Alakazam so much more combersome to deal with. Tyranitar though would never feel forced to come in on a Rotom-wash. Gengar can also function as a last resort spin blocker as well, but it will really just be a sack on say Tentacruel or Excadrill to keep your hazards in play. Gengar's main presence isn't really for Shadow ball, but just Will o' Wisp really. Your main avenue for offensive pressence will be through Alakazam or your Landorus-Therian, but to get the most outta them, aggressively get up your hazards. Once you have hazards up and some burn's this style should be able to punch through opponents. Latios's would also benefit from a set change as well. There was a post back in this thread [here] with Colbur Latios which further helps you chip stuff like Tyranitar and roar out opponents for further hazard damage. Choice Specs or Dragon Gem Calm Mind would also work. I also have to agree with Peng's thoughts that Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn (or any grass) is any good for a Psychic Sand team, as it forces Volcarona in. You can probably drop it for gyroball or even Thunderwave to help prevent a volcarona setting up on Ferrothorn. Personally though, I have always found Gengar to do a mediocre job, and Will o' Wisp misses can be extremely frustrating.

On another note, there is has been a good arguement recently for Psyshock over Psychic on alakazam put forward by peng. There are some nice Ohko's that Alakazam gets with Psyshock. I added a few of the calc's below that I could think of off the top of my head. Things like tentacruel and rotom-wash it hits much harder, with the only down side I can think of is not hitting defensive Politoed as hard anymore (depending on the spread). So why have I been running Psychic all this time?

:alakazam: vs :tentacruel:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Tentacruel: 344-408 (94.5 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 260-308 (71.4 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

a guarenteed OHKO on tentacruel is always nice, escpecially with how easily Tentacruel can get back to full Hp in the rain

:alakazam: vs :Terrakion:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Terrakion in Sand: 246-290 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its really nice to not get Ko'd by something that you should on paper be beating, but most terrakion sets are substitute Swords dance, so its rarely every at full hp late in the game.

:alakazam: vs :rotom-wash:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Rotom-Wash: 126-148 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 105-124 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

this is a pretty nice increase, but Rotom-wash is also pretty chipable with Sand and Stealth Rocks up, so take as you will.
Thank you for the reply! It seems that Gengar's best use on this type of team is pure utility & annoyance. For a brief period I actually ran a Substitute, Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Pain Split set (although disable probably could've been used instead of Pain Split since personally I find so few opportunities to ever use it) which was hilarious at times although obviously unreliable thanks to 75% accuracy Wisp. I didn't bother with S-Ball because it did so little damage to the Pokemon that this set was supposed to annoy (T-Tar, Ferro, Skarmory) and I hardly found time to use it in battle w/o losing momentum and such.

And with regard to Latios, I have him with a scarf since I'm worried about getting into positions where it's Zam+Latios vs, for instance, a Pokemon that Zam can't 2HKO + a scarfer, which inevitably means Zam gets knocked out and if Latios isn't scarfed the win isn't guaranteed, so I'm a bit ambivalent about losing the speed that Latios provides, although to be fair I don't think I've experienced this particular situation more than once or twice, and it probably could've been avoided if I had set up hazards earlier and provided more chip damage throughout.

With Zam and Psychic v Psyshock: I only have so much experience, but since I'm so often stacking hazards and getting residual damage to weaken up mons like Terrakion throughout the game on Zam teams, it seems that I rarely get into those situations where a Terrakion, for instance, could actually beat me 1v1. Similar with Rotom-W, since he's often has to absorb a lot of passive damage — which gets way worse if you can land a knock off with a Ferro, even if this makes Ferro get burned.

Lastly, do you think that a more offensive Gengar — with life orb, F-Blast, Shadow Ball, maybe disable & substitute — has a place on any team style?
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
I don't think Gengar is particularly good in BW OU but it does have some crazy tools in its moveset that can make it a ok Alakazam partner.

One is Sucker Punch. It sounds like absolute shit but Gengar does an incredible job of forcing the likes of Alakazam, Starmie, and Scarf Latios to revenge kill. In fact, Sucker Punch Gengar has been one of the most consistent Alakazam baiters I've ever used and this can easily facilitate Pokemon that need that Sash broken on hyper offense, such as Dragonite, Volcarona etc.

The biggest problem with Gengar is consistency. Its a high ceiling, low floor Pokemon. One game, Gengar is an absolute menace and will cripple 1 pokemon whilst taking down another. Immediately afterwards you'll have a game where it misses the first Wisp or Focus Blast and is immediately OHKOd. I think its still a bit of an underexplored option but imo any set that completely relies on Wisp or Focus Blast is not going to live up to any teambuilder hype, especially because you're pairing it with other Psychics which have their own accuracy issues! To alleviate the consistency issue I've flirted with the idea of Knock Off (maybe even Trick+Tox Orb, cos you force out Glisc Reun and most Steels anwyay) in the last slot just so at least you make sure you take Chople Berry off of Tyranitar, or remove Leftovers from SDef Skarm if you ever feel like you can't risk the miss in certain situations. All theorymon but I reckon Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Knock Off / filler raises Gengar's floor so it always does at least something whilst keeping most of its insane upside. Another underrated one is Destiny Bond. This move is basically unseen in top level Pokemon and is broadly considered a trope of low ladder, but Destiny Bond + 3 Attack Gengar can very often trade 2 for 1 without needing to risk Focus Blast - I think its worth considering in BW OU for sure.
 
