BW OU Hub

:bw/keldeo:
Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump

I find that the 4th slot on Leftovers Keldeo can go to pretty much any move, and because of the amount of switches Keldeo forces, I decided to put Roar. It's especially nasty with Spikes so you can phaze in something like a Tyranitar and put it in more comfortable range for something like a Latios. You could also experiment with other items like a gem, but I generally like the longevity that Lefties brings.
:keldeo: :thundurus-therian: :latios: :politoed: :ferrothorn: :tentacruel:
 
1621332588129.png


Scizor @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Substitute
- Bug Bite
- Double Hit

This is an odd set I've been using a little to combat the 3 Psychic team that seems to be circulating a little recently. While it's a little unorthodox and still needs FAR more testing I think that it could have potential. Idea is that you come in on some strong special move and then by Subbing you've put your opponent in a guessing game after they switched potentially staring down a +1 Scizor behind Substitute, depending on the team you are facing this could be lethal. While Bullet Punch is necessary I feel like the last two moves are fairly customizable, Bug Bite is used for high-power stab against almost everything, while Double Hit can hit targets resistant to Bug Bite for neutral damage, as well as being the only move that could cleanly dispatch Alakazam if they though a Pursuit was coming (though I will admit this is rather unreliable). I feel as if Acrobatics could still be strong on this set as one of the highest power options Scizor could have, as is Pursuit if you really want to destroy those Psychic Pokemon and especially Jellicent.

"Why not just use Swords Dance"? Because for me I feel like getting Scizor into +1 Attack Behind a sub is far more difficult for my opponent to play around, allowing me to more surgically remove a certain Pokemon I may want gone for the rest of my team. Like I said it definitely needs more testing and is probably just a gimmick but I thought I'd share it anyways
 
Ive been using this Metagross alongside stock standards to great success:

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Hammer Arm

The idea is to take on Latios\Alakazam which are everywhere and pick them off with Pursuit+Bullet Punch. Unfortunately Latios needs two SR switchins to die. Also shrugs off Outrages and responds with a KO using Ice Punch on all the relevant quad-weak dragons. Hammer Arm is the coverage move of choice to hit Magnezone, Ferrathorn, etc. Obviously gets walled by a lot of stuff so I keep it on the bench until the situation calls for it, a utility 'Gross.
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
For the last couple months I've really enjoyed messing around with the standard Smurf team to try and optimise some match-ups better. I've already posted before about Scarf Salamence > Dragonite, which can be huge in the mirror match and is also solid into Psyspam.

In this post, however, I'm going to talk about Smurf variations that can improve the Rain match-up, often considered to be a near auto-loss especially if facing Scarf Keldeo iterations. In all three cases, manual Sunny Day is used to turn the match-up on its head; often Rain players will basically sacrifice Politoed vs lead Garchomp, and in this case a mid-to-lategame Sunny Day is often game-winning. Importantly, manual Sunny Day also significantly helps out Volcarona and Dragonite by removing Sandstorm, so they can't be passively chipped down by Sand balance teams.


Breloom @ Fighting Gem / Grass Gem
Ability: Technician
EVs: 212 Atk / 92 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunny Day
- Mach Punch
- Low Sweep
- Bullet Seed

We hear a lot about Sunny Day Breloom in DPP partnered with Pokemon that hate sand chip, but we rarely hear about it in BW. I think this is a mistake. Sunny Day on both Technician and Poison Heal Breloom has legitimate merit in a metagame where Sand chip or Rain-boosted Scalds otherwise strain the teambuilder so tightly. Also important to note is that I think there is room for more variation in Tech Loom EV spreads than we see currently. Its very easy to just slap 252 Atk / 252 Spe in and get into the game, but frail Pokemon like Breloom can benefit a lot from even a little bit of bulk investment. This spread is one I quite like - it tapers the speed down to just enough to beat 0 Speed Gliscor combined with a few EVs scraped from Attack to bump up its special bulk significantly. Just to put numbers on this, I think this Breloom is ~3% less powerful, but is now ~14% more bulky. This comes in handy a lot against a lot of Rain threats, and pairs nicely with the Sunny Day slot to ensure Breloom isn't getting OHKOd by Keldeo / Thundurus before it can switch weathers.


