CAP Hyper Offense - Pokemon to Consider and Discussion in General

MQJinx · Jul 15, 2014

Hyper offense, a playstyle meant to use hazards, screens, or other support to set up so that the rest of your team beats down the opponent with intense offensive pressure that the foe cannot remove hazards and is quickly worn down. That doesn't mean that you can just stack offensive powerhouses expecting to win, you need to provide support for your sweepers, make sure your offensive mons have good synergy to cover threats, make sure your hazards stay up, and be sure to have a way to handle different playstyles. This thread is for you to provide effective sets for HO and also discuss its impact in the CAP metagame.

Here's a sample set to get started:

Aurumoth @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance / Tail Glow
- Bug Buzz
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam

Aurumoth has two SPA boosting moves, allowing it to choose which teams to threaten. Tail Glow is more effective against stall, while Quiver Dance takes care of more offensive teams. Illusion makes Aurumoth even deadlier, tricking opponents into using NVE moves against it. This set isn't limited to just these moves; Aurumoth can also use Hydro Pump/Surf, Thunderbolt/Thunder, Shadow Ball, Overheat, and Focus Blast to surprise opponents. And this is only one of the many sets that Aurumoth can run! Just make sure that mixdef Clefable and Colossoil are removed, as Clefable walls you for kingdom come and Colossoil can threaten an OHKO with Sucker Punch.

~BLOOM~ · Jul 15, 2014

I'd like to let it be known that Bulky and Fast Suicide Lead Froslass does wonders for HO, as you can run Choice Band/Specs users under 100 Speed no problem with Thunder Wave support, and Spike support helps wear down walls as they switch in and out on your hazards. Previously mentioned Band/Specs users under 100 speed include but is not limited to: Volkraken, Colossoil, Mollux, Aurumoth, Kyurem-B, Scizor, you get the idea.

Fast Lead (Keep in mind these are not standard EVs, these are my personal spreads).

Froslass@Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EV's: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IV's: 0 Atk
-Thunder Wave/Icy Wind
-Destiny Bond
-Spikes
-Shadow Ball/Taunt

Bulky Lead (This one is a custom spread I made for my Stall+Pinsir team).

Froslass@Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 Spd
Bold Nature
IV's: 0 Atk
-Thunder Wave
-Ice Beam/Taunt
-Destiny Bond
-Spikes

EDIT: I guess instead of double posting, since this thread isn't active very much ;_; I'll start discussing HO's effect on the current meta.
I guess HO is a great playstyle for good and average players alike for it's ability to quickly beat down walls and get the win in generally a small amount of turns. But, like you mentioned in the OP, you can't just slap Scizor/Kyurem-B/Special Powerhouse/Special Powerhouse/Hazards/Filler and call it a day, you have to make sure your team can actually beat stall, is balanced enough to not die to Chansey (Entire HO teams sometimes crumble against this and it's bigger blob sister, Blissey), and it can keep hazards up to add even more damage to walls.

Animus Majulous · Jul 15, 2014

Hampton, not to burst your bubble, but since about half the cap teams that exist run colossoil... it makes froslass pretty bad. Trust me, I have a monoghost cap team, and I use froslass on it, but all it does it mess with people. In rated battles, any 1630+ glicko player will find a way to kill the froslass, remove the spikes, and not die from d-bond.

~BLOOM~ · Jul 15, 2014

Animus Majulous, you are correct. A good player will find a way to get Froslass dead, but good players can find a way to utilize Froslass to the fullest as well, with support from teammates. Destiny Bond is a risky move, as recklessly using it can result in a 6-0 (Opponent sets up on the D-Bond, kills you next turn, proceeds to sweep), but Froslass usually helps HO more than hurts it. You definitely have a good point.

Reapehify · Jul 15, 2014

Destiny Bond is brilliant against similar minded Hyper Offensive teams as most people don't consider Destiny Bond something to think about when making their team, and any choice'd Pokemon or those lacking in passive moves are forced into committing suicide. Additionally, something like Aegislash running and Autotomize loves Destiny Bond as it's also usually carrying Weakness Policy and switching out isn't a thought. So you sweep as much as you can and Destiny Bond the threat that plans to take you down. Lastly, Gengar also has 110 base speed and better stats/typing, so use it over Froslass at all times. ._.

~BLOOM~ · Jul 15, 2014

Charizard6, first, Aegislash with Weakness Policy and Autotomize is very unusual and you won't be able to live good hits without significant bulk investment, which takes away from speed and power; Secondly, Froslass has 110 Base Speed as well; And lastly, Froslass is crippling opponents with Thunder Wave and using Spikes to stack hazards, two roles which Gengar cannot do. As a plus, Froslass has better bulk IIRC.

Reapehify · Jul 15, 2014

Autotomize+Weakness Policy only seems unusual to you because you haven't ran into it much; this is because its other sets are more popular and durable, not because it isn't as viable. And that's the idea -- you're not supposed to live hits, -- you're supposed to sweep mid-game and after an Autotomize boost surviving one super effective hit in Shield-mode. Destiny Bond adds that layer of complexity in dealing with potential Sucker Punch/Pursuit users or those which would be able to tank a hit and counter. Froslass on the other hand I noted had 110 speed ("Gengar also has 110 base speed and...") which is its major draw, but the status/hazard is combo it presents is comparable to a suicide lead which has been a bad idea at least since the beginning of 6th Gen..

Which is better at spreading status?
Frosslass or Cyclohm?
Which is better at spreading hazards?
Froslass or Forretress?
Which is better at Destiny Bond?
Froslass or Mega-Banette?

Obviously Froslass suffers from an identity crisis (and a Stealth Rock weakness) and that's why it is BL2.

Edit: PS: Your semi-colon use is inaccurate. ._.

~BLOOM~ · Jul 15, 2014

I see. (I'm terrible with semi-colons, actually lol). In all seriousness, A SR weakness is not even deterring for a suicide lead. HO is used for getting FAST hazards placed and keeping them there by sheer offensive pressure, while beating down the opponent's other team members. Froslass does this reliably against most of the OU/CAP meta except versus Rebound Colossoil (Correct me if there is any other common pokemon). You obviously know nothing much beats Froslass at using D-Bond, because you had to go to NU to find something (Mega-Nette isn't even good besides D-Bond and priority burns, which Sableye does better). Froslass cripples other mons for others to sweep, sets up fast hazards, then dies. Thats what a suicide lead does, sets hazards, supports team, and then dies. Regarding your Aegislash argument, Autotomize WP Aegislash isn't bad, because its unusual, it's not common. It catches people off-guard. Back to Froslass, Tiers do not decide viability. They decide USAGE. Have a good day. n_n

EDIT: I'd rather not clog the thread between me and you, so any more Froslass discussion would probably be put better in it's own thread, or a talk via PM. K Thanks.