Last edited:
Skarmory @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Taunt

Gengar @ Dark Gem
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sucker Punch

Volcarona @ Bug Gem
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Breloom @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Dragonite @ Dragon Gem
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

Very noob-style hyper offense team that I'm laddering a bit with. Shoutout to Peng for giving me the idea of Sucker Punch. I gave a dark gem, not for any one particular damage roll, but since with a hasty nature and gem it does about ~45% to choice Latios on average.

One insight: Volcarona and Dragonite work well together. Volc demolishes Dragonite's checks and rips through sand.

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 382-451 (108.5 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Bug Gem Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (I don't think anyone runs max Special Defense anymore so this is usually just a straight OHKO)

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-Therian: 405-477 (106.5 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 153-182 (50.4 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Not a 1HKO, but...
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 174-206 (55.9 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
So it's fine.

Obviously it crushes Ferrothorn and Excadrill.

252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 208 HP / 252+ SpD Excadrill: 494-585 (119.6 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO so risking damage from earthquake isn't even necessary.

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 97-115 (31.1 - 36.9%) -- 76.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 109-130 (35 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Scarf Latios Surf vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 134-158 (43 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO


Some notes:

Heatran, which I've been seeing a bit more but not too much more, is somewhat annoying, but it's certainly manageable and can be scared out with Dragonite or Starmie and is easily revenge killed by Breloom.

Spinning is sometimes tough since Starmie is such huge entry bait for Ferrothorn, but Ferro is such setup fodder, even if just for a substitute for Gengar, that I don't think it really matters. Also, when against sand teams, I sometimes don't need to spin, since Volcarona does so much by itself that just extreme speed Dragonite and mach punch Breloom can generally finish the job.

I'm sometimes weak to rain when facing Max Special Defensive Tentacruel if I don't predict around it correctly. Specs and Scarf Politoed can also be shockingly annoying, even though I think that in general they're not very good.
 
Last edited:
Ok, I am a bit surprised no one bothered posting this so I may as well add to the ongoing Gengar conversation.
Gengar

Put the Gar back in GenGAR (Gengar) (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Will-o-Wisp / Destiny Bond

Gengar was seen as a worse Alakazam for a while, and it's hard not to see why. Its typing, movepool and stats don't seem bad on paper, but in practice just doesn't work in the BW OU Metagame. It gets worn down in Sand, chipped by Rocks every time it comes in, and has a very, very feeble defensive profile. However, with the recent discovery of Trick + Sticky Barb on Reuniclus, I think that perception should finally be called into question. If some might not already know, Gengar is one of the few mons that can actually send a damaging move successfully via Trick without getting damaged itself, with the other being Reuniclus. This is massive as Gengar much faster than Reuniclus, meaning that it would have a much easier time getting the Trick off. Having to take 12% damage every turn is huge for Psyspam since most of the answers to it lack reliable recovery, making Gengar a fantastic lure for Jirachi, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn and Scizor. But it doesn't even end there, Gengar can also act similarly to Rotom-W and Jellicent as a disruptor and revenge killer thanks to its fantastic movepool in the late game after it has tricked Sludge away. Destiny Bond when unrevealed can be absolutely game-breaking since most teams rely on Tyranitar to trap Gengar. Really, I think that this discovery should allow more serious BW OU Players to revisit this mon and further explore its potential.

Team I used: :tyranitar::gliscor::ferrothorn::latios::gengar::alakazam:
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Been using something very similar to the above six for a few weeks and really been liking it.

Basically, I think spinblocking is super underrated in BW. I think we largely dismiss things like Gengar and other frail Ghost-types because the spinners in Gen 5 are all so good - Analytic Starmie and Sand Force Excadrill are impossible to consistently spinblock in the literal meaning, as they have the potential to OHKO-2HKO (almost...) every Ghost in the game. As a result, people don't even consider spinblockers on the vast majority of Spikes teams. However, I think on offensive structures, even the power of sacrificial spinblocking is incredibly potent to keep hazards up and generate momentum with fast, spinner-threatening partners.

(note i'm not gonna mention MB Excadrill at all here really cos its a niche presence in the meta currently)

The obvious example of structures that abuse this is Psyspam, which follows a typical structure of:
:tyranitar:Tyranitar
:gliscor::landorus-therian:Ground-type Rocker
:skarmory::ferrothorn:Steel-type Spiker
:reuniclus::jellicent::rotom-wash:"filler"
:latios:Latios
:alakazam:Alakazam

Latios / Alakazam really like hazards support and ideally want them to stay up. In the absence of a spinblocker, certain Excadrill and Starmie+Volcarona structures can be rough MUs. This is an issue that the Ttar / Glisc / Ferro / Reun / Latios / Alakazam teams suffer most notably. Further, Alakazam is a near perfect partner for a KOd spinblocker as it can strongly threaten all the viable spinners with Psyshock (OHKO on 252 / 0 Tenta), Focus Blast (minimal chip on Excadrill) and Grass Knot / Signal Beam / Shadow Ball (minimal chip on Starmie). You can fit in Jellicent in the filler slot, though only really alongside Skarmory as the spiker. However, after some messing around I think Ferrothorn + fast/sacrificial Ghost can be super solid.


Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Will-o-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Structure::tyranitar::gliscor::ferrothorn::gengar::latios::alakazam:

Shared some replays of this around discord and Gamer1234556 has done a solid write-up above. The set here is what I think is optimal on the Ferrothorn Psyspam teams I mentioned above. Consistency is the name of the game, as even with a bulky EV spread (and you should go very bulky) Gengar is not fat enough to afford Focus / Wisp misses on critical turns. Trick is a reliable way to remove Chople Berry from Tyranitar at the very least, making this far more consistent than classic Focus Blast-based Gengar. Sludge also ruins the likes of SDef Skarmory and SDef Jirachi, two problematic mons for a lot of PsySpams. Will-o-wisp is still on the set but you rely on it far less than the old SubWisp sets - its a really scary move to be able to click on "free" turns and the potential crippling power of sludge + wisp onto something like Jirachi is nuts. Shadow Ball and Hidden Power [Ice] feel like the most consistent options, covering off two of BWs best Wisp switch-ins (Reuniclus and Gliscor) whilst Gengar's natural traits cover the third perfectly already (Breloom). Hidden Power [Ice] also makes great use of Gengar's underrated role as a hard Landorus-T answer, which is really appreciated on Psyspam that opts for Ferro over Skarmory.

Speaking of Ferrothorn support, I think now is a good time to mention that getting consistency out of spinblockers is super dependent on teambuilding in a way that makes predicting the Ghost switch-in a really risky play. An issue with (Leftovers) Skarmory + Gengar is that its not really risky at all for SF Excadrill to click Iron Head or Starmie to click Thunderbolt in the face of Skarmory, so there are strong midground plays available for the spinner that cover Gengar coming in. Skarm/Gengar feels like you'll never get the most out of Gengar as a result and will just use it as death fodder often which, whilst passable, is not ideal. Ferrothorn/Gengar is a different dynamic as SF Excadrill clicking Iron Head or Starmie opting for Hydro in the face of Ferrothorn takes grandes cojones, so it shifts way more risk onto the spin user by removing the midground options.


Rotom @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Structure::tyranitar::gliscor::ferrothorn::rotom::latios::alakazam:

Hold on a minute, hear me out. Base Forme Rotom looks diabolically bad, but on specific structures it might just be the best Ghost available. I had initially looked into Rotom for tournament prep as the Gengar team I had been using had been shared around a bit, and I felt like the surrounding structure of that team was so solid that I still wanted to use it if possible. Rotom stands out among the Ghosts as the only one to resist both Iron Head and Earthquake from Excadrill, therefore making it the only Ghost capable of avoiding the 2HKO from SF Excadrill (make it fast enough to hit 303 and then loooooads of bulk). This niche seems small but has huge ramifications for Psyspam: Tentacruel and Starmie are relatively easy to checkmate with offensive Ghosts as if they do KO something like Gengar, Alakazam in the back can pick up the scraps with Psyshock or GKnot/Shadow/Signal. Excadrill is another matter as it is regularly EVd to tank an Alakazam Focus Blast and thanks to Leftovers + Protect, can feasibly stay out of Focus range and make the sacrifice + revenge kill plan impossible. Not only that, but there's nothing worse than blocking a spin, then missing Focus as it spins on your Zam - ugh. Rotom helps address this issue by more directly dealing with Excadrill itself. Well EVd base Rotom can switch-in on Adamant SF Iron Head (for around 40%, shit is frail af) and immediately threaten with Will-O-Wisp. Rocky Helmet was a clutch suggestion made by BKC to hard punish attempts by Excadrill to brute-force its way through Rotom, every time chipping it into Alakazam Focus Blast range or, preferably, Latios Surf range for an easy pick-off. In addition to doing all this, Rotom can still be played as a sacrifice spinblock option into Starmie and Tentacruel with the right supporting cast behind it. All-in-all, Rotom + Alakazam is a shockingly consistent way of denying the 3 major spinners in BW OU, as mad as that sounds!

Beyond spin-blocking, Rotom brings some other small but important roles. Some teams are forced to deal with Rotom via Tyranitar which gets crippled by Will-O-Wisp + Rocky Helmet, helping out the Psychics. Rotom is also naturally strong against most variations of SDef Skarmory and Jirachi. Defensively, Rotom can be a clutch answer to SD Scizor on Smurf, which can be a real issue to the Psyspam cores above - Wisp + Rocky Helmet goes a long way to limit the impact Scizor can have on the game. Finally, Volt Switch is always appreciated with Alakazam to allow it to hit the field safely.