Scizor @ Life Orb / Some kind of Gem
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature
- Sunny Day (/Safeguard)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower (/U-turn)
- Pursuit

Maybe makes less sense than Breloom on paper, but in practice this can be hugely disruptive. In short, I rarely found myself clicking Swords Dance with Scizor when I had Swords Dance Breloom in tow as well, as you often only need one of them to boost to cripple Skarmory (esp if you have Fire Blast ChainChomp, which my team had also). This freed up a slot on Scizor for its suprisingly deep support movepool. I've messed around a lot with both Sunny Day and Safeguard, which are lovely anti-rain options. Sunny Day Scizor is a far more direct option, and works smoothly when your opponent sacrifices Politoed early, which you can't blame them for - who would use Sunny Day Scizor after all? Safeguard is a cool option too, allowing your Breloom, Volcarona, and Dragonite/Salamence to far more reliably switch into and setting up on Politoed / Tentacruel / Gastrodon / Jellicent / Rotom-W.


Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz

We saw this get used by Talah in RoAPL this year - apparently the Terrakion Smurf team we've seen in SPL originally had Sunny Day Volc on it but it never made the final cut, but Talah wanted to use this earlier version for his game vs Soulwind. Regardless, this game shows off the merits of Sunny Day Volcarona in the Rain match-up, notably stopping an opposing Sub Keldeo from becoming an issue (with a little bit of fortune). Further, Sunny Day with Leftovers overcomes Volcarona's poor survivability against Sand teams, and prevents the opponent from passively switching around Tyranitar / Gliscor / bulky waters to chip you into revenge-killable range. The downside here is, of course, really poor coverage that means you need to find other routes to hit Tentacruel (e.g. EQ Terrakion), but this is certainly a cool option.
 
Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 188 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Dragon Pulse

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Focus Blast

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 176 Def / 88 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I'm a bit of a noobie player. Have played BW OU for a bit but just barely 1400 on showdown lol.

I know this team is a pretty bland sand offensive-minded sand team mostly, although if anyone has any comments on specific EV spreads please give them. Generally I try to spread residual damage through rocks+spikes to give Zam and or Latios easier cleanup.

Of course, there's the Gengar set. I've been experimenting with Gengar as support on sand. Our malevolent friend is often maligned as frail, lacking switch-in opportunities, and not strong enough. Most of the time this is true. He also is set up bait for Volcarana if rocks aren't up. I have found, however, that the particular support set that I have can work at least somewhat consistently (You live and die by Will-O-Wisp accuracy though). It annoys stealth rock Garchomp, DragMag JIrachi, non mold breaker Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and other bulky hazard and status spreaders really well.

Unfortunately, it's often entry bait for Scizor and Tyranitar. This is of course where Will-O-Wisp comes in. Assuming the generic support Tyranitar or banded Scizor, if Gengar gets a burn on entry — not a particularly hard prediction in most cases — he can switch out even from a Pursuit and return for more annoyance later. He does become a bit of a liability late-game, though, thanks to the lack of special attack investment.

The main issue I've found with this set is that it's lacking in offensive presence. Sure, you can burn a variety of dragons and the aforementioned threats, but shadow-ball hits basically nothing super effectively and Gengar obviously can't run much special attack investment. The difference between this, and, for instance, Rotom-Wash bulky Wisp and Pain Split sets is that Gengar has taunt while Rotom has volt switch and better overall natural bulk. Any thoughts on bulky/annoying Gengar viability for this team?

I've also tried offensive Gengar sets for this team, but it's just so hard to make the right combination of Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Ice, Will-O-Wisp, Substitute, Disable, Pain Split, Thunder(bolt), Giga Drain, Psychic, and Taunt. This set would probably just run a standard 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP. This type of Gengar probably can't fit on this team, but I'd really like to hear whether anyone thinks an offensive Gengar is possible at all on any type of team style.
 

