CAP 24 CAP 24 - Part 6 - Counters Discussion

[Frostbiyt]

Editing my post to do some calcs that better reflect the usage stats posted below. These calcs are using earth power with enough SpA to OHKO 232/248+ Heatran with Earth Power.
Against Mollux:

Calcs

252+ SpA CAP Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 385-458 (97.7 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 492-580 (144.2 - 170%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA CAP Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mollux: 530-624 (160.1 - 188.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mollux Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 688-816 (201.7 - 239.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Unless CAP is slower than Mollux, only scarf Mollux would be able to take on CAP.

Against Victini:

Calcs

252+ SpA CAP Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 276-325 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(sun)
252+ SpA CAP Weather Ball (100 BP Rock) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini in Sand: 307-361 (90 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO(sand)
252 SpA Victini Searing Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP in Sun: 410-486 (120.2 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO(sun)
252 SpA Victini Searing Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(sand)

How well Victini checks CAP would depend entirely on speed. But Basically Victini is not a reliable check in this scenario

Against Magearna:

Calcs

252+ SpA CAP Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna in Sun: 205-242 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(sun)
252+ SpA CAP Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 122-146 (33.6 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO(sand)
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 177-208 (51.9 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA CAP Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna in Sun: 411-484 (136.5 - 160.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO(sun)
252+ SpA CAP Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 244-289 (81 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(sand)
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Whimsicott: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Neither Magearna set threatens a full health CAP in sun. It could work as a check in sand though.

Old Post

Here are some calcs I did with HP Ground assuming CAP has just high enough SpA to OHKO non defensive Heatran.
Against Mollux:

Calcs

252+ SpA CAP Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 240-283 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 492-580 (144.2 - 170%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA CAP Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mollux: 326-384 (98.4 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mollux Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 688-816 (201.7 - 239.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The first two are with Specially Defensive Mollux and CAP loses the 1v1. The last two are with Choice Scarf, so if CAP is slower than Scarf Mollux, then Mollux wins the 1v1. CAP would probably discourage Mollux from switching in, but if it's brought in without taking damage it would beat or force out CAP. So Mollux would be a Check.

Against Victini:

Calcs

252+ SpA CAP Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 170-202 (49.8 - 59.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Victini Searing Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP in Sun: 410-486 (120.2 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Victini Searing Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Victini definitely wins in a 1v1 in the sun. It could even probably set up Z Celebrate against CAP. It couldn't safely switch in to HP Ground unless it's faster than CAP and in the sun. So it would be a check in the sun. How it does against CAP in sand depends on which is faster.

Against Magearna:

Calcs

252+ SpA CAP Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna in Sun: 185-218 (50.9 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(sun)
252+ SpA CAP Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 74-89 (20.3 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO(sand)
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 177-208 (51.9 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA CAP Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna in Sun: 374-442 (124.2 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO(sun)
252+ SpA CAP Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 149-178 (49.5 - 59.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO(sand)
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Whimsicott: 213-252 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Magearna doesn't give CAP much trouble in the sun with fire coverage in the form of weather ball, but it is more of a threat in sand. AV Magearna would probably counter CAP in sand.

 

[Mx]

Poison-types: Their STAB might be x4 effective against us, but I find pretty hard to justify calling them "counters" to CAP 24, as they either rarely use Poison moves (Fidgit) or they're x4 weak against Ground (Plasmanta, Mollux, Crucibelle), meaning that it would be unrealistic to expect this project to be unable to 2HKO them,, given that we'll at least have HP Ground (252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 203-239 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery). That being said, I would agree with the idea of CAP being unable to deal with Poison-types outside of Hidden Power.

Victini: Should be a check, it will most likely OHKO CAP 24 with a STAB Fire move and resist both of our STABs, but it is unlikely to be able to come in repeatedly, especially if we catch it on the switch with coverage (252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 143-169 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)

 

[TKGriffiths]

non defensive Heatran

You mean uninvested 0/0 Heatran? I think that's way too optimistic.

Also the calcs are kind of pointless unless you provide the base stat numbers you're using on CAP's side.