Rotom is an incredibly niche Pokemon, but is for sure an interesting option on some of these structures to really shut down spinning attempts. Will update this with Rotom replays in the near future.
 
Last edited:

Ununhexium

Orange Vanilla Coke
is a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
So I have been doing a bit of experimentation with different Pokemon on Seismitoad PsySpam teams and having a bit of fun with it. For those who don't know, Seismitoad is an option on Skarmory PsySpam teams (that I was introduced to by peng) that allows you to compress your Scald / Tentacruel switch-in and your SR setter into one slot, allowing for a filler Pokemon as your last. Historically, a lot of these teams have been something like Tyranitar / Skarmory / Gliscor / Jellicent / Latios / Alakazam or something similar, but Seismitoad allows you to put the Gliscor / Jellicent into one Pokemon, albeit one that does not spinblock.

So with this extra slot there are a couple of things you can do. One quality you might like is the ability to damage other Skarmory as that can be a big threat to Alakazam / Latios teams. Interestingly, the main 3 I have tried are also immune to Volt Switch, so there is less pressure to keep Seismitoad alive the entire match, which is nice as it tends to die. Generally, I prefer something heavily offensive that can sweep a team if given a chance. Primarily, I have experimented with SD Fighting Gem Landorus-T (another peng suggestion), SD Fire Gem Fire Fang Garchomp, and Agility + 3 Attacks Thundurus-T.

Landorus-T is probably the best option here as its massive Attack stat + powerful moves + SD boost makes it hit like a monster truck. Its other big advantage is that it's a pretty robust answer to Excadrill, so it can't spin for free just because your team is lacking a Ghost-type, as letting Lando come in and set up is pretty not ideal. Its ability to handle pretty much any physical attacker once is huge as well. Also check out this calc:

+2 252 Atk Fighting Gem Landorus-Therian Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 317-373 (94.9 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

If you have rocks up then Alakazam and Colbur Latios go nuts.

Garchomp is a really cool option because everyone knows how strong Garchomp is. I've used SD + Fire Gem to do stuff like this:

+2 252 Atk Fire Gem Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 316-372 (94.6 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Garchomp gives a slightly better rain matchup because it definitely outspeeds all Thundurus-T and a +2 Outrage just does a lot in general, but it lacks the ability to switch into Excadrill easily which is kinda unfortunate, but being really fast and strong and luring Skarmory is always nice.

Thundurus-T is probably my favorite just because I think it's really funny to use it out of rain, but it has sorta similar defensive properties to Landorus-T. It is sort of the opposite of Landot and Chomp offensively though, because they naturally obliterate Tyranitar and lure Skarmory whereas Thundy can naturally obliterate Skarmory but also brings in Tyranitar to try to check it. What's also really cool is that, though PsySpam naturally has a pretty good matchup against rain offense, a +2 Thundurus-T just kinda autowins after a bit of Latios chip. I've been using Thunderbolt on it because a Modest Thunderbolt hits hard enough most of the time and missing Thunder sucks, but really Thundurus-T outside of rain is something people should check out more because its a really good Pokemon that can set up against stuff like Excadrill or Ferrothorn and is just a really hard Pokemon to deal with because Electric / Fighting / Ice coverage is REALLY good and it can even slot in stuff like Grass Knot if you have a Water/Ground problem. So yeah Thundurus-T is really fucking good and people should use it more.

Anyway thanks for listening to my ramblings have a nice day
 
So recently I decided to try bringing back hail to the spotlight. Is it a good archetype in this metagame? Not really. But it didn't stop me from trying!

The White Wizard


As a lot of you may know, the biggest issue with hail is that there is no good way to cover all its major weaknesses including hazards while still pressuring the opponent. I think the popularity of Excadrill is passively helping hail by making some hazards setters like Skarmory less prevalent. It is also an excellent addition to hail since it can be both a setter and spinner without being as passive as Forretress. Sure there is a couple of pokemon that can punch through this such as some Brelooms but as long as this team keeps up the offensive, it can hold its own.

edit: Thanks for the edit phosphor
Specs Kyurem is really fun to use known as the only Dragon that works under Hail
I Updated the team and got very good Results and yea it isn't the Best but its p fun tho

Enjoy the Team
https://pokepast.es/1fc922c2cb76d9fa

The Basic point of the Team is to abuse Kyurem with Choice Specs as its Blizzard that can't miss under Hail is really strong factoring the Freeze chance, while having the Bulk and coverage with Earth Power and Focus Blast to deal with Steels its faster than with Timid Nature.
Here are some Calcs to show the Power of Specs Kyurem:

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Blizzard vs. 208 HP / 252+ SpD Excadrill: 277-327 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Blizzard vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 264-312 (80.7 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

52 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 167-197 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 237-280 (78.2 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

So yea with Specs Blizzard, it can 2 hit KO a ton of the Bulky Staples of OU and much of the Tier gets deteled by its STAB and ccoverage options and it also helps that Ice is just a great attacking type.
 