FNH

Plays GSC NU only
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
The main issue I've found with this set is that it's lacking in offensive presence. Sure, you can burn a variety of dragons and the aforementioned threats, but shadow-ball hits basically nothing super effectively and Gengar obviously can't run much special attack investment. The difference between this, and, for instance, Rotom-Wash bulky Wisp and Pain Split sets is that Gengar has taunt while Rotom has volt switch and better overall natural bulk. Any thoughts on bulky/annoying Gengar viability for this team?
Gengar fits this build pretty well actually. I did a similiar 6 that I posted. Its a simple build with a simple strategy of get up hazards, cripple Tyranitar and let Alakazam sweep. The primary reasoning to using Gengar is because it generally draws dark types in like Tyranitar and other bulky mons such as Rotom-wash and burns them. This makes Latios and Alakazam so much more combersome to deal with. Tyranitar though would never feel forced to come in on a Rotom-wash. Gengar can also function as a last resort spin blocker as well, but it will really just be a sack on say Tentacruel or Excadrill to keep your hazards in play. Gengar's main presence isn't really for Shadow ball, but just Will o' Wisp really. Your main avenue for offensive pressence will be through Alakazam or your Landorus-Therian, but to get the most outta them, aggressively get up your hazards. Once you have hazards up and some burn's this style should be able to punch through opponents. Latios's would also benefit from a set change as well. There was a post back in this thread [here] with Colbur Latios which further helps you chip stuff like Tyranitar and roar out opponents for further hazard damage. Choice Specs or Dragon Gem Calm Mind would also work. I also have to agree with Peng's thoughts that Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn (or any grass) is any good for a Psychic Sand team, as it forces Volcarona in. You can probably drop it for gyroball or even Thunderwave to help prevent a volcarona setting up on Ferrothorn. Personally though, I have always found Gengar to do a mediocre job, and Will o' Wisp misses can be extremely frustrating.

On another note, there is has been a good arguement recently for Psyshock over Psychic on alakazam put forward by peng. There are some nice Ohko's that Alakazam gets with Psyshock. I added a few of the calc's below that I could think of off the top of my head. Things like tentacruel and rotom-wash it hits much harder, with the only down side I can think of is not hitting defensive Politoed as hard anymore (depending on the spread). So why have I been running Psychic all this time?

:alakazam: vs :tentacruel:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Tentacruel: 344-408 (94.5 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 260-308 (71.4 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

a guarenteed OHKO on tentacruel is always nice, escpecially with how easily Tentacruel can get back to full Hp in the rain

:alakazam: vs :Terrakion:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Terrakion in Sand: 246-290 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its really nice to not get Ko'd by something that you should on paper be beating, but most terrakion sets are substitute Swords dance, so its rarely every at full hp late in the game.

:alakazam: vs :rotom-wash:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Rotom-Wash: 126-148 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 105-124 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

this is a pretty nice increase, but Rotom-wash is also pretty chipable with Sand and Stealth Rocks up, so take as you will.
 
Gengar fits this build pretty well actually. I did a similiar 6 that I posted. Its a simple build with a simple strategy of get up hazards, cripple Tyranitar and let Alakazam sweep. The primary reasoning to using Gengar is because it generally draws dark types in like Tyranitar and other bulky mons such as Rotom-wash and burns them. This makes Latios and Alakazam so much more combersome to deal with. Tyranitar though would never feel forced to come in on a Rotom-wash. Gengar can also function as a last resort spin blocker as well, but it will really just be a sack on say Tentacruel or Excadrill to keep your hazards in play. Gengar's main presence isn't really for Shadow ball, but just Will o' Wisp really. Your main avenue for offensive pressence will be through Alakazam or your Landorus-Therian, but to get the most outta them, aggressively get up your hazards. Once you have hazards up and some burn's this style should be able to punch through opponents. Latios's would also benefit from a set change as well. There was a post back in this thread [here] with Colbur Latios which further helps you chip stuff like Tyranitar and roar out opponents for further hazard damage. Choice Specs or Dragon Gem Calm Mind would also work. I also have to agree with Peng's thoughts that Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn (or any grass) is any good for a Psychic Sand team, as it forces Volcarona in. You can probably drop it for gyroball or even Thunderwave to help prevent a volcarona setting up on Ferrothorn. Personally though, I have always found Gengar to do a mediocre job, and Will o' Wisp misses can be extremely frustrating.

On another note, there is has been a good arguement recently for Psyshock over Psychic on alakazam put forward by peng. There are some nice Ohko's that Alakazam gets with Psyshock. I added a few of the calc's below that I could think of off the top of my head. Things like tentacruel and rotom-wash it hits much harder, with the only down side I can think of is not hitting defensive Politoed as hard anymore (depending on the spread). So why have I been running Psychic all this time?

