Chain Chomp Heatran (lol?) OU

darkfireslash

I was playing Shoddy one day when I realized that I hadn't made a new team in a long time. My old Baton Pass team was at page 7 and I was bored of using it. So I decided to make a new team. The Suspect tests got me interested in Garchomp (I want it OU by the way) but I wanted to make an OU Team. Then I came across what was known as Chain Chomp. I wanted to make a pokemon with the same kind of power that was legal in OU. So I chose Heatran.

Then I wanted someone who could attack from the Physical Spectrum while providing decent coverage combined with Heatran. So I chose DDGyara.

I wanted another pokemon which could lure out physical walls and kill them so Gyarados could sweep. I looked around and found Mamoswine, which as a bonus was immune to hail and sandstorm. So he entered my team.

I realized I wanted a lead that was somewhat unconventional, and could smash through things and lure out special walls. Azelf was chosen, but I ran a Life Orb set to boost power without Choice. The poke itself isn't really unconventional, but the set is, kind of.

I then wanted another special sweeper. Looking at my team, I found a water type and a fire type, but no grass type. Then I realized "Why not use Celetran?" So Celebi entered my team.

Then I remembered Fake Out leads. All the pokemon I had added previously pretty much destroyed any other leads, but I wanted something in particular that would have tons of power without a Fake Out Lead but would absolutely destroy the other team 6-0 (or something like that) if it got one. Steadfast Lucario got the OK.

And there's the team.

This team has a great record on Shoddy, with a record of something like 7-1, and my only loss due to a bulky water and Celebi gone. Since that, I added HP Electric onto Heatran, making it a semi-effective revenge killer against bulky waters. I usually don't reveal Celebi and Heatran until near the end, so most of the time Bulky Waters are KOed before anything happens. Still, it's my biggest weakness, in my opinion, and any team with more than 2 Bulky waters is going to kill me.

In - Depth Analysis

The Lead

Azelf @ Life Orb
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
-Psychic
-Fire Blast
-Grass Knot
-Explosion

Item: The reason I chose Life Orb is because it's completely unexpected. Life Orb gives me the boosts needed to get OHKOs instead of 2HKOs.

EV Spread and Nature: Max Speed for outspeeding, obviously, Max SpA for strength, and 6 HP because it's left over. Timid gets me to max speed.

Moveset: Psychic and Fire Blast to cover as many common leads as possible, Grass Knot hits TTar and Swampert. Explosion is there because after seeing their lead die, many opponent's first instinct is to send in their special wall. Then, Bang, special wall (aka Blissey) is gone. Heatran and Celebi can then sweep better.

How Azelf Fares against other leads:

Azelf: Fire Blast is a 2HKO.

Metagross : Fire Blast. I'm pretty sure that even with Occa Berry, Metagross is either a 2HKO or a 3HKO, never seen a lead Metagross without an Occa Berry yet, so don't know about that.

Jirachi: Fire Blast. Essentially a Metagross without an Occa Berry.

Aerodactyl: Psychic hits it.

Swampert: Grass Knot is an OHKO

Infernape: Psychic it first turn, most likely it's carrying SR so it's a nice knockout.

Roserade: Fire Blast.

Hippowdon: Either Psychic it or switch out to Lucario.

Ninjask: Switch out to Gyarados and start DDing. Next poke in is KOed.

Smeargle: Psychic.

Crobat: See Smeargle.

Tyranitar: Grass Knot puts a dent in it. Either that or Explosion if Sandstorm and recoil damage are killing me.

Gliscor: Psychic is a 2HKO.

Heatran: Either switch to Gyarados or Pyschic it.

Bronzong: Fire Blasted.

Abomasnow: See Bronzong.

Forretress: See Bronzong.

Ambipom: Switch out to Lucario

Mamoswine: See Bronzong.

Machamp: Psychic hits it for 2x damage.

The SubPetaya Sweeper

Lucario @ Petaya Berry
6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
-Substitute
-Aura Sphere
-Shadow Ball
-Vacuum Wave

Item: Petaya Berry was chosen to maximize Steadfast Lucario’s ability to handle Ambipom etc.

EV Spread and Nature: EVs were maximized in Special Attack and Speed to maximize function, and the remaining 6 were in Defense to give Lucario the right amount of HP.

Moveset: Substitute since this is a SubPetaya set. Aura Sphere is the main attack, and Shadow Ball hits incoming Ghosts for 2x damage. Vacuum Wave is so I don’t get revenge killed that easily. It also lets Lucario become somewhat of a revenge killer.

The Special-based Choice Scarf killer

Celebi @ Choice Scarf
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
-Thunder Wave
-Earth Power
-Leaf Storm
-Hidden Power Fire

Item: Choice Scarf lets me outspeed several threats expecting Defensive Celebi and get them with my attacks.

EV Spread and Nature: Timid was chosen over Modest to enable me to use HP Fire, Max SpA and Spe to maximize attacking, and the leftover 6 EVs in HP.

Moveset: Celebi is geared to destroy many of its counters, including: Gyarados with Leaf Storm, Heatran with Earth Power, and Scizor / Forretress with HP Fire.

The Physical Wall Killer

Mamoswine @ Expert Belt
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
-Ice Shard
-Superpower
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge

Item: I chose Expert Belt over Life Orb since I had way too many LOers (Azelf, Gyarados, Heatran) already.

EV Spread and Nature: Jolly lets me outspeed some walls that otherwise I would have a problem killing. 252 Atk to power up my moves, with the rest in Speed, leftovers in HP.

Moveset: Ice Shard helps to take down Gliscor and other flying dragons cough*Salamence*cough that are immune to Earthquake. Superpower hits Bronzong, and Earthquake and Stone Edge are there to add coverage.


