CAP Updates: Malaconda Discussion (Complete)

[cbrevan]

Welcome to the Malaconda update thread! In this thread we'll be updating Malaconda to the current standards for Sun and Moon.

I'll start this thread off with a short overview of Malaconda for those unfamiliar with it. Malaconda was created during the B2W2 era of Gen 5 around the concept of Type Equalizer, which looked to both increase certain underused types while decreasing the usage of more popular types. As a result of the weather heavy nature of the latter half of Gen 5, Malaconda was created to help support and sustain Sun teams while having a positive matchup against some of the popular Water-types of the tier. Malaconda's most notable traits are it's great special bulk and a wide array of coverage moves, such as Rapid Spin and Glare, as well as access to the ever flexible Harvest that enables Sitrus Berry and Chesto+Rest recovery options. In actual play, Malaconda was found to be an effective spinner that could go toe to toe with the special attackers of the tier, but was balanced by it's susceptibility to U-turn users, primarily the ever common Scizor and Landorus-t.

In the current metagame, Malaconda is among the lesser seen CAP Pokemon, but is still a viable niche option for a Rapid Spinner and special pivot. It often runs a combination of an attacking option, such as Power Whip, and multiple utility moves, mainly Glare, Rapid Spin, U-turn, and Pursuit. Because it sees less usage than most of the other CAP Pokemon, it's often regarded as unexplored territory in regards to what it's most optimal set is.

As far as updates go, I'd like us to start with the competitive side of this update. For now, I'd like us to focus on whether or not Malaconda should receive an additional competitive ability. If so, we'll then determine which ability or abilities would be the best choice or choices and then poll them if needed. If we decide Malaconda will not receive an additional competitive ability, we'll go straight into our moves discussion and our evaluation of the last two generations of moves.

Here are some guiding questions to help spark discussion:

• Do you believe Malaconda needs an additional competitive ability?
• If so, why? What abilities would you like to see as that competitive ability?
• If not, why? How are Malaconda's present abilities sufficient?

 

[Mova]

The problem with Malaconda is that his offensive stats are too low by current standards. Stat increases are not being considered for the updates (even though Malaconda only has 500 BST, the lowest of all the CAPs iirc), so we may have to buff him via Abilities or moves.

Looking at his current Abilities, Harvest only works half the time outside of sun, while Infiltrator works only somewhat better in many situations otherwise. I believe Malaconda could use another competitive Ability if it wants to do anything remotely offensive in such a fast metagame. It has seven glaring weaknesses with the addition of Fairy in Kalos; it's especially 4x weak to Bug, which has been somewhat buffed in Alola with access to decent attacks and Pokémon like Buzzwole. Defiant or Moxie would give Malaconda a nice offensive buff if we go that route. (Better reasoning probably coming later?)

Never mind; Malaconda is way too slow to abuse Moxie. The snek doesn't need any new Abilites, so what about simply turning Infiltrator into the Hidden Ability, rather than adding a new one? The only useful thing I can think of are moves, and we're not discussing that yet.

 

[G-Luke]

Its not a Major Update, so such gamechanging avilities such as Moxie and Defiant would be out of the question. Besides, Moxie would not do much for Malaconda anyways, as it is much too slow to fully abuse the ability.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Gamechanging abilities, such as the formerly mentioned Defiant and Moxie, is not a great route to go. We should try and give it good new moves to utilize instead, as Harvest is actually a very good ability for Malaconda, as it significantly increases its lifespan in game. If we were going to give it a new ability, which I am totally for, we should try and give it something that doesn't overshadow Harvest, but adds another defensive option or aligns with its anti-Water type concept assesment.

 

[G-Luke]

I'm gonna say it: no offense to Harvesters, but Harvest is a rather mediorce ability in this current metagame (basically any meta after gen 5). So while we shouldnt try to slap on incredible abilities like Defiant, Magic Guard, Grassy Surge or anything, limiting ourselves to abilities that are on par or lower viability wise than Harvest is setting up ourselves for trouble.


Some neat abilities for the Snake include:

Natural Cure: I saw this ability gain discussion in the showdown chat and I think it would fit quite nicely.

Intimidate: Yes. I support Intimidate Malaconda. It generally forces out switches, generate momentum and helps with its horrid defence stat. Plus snakes are very intimidating.

Shed Skin: While not as good as the other abilities (poor man's Natural Cure if you are not a set up sweeper if you ask me), it comes with INCREDIBLE flavour as it is on a snake pokemon. I say add Shed Skin if we are gonna eventually pursue the inevitable Coil + Power Trip.

Sap Sipper: This ability can prove useful, as receiving an attack boost from switching into Leech Seed, Spore or a random Bloom Doom without suffering consequences is neato!

Also, can we slate Rattled just for the fun of it?

 

[snake]

So Malaconda is in an interesting place right now, and it's because it really lacks a niche in the metagame for us to look at. Additionally, the archetype it was originally made for is now basically dead (sun teams aren't all that great rn). Therefore, perhaps we could look at a different path for Malaconda.

Hydration/Rain Dish and Sand Rush/Sand Veil retains the weather abusing concept but allows Malaconda to have a niche on more viable weather teams. Hydration would have to be my favorite out of all of these, as a Rest / Rapid Spin set would be really nice for Rain teams.
Shoot, Synth nerf in rain/sand.

EDIT: Deleted Strong Jaw paragraph somehow :( Potential Thunder Fang (it learns Wild Charge) + Crunch could help it, and on the subject of fang moves Ice Fang was allowed in movepools but got edged out in the last movepool poll. It boosts moves that Mala doesn't normally use so you become strapped for moveslots. Just something to think about.

Sap Sipper (makes Malaconda an even better Serperior counter!) and Natural Cure are pretty cool though.

