CAP 35 - Part 12 - Prevo # Discussion

[Dogfish44]

CAP 35 So Far

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Main Design:

How many pre-evolutions do you think Shox should have (None, One, or Two), and why?

This thread will be open for 24 hours, at which point we will open the poll for this stage. Please remember that usual rules against one-liners are still in effect for this thread!

 

[Scepticskep]

I'm definitely gonna go with One pre-evolution. Considering how large Shox is as shown off in the concept art, it doesn't seem very realistic to have this as a single stage. Wailord, Snorlax, and Cetitan come to mind. However, due to the design's relative simplicity I can't see there being any design range for two pre-evolutions.

 

[DrifblooomCF]

Im a big supporter of None, mainly because theres prescedent with basically all other cow pokemon to be single stage, not just that but i think Shox has right ammount of detail and size to act a single stage pokemon fairly well.

Im not opposed to One prevo either, there are a bunch of ways to explore a design for shox so a simple prevo would be perfectly doable

But i AM opposed to Two prevos, while i dont think ita impossible i feel like it will stretch artists to thin trying to "extend" the concept of what shox is and in turn we will have a bunch of subs which are basically the same in concept, which is to say the same logic behind making one prevo but stretched out into two

 

[MC Squared]

I support One as well. Shox Jr. would be cute

 

[Darquezze]

I'm in support of One. Two could work as well but I think one pre evo is perfect enough for this fuzzy ball cow. I am entirely against None however.

 

[MrDollSteak]

I think Shox has more than enough detail to support One pre-evolution. I think that comparisons to Snorlax, Zebstrika, Gogoat, Rapidash, Mantine and Toxtricity as examples are all apt, and demonstrate that there's plenty of potential, either with a normal pre-evolution or a Baby Pokemon style build for a relatively simple final stage design, at least in design elements, in the 480-540 stat range.

Two is probably a slightly harder sell. None has slightly more justification in terms of Tauros, Miltank and Bouffalant being conceptually similar single stages, but seems like a wasted opportunity overall.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

I think None makes the most sense here. Shox pretty much fits the mold made by other Normal-type bovine Pokemon such as Tauros and Bouffalant to a tee. I also think that our name here doesn't really tend itself to working with somethinf that has evolved, and that the design being super simple also plays pretty heavily into this as well.

 

[SunshineFuture]

I personally feel Shox makes the most sense to have one pre-evolution. This is because being a two-stage line would put Shox in line with the regional mammals seen in (afaik) every generation, from Rattata and Raticate to Lechonk and Oinkologne. While those are usually pure Normal instead of half Normal, Shox still fits in with these Pokemon imo. Dubwool in particular is very similar in body shape to Shox and, like Shox, is a very fluffy take on a common farm animal. Likewise, as MDS points out, our stats are generally within the general range of two-stage mammals like Gogoat and Zebstrika. I can see arguments for no prevos or even two, but again I prefer one prevo here.

 

[Ehmcee]

One>None>>>Two in my book

There's precedent for cow Pokemon being single stage, but I think this design in particular has a lot of room to be an evolution, would love to see what a pre-evo would look like :)

 

[breadstickslug]

One seems like the way to go, as its notable size even compared to other bovine Pokemon as well as its (subtler) frog origins lend towards having some less developed form. None would be fine as others have pointed out that said bovine mons are usually standalone, though that isn't necessarily inherently tied to the design of a cow. I do think having Two is unwarranted here, as there's not so many elements to go off of to make up two whole pre-evolutions, and the animal inspirations also don't really have more than one separate notable stage of development.

 

[Sunfished]

I think something important a lot of the None people are missing is that Shox is NOT just a cow. It not only shares physical traits with a frog, (as well as an ability that is frog-based), but its basis is also that of a Bullfrog as stated by its designer. If we're going to play the game of determining its evolution number using "basis", I'd argue that every frog Pokemon is part of an evolutionary line. It'd be a disservice to the designer to ignore that aspect of the design for this discussion.