:alakazam: vs :tentacruel:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Tentacruel: 344-408 (94.5 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 260-308 (71.4 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

a guarenteed OHKO on tentacruel is always nice, escpecially with how easily Tentacruel can get back to full Hp in the rain

:alakazam: vs :Terrakion:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Terrakion in Sand: 246-290 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Its really nice to not get Ko'd by something that you should on paper be beating, but most terrakion sets are substitute Swords dance, so its rarely every at full hp late in the game.

:alakazam: vs :rotom-wash:
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Rotom-Wash: 126-148 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 105-124 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

this is a pretty nice increase, but Rotom-wash is also pretty chipable with Sand and Stealth Rocks up, so take as you will.
Thank you for the reply! It seems that Gengar's best use on this type of team is pure utility & annoyance. For a brief period I actually ran a Substitute, Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Pain Split set (although disable probably could've been used instead of Pain Split since personally I find so few opportunities to ever use it) which was hilarious at times although obviously unreliable thanks to 75% accuracy Wisp. I didn't bother with S-Ball because it did so little damage to the Pokemon that this set was supposed to annoy (T-Tar, Ferro, Skarmory) and I hardly found time to use it in battle w/o losing momentum and such.

And with regard to Latios, I have him with a scarf since I'm worried about getting into positions where it's Zam+Latios vs, for instance, a Pokemon that Zam can't 2HKO + a scarfer, which inevitably means Zam gets knocked out and if Latios isn't scarfed the win isn't guaranteed, so I'm a bit ambivalent about losing the speed that Latios provides, although to be fair I don't think I've experienced this particular situation more than once or twice, and it probably could've been avoided if I had set up hazards earlier and provided more chip damage throughout.

With Zam and Psychic v Psyshock: I only have so much experience, but since I'm so often stacking hazards and getting residual damage to weaken up mons like Terrakion throughout the game on Zam teams, it seems that I rarely get into those situations where a Terrakion, for instance, could actually beat me 1v1. Similar with Rotom-W, since he's often has to absorb a lot of passive damage — which gets way worse if you can land a knock off with a Ferro, even if this makes Ferro get burned.

Lastly, do you think that a more offensive Gengar — with life orb, F-Blast, Shadow Ball, maybe disable & substitute — has a place on any team style?
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
I don't think Gengar is particularly good in BW OU but it does have some crazy tools in its moveset that can make it a ok Alakazam partner.

One is Sucker Punch. It sounds like absolute shit but Gengar does an incredible job of forcing the likes of Alakazam, Starmie, and Scarf Latios to revenge kill. In fact, Sucker Punch Gengar has been one of the most consistent Alakazam baiters I've ever used and this can easily facilitate Pokemon that need that Sash broken on hyper offense, such as Dragonite, Volcarona etc.

The biggest problem with Gengar is consistency. Its a high ceiling, low floor Pokemon. One game, Gengar is an absolute menace and will cripple 1 pokemon whilst taking down another. Immediately afterwards you'll have a game where it misses the first Wisp or Focus Blast and is immediately OHKOd. I think its still a bit of an underexplored option but imo any set that completely relies on Wisp or Focus Blast is not going to live up to any teambuilder hype, especially because you're pairing it with other Psychics which have their own accuracy issues! To alleviate the consistency issue I've flirted with the idea of Knock Off (maybe even Trick+Tox Orb, cos you force out Glisc Reun and most Steels anwyay) in the last slot just so at least you make sure you take Chople Berry off of Tyranitar, or remove Leftovers from SDef Skarm if you ever feel like you can't risk the miss in certain situations. All theorymon but I reckon Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Knock Off / filler raises Gengar's floor so it always does at least something whilst keeping most of its insane upside. Another underrated one is Destiny Bond. This move is basically unseen in top level Pokemon and is broadly considered a trope of low ladder, but Destiny Bond + 3 Attack Gengar can very often trade 2 for 1 without needing to risk Focus Blast - I think its worth considering in BW OU for sure.
 
Last edited:
Skarmory @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Taunt

Gengar @ Dark Gem
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sucker Punch

Volcarona @ Bug Gem
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Breloom @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Dragonite @ Dragon Gem
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

Very noob-style hyper offense team that I'm laddering a bit with. Shoutout to Peng for giving me the idea of Sucker Punch. I gave a dark gem, not for any one particular damage roll, but since with a hasty nature and gem it does about ~45% to choice Latios on average.