 

[Deck Knight]

As far as addressing some of Malaconda's issues, I think a lot of it comes down to Moves more than Ability. Malaconda's movepool was scaled back pretty far because of permaweather Harvest, which no longer applies. Sitrus Harvest is still fairly effective at keeping Malaconda alive, and truthfully if we wanted to give Malaconda a reason to set up Sun, let's just say making it a more physical-coverage oriented Gourgeist would not be without justification.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

I disagree with Deck Knight. I don't think there's a lot of moves that we could add the would competitively buff Malaconda since it already has the best moves for its STAB (Power Whip, Knock Off), already has reliable recovery (harvest shenanigans or synth, but mostly the former), and already has utility (rapid spin, etc). Perhaps Malaconda's coverage movepool could be increased but that's about all it is lacking in and even increasing that really wouldn't give it oomph imo.

I think if we actually want to give Malaconda a notable buff, the ability stage is the best space to do it.

Really, I think something like Regenerator is what would give Malaconda a niche again (not saying it would be a huge niche but bigger than its current one maybe; I'm imagining it as a slow uturner with a set something like Power Whip, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, U-turn...potentially allowing it to run AV or LO, becoming a much weaker but self-healing gen6 Colossoil). Regenerator, like Harvest, provides healing opportunities, but unlike Harvest it is reliable regardless of the current weather. Regenerator Malaconda would still have many of the crippling flaws it currently has, namely that 4x weakness to bug and unimpressive physical defense, but it would allow its slow speed to be more of an asset as there is value in a slow turner; Malaconda would take a hit, pivot out, and simultaneously heal itself a bit in the process.

Of course, there's the risk of throwing a great ability like Regenerator around and drastically increasing something much further than expected. But at this time, this is one of the few abilities that I think of that will have a noteworthy impact. The aforementioned Strong Jaw has some possibilities as well and I think it could potentially work albeit it would prioritize power over utility/recovery.

Regarding Malaconda's original concept of type equalizer... well, I think that was very reliant on an older metagame and I'm not sure we it can really be followed through anymore since a lot of things have changed since then. As such, I think updating Malaconda based on its "role" is more appropriate. And to me, its role has been bulky utility mon and I think Regenerator allows this role to be filled again.

 

[ShunosaurusLii]

A very odd ability that you wouldn't consider at first glance would be Cursed Body. Malaconda does have the apple at the tip of its tail, reminiscent of the serpent in Genesis. Having a forbidden fruit growing from your tail would definitely help for the argument for Cursed Body.

Cursed Body would not be a very broken ability, because although it can be annoying, it's a 30% chance to disable a move, and it can be cured by switching.

 

[Wenderz]

Harvest is a good ability to me, since it gives a free way to heal without when doing something else on the same turn (if you're using Figy/Sitrus berries) or the best way to heal off in the game (if you're using Rest + Chesto/Lum Berry), despite the fact that Malaconda has access to many form of recovery, he isn't played that much, and I think that's mainly because of his bad typing, very few Special Sweeper like Latios, Krilowatt or Serperior remain walled by him. Therefore, I don't think that giving him other way to recover himself like Regenerator, Sap Sipper or Natural Cure (the last one seems clearly inferior to harvest to me) would improve his walling capabilities very much.

Of course, the ability's choice depends if we want to make Malconda a dedicated Special Wall/Pivot , which is my favorite way as Malaconda has the stat and the movepool to fulfill this task, an Offensive Support/Pivot or even a Wallbreaker, I think that we should talk about this as we did for Revenankh which is quite simialar when it comes to stats (slow, solid on the SpD, has an exploitable Attack...). Right now, Malconda is a pivot which can support his team by removing hazard and to a lesser extent statues and annoy the opponent with things like Knock Off, Glare and U-Turn.

In my case, I support defensive abilities because some of them are almost enough to balance his typing, the best one in this regard is probably Filter, while it's an easy pick without too much thoughts behind, it seems balanced enough since it doesn't make you ignore Malaconda's weaknesses, as several Special Wallbreakers like Zard-Y, Tomohawk, Plasmanta, Kerfluffle, Tapu Lele, Magearna, Hoopa U and Volkraken are still able to straight or almost 2HKO Malaconda with the right item (nonetheless, keep in mind that Knock off can help you greatly against most of these Mon), you cannot take reliably "weak" U-turns from the like of Koko or Ash-Ninja and you remain very susceptible on physical side. Filter allows you to deal more easily against most of the aforementionned Pokemon if they don't carry Lo or Specs and other threats like Stratagem. Thick Fat and Heatproof are some good options too. While it seems to outclass Harvest, keep in mind that you must give up a slot for Synthesis which has only 8 PP and becomes unreliable under Sand, Rain and Hail, even though having Leftovers is helpful.

If we want to keep Malaconda as a pivot instead of making it a "true" wall, which I like too, then Regenerator and Intimidate looks good enough and not too overpowered, despite the fact that they don't really solve the problem of the number of threat you can check/counter (even with Intimidate, I don't see mlany physicall threat really worried about Malaconda, outside of non U-turn Colossoil and Necturna without SE coverage Sketch move) since they don't balance the typing, which leads me to a strange choice: Color Change. This ability is often considered as "bad" on Kecleon since a lot of people think that it can be easy to take advantage of, which might not be that true, especially in the case of Malaconda: for instance, if you switch on Thunderbolt from Koko, you don't have to worry about his U-turn anymore, and Malaconda becomes extremely sturdy on the special side since there are almost no Ground Type which hit on the special side, and these can be annoyed by Glare, while a burned Colossoil won't like switching on Power Whip. There are a large amount of Special Sweeper/Wallbreaker which can't really take advantage of Color Change if you switch on the right Move like Mollux, Plasmanta, Nihilego, Kerfluffle, Ash-Greninja and the majority of Choice based Mon. However, you may have no choice but to switch on a SE move in some case and even with a better typing, you might not be able to take a neutral hit after being badly damaged, Malaconda Special bulk isn't always enough, and again the lost of Harvest can be annoying, and the loss of your STABs can be disturbing as well.

Finally, Malaconda can fulfill the role of an offensive Mon and potentially carry some support moves like Rapid Spin or Aromatherapy, as mentionned before, Strong Jaw Malaconda could become fearsome with some move addition, I didn't think too much about these abilities yet to have a strong opinion on it right now.