 

[Escavalier Royale]

Here are some calcs I did with HP Ground assuming CAP has just high enough SpA to OHKO non defensive Heatran.
Against Mollux:

Calcs

252+ SpA CAP Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 240-283 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 492-580 (144.2 - 170%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA CAP Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mollux: 326-384 (98.4 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mollux Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 688-816 (201.7 - 239.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The first two are with Specially Defensive Mollux and CAP loses the 1v1. The last two are with Choice Scarf, so if CAP is slower than Scarf Mollux, then Mollux wins the 1v1. CAP would probably discourage Mollux from switching in, but if it's brought in without taking damage it would beat or force out CAP. So Mollux would be a Check.

Feel free to remove this post if it feels too much like polljumping.

Imo, listing Hidden Power Ground as our way of hitting Heatran is pretty pointless since I did some calcs and even with a Modest nature we need a really high special attack to guarantee the OHKO on 0/4 Heatran. In other words, we're either gonna need a ridiculous special attack stat, Earth Power, or assume Heatran has taken significant chip, especially if it's running a defensive set. Considering we set our own sun, not OHKOing Heatran will very likely result in us getting OHKOed in return (even in the rare scenario it's completely uninvested, Heatran will be launching us a base 130 SpA 100 BP Sun-boosted SE STAB, don't tell me we're living that), so Earth Power is almost mandatory. The calcs I did assume no boosting item though, but CAP24 will very likely hold a Heat Rock anyways, and your calcs didn't account for boosting items or, more important, potential Growth boosts either. Assuming Heatran and Mollux have roughly the same special bulk (and very similar stats in general), I think it's nigh impossible to beat one of the two while being checked by the other. Even if we give it Focus Blast instead of Earth Power, a 4x HP Ground is just as powerful as a x2 Focus Blast while being much more accurate, making this scenario pretty neglectable.

Your calcs also weren't really fair as they assumed a minimum bulk Heatran and a maximum bulk Mollux. Although that's a lesser factor as Mollux's best sets in the current meta are max special bulk and Scarf, and Scarf will very likely outspeed non-Scarf CAP24 to check it anyway, but checks should be entire mons and not just specific sets unless that specific set is the mon's only viable set.

Also I'm pretty sure the point of this thread is determining which mons will be CAP24's checks, so we can adjust the stats to make them checks. Saying things like "This is a check if CAP has this SpA stat" (in this case just enough to OHKO offensive Heatran with HP Ground) is completely against the point of this.

 

[Hys]

Victini should definitely be a check to CAP24. Good natural bulk, possibilities for either Scarf, Assault Vest, or even Z-Celebrate, means that it can easily revenge kill CAP24, or potentially even more dangerously will grab switch priority or even set up its Z-Celebrate. Due to Victini's natural set diversity, and that is has STAB Fire type coverage, should mean at a minimum it should check CAP24 (Trace wont help, as it's getting Victory Star as n ability, which wont be useful most of the time).

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

I want to save Chansey for later as it is its own beast, but a short answer is that I think that it should absolutely be a counter, because it gives us more than one major counter and keep it away from non-concept stuff like Leech Seed and Taunt.

As for the other three: (tested with the standard 125 SpA)

Mollux: Its ability to stay in is mostly dependent on CAP24's coverage options, but we can still have a tough time with it. Earth Power wins the 1v1 with investment and a good item quite handily, but Mollux can still take a hit from Hidden Power Ground and destroy us with Sludge Bomb. Scarf Mollux, although not that common, can still be a worry. I'd probably say to put it in soft check for now just because of the possibility, but it could very easily be punted off the list.

252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 380-452 (96.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 255-302 (64.7 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Victini: Victini is the bestest mon and it looks super cool and it should counter every set.

Jokes aside, Victini should absolutely check us. V-Create alone should be reason enough to be able to scare us at least. Even if it is unboosted and we go first, it can still take a hit from anything bar Earth Power and can still damage us massively, if not KO us, with either choice of Fire STABs, especiallly in Sun. Did I mention Scarfed V-Create yet? Check.