Additionally, I find the argument that a design is "too simple" to warrant a prevo is a moot point to make when creativity is the main play here to make a prevo interesting. Kerfluffle is by far one of the most simplest cap designs we have and it not only got a prevo that was distinct, but one that is one of the most popular designs in the whole project. Shutting down the potential for a prevo for this reasoning kind of suggests that none of the artists are able to make one interesting. I'd understand if this design was something like Wigglytuff or Chansey where there's very little in its design conceptually to make a unique derivative out of, but Shox is not conceptually simple and there is a lot of potential to derive a prevo from one of its many design elements, such as its tesla coil horns or its frog concept.

I believe One or Two prevos is good for this design, and would help it showcase the frog aspects well through metamorphosis.

 

[Amamama]

Take this with a grain of salt, but I tried to design Shox in a way that it could reasonably have an evolutionary line similar to the gen4 Evos like Mamoswine, Electivire and Magmortar. I don’t know if I actually got there, but given the BST of the stat spread and the level of complexity I’m in favor of either 2 prevos to fit the comparison I made above or 1 evo in a similar vein to other „large“ mammal Pokemon like Hippowdon, Gogoat and Mudsdale.
While I understand the argument for no prevo based on other normal type bovine Pokémon, none of these actually come close to the stats this mon has and imo would make Shox stick out like a sore thumb between them.
Trying to argue there isn’t enough complexity in the design feels a bit backwards, as I think this should be something for the artists to figure out instead of deciding it here.
Lastly I think citing the short name as disqualifying is nonesense imo, as there’s plenty of precedent for short named, or single syllable evolutions.

 

[StarFalcon555]

Throwing full support behind One pre-evo here. In recent generations, there's been a bit of a trend of making two-stage ungulate/farm animal Pokemon (Skiddo line in Gen 6, Mudbray line in Gen 7, Wooloo line in Gen 8, and Lechonk line in Gen 9), and Shox reminds me a lot of these guys. I could maybeeeeeeeeeeeee see an argument for Two pre-evos, but I am absolutely against No pre-evos; it looks way too complex to be a single stager, there's plenty of design space for a pre-evo (or two), and the argument that Shox's name is "too short for a final stage Pokemon" is frankly one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. It just doesn't make any sense - GameFreak has never taken the length of a Pokemon's name into consideration when deciding how many pre-evos/evos it should have. They just take the design into consideration, and that's what we should be doing too.

 

[Unsee]

One. He is too big a big boy to be born a big boy.

 

[HealthGage]

Shox feels like they could have One Pre-Evolution, more is pushing it and less doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Mova]

I would prefer One prevo. A shalf would be very cute with Shox.

 

[sun_dew]

Personally, I would like to push very, very hard for Two pre-evolutions. 530+ BST on a normal type is pretty uncommon, and all non-legendary normal mons with that high of BST are three-stage () with the exception of Snorlax. I also think that Two prevos would be consistent with other early-game three-stage normal lines ().

This Pokémon is also very similar to mons like Mamoswine or Ampharos imo, further justifying being a three-stage line. The sheer roundness also plays a role, as the unevolved Bouffalant, Tauros, and Miltank are all much more realistically shaped, whereas Shox's shapes are much more akin to some of the three-stage gen 4 crossgen evolutions ().

ALSO! Taking into account Shox's froglike traits, there is plenty of room for varied prevo approaches, and the majority of frog Pokémon ARE three-stage () with only two counterexamples ()

 

[IronTemplar]

One. There really isn't a lot of room for more than one smaller version

 

[a fairy]

One makes the most sense to me, though I'm fine with other options. I came in here expecting to advocate for None and being unable to see Two as a possibility, but some good posts in this thread have shifted my stance somewhat!

 

[singaporygon]

I like Sun Dew's reasoning alot so I think two is the way to go.

 

[Samirsin]

Shox should definitely get at least one pre evolution, but my favorite option is two pre evolutions. For me it's a way to show that we don't have to follow exact patterns, as this always change, so while I understand arguments like early route mammal with only 2 stages, showcasing that we can have a 3 stage line. Teenage bovine anyone? Also, baby CAP merch needs more babies in order to profit more.

 

[TheFurretStar]

One. Honestly, two would make it feel like Pokémon that I call “dex fillers”