I agree with some people that the given ability should not completely outclass Harvest, this one could work with some move addition like Natural Gift or Leech Seed (even though I think that you won't like the second one). It's a minor update and I might give some ability which could be too powerful, but I don't that any of them will completely change our current ways to play Malaconda.

 

[reachzero]

Malaconda is in a weird position. As things stand now, it will probably be the single worst CAP post-update if it doesn't receive any significant changes. Malaconda is basically usable now: it has pretty good typing (seriously! It should be able to switch into Colossoil and Cyclohm and Krilowatt and Latios and Zygarde...), and when you max out Defense (as in, max HP max Def) it actually survives even unexpected stuff like non-STAB U-turn from physical attackers. The big issue to me is that it's outclassed pretty badly by Colossoil: it can't break anything that Colossoil can't, has the same counters, does way less damage, and is much slower. It's best niches are Spin and Glare, and against a team with, say, Pyroak or Tomohawk, it will probably do nothing, so one can argue that Toxic is better than Glare for it, and at that point why are you using Malaconda?

Harvest is great for survivability, it's true, but it means that Malaconda can never switch into Knock Off, one of the things you'd really want it to do, typing wise. Malaconda's defensive stats are too low for it to invest in Attack, and its uninvested Attack is dreadful. Harvest makes Malaconda extremely to kill without Bug attacks, I know. But it also leaves Malaconda extremely passive, and forces it into roles which other CAPs honestly do better.

I feel that ability is a good place to modify Malaconda, and honestly, I think a radical proposal is appropriate. I think Drought (!) would be an appropriate ability for Malaconda. It was built to "fix" Sun teams, a team type that has died for lack of a setter even as good as Pelipper (a low standard). Drought would let Malaconda use Synthesis effectively, so it would still have recovery, and it would have a real role. It's still weak to Fire and especially to U-turn, and it shares weaknesses with Venusaur, so it'd be pretty difficult for it to be broken. The only obvious issue I see is that Drought is powerful though to be an optics issue.

I think other solutions for Malaconda's issues are probably findable, but I wanted to bring up Drought because it is so thematically appropriate and because it so definitively gives Malaconda a true niche.

 

[Kyubics]

I'm in strong agreement with HeaL here in that Malaconda already has the tools in its movepool to do very well, and I would even go so far as to say it has serious 4MSS. Even now, it is a tough balance between strong STABs (ie Power Whip, Knock Off and Sucker Punch) and useful support moves (ie Glare, Rapid Spin, Heal Bell and U-Turn). For that reason, I think that giving Malaconda another competitive ability will improve it the most, upholding Continuity and Acclimation whilst also being as conservative as possible.
I think that the ability we choose to give Malaconda should indisputably be one that improves its current metagame role: a specially-defensive utility Pokemon. It could also be argued that Malaconda's role can be further refined to one of a bulky Rapid Spinner, as access to the move is one of its most defining characteristics. However, Malaconda is currently held back by a weakness to a myriad of common types, STABs which are walled by multiple top-tier Pokemon, poor physical defence for a bulky Pokemon and a subsequent weakness to the very common U-Turn. Trying to alleviate one or more of these issues should be, in my opinion, the goal when giving a new ability to Malaconda.

Of the abilities suggested so far, I have to say that I definitely support Intimidate the most. It goes a long way to improve Malaconda's lacking physical bulk and lets it stand up to weaker U-Turns from the likes of defensive Landorus-T and Tapu Koko much better. It also gives Malaconda more opportunities to come in and Rapid Spin on common physical hazard setters as well as better deal with physical attackers that its typing suggests it should check - for example, currently there is a high opportunity cost when running Malaconda over other Grass-types that can check Ground-types like Garchomp and Zygarde much more proficiently. Intimidate also give Malaconda a niche over other Rapid Spinners that perhaps have a more useful defensive typing.

One ability that I am not a huge fan of is Regenerator. I don't think that recovery is something that Malaconda ever has, or ever will, struggle with and it feels like people are just throwing a generically good ability at the problem and hoping that it will be solved. On the other hand, the previously mentioned Thick Fat I feel is a more relevant addition because it removes Malaconda's weakness to two common types in Ice and Fire, though the list of Pokemon it has the ability to check is not expanded much more than offensive Heatran, Volkraken and Kyurem-B lacking Outrage.

Drought was posted just as I was wrapping up my post, but my first impressions are not the best. I struggle to see how it benefits Malaconda outside of improved Synthesis recovery, and in fact worsens its weakness to Fire-type attacks. In my opinion, we should drop the connection to Malaconda's original concept entirely - it hasn't been relevant for a whole generation and I see no reason to re-establish it now. In other words, I think that this should be an update in terms of viability, not concept, which I believe Drought completely fails to achieve without drastically modifying Malaconda's current metagme role.

As for other abilities, I believe that another feasible option is Rough Skin as it discourages opposing Pokemon from spamming weaker U-Turns which, with some defence investment, Malaconda can recover off with Synthesis. It also prevent neutral physical attacks such as Garchomp's Outrage and Excadrill's Iron Head from wearing it down, although there aren't many viable physical attackers that can't hit Malaconda super-effectively.
Less potent abilities include Bulletproof and Poison Touch, the former granting Malaconda immunity to the super-effective Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast and Aura Sphere while the latter giving it the ability to potentially chip away at Pokemon like Landorus-T and Tomohawk that like to switch into both Rapid Spin and Malaconda's STABs. Despite this, I am unsure whether these abilities are enough for Malaconda to overcome the serious problems it currently faces.

Returning to more powerful abilities, Magic Guard greatly improves Malaconda's capacity as a Rapid Spinner as the ability grants it an immunity to damaging hazards as well as residual damage from Rocky Helmet used to try and chip away at it as it spins. Is this going too far? I don't know, but it also worries me that it does not solve any of Malaconda's specific issues.