252 SpA Victini Searing Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Whimsicott: 272-324 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 182-216 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Magearna: This one is tricky, because a lot of possible coverage used to take on other mons can be used to beat it. Assault Vest is easily the most reliable of the sets to combat CAP24, tanking a lot of the coverage relatively well. Even still, I am fairly certain Magearna can take these hits at least once and utterly destroy us with possibilities such as Steelium Z or even a decently invested Flash Cannon. I would put it under check.

 

[Frostbiyt]

You mean uninvested 0/0 Heatran? I think that's way too optimistic.

Also the calcs are kind of pointless unless you provide the base stat numbers you're using on CAP's side.

I left out the specific special stat I used because it doesn't matter what it is, just that it's high enough to OHKO Heatran. The calcs would be pretty much the same if I used 92 SpA with choice specs, 162 SpA with no item, or what I actually used which was 126 SpA with an expert belt. They all give the same results.

Edit: You probably meant defensive stats. I used 100/100/100, which are optimistic.

I don't know exact usage statistics, but non-defensive Heatran sets are not uncommon, at least in standard OU. To OHKO the specially defensive set with HP Ground takes a very high SpA stat(177 w/Specs) that I thought was unreasonable.

Feel free to remove this post if it feels too much like polljumping.

Imo, listing Hidden Power Ground as our way of hitting Heatran is pretty pointless since I did some calcs and even with a Modest nature we need a really high special attack to guarantee the OHKO on 0/4 Heatran. In other words, we're either gonna need a ridiculous special attack stat, Earth Power, or assume Heatran has taken significant chip, especially if it's running a defensive set. Considering we set our own sun, not OHKOing Heatran will very likely result in us getting OHKOed in return (even in the rare scenario it's completely uninvested, Heatran will be launching us a base 130 SpA 100 BP Sun-boosted SE STAB, don't tell me we're living that), so Earth Power is almost mandatory. The calcs I did assume no boosting item though, but CAP24 will very likely hold a Heat Rock anyways, and your calcs didn't account for boosting items or, more important, potential Growth boosts either. Assuming Heatran and Mollux have roughly the same special bulk (and very similar stats in general), I think it's nigh impossible to beat one of the two while being checked by the other. Even if we give it Focus Blast instead of Earth Power, a 4x HP Ground is just as powerful as a x2 Focus Blast while being much more accurate, making this scenario pretty neglectable.

Your calcs also weren't really fair as they assumed a minimum bulk Heatran and a maximum bulk Mollux. Although that's a lesser factor as Mollux's best sets in the current meta are max special bulk and Scarf, and Scarf will very likely outspeed non-Scarf CAP24 to check it anyway, but checks should be entire mons and not just specific sets unless that specific set is the mon's only viable set.

Also I'm pretty sure the point of this thread is determining which mons will be CAP24's checks, so we can adjust the stats to make them checks. Saying things like "This is a check if CAP has this SpA stat" (in this case just enough to OHKO offensive Heatran with HP Ground) is completely against the point of this.

For Mollux I used both of the sets that are on the showdown calculator, not just the Specially defensive one.

Also, like I said earlier in the post, the specific SpA stat doesn't really matter. Even the specific move I used doesn't really matter either. I was just trying to show how using a ground move to deal with Heatran would affect other potential threats.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

Stats are pointless unless they have a use.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-02/moveset/gen7cap-1760.txt

Lists the most up to date usage of Heatran's spreads; if you want to check others, feel free to go back through the directory.

 

[Frostbiyt]

I didn't realize how low the usage was, I'll redo the calcs and edit my post. In that case though, CAP will need strong ground coverage to beat Heatran 1v1.

 

[Drapionswing]

Posting an updated threatlist based on discussion thus far, pokemon with "(?)" next to them are pokemon I'd like to see more discussion on. If you have any more pokemon you'd like to address please make sure you do so.