One insight: Volcarona and Dragonite work well together. Volc demolishes Dragonite's checks and rips through sand.

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 382-451 (108.5 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Bug Gem Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (I don't think anyone runs max Special Defense anymore so this is usually just a straight OHKO)

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-Therian: 405-477 (106.5 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 153-182 (50.4 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Not a 1HKO, but...
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 174-206 (55.9 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
So it's fine.

Obviously it crushes Ferrothorn and Excadrill.

252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 208 HP / 252+ SpD Excadrill: 494-585 (119.6 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO so risking damage from earthquake isn't even necessary.

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 97-115 (31.1 - 36.9%) -- 76.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 109-130 (35 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Scarf Latios Surf vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 134-158 (43 - 50.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO


Some notes:

Heatran, which I've been seeing a bit more but not too much more, is somewhat annoying, but it's certainly manageable and can be scared out with Dragonite or Starmie and is easily revenge killed by Breloom.

Spinning is sometimes tough since Starmie is such huge entry bait for Ferrothorn, but Ferro is such setup fodder, even if just for a substitute for Gengar, that I don't think it really matters. Also, when against sand teams, I sometimes don't need to spin, since Volcarona does so much by itself that just extreme speed Dragonite and mach punch Breloom can generally finish the job.

I'm sometimes weak to rain when facing Max Special Defensive Tentacruel if I don't predict around it correctly. Specs and Scarf Politoed can also be shockingly annoying, even though I think that in general they're not very good.
 
Last edited:
Ok, I am a bit surprised no one bothered posting this so I may as well add to the ongoing Gengar conversation.
Gengar

Put the Gar back in GenGAR (Gengar) (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Will-o-Wisp / Destiny Bond

Gengar was seen as a worse Alakazam for a while, and it's hard not to see why. Its typing, movepool and stats don't seem bad on paper, but in practice just doesn't work in the BW OU Metagame. It gets worn down in Sand, chipped by Rocks every time it comes in, and has a very, very feeble defensive profile. However, with the recent discovery of Trick + Sticky Barb on Reuniclus, I think that perception should finally be called into question. If some might not already know, Gengar is one of the few mons that can actually send a damaging move successfully via Trick without getting damaged itself, with the other being Reuniclus. This is massive as Gengar much faster than Reuniclus, meaning that it would have a much easier time getting the Trick off. Having to take 12% damage every turn is huge for Psyspam since most of the answers to it lack reliable recovery, making Gengar a fantastic lure for Jirachi, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn and Scizor. But it doesn't even end there, Gengar can also act similarly to Rotom-W and Jellicent as a disruptor and revenge killer thanks to its fantastic movepool in the late game after it has tricked Sludge away. Destiny Bond when unrevealed can be absolutely game-breaking since most teams rely on Tyranitar to trap Gengar. Really, I think that this discovery should allow more serious BW OU Players to revisit this mon and further explore its potential.

Team I used: :tyranitar::gliscor::ferrothorn::latios::gengar::alakazam:
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Been using something very similar to the above six for a few weeks and really been liking it.

Basically, I think spinblocking is super underrated in BW. I think we largely dismiss things like Gengar and other frail Ghost-types because the spinners in Gen 5 are all so good - Analytic Starmie and Sand Force Excadrill are impossible to consistently spinblock in the literal meaning, as they have the potential to OHKO-2HKO (almost...) every Ghost in the game. As a result, people don't even consider spinblockers on the vast majority of Spikes teams. However, I think on offensive structures, even the power of sacrificial spinblocking is incredibly potent to keep hazards up and generate momentum with fast, spinner-threatening partners.