 

[jas61292]

Malaconda is in a weird position. As things stand now, it will probably be the single worst CAP post-update if it doesn't receive any significant changes. Malaconda is basically usable now: it has pretty good typing (seriously! It should be able to switch into Colossoil and Cyclohm and Krilowatt and Latios and Zygarde...), and when you max out Defense (as in, max HP max Def) it actually survives even unexpected stuff like non-STAB U-turn from physical attackers. The big issue to me is that it's outclassed pretty badly by Colossoil: it can't break anything that Colossoil can't, has the same counters, does way less damage, and is much slower. It's best niches are Spin and Glare, and against a team with, say, Pyroak or Tomohawk, it will probably do nothing, so one can argue that Toxic is better than Glare for it, and at that point why are you using Malaconda?

First off, I want to say that I think reachzero's first paragraph does a good job summing up Malaconda's place in the current meta. It is not terrible. It is not unusable. It is just niche, and has issues with certain Pokemon that make it have major problems with certain matchups, even if playing to its niche. It can certainly fit on a team, and its not going to be awful. But it is just lacking compared to a lot of alternatives.

That being said, my biggest problem when thinking about Malaconda is that I really have no idea how to best improve it. It's got some really solid parts, but its whole is just not up to snuff in the metagame. My initial thoughts definitely mirror Deck Knights, in that I think Harvest is still a very solid ability and doesn't really need an upgrade, and that the slight downgrade to it with the loss of perma-sun simply means we can afford to be a bit more free with movepool options. That said, I'm definitely willing to consider alternative approaches with ability if it seems like a good way to help Malaconda. But I'm simply not sure that will be the case.

Some suggested abilities I am highly against, chief among them being Regenerator. I do think that Kyubics basically summed up my feelings on this ability already though:

One ability that I am not a huge fan of is Regenerator. I don't think that recovery is something that Malaconda ever has, or ever will, struggle with and it feels like people are just throwing a generically good ability at the problem and hoping that it will be solved.

Regenrator is a great ability.... but it really is not helping Malaconda. Malaconda has a fantastic ability for recovering health, alongside options for reliable recovery. Keeping its health up is not really an issue for it. I guess Regenerator would let it do so with a different item, but I don't really see that as addressing any issue Malaconda has. All it is really doing is encouraging specific kinds of sets (ones with U-Turn), when I don't really think those sets will really be all that much better than they are currently.

If we are going to give Malaconda a new ability, I think it either has to provide new utility Malaconda doesn't currently have, support its team, or boost its power. Intimidate is one that fits into the former category, as it would allow it to switch into a number of physical threats that it couldn't before letting it function in more of mixed defensive way. I am not entirely convinced this would help it so much, as its biggest physical weakness if U-Turn whose users are typically happy to switch in on Mala, and Mala is not going to be switching into. But, that being said I do think it addresses something that could potentially help boost Malaconda's standing in the Metagame. I just don't know by how much.

Drought, which was suggested by reachzero, is more of a supportive ability. Yes, it helps with recovery via Synthesis, but as I already said above, Mala doesn't struggle with recovery. But, unlike Regenerator, this would actively improve its role in the metagame by allowing it to support other Pokemon. It may not be the next Mega Charizard-Y, but it could better support full sun teams, as it can hold Heat Rock. It also has reliable recovery and good utility moves, making it a huge step up from either Ninetales or Torkoal. At the same time, as reach said, doubling up on grass types with Venu is definitely not ideal, making this unlikely to be an overbearing ability for it. I'm not sure this is how I would like to go about trying to solve Malaconda's issues, but I do think it would certainly be an improvement for it.

As for the last idea, a power boost, the only ability I have seen brought up so far in that respect is Strong Jaw. While I very fitting move, it really doesn't currently have the movepool for it, having only Crunch. That being said, if we decided to increase its offensive options, this could actually be a very solid ability. Strong Jaw's 50% boost to Crunch, alongside potential Elemental Fangs would go a long way narrow the power gap between Malaconda and others such as Colossoil. However, it would not really help a number of its other great moves, such as Power Whip, Knock Off, or U-Turn. As a potential alternative here, I think Adaptability might be worth a thought. It cannot help with coverage, but it is a huge boost to the power of its main damaging options, and makes switching into it much harder, without being too overwhelming. At the same time, it does not really require any changes to its offensive movepool to make the most of the boosts.

In the end, I'm really not sure whether a new ability is even the right way to go for Malaconda, but I do think there are some potentially good options out there. I'm just not sure what is the best approach.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

I suppose when I first brought up Regenerator for Malaconda, I was thinking of how Pyroak plays. A week or so ago in the PS chat, I talked with snake about how Pyroak is more of a defensive pivot than a stationary wall. Pyroak, despite all of its bulk and recovery, comes in to take a hit but is easily forced out a few turns later. Or he sets up Rocks and is forced out, etc. I think we're in a meta where just staying in and recovery-stalling is not something as doable as it was before.

A number of people in this thread have said something along the lines that Malaconda has never had any trouble with recovery. I wholeheartedly disagree and I think Malaconda has even less tools to have staying power to recover itself than Pyroak does. To be a successful self-recovering mon, Malaconda would have to on average restore more than it is dealt. And this... sadly does not happen. Yeah, sure, you can say Sitrus activates and all that fun stuff and maybe there's the rare turn where you get double Sitruses activating. But there will also be turns where it doesn't activate. It's extremely unreliable and on average only nets that 25% recovery, which realistically doesn't make up for the damage it takes. Heck, it could be recovering 50% each turn and even that might not be enough since its typing and poorish defense stat let it get hammered on the physical side. Pyroak, who I already have said lacks a lot of staying power, at least has the benefit of having good stats in both defense and special defense. Chansey has much more passable defense (compared to conda), too, when eviolite is considered. The other defensive pivots that might lack the raw defenses on both sides that Pyroak or Chansey possess are mons like Tangrowth, Amoongus, and Big Luvdisc and the get around stat failings with Regenerator (and note how Regenerator simply makes them viable and doesn't bust them to OP levels... and Malaconda would at least have enough differences to still carve a niche out between these other Rengerators).