Pokemon we want to beat:

Sun:
Heatran, Crawdaunt, Latios, Mega Latios, Pajantom, Zygarde,

Sand:
Heatran, Landorus-T, Tapu Bulu, Tomohawk


Pokemon we want to pressure/threaten:
Mega Mawille, Mega Charizard X, Cawmodore, Ash Greninja, Kartana, Marowak-Alola, Celesteela

Pokemon we want to check Cap24:
Fire-Types: Mega Charizard Y, Volcarona, Marowak-Alola, Pyroak(Sand), Blacephalon, Victini
Steel Types: Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Magearna
Poison Types: Plasmanta, Fidgit, Mollux, Crucibelle, Mega Crucibelle, Toxapex
Priority Users: Kitsunoh, Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor, Syclant, Cawmodore
Other: Mega Alakazam, Hawlucha

Pokemon we want to counter Cap24:
Mega Venusaur(?)
Pyroak(Sun)(?)
Chansey

 

[reachzero]

I'm having a hard time finding it, so I'd like to ask for clarification on what we're talking about when we say "threaten"
because unless we're faster than base 100, and have a huge amount of SpA, I don't see how we could possibly threaten Charizard-X.

The math of it is simple. Base 120 SpA with Life Orb is enough to KO Charizard-X after SR, but without Life Orb you can't KO it even with 130
with Moonblast. To seriously threaten Charizard-X, we would need to be faster than base 100 and have Earth Power (and never switch in on Flare Blitz, easier said than done).

However, if we're faster than base 100 and have Life Orb , which you need to threaten Charizard-X, then you 2HKO Charizard-Y cleanly after Stealth Rock:

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Bulu Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 109-129 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(with base 120 SpA)

This means that I don't see how we could possibly threaten X while being checked by Y unless you're going to assume that CAP 24 will be faster than base 100 and have Earth Power, because without Earth Power, CAP 24 can only have sets that either do not threaten either Charizard-X or -Y or which threaten both Charizard-X and -Y. However, if CAP 24 is faster than base 100 and has Earth Power, Plasmanta and Mollux cease to be checks, and therefore no longer belong on the check list (don't try to bring up Scarf Mollux, that's awful and you know it). There is no way for CAP 24 to pressure/threaten both Charizard-X and be checked by Charizard-Y without radically altering our checks list. I move that we remove Charizard-X from the list of Pokemon to pressure/threaten. I also move that we remove Cawmodore from this list, as there is no realistic in-battle scenario in which we would ever want to switch into Cawmodore.

 

[Escavalier Royale]

Once again, I seriously think we should take Mollux of the list as it is very hard to find a way to beat Heatran but lose to it. Plasmanta also raises quite a lot of question marks, as it is largely dependent of whether CAP24 outspeeds it or not, as it similarly gets wrecked by Earth Power. Excadrill in the Steel-types section should be revised in the same way, as it will likely die to a Sun-boosted HP Fire or potential Weather Ball and isn't that hard to outspeed. I'd keep Mega Scizor for its Bullet Punch though, although Magearna will similarly struggle to tank sun-boosted Fire attacks even with AV. Having Steel types check a Sun mon already seems pretty weird to me in the first place.

I'm also skeptical about Fidgit being listed as a check since it very rarely actually uses its Poison STAB (outside of low ladder Choice Band sets, which are barely worth mentioning)

I'm having a hard time finding it, so I'd like to ask for clarification on what we're talking about when we say "threaten"

I think to threaten just means that mon cannot switch into us and we can beat it if it is in a weakened state, but otherwise the mon has a relatively neutral matchup against us or even checks us.
Explains how Marowak-Alola is on our checks list although we also want to "threaten" it. It may check us, but we should not let it get in for free.

 

[david0895]

Mega Venusaur: Fire coverage hurts it in the sun, but outside of this it easily counter CAP24
Pyroak (Sun): after viewing some calcs i'm convinced that it can counter it without problems

 

[snake]

Let's talk about Magearna...

AV Magearna isn't a check under Sun, assuming Fire Blast and ~125 SpA. It acts like a soft-check, given that it doesn't switch into Fire Blast or similar Fire-type coverage (Weather Ball, Flamethrower):
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Bulu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna in Sun: 200-237 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

For Trace CAP24, AV Magearna is an ok check, assuming the same SpA.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Bulu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 154-182 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Bulu Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 172-204 (47.3 - 56.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Bulu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 102-122 (28 - 33.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

Again, Magearna should be able to tank CAP24's STAB moves just fine and be able to force it out otherwise.