Last edited:
Garchomp deserves more love i think its one of the best pokemon but its exclusively used as a lead on hyper offence and some rain teams.

#445

Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dual Chop
- Earthquake
- Endure

I have been having alot of success with endure salac chomp it is amazing vs psy spikes after the physical walls die (gliscor ,skarm, lando) it cleans those teams up like nothing else rough skin scares priority from smurf you don't even need to get a salac boost you can pursuit the starmie and stay out of priority range.

#445


Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

This set is something i have not used as much but its very reliable it lures lando and toxics it allowing your physically based teammates to wreak havoc on the balance/psyspikes you might think glisc is a problem but in reality you can just set up on gliscors face and kill it this set struggles with skarmory which can be easily lures with sd gem lando or mamo this set is outragless to allow you to break fatter builds without locking into a steel. this set should be used on sand balance as its very hard to fit.

#445


Garchomp @ Fire Gem/Water Gem
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang/Aqua Tail

This is probably the best skarm lure in the game and its consistency is amazing and it fits on all team styles after you drop the skarm they will usually send out a psychic and you can pursuit it so this set is amazing with pursuit

More sets coming soon

Bonus team
I think that the more people realize that it's baiting in Skarm like nothing else that people will attempt to adapt around it, but I do agree it is very good, it can do more then what it initially seems and I like the ability to choose between great immediate power and coverage and the ability to potentially clean hard in late game, I think it's a very underexplored Pokemon with a lot of unique applications we can see it be used for, it kinda has everything.
 
Hey, I spammed some games on the ladder and just wanted to share a set that has been quite successful for me.

Probably one of my favorite Lando-T set :

landorus-therian.png

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Naive Nature
- Smack Down
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Earthquake

It's a set I put together after being very annoyed by Skarm and not liking the fact that i'm being reliant on predicts every single turn. I wanted a way to keep momentum and the pressure on, making the use of hazards more complicated. This set works like a charm for various reasons. It accomplishes its purpose by pressuring those fat Skarm teams and it also helps a lot vs balanced or even HO. The movepool is perfect to hit almost the whole tier and make the Substitute worth its 25% damage. It also gives the option of keeping the momentum vs annoying mons such as Rotom-W as they often spam V-Switch or Wow on the sub. The EVs are there to outspeed offensiv Toxicroak, but it can be adapted to whatever your team needs to keep an eye on.

Using Mons which can spam EQ would be nice with it, since sometimes you will first click sub then smack down on the Skarm's Whirlwind. The mon coming could possibly use EQ and keep the pressure on. I would also consider Mons that can deal with Gastrodon (burn or poison him so he gets 2hko by EQ) and Celebi which is a pain in the ass. Both are not very common but still.

I played it with Rotom-W standard and Excadrill Leftovers which are both emphasizing what I'm saying above about giving status and keeping the pressure on with EQ users. This Lando-T can also be used as a lure to get rid of opponents Lando-t / Gliscor. In that sense, you can put up a core with Terrakion Double Dancer or something else.

Putting all of these here so some of you trainers can come up with better core ideas :v
 
Hey, I spammed some games on the ladder and just wanted to share a set that has been quite successful for me.

Probably one of my favorite Lando-T set :

View attachment 390598
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Naive Nature
- Smack Down
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Earthquake

It's a set I put together after being very annoyed by Skarm and not liking the fact that i'm being reliant on predicts every single turn. I wanted a way to keep momentum and the pressure on, making the use of hazards more complicated. This set works like a charm for various reasons. It accomplishes its purpose by pressuring those fat Skarm teams and it also helps a lot vs balanced or even HO. The movepool is perfect to hit almost the whole tier and make the Substitute worth its 25% damage. It also gives the option of keeping the momentum vs annoying mons such as Rotom-W as they often spam V-Switch or Wow on the sub. The EVs are there to outspeed offensiv Toxicroak, but it can be adapted to whatever your team needs to keep an eye on.

Using Mons which can spam EQ would be nice with it, since sometimes you will first click sub then smack down on the Skarm's Whirlwind. The mon coming could possibly use EQ and keep the pressure on. I would also consider Mons that can deal with Gastrodon (burn or poison him so he gets 2hko by EQ) and Celebi which is a pain in the ass. Both are not very common but still.

I played it with Rotom-W standard and Excadrill Leftovers which are both emphasizing what I'm saying above about giving status and keeping the pressure on with EQ users. This Lando-T can also be used as a lure to get rid of opponents Lando-t / Gliscor. In that sense, you can put up a core with Terrakion Double Dancer or something else.

Putting all of these here so some of you trainers can come up with better core ideas :v
Really Cool set man, What does this set best fit on?
 
Really Cool set man, What does this set best fit on?
Thanks, I would say the best way to fit him is in a sand balanced team as it's how I mostly built my teams with him. Nevertheless I thought about different versions of this same idea.