The main point is that Harvest is an ability that grants recovery only to a mon with the power to actually stay in. Malaconda does not have that power in the first place. I think Conda has the power to switch in, but not to stay in :/

I think its typing and its stats make it a great special defensive pivot but these qualities do not let it stay in and successfully heal itself. As mentioned above, Harvest is unreliable without Sun. Next, Malaconda's harvest sets lack spammability in the modern meta that has so many things that can just hit it for strong damage. Many of the things that force Pyroak out, such as Crucibelle (mega and base), force Malaconda out as well but sadly Malaconda is forced out even more due to its increased weaknesses. Pyroak is in part such a great mon because of its ability to take retardedly strong Fairy moves such as Magearna's Fleur Cannon and its Z Move Equivalent. Pyroak might be forced out out a lot, but at least it has enough resistances to actually switch in and use the next turn to heal itself. Malaconda simply has less switch in opportunities and as a result has less healing opportunities.

As such I think we need to either recognize that Malaconda is forced out a lot more than the other bulky grass pivots by giving something that compensates it for switching out (natural cure or regenerator, and I think regen is the more effective of the two) or we need to give it something that allows it to switch in more. For the latter, there's really not that many abilities that could work. Intimidate is an option. But I'm not sure how effective it really would be, especially in a meta of physical attacking powerhouses with their Z-moves... or just, you know, u-turners. In theory it seems plausible, but I've been browsing through some calcs here and there and haven't seen anything particularly convincing.

Malaconda has a lot of problems with it. Even with perma sun magically back in the picture, I don't think Malaconda is fixed at all (I even briefly took part in the Malaconda playtest and out of every playtest I've been a part it, Malaconda performed the worst, with the exception of maybe Plasmanta... the only consistently good things out of conda I got was a mon that could somewhat handle rain in the event that ninetails was KOed and for conda's ability to, well, u-turn other condas).

Really, one of the biggest problems with Malaconda is its typing... as a result I would totally be thrilled with the above suggestion of Color Change, but sadly this ability is banned by CAP. I think Drought might have some potential insofar as it would allow Malaconda to support its teammates, but I feel the reason it is being suggested is to make it return to being a mon that is about Sun... And I think Malaconda was more about anti-rain than about Sun in the first place. But, well, now we have a Rain Setter with U-turn that outspeeds Conda and does 40ish percent of damage to it for free.

Honestly, like jas, I'm not sure how to actually go about updating Malaconda (and as a result I admit my post is a bit rambling). It's a weird mon. In many ways it is like Arghonaut, especially at the conceptual level (decentralizer and equalizer are almost synonymous in practice) and in regards to how after the specific meta they were designed for changed they both ended up as kinda unremarkable mons.

I'd be completely and totally content if Malaconda got nothing useful from its update, even if we tried. I think it's just one of those mons nowadays... And I was never one who just wanted to go around buffing the viability of mons for the sake of buffing. But for whatever reason the community said they wanted at least some sort of competitive update for Malaconda, and I just think Regenerator has the best chance of providing this because I don't Malaconda as a mon with the staying power to abuse harvest and Regenerator lets it not worry about needing staying power in order to heal a bit. I don't buy the argument that conda never had a problem with recovery and I think it has :/ I probably don't utterly hate Intimidate or Drought but the former I see as having less of a noteworthy impact as Regenerator and the later I feel still doesn't let Malaconda compete with opposing weather and/or field effect setters.

I apologize for jumping around a bit in this post and not being very clear throughout... but well, Malaconda isn't all the clear of a mon.

 

[SunshineFuture]

I suppose when I first brought up Regenerator for Malaconda, I was thinking of how Pyroak plays. A week or so ago in the PS chat, I talked with snake about how Pyroak is more of a defensive pivot than a stationary wall. Pyroak, despite all of its bulk and recovery, comes in to take a hit but is easily forced out a few turns later. Or he sets up Rocks and is forced out, etc. I think we're in a meta where just staying in and recovery-stalling is not something as doable as it was before.

A number of people in this thread have said something along the lines that Malaconda has never had any trouble with recovery. I wholeheartedly disagree and I think Malaconda has even less tools to have staying power to recover itself than Pyroak does. To be a successful self-recovering mon, Malaconda would have to on average restore more than it is dealt. And this... sadly does not happen. Yeah, sure, you can say Sitrus activates and all that fun stuff and maybe there's the rare turn where you get double Sitruses activating. But there will also be turns where it doesn't activate. It's extremely unreliable and on average only nets that 25% recovery, which realistically doesn't make up for the damage it takes. Heck, it could be recovering 50% each turn and even that might not be enough since its typing and poorish defense stat let it get hammered on the physical side. Pyroak, who I already have said lacks a lot of staying power, at least has the benefit of having good stats in both defense and special defense. Chansey has much more passable defense (compared to conda), too, when eviolite is considered. The other defensive pivots that might lack the raw defenses on both sides that Pyroak or Chansey possess are mons like Tangrowth, Amoongus, and Big Luvdisc and the get around stat failings with Regenerator (and note how Regenerator simply makes them viable and doesn't bust them to OP levels... and Malaconda would at least have enough differences to still carve a niche out between these other Rengerators).

The main point is that Harvest is an ability that grants recovery only to a mon with the power to actually stay in. Malaconda does not have that power in the first place. I think Conda has the power to switch in, but not to stay in :/

I think its typing and its stats make it a great special defensive pivot but these qualities do not let it stay in and successfully heal itself. As mentioned above, Harvest is unreliable without Sun. Next, Malaconda's harvest sets lack spammability in the modern meta that has so many things that can just hit it for strong damage. Many of the things that force Pyroak out, such as Crucibelle (mega and base), force Malaconda out as well but sadly Malaconda is forced out even more due to its increased weaknesses. Pyroak is in part such a great mon because of its ability to take retardedly strong Fairy moves such as Magearna's Fleur Cannon and its Z Move Equivalent. Pyroak might be forced out out a lot, but at least it has enough resistances to actually switch in and use the next turn to heal itself. Malaconda simply has less switch in opportunities and as a result has less healing opportunities.