Just as Pyroak is placed under different sections for different weathers, I think Magearna can be a check for Trace CAP24. The same should hold true if we go with Earth Power as well, assuming Sun gets Weather Ball.

 

[EpicUmbreon29]

I see others have talked about it briefly, but I would like to address the issue of Mega Venusaur, which I believe could be a perfectly viable hard check. I say hard check instead of counter because, although Mega Venusaur can be capable of being a counter, this only holds true within very thin parameters.

Let's start off just looking at how the popular purely theoretical ~125 SpA worst case scenario I see everyone throwing around holds up against the standard Smogon OU analysis Mega Venusaur:

252 SpA Life Orb CAP24 Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega in Sun: 159-187 (43.8 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, Mega Venusaur will certainly hold up, but only if it gets a free switch into CAP24, after which it would be able to OHKO with Sludge Bomb or stall out the sun while CAP24 takes Life Orb damage with its boosted Synthesis.
In order to be a solid counter while no hazards are up, Mega Venusaur requires full investment in its special bulk:

252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega in Sun: 146-174 (40.2 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Not to mention, according to CAP 1760 February 2018 usage statistics, this set is only the second most popular on Mega Venusaur, and accounting for only about 10% of all sets. Also, this doesn't even take into account potential boosts from potential access to Growth.
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Oh, and as for the idea of Pyroak being one of our counters, here's a rough calc based on the same worst-case scenario where CAP24 gets ~125 SpA and extremely good Fire coverage:

252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pyroak in Sun: 246-290 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In other words, I think Pyroak being a counter to us in Sun might not go over very well, but I mean hey, we do still have the rest of the project to determine stats and movepool, so entirely disqualifying Pyroak seems to be jumping the gun, so I would like to see Pyroak on the list of Pokemon we want to try to have counter us for now in Sun for the time being.
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Aside from that, I'm concerned by our apparent lack of true counters that aren't just the standard pink blob. For that reason, I would agree that we should aim to be countered by Mega Charizard Y, assuming Stealth Rock is not in play, checked otherwise.

And a closing thought:
I don't think that Fidgit should really be considered as a viable check to CAP24, seeing as it only runs Sludge Bomb about 40% of the time according to recent usage statistics. Even if that sounds like a lot, to be honest, I don't think Sludge Bomb is an especially good move on Fidgit in the first place. Consider that the only relevant Pokemon it can really punish is Tapu Bulu; sure, it can deal some heavy damage to other Fairy-type Pokemon like Tapu Lele and Mega Gardevoir, but those two can also OHKO Fidgit, and Fidgit generally has better things to do with its moveslots.

I think that about covers my concerns for the moment being.

 

[Drapionswing]

I've come up with a conclusive list for the counters discussion based off of the the discussion in this thread.

Pokemon we want to beat:

Sun:
Heatran, Crawdaunt, Latios, Mega Latios, Pajantom, Zygarde,

Sand:
Heatran, Landorus-T, Tapu Bulu, Tomohawk


Pokemon we want to pressure/threaten:
Mega Mawille, Cawmodore, Ash Greninja, Kartana, Marowak-Alola, Celesteela

Pokemon we want to check Cap24:
Fire-Types: Volcarona, Marowak-Alola, Pyroak(Sand), Blacephalon, Victini
Steel Types: Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Magearna(Sand)
Poison Types: Plasmanta, Mollux, Crucibelle, Mega Crucibelle, Toxapex, Mega Venusaur(Sun)
Priority Users: Kitsunoh, Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor, Syclant, Cawmodore
Other: Mega Alakazam, Hawlucha

Pokemon we want to counter Cap24:
Mega Venusaur(Sand)
Mega Charizard Y
Pyroak(Sun)
Chansey

And with that I'd like to finally put this thread to rest and move on with the process!