You could for example use this set and turn it into an offensive style that would easily fit in a HO :

landorus-therian.png

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Rock Polish
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Gravity
- Earthquake

The thing I like about this version is that you will find an use for him no matter what matchup you face. If you play vs an HO, it can by your end sweeper as it does insane damage. If you get to play against a fat Skarm team, then its going to be very hard for your opp, if not impossible, to handle this set.

Basically the fattest mon you could encounter can get 2hko by EQ :
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 220-259 (51.8 - 61%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You just need to be careful about the way you use Gravity, it's a two way death trap.
 
Last edited:
Speaking of heat:

Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hidden Power [Ice]

alot of rotom W counters are terrified of switching into stab fire moves the downside is you don't switch into water moves and you are rock weak however burning tyranitar atleast warrents a niche
True, It does have a niche although its kinda limited.
https://pokepast.es/07f5e3800e6d5472
 

MANNAT

https://bit.ly/32YNZoV
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
For those of you that are still trying to make sun work in the year of our lord 2021, I just wanted to take a minute to talk about some things that I've been trying out in order to get around some of the traditional issues that individual mons have as well as the playstyle as a whole.

:bw/cresselia:
Cresselia (F) @ Mail
Ability: Levitate
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Skill Swap
- Moonlight

Historically, sun, especially builds with xatu, has had issues where it struggles to switch into choiced lati that comes into xatu or other members of the team lacking protect, as chansey's effectiveness drops like a rock if it gets tricked, which is an issue as it's the main latios answer. Many teams have endeavored to rectify this issue by stacking steels alongside chansey in order to potentially absorb trick, bit I think that mail cress is a much more consistent way to combat this issue. With scarf being the more common of the choiced latios sets, mail cress can switch into latios and laugh at the absolutely paltry damage that draco does as well as blocking trick. If your team is especially dire against latios (I've been experimenting with chansey drop), you can actually make cress super bulky and avoid a KO from consecutive draco meteors. With regards to the filler move, there's a few different options there that are all good, but I'll explain skill swap, as it's likely the least orthodox move on the set. Skill swap works in conjunction with teammates running toxic in order to completely turn the tables against cm reuni. It's also useful in miscellaneous niche situations like reverse trapping zone or stealing va from thundy, which is particularly useful on chansey drop since it bypasses substitute, Seeing as cress is the only reason sun is even worth giving a second look these days, finding ways to optimize it is always appreciated.

:bw/kyurem:
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Roost

Kyurem actually has a really interesting place on sun, as it dumpsters the fuck out of rain. Typically, refresh toed rain is really difficult to deal with because of toed's longevity, but this set turns that asset into a liability. Seeing as toed typically has to drop encore for refresh, this set can abuse that matchup and leverage toed to break against the rest of the team, which basically never has switchins for this monster. This set is no slouch against sand either, pairing very well with wisp tales against ttar and breaking that way instead. You'd think that kyurem isn't very useful against dragmag, but it's actually able to sub up on rachi, with many of them dropping iron head these days. Subroost kyurem is really underrated on teams that can clear sand in general, and I've found this to be most potent on sun more than anything else.

:bw/excadrill:
Excadrill (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Protect

Excadrill with a TON of bulk is an absolute godsend for sun for a multitude of reasons. It's able to switch into latios in sun for chansey, can munch an eq just in time to get a spin off, and just generally has absolutely absurd longevity. It solves a lot of traditional teambuilding constraints like where to fit hazards and spin, which is just really nice. This set is extremely useless against anything that isn't grounded, but you're not gonna be using exca against lando and the focus blasters anyways. Protect is by far one of the most important moves on sun to the point where I consider it to be more essential than iron head, due to the importance of being able to scout choiced breakers as well as scouting for random trick mons. One important thing with this set is that you need a different mon to deter hazards from ferro (I usually use xatu for this) as letting exca get knocked off throws away all of the incredible longevity that its bulk + lefties + tect provide you.

There's some other stuff that I've found to be useful for sun but it's probably too team specific to post here. I hope those of you that actually care enough to try to make sun work found this post informative and helpful!
 
Gliscor is one of my favorite pokes and since i am done with the garchomp sets I will share this gliscor (note i did not make this set):

1639002648146.png

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Toxic
- Knock Off/U Turn/Stealth Rocks/Wing Attack

Overview:
Sub toxic gliscor has been a huge threat in the past however the recent meta game is extremely hazard resilient. This gliscor is able to put the opponent on a fast timer gliscor toxic gliscor can be used with knock off to put the opponent on a even faster timer while also crippling skarmory reuniclus and other toxic absorbers. U turn creates momentum after you toxic the opponent it and the added chip ontop of the toxic is incredible. It is hard to fit non rocks gliscor so Stealth Rocks toxic gliscor is the on i recommend the most as you will most likely toxic one pokemon on the opposing team and set up stealth rocks Wing Attack is to make sure breloom does not absorb gliscor toxic it also hits volc and keld harder while being a solid neutral hit overall.

Support:
This set should usually be the stealth rocker however if you have another stealth rocker that is not complete volcorona food than you can use the non stealth rocking sets. This set is extremely dangerous with mag as being able to remove skarmory is huge for this set. This set appreciates sand for obvious reasons.