(note i'm not gonna mention MB Excadrill at all here really cos its a niche presence in the meta currently)

The obvious example of structures that abuse this is Psyspam, which follows a typical structure of:
:tyranitar:Tyranitar
:gliscor::landorus-therian:Ground-type Rocker
:skarmory::ferrothorn:Steel-type Spiker
:reuniclus::jellicent::rotom-wash:"filler"
:latios:Latios
:alakazam:Alakazam

Latios / Alakazam really like hazards support and ideally want them to stay up. In the absence of a spinblocker, certain Excadrill and Starmie+Volcarona structures can be rough MUs. This is an issue that the Ttar / Glisc / Ferro / Reun / Latios / Alakazam teams suffer most notably. Further, Alakazam is a near perfect partner for a KOd spinblocker as it can strongly threaten all the viable spinners with Psyshock (OHKO on 252 / 0 Tenta), Focus Blast (minimal chip on Excadrill) and Grass Knot / Signal Beam / Shadow Ball (minimal chip on Starmie). You can fit in Jellicent in the filler slot, though only really alongside Skarmory as the spiker. However, after some messing around I think Ferrothorn + fast/sacrificial Ghost can be super solid.


Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Will-o-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Structure::tyranitar::gliscor::ferrothorn::gengar::latios::alakazam:

Shared some replays of this around discord and Gamer1234556 has done a solid write-up above. The set here is what I think is optimal on the Ferrothorn Psyspam teams I mentioned above. Consistency is the name of the game, as even with a bulky EV spread (and you should go very bulky) Gengar is not fat enough to afford Focus / Wisp misses on critical turns. Trick is a reliable way to remove Chople Berry from Tyranitar at the very least, making this far more consistent than classic Focus Blast-based Gengar. Sludge also ruins the likes of SDef Skarmory and SDef Jirachi, two problematic mons for a lot of PsySpams. Will-o-wisp is still on the set but you rely on it far less than the old SubWisp sets - its a really scary move to be able to click on "free" turns and the potential crippling power of sludge + wisp onto something like Jirachi is nuts. Shadow Ball and Hidden Power [Ice] feel like the most consistent options, covering off two of BWs best Wisp switch-ins (Reuniclus and Gliscor) whilst Gengar's natural traits cover the third perfectly already (Breloom). Hidden Power [Ice] also makes great use of Gengar's underrated role as a hard Landorus-T answer, which is really appreciated on Psyspam that opts for Ferro over Skarmory.

Speaking of Ferrothorn support, I think now is a good time to mention that getting consistency out of spinblockers is super dependent on teambuilding in a way that makes predicting the Ghost switch-in a really risky play. An issue with (Leftovers) Skarmory + Gengar is that its not really risky at all for SF Excadrill to click Iron Head or Starmie to click Thunderbolt in the face of Skarmory, so there are strong midground plays available for the spinner that cover Gengar coming in. Skarm/Gengar feels like you'll never get the most out of Gengar as a result and will just use it as death fodder often which, whilst passable, is not ideal. Ferrothorn/Gengar is a different dynamic as SF Excadrill clicking Iron Head or Starmie opting for Hydro in the face of Ferrothorn takes grandes cojones, so it shifts way more risk onto the spin user by removing the midground options.


Rotom @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Structure::tyranitar::gliscor::ferrothorn::rotom::latios::alakazam:

Hold on a minute, hear me out. Base Forme Rotom looks diabolically bad, but on specific structures it might just be the best Ghost available. I had initially looked into Rotom for tournament prep as the Gengar team I had been using had been shared around a bit, and I felt like the surrounding structure of that team was so solid that I still wanted to use it if possible. Rotom stands out among the Ghosts as the only one to resist both Iron Head and Earthquake from Excadrill, therefore making it the only Ghost capable of avoiding the 2HKO from SF Excadrill (make it fast enough to hit 303 and then loooooads of bulk). This niche seems small but has huge ramifications for Psyspam: Tentacruel and Starmie are relatively easy to checkmate with offensive Ghosts as if they do KO something like Gengar, Alakazam in the back can pick up the scraps with Psyshock or GKnot/Shadow/Signal. Excadrill is another matter as it is regularly EVd to tank an Alakazam Focus Blast and thanks to Leftovers + Protect, can feasibly stay out of Focus range and make the sacrifice + revenge kill plan impossible. Not only that, but there's nothing worse than blocking a spin, then missing Focus as it spins on your Zam - ugh. Rotom helps address this issue by more directly dealing with Excadrill itself. Well EVd base Rotom can switch-in on Adamant SF Iron Head (for around 40%, shit is frail af) and immediately threaten with Will-O-Wisp. Rocky Helmet was a clutch suggestion made by BKC to hard punish attempts by Excadrill to brute-force its way through Rotom, every time chipping it into Alakazam Focus Blast range or, preferably, Latios Surf range for an easy pick-off. In addition to doing all this, Rotom can still be played as a sacrifice spinblock option into Starmie and Tentacruel with the right supporting cast behind it. All-in-all, Rotom + Alakazam is a shockingly consistent way of denying the 3 major spinners in BW OU, as mad as that sounds!