As such I think we need to either recognize that Malaconda is forced out a lot more than the other bulky grass pivots by giving something that compensates it for switching out (natural cure or regenerator, and I think regen is the more effective of the two) or we need to give it something that allows it to switch in more. For the latter, there's really not that many abilities that could work. Intimidate is an option. But I'm not sure how effective it really would be, especially in a meta of physical attacking powerhouses with their Z-moves... or just, you know, u-turners. In theory it seems plausible, but I've been browsing through some calcs here and there and haven't seen anything particularly convincing.

Malaconda has a lot of problems with it. Even with perma sun magically back in the picture, I don't think Malaconda is fixed at all (I even briefly took part in the Malaconda playtest and out of every playtest I've been a part it, Malaconda performed the worst, with the exception of maybe Plasmanta... the only consistently good things out of conda I got was a mon that could somewhat handle rain in the event that ninetails was KOed and for conda's ability to, well, u-turn other condas).

Really, one of the biggest problems with Malaconda is its typing... as a result I would totally be thrilled with the above suggestion of Color Change, but sadly this ability is banned by CAP. I think Drought might have some potential insofar as it would allow Malaconda to support its teammates, but I feel the reason it is being suggested is to make it return to being a mon that is about Sun... And I think Malaconda was more about anti-rain than about Sun in the first place. But, well, now we have a Rain Setter with U-turn that outspeeds Conda and does 40ish percent of damage to it for free.

Honestly, like jas, I'm not sure how to actually go about updating Malaconda (and as a result I admit my post is a bit rambling). It's a weird mon. In many ways it is like Arghonaut, especially at the conceptual level (decentralizer and equalizer are almost synonymous in practice) and in regards to how after the specific meta they were designed for changed they both ended up as kinda unremarkable mons.

I'd be completely and totally content if Malaconda got nothing useful from its update, even if we tried. I think it's just one of those mons nowadays... And I was never one who just wanted to go around buffing the viability of mons for the sake of buffing. But for whatever reason the community said they wanted at least some sort of competitive update for Malaconda, and I just think Regenerator has the best chance of providing this because I don't Malaconda as a mon with the staying power to abuse harvest and Regenerator lets it not worry about needing staying power in order to heal a bit. I don't buy the argument that conda never had a problem with recovery and I think it has :/ I probably don't utterly hate Intimidate or Drought but the former I see as having less of a noteworthy impact as Regenerator and the later I feel still doesn't let Malaconda compete with opposing weather and/or field effect setters.

I apologize for jumping around a bit in this post and not being very clear throughout... but well, Malaconda isn't all the clear of a mon.

I honestly think that we need to at least do some sort of poll or something choosing between a defensive, offensive, or just a flavor ability. If we are going to go anywhere, we need to choose one of those choices. I also have a new ability to suggest: Gluttony

Gluttony is an interesting ability. It could allow for Figy sets. I can see some set like this:

Malaconda @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 HP
Careful / Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off / Crunch / Sucker Punch
- U-Turn
- Rapid Spin

The EV investments make sure that you have max attack while having an even amount of HP. This set is inferior to Harvest while in the sun, but it gives it a niche outside of it. It would buff Malaconda without making it overwhelming.

Other abilities I like are Regenerator, Intimidate, Adaptability, and Drought.

 

[RedSceptile.]

While I know that stat changes were forbidden I strongly believe it is something that should be considered. For example in Gen 6 29 Pokemom received a minimal statboost to a stat (10) points and the changes definitely helped (for example Clefable getting a 10 point buff to SpAtk going from 85 base to 95) or Scolipede going from 90 to 100base attack. Gen 7 took it even further with less Pokemon 26 in this instance but even more noticeable buffs (100 base attack Dugtrio, Mantine getting a base HP buff from 65 to 85 as well as Roost which clearly changed its viability)Cryogonal getting 30(!) extra points total 10 to takw HP from 70 to 80 and 20 to take Def from 30 to 50.

Now I am not suggesting some ridiculous buff but the trend here seems to indicate GameFreak trying to adjust Pokemon from generation to generation (2 generations in a row isn't record setting but it should not be ignored) as so, I would like to propose a buff in the 10-20 range and unless the community deems it an extreme case like Cryogonal then possibly the 30 range. I believe that a justifiable buff in that 10-20 range to one stat or 2 stats can ease the need to go seeminly overboard with an ability addition. Outside of a few additions to Malaconda's movepool not much can be done even on the ability side to help it have gains with that defensive typing being what it is with the way how power creep has begun to be pushed to its absolute limits. Even something as modest as a 10 point biff in Def and coupled with say Thick Fat or Regenerator increases Malaconda's survivability exponentially when you take into account all the metagame threats it would have to pivot around. Malaconda already has a decent support/utility movepool and oversaturating it in my opinion would be a gross attempt at fixing a broken concept. This is why I would like to vouch for a slight yet not drastic statistical adjustment.

 

[Martin890]

Alright, lenghty post incoming.