Conclusion: Use toxic gliscor more
 
I'm not a hugely experienced BW player, but I had a decent run in the most recent BW cup and spent quite a bit of time building and coming up with ideas for my recent playoffs matches. I didn't get to use nearly all of them, but maybe someone more experienced in the tier can take some of these ideas and improve them or do something cool with them.


Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 32 HP / 56 Atk / 228 SpD / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

The SubTect Excadrill I used on the team I built for my match vs McMeghan. The EVs lined up pretty perfectly for the team I was using, but I think a spread like this could be applied elsewhere. 32 HP hits a Substitute number so you can sub an extra time from full, and the SpD EVs mean that uninvested Amoonguss (I think it also covers a bit of additional investment) cannot break Excadrill's sub with Giga Drain, which often was tremendous in test games. SpD Excadrill is a dope buffer regardless for stuff like Latios, Alakazam, etc.


Salamence @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Brick Break
- Outrage

A pretty crazy Salamence set that I wanted to use on a rain offense, primarily to lure Ferrothorn and have almost perfect odds to OHKO with a +1 Fighting Gem Brick Break after rocks. Hydro Pump mauls Landorus in rain and also enables Salamence to pick off weakened Thundurus without having to lock into Outrage as well as devastate Excadrill without having to click Brick Break, among other targets. Naive nature is solid as an alternative, as +1 Brick Break still does a tremendous amount of damage to Ferrothorn and even has some odds to OHKO (albeit low ones), but I wanted to try to afford Adamant to maximize its OHKO potential. I practiced a decent amount with this and it did quite well, but maybe the surprise value inflated its results. Regardless, this set is a ton of fun.

Volcarona + Seismitoad Sand

I really wanted to try a Volcarona sand with a ton of hazard control in an attempt to maximize Volcarona's sweeping potential, so I paired it with Tyranitar, Excadrill, and Xatu to start. Xatu saw some use in BW cup on sands, and I was inspired by that idea. I then considered Seismitoad and really liked its synergy with Volcarona, enabling this team tremendously vs rain and Rotom-Wash while doing a decent job at patching up a lot of other holes. Seismitoad + Xatu is also a really nice core to help mitigate Keldeo issues to the point where I genuinely considered running Protect on Tyranitar to maximize this potential. Scarf Latios rounds out the team to drastically improve the DragMag matchup, which also has Ice Beam to surprise Gliscor. This team can struggle a lot vs opposing Excadrill, Garchomp, and some variants of Landorus-Therian, and it likely faces issues dealing with certain other types of offensive pressure, but it was really fun to build and it held its own in a lot of matchups. I think there's definitely potential for improving this team as well.
Hey Excal, I really like your Build and does well on Ladder. I updated the Team beacuse there were some Things that needed to be changed that would make it perform better against the OU Metagame as Black and White still evolves over time. This Team I modify was Built by My Knowledge and resources I used. Enjoy the Team :-)

Here is the Team: https://pokepast.es/bd4edb7fc52e416a


Changes:
1) Tyranitar's EV spread is built with +88 EVs to break through Reun more easily as its Crunch is doing more that 50% to 252 HP / +252 Def / 4 Spd Reun. Calcs: 88+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 228-270 (53.7 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
24 Special Attack EVs for Tyranitar's Fire Blast as Tyranitar is build to be a Mixed Attacker like it originally was.
16 Special Defense EVs on Tyranitar to pair with 232 HP EVs and more Spdef in Sand to make it Bulky as Possible on a Mix Set.
148 Speed EVs is used to outpace Specially Defensive Heatran and Bulky Swords Dance Breloom and SubPunch sets.

2) Xatu's EV spread is built with 252 HP and 184 Defense EVs let Xatu never be 2HKOed by standard Tyranitar's Crunch, even with sand damage, after Reflect. 72 Speed EVs make Xatu faster than all Tyranitar. Impish is the prefered nature if U-turn is being used. Basically the Standard Xatu that works.

3) Seismitoad's EV spread is built with 28 Speed EVs are used to outspeed standard specially defensive Heatran. 248 HP and 232 Defense EVs with a Bold nature prevent Seismitoad from being 2HKOed by Jolly Sand Force Excadrill's Earthquake after Protect.
Calcs: 252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Seismitoad: 162-192 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Just another Standard that Works.

4) Volcarona's EV spread is built with 184 Speed EVs to outpace Scarf Landorus at +1, +2 lets it outpace all Scarfers that reach a number in the 500's.
72 HP EVs to increase general Bulk and Max Special Attack is p self explanatory. A EV spread that can also work is 68 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 184 Spe that can increase Physical Bulk but not by a whole lot.