Beyond spin-blocking, Rotom brings some other small but important roles. Some teams are forced to deal with Rotom via Tyranitar which gets crippled by Will-O-Wisp + Rocky Helmet, helping out the Psychics. Rotom is also naturally strong against most variations of SDef Skarmory and Jirachi. Defensively, Rotom can be a clutch answer to SD Scizor on Smurf, which can be a real issue to the Psyspam cores above - Wisp + Rocky Helmet goes a long way to limit the impact Scizor can have on the game. Finally, Volt Switch is always appreciated with Alakazam to allow it to hit the field safely.

Rotom is an incredibly niche Pokemon, but is for sure an interesting option on some of these structures to really shut down spinning attempts. Will update this with Rotom replays in the near future.
 
Last edited:

Ununhexium

Orange Vanilla Coke
is a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
So I have been doing a bit of experimentation with different Pokemon on Seismitoad PsySpam teams and having a bit of fun with it. For those who don't know, Seismitoad is an option on Skarmory PsySpam teams (that I was introduced to by peng) that allows you to compress your Scald / Tentacruel switch-in and your SR setter into one slot, allowing for a filler Pokemon as your last. Historically, a lot of these teams have been something like Tyranitar / Skarmory / Gliscor / Jellicent / Latios / Alakazam or something similar, but Seismitoad allows you to put the Gliscor / Jellicent into one Pokemon, albeit one that does not spinblock.

So with this extra slot there are a couple of things you can do. One quality you might like is the ability to damage other Skarmory as that can be a big threat to Alakazam / Latios teams. Interestingly, the main 3 I have tried are also immune to Volt Switch, so there is less pressure to keep Seismitoad alive the entire match, which is nice as it tends to die. Generally, I prefer something heavily offensive that can sweep a team if given a chance. Primarily, I have experimented with SD Fighting Gem Landorus-T (another peng suggestion), SD Fire Gem Fire Fang Garchomp, and Agility + 3 Attacks Thundurus-T.

Landorus-T is probably the best option here as its massive Attack stat + powerful moves + SD boost makes it hit like a monster truck. Its other big advantage is that it's a pretty robust answer to Excadrill, so it can't spin for free just because your team is lacking a Ghost-type, as letting Lando come in and set up is pretty not ideal. Its ability to handle pretty much any physical attacker once is huge as well. Also check out this calc:

+2 252 Atk Fighting Gem Landorus-Therian Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 317-373 (94.9 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

If you have rocks up then Alakazam and Colbur Latios go nuts.

Garchomp is a really cool option because everyone knows how strong Garchomp is. I've used SD + Fire Gem to do stuff like this:

+2 252 Atk Fire Gem Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 316-372 (94.6 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Garchomp gives a slightly better rain matchup because it definitely outspeeds all Thundurus-T and a +2 Outrage just does a lot in general, but it lacks the ability to switch into Excadrill easily which is kinda unfortunate, but being really fast and strong and luring Skarmory is always nice.

Thundurus-T is probably my favorite just because I think it's really funny to use it out of rain, but it has sorta similar defensive properties to Landorus-T. It is sort of the opposite of Landot and Chomp offensively though, because they naturally obliterate Tyranitar and lure Skarmory whereas Thundy can naturally obliterate Skarmory but also brings in Tyranitar to try to check it. What's also really cool is that, though PsySpam naturally has a pretty good matchup against rain offense, a +2 Thundurus-T just kinda autowins after a bit of Latios chip. I've been using Thunderbolt on it because a Modest Thunderbolt hits hard enough most of the time and missing Thunder sucks, but really Thundurus-T outside of rain is something people should check out more because its a really good Pokemon that can set up against stuff like Excadrill or Ferrothorn and is just a really hard Pokemon to deal with because Electric / Fighting / Ice coverage is REALLY good and it can even slot in stuff like Grass Knot if you have a Water/Ground problem. So yeah Thundurus-T is really fucking good and people should use it more.

Anyway thanks for listening to my ramblings have a nice day
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 5)

Top