This thing is quite the enigma for me, since I just can't think of any perfect way of increasing its viablity or just make better in general. It has all it needs to be a good utility mon, it has acces to realiable recovery, its defenses are actually good minus the physical one, but the HP somewhat makes up for it, yet it falls flat on its face with what it's trying to do. These are more or less my suspicions, I wasn't here when Perma Weather was a thing so I can't say how good or how bad Malac was during that time, but there are probably a few reasons why Malaconda just doesn't work anymore:

1. It was made for a mediocre weather - when it comes to weather, the most common ones (and for good reasons) are Rain and Sand. This is mostly due to the sheer diversity they present, how there are Steel and Ground mons that become stronger or faster in the sand or how Rock mons can take hits better despite there own type not being so great defensively, even in the Rain you have mons that take full advantage of the effect, loosening there Fire weakness, having a perfect accuracy Thunder and Hurricane and just great team synergy all around. Sun is not really in the same category or at least, not anymore. Outside of Fire types that set up the sun or just Fire types in general, the only mons that have abilities that can take advantage of said weather are Grass mon.......and we all know how amazing the Grass typing is, right ? Sure you have Mega Houndoom and Regular Zard with Solar Power, but every other mon that has a weather boosted ability is a Grass mon, a type that's WEAK to the one that's powered up by the weather. Yes you have Chlorophyll so you can boost you low Speed, but then you ask yourself, what do I hit my opponent with ? Unless you're a insanely hard hitter like Bulu, with your own way of boosting your STAB, then that Energy Ball or Solar Beam won't even leave much of an impact, especially if your opponent resists Grass moves. And Grass also suffers from terrible coverage, the most ammount of coverage are given to physical attackers while special ones are left with stuff like HP. And what type of move is Solar Beam ? Oh yeah a special move that requires the sun to work, a move that only mons with barely any coverage can properly use. I don't want to talk about this any further cause otherwise I would end up writing a novel and there is still more to talk so I'm just gonna put my main points out: Sun is just a mediocre weather that only became apparent after its nerf in 6th gen and its glearing flaws started to show up (or they were already there and evryone already knew about them, but maybe became better in Gen 5's meta, idk), the type that's supposed to work with the weather simply doesn't because of just how weak of a type it is and really, the only type that takes real advantage of the Sun is Fire, similarly to Ice and Hail. And Malac, while it might have been a good team mate for sun teams, that was then, now with infinite weathe gone, it can't do it's intended job anymore or just as good as it used to.

2. Its typing - Grass is a type that is really not that great offensively, but can shine as a defensive one due to its unique set of resistances in Ground, Electric and Water. Problem is you have to know wich typing it can work with, Grass/Steel is a good example of that. Grass/Dark is not. There's a reason why the only two Grass/Dark mons we've ever gotten, Shiftry and Cacturne, are offensively oriented. Yes Cacturne is slow, but its overall stats clearly show that it's meant to be a attacker. Same with Shiftry. In fact, most Dark type are inclined towards offense since that's pretty much what the typing itself is made for, to be a offensive one. The only reason why defensive Dark mons like Alolan Muk work is because of there typing being pared with a already good defensive one (like Steel or Poison, ok Poison is rather mediocre, but you still get my idea). Grass is a type that needs a defensive type to work, unless you already have good stats like Tangrowth then you can work even as a mono. Dark is not one of those. And the laundry list of weaknesses that come with this combo aren't doing a favor either. Sure T-tar has its own multitude of weaknesses, but it's high stats and ability work together to compensate alongside a diverse enough movepool. Malac sadly doesn't get all that privilege. Just like Heal said, Malacoda is a pokemon that's supposed to stay in long enough, but its multitude of common weaknesses prevent that from happening.

3. It's just outclassed - I don't think this comes off as a surprise, as a defensive Dark type, Collosoil does its job far better, as a defensive Grass type, Tangrowth invalidates it, as a offensive mon, [insert any Dark or any Grass mon with a offensive presence here].

I know that by now I might've skinned the snake to the bone, but these are just a few observations I've made over this thing. It can't work as a purely offensive mon because of its pitiful attacking stats and speed and it struggles as a defensive mon with so much competition. And Sun is just bad.

So for abilty suggestions, I'm most likely just gonna try and focus on the role that many can see Malaconda realistically accomplish: a defensive/utility mon. And also some possible commentary:

Regenerator - it's not to farfetched when you think of a snake that can heal itself once it's out of battle and it helps it not being to reliant on Harvest (which I think it's a very iffy ability). But Malac's entire purpose was to be a mon that can work in the sun, I think keeping accent on Harvest would still be required so I'm in a gray line when it comes to Regenerator.

Natural Cure - halps deal with status, especially is it needs to switch a lot of times

Filter - not being so afraid of all the common weaknesses it has

Sap Sipper - a added immunity that raises one of its stats can prove to be usefull

Rough Skin/Iron Barbs - can help with its low defense and not make U-Turn so spammable

Bulletproof - can say that Malac has thick, treebark like skin (its supposed to reference the Fruit of Knowledge tree if I'm not mistaken) that offeres it extra ammounts of protection.

Intimidate - sounds a bit broken, but with the defensive nature that Malac has, I can see it definetly work, plus that intimidating look that it has.

Drought - this one I'm not a fan of, the mons that set the Sun are already good enough (Zard Y with its raw power, Ninetales with its speed + Nasty Plot, Torkoal with the utility it posesses) and having two Grass mons on the same team is not really a good thing, especially one that invites so many things in. Plus, the only other pokemon that got Drought was Groudon and even then it becomes a Fire type when it Primal reverts (seriously I always tought Groudon was a Fire type even before ORAS). Plus, what exactly even says "intense sunlight" about Malaconda ? Pelliper getting Drizzle made sense since it's a pelican and those things tend to live in ports and tropical lands so a heavy storm is always to be expected, as for Gigalith, well it's a living rock formation and those can be found all around the world, even in deserts. Malaconda is just a grass snake that references a biblical story. Not much else going on for it.

 

[SunshineFuture]

I think that over anything, Malaconda needs at least an extra 20 points into its Speed.

55 base speed might have been just mediocre back in Gen 5, but the speed creep has left Malaconda in the dust. An extra 20 points in speed could open the door to a more offensive set, but it would still leave Harvest viable. Base 75 max speed with Choice Scarf outspeeds Ash-Greninja. If we really wanted to go crazy and add 30 to speed, like what happened with Cryogonal. Harvest sets would still be viable with a set like this:

Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpD / 4 Atk
Jolly / Careful Nature
- Sunny Day / Glare / Toxic
- Power Whip
- Knock Off / Sucker Punch
- U-Turn

I assume that Malaconda got such low speed during to permanent sun. As this does not apply, I feel like this is the one time where an actual stat buff would make sense.