5) Excadrill's EV spread is built with 4 HP and 216 Special Defense to have a good chance to live Alakazam's Focus Blast as well living Timid Thundurus-T Focus Blast and takes hits like Latios Draco Meteors much better with Max Speed that outpace Thundurus-T if using Modest and outpace Adamant Dragonite and Mamoswine. The Rest EVs goes into Attack as Excadrill with a 135 Base Attack is still quite strong, even stronger with Sand Force.
Calcs: 252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 216 SpD Excadrill: 290-342 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 216 SpD Excadrill: 306-360 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

6) Latios EV spread is 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe is p simple as with Timid with a Choice Scarf, it allows Latios to outspeed all other Choice Scarf users and boosted sweepers in the tier. If you want, I could run Dragon Pulse over Roost for more consistency as Dragon Pulse gives a spammable late-game STAB attack. Personally I like Roost for longevity as Latios role on this Team is to keep Speed Control on this Team.
 
Last edited:
:landorus-therian: Fighting Gem Lando-T Appreciation Post :landorus-therian:

Fighting Gem Lando-T had always been a Mon I wanted to use but ended up foregoing since I struggled to build a team that could really afford it. Support Lando was huge back in 2019-20 (back when I was attempting to get a foothold on the meta) which meant that Fighting Gem Lando-T was ultimately an afterthought to me. I did try it out once with Finchinator's now outdated Fighting Gem Lando-T + Scarf Chomp Team (?), but it was when I was introduced to the other Rockers, namely SR Seismitoad and Celebi where my appreciation really took off. Now, I feel like Fighting Gem Lando-T is one of Lando-T's best sets atm especially with Skarmory's recent resurgence in the meta.

Fighting Gem Lando-T Hazard Stack
:tyranitar::skarmory::landorus-therian::seismitoad::latios::alakazam:

A few months back, we had a bit of a debate in the BW Discord server about Rocks Seis. I was first a bit skeptical due to Seis's nature of being Volc setup fodder, but it eventually became one of my favourite teams. The reason is that most of the time, I find myself having to constantly run Support Lando-T even when I want to experiment with Lando-T more niche sets such as the aforementioned Fighting Gem Set. The ability to transfer Rocks to your Rain check is massive as it enables that opportunity. The general idea is that Fighting Gem Lando-T is awesome for breaking Skarmory, which Zam likes as SpDef Skarm is easily one of Zam's biggest roadblocks. Rock Slide on Seis seems strange at first but the reason for this is to thwart any attempt of Volc to set up Quiver Dance.

The trickiest part of this team would have to be EVing Seismitoad. Non-Protect Seis can be a bit shaky as a Rain Check, but the fact that you have a Ground that can pivot into any of Thundy's attacks barring Grass Knot is still pretty big with how oppressive Thundy can be. I had 252 HP with 128 Attack EVs to guarantee that Rock Slide OHKOs Volc about 62.5% of the time (Since Volc runs 64 HP EVs nowadays). The 48 Defense EVs mean that you at least get 3HKOed by Scarf Keldeo's Secret Sword (though the addition of Latios in this team would mean that you are most likely not using Seis as a Keldeo check anyways). Lastly, 80 SpDef EVs mean that you have a better overall time standing up against Thundurus-T's Focus Blasts. Generally speaking, this is the way I EVed Seis so I don't exactly expect everyone to believe that this is a set-in-stone spread. I encourage anyone to play around this and maximise Seis's defensive properties.

Xatu Sand Balance
:tyranitar::skarmory::landorus-therian::seismitoad::xatu::garchomp:

Essentially a follow to the Xatu Sand Balance team I posted in the Teambuilding Competition (see here). The original idea of the team was that Xatu would free up Spin on Drill, but them problem was that Skarmory ends up walling your team anyways. I ended up realizing that Offensive Drill just doesn't cut it for that reason and replaced it with Fighting Gem Lando-T. It appears that the common approach to the Skarmory problem is to slap Zone on every team that struggles to force damage on Skarm, but in a team like this it exacerbates weaknesses to already bad MUs (such as Volcarona). Fighting Gem Lando-T in comparison generally does this job as it lures Skarm in and destroys it with Superpower whilst not compromising the overall composition of this team. Scarf Chomp is one of the biggest beneficiaries of Skarm's removal and in general is pretty solid as a lategame wincon (especially against Zam and Volc) as Scarf Lati has taken a hit in popularity. Since this team is a bit weak to Rain I went for 252 HP and 232 Def EVs on Seismitoad so that it can better sponge Keldeo's Secret Swords. The SpDef investment I foregone as Garchomp can also work as a semi-decent Thundy pivot.

CeleTran Sand Balance
:tyranitar::skarmory::landorus-therian::excadrill::celebi::heatran:

Basically my take on the ever timeless CeleTran Sand Balance team. The general idea is that Fighting Gem Lando-T breaks Skarm, which Drill and Celebi like as both hates Rocky Helmet Skarm. Having a SpDef Rocky Helmet Skarm of my own means that you both have an answer to Landorus-Therian and can afford Scarf Tar, which is pretty crucial as your speed control options are super limited. Finally, Flame Charge Heatran serves as a wincon against opposing Sand Teams and opposing HOs, where it can easily grab a +1 Speed boost and a much-needed answer to Volcarona. I wouldn't consider this team perfect by any stretch, but I feel like this is the best I could muster for a team structure like this.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top