 

[Hesh Kadesh]

What about Stamina? At +1, it can take a Colossoil U-Turn, use Synthesis same turn, and activates Sitrus, leaving it at +2 with full HP. It is still susceptible to more dangerous moves of types it is weak against at +1, but at least it cannot be killed by a "throwaway" utility move on a Mon.

252+ Atk Colossoil U-turn vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 324-384 (74.6 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Colossoil U-turn vs. +1 4 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 232-276 (62.3 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +1 4 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 348-412 (93.5 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

The issue with that is that it needs to switch into something that won't kill it but still deal very minor damage , so it might need an addition to its moveset. Having it switch into something like a Krilowatt Scald will put it at +1, let it live above Colossoil's UTurn, be back up to full HP, and have had a turn to set up. Vs Guts, if it can knock off the Flame Orb beforehand it will live.

252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 38-45 (8.7 - 10.3%)
252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Scald vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 38-45 (10.2 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO

It doesn't change its competitive match ups without the stat up, and you've got to be clever when you use deploy it. That said I also used defensive EV spread simply because of Stamina's possible encouragement to allow it to be more phys defensively minded with this option

edit; i'm against Gluttony for the reason that I believe it doesn't fit the theme so far; it is a mon which is essentially temptation, and the garden of eden story, not a deadly sin which inhales its own supply, even if you encourage the ouroboros idea.

 

[Garbagery]

Stamina would potentially be very dangerous, like triage level on revvy. While the snek is in need of a big ol buff, it basically becomes a wall.

Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Careful Nature
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail

when almost dyign to u turns, it just synthesises up and repeats the day like nothing happened. Also it can't be toxiced off as it can just use aromatherapy. Dragon tail will push most set up sweepers aside and keeping toxic on is well.. you know.

252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Malaconda: 428-504 (98.6 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Scizor U-turn vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Malaconda: 336-400 (77.4 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't have a problem with most of hte other abillities mentioned though.

Drought will be giving sun teams their own (specially bulky) pelliper, which would be nice when sun teams make dat comeback.

 

[Hesh Kadesh]

It can wall up. But it needs time to get there, and any Phazer can flat out kill its 'walling momentum'. It's already suffering against the likes of Haze Tomohawk.

To get to +1 they have to be able to set up, whether through a BP or a move addition. That's going to take some time, and any time they take damage, they have to be at full health. A Choice Banded Leechlife from Araquanid can 100% OHKO, as can MCharX with Flare Blitz (never mind with sun), while a Banded Buzzwole can take it out at +3. (using your EV array)

It also means all you can do.in that situation is heal up, giving a free switch in to your opponent. With Mala's poor speed, that's not going to go well.

Chip and entry damage hurts Mala who doesn't gets boosts from that - taking even one tick of Stones is going tto put Mala in OHKO range from Colossoil and it still can take a OHKO without needing stones.

 

[BP]

Poison Heal is an ability that strikes me as something Malaconda would receive. It provides it with Reliable recovery every single turn and it can successfully pressure any switch-ins with Glare.

Take my set with a grain of salt I've never actually used Malaconda before.

Malaconda @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Glare
- Foul Play
- Leaf Blade
- Wild Charge

However I do believe that Poison Heal is a much better ability then any other already suggested.

 

[Deck Knight]

So I have given it some thought and I think the idea of having Malaconda remain Sun-oriented and having access to Regenerator are not mutually exclusive.

I understand we are presently discussing abilities, however I want to throw out one specific move that works well with Sun, Malaconda's stats, and Regenerator: Flare Blitz. This move would obviously change Malaconda's matchups against other Bulky Grass and Steel types, especially Ferrothorn and Celesteela, and as Malaconda is constantly pivoting in and out, it easily recovers recoil with Regenerator. You can still run defensive sets as well, since Flare Blitz has enough Base Power to get clean 2HKOs with minor amounts of investment.

Now again, we're on abilities so I do not want to reach too far, but there is a second move that directly benefits Malaconda in its role, and might even give it the breathing room to actually set up or abuse sun: Stength Sap. What Strength Sap does is heal your HP equal to the opponent's current Attack Stat, then lower the opponent's stat one stage. Presently only Morelull and Shiinotic get it, however I think its competitive impact would supercede flavor concerns like that. It is nearly perfect in allowing Malaconda to work effectively against the Pokemon it lures, provide it with enough HP to utilize it's great support movepool, and just in general retain its identity as a difficult to take down support wall.

The set I'm thinking of looks something like this, abilities included:

Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry / Heat Rock
Ability: Harvest / Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Atk / 136 SpD
Careful Nature
- Strength Sap
- Flare Blitz
- Sunny Day
- Power Whip / Knock Off / Rapid Spin / Glare

With this new set, Malaconda gets to either provide great sun support for a team by setting up against any bulky Grass that isn't Pyroak, and preying on opponents trying to beat it with physical attacks or whittle it away with U-turn by using their own high Atk scores against them. Sitrus Berry with Harvest is good if you do not expect to switch into Knock Off, Regenerator with Heat Rock gives Malaconda some utility there because the item is helpful but not central to the set.

More importantly, for your last move you can tailor it to your team's need, utilizing either Fire + Grass coverage Pyroak is famous for or running Knock Off to weaken opponents gradually. Or, if your team just needs pure support Malaconda can retain its role as a paralysis spreader or Spinner.

 

[snake]

I'd rather not see Stamina. It'd be rather easy to eat a Special hit, get the +1 boost (doesn't have to be a physical hit), and then stall out everything with Synthesis / Toxic / Knock Off. It just seems like a dangerous route to go, especially considering you can run 252+ on Defense EVs. I'll do calcs later but I can't get behind this ability yet.

 

[G-Luke]

And I thought Voodoom would be hard to update - but no offence, I'd rather not see Stamina. Not only because of what snek said, but I'd like to eventually see Coil+Power Trip Mal and that ability breaks it.