The Physical-based DD killer


Gyarados @ Life Orb
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge
-Ice Fang

Item: Life Orb lets me hit many threats without the restriction of Choice. It gives several KOs which help me take down threats to my team.

EV Spread and Nature: Jolly is obviously to help me outspeed threats. Max Attack and Speed to help with attacking, and leftovers go into HP.

Moveset: Dragon Dance lets me boost Gyarados’s attacks to high levels, and Waterfall, Stone Edge and Ice Fang are there to add coverage.

Garchomp In OU: (Something like Chain Chomp) Heatran

Heatran @ Life Orb
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
-Dragon Pulse
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Electric

Item: Life Orb once again boosts attack power without the restrictions of Choice Specs / Scarf.

EV Spread and Nature: Timid lets Heatran outspeed other Heatran except for those using Choice Scarf, which are horribly common. Max SpA and Spe for sweeping abilities, and the remaining 6 in HP.

Moveset: This was made to be as similar to Chain Chomp as possible. The Suspect Garchomp tests gave me the idea to create something like that in OU. However, Chain Chomp was mixed and this is purely Special. Dragon Pulse instead of Draco Meteor, Fire Blast is the same, Earth Power instead of Earthquake, and Hidden Power Electric instead of Outrage. I always ended up losing to stupid Bulky Waters and I wanted a way to get rid of them. HP Electric usually lets me cripple a Bulky Water, and then I send out Celebi and Leaf Storm it. Or if I’m low on health and the Bulky Water outspeeds me, I just go to Celebi right away and absorb a Surf.

What I'm considering adding to my team:

Rotom-C @ Leftovers
(Over Celebi, Gyarados or Lucario)
252 HP / 168 SpA / 88 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Will-o-Wisp
-Leaf Storm

Note that there are 10 or so things that I am testing, if you want read the comments and check to see that what you are telling me is not something already suggested. Thanks.

Well, that’s my team. I hoped you like it, and please RMT!
 
On Azelf don't use Shadow Ball. TTar resists it so I don't know why you'd use it against a TTar, and Fire Blast already 2hkos other Azelfs. If you're set on a 4 attack moveset I'd go with Grass Knot to dent TTar and OHKO Swampert. Also, no need to switch out on lead Gliscor, just psychic it for a 2hko
 
The team looks solid, and i'm no expert. If i were to make a suggestion, maybe you should replace mamoswine. Unless your personal experience says otherwise, it doesn't seem like it will be strong enough to do anything significant.

Maybe you could replace it with something like specs mence, who would also lure in physical walls but could deal insane amounts of damage to them with draco meteor or fire blast. If you were to add him, he'd also be able to take the earthquakes aimed at lucario and heatran.

If you insist on keeping mamoswine, i think that you should at least replace nevermeltice. The only physical ice move your mamo has is ice shard, and its targets are usually OHKO'd by ice shard regardless of the item. The only exception to this may be gliscor, but even then expert belt would be more useful because it would give a bigger boost in more situations. Also, you seem to have invested more in attack than special attack. Even though your mamo's set has more physical moves than special, it might be useful to invest more in special attack, considering his relatively low sp attack.

This isn't meant to be critical, but i'm curious; how is your heatran like chain chomp? it was my understanding that chain chomp's power came from its ability to look like a physical attacker, then nail the physical switch in with draco meteor. But your heatran, which is known to be a special attacker, will only hit switch ins with special attacks.

As a final suggestion, if you truly wanted to emulate chain chomp, then you could have a moveset consisting of something like

Heatran @ Choice Band/ Life Orb
Jolly
EVs: 252 atk/ 252 spd/ 4 HP

Fire blast
Explosion
Earthquake
Filler, i suppose

Anyway, the idea would be to fire blast the first time you switch it in, then explode the second time as a special wall comes in. It's gimmicky, but it could work, and it's a far closer imitation of chain chomp.

Good luck on the team :)
 
cmurph: Thank you for rectifying that, I guess I messed up on that while assembling my team. How does Energy Ball sound? That way I wouldn't have to split EVs. And it hits Tyranitar on its weaker defense. I'm going to do some damage calcs (which I'll probably mess up since I'm so bad at them) and see how it works out.

Give me a sec to figure it all out.

-darkfireslash
 
IIRC Grass knot is a special move just like Energy Ball and hits Tyranitar harder than Energy Ball. And although TTars spDef is lower than his Def, remember that Sandstorm (that he always has) boosts his spDef. Maybe HP Fighting would work on Azelf, as It has far better coverage, allowing you to strike Pokemon such as Heatran.
 
Replace mamoswine? Mamoswine revenge kills flygon, salamence and metagross easily. He also loves taking blissey's thunderwave and forcing the switch.

The only physical wall you're hitting hard (ish) with Ice beam would be skarmory and it hardly seems worth it. There's good potential in replacing celebi with Rotom-C which can take fighting attacks aimed at Mamo and Heatran and has the benefit of hitting skarmory and swampert hard (which losing celebi would otherwise stop.)
 
cmurph/Frosty: lol i didn't see that. My messed up calculations are of no use lol. Thanks for helping me on that, I didn't know Gliscor was a 2HKO. I'll put on Grass Knot right away. Thanks a ton.

V97: As Get-X says, Mamoswine is an invaluable part of my team. If I send out a Heatran, an opponent's first impulse is to send out Heatran lol. There's just so many of them that Fire Blast would just get me killed. I'm also pretty sure Chain Chomp doesn't explode. Anyway, the way I intended it to be like Chain Chomp was the type coverage. In that point of view, it is similar. Another point is that without any Special Attack EVs, Fire Blast does less than it should by quite a bit, so anyone with some level of experience will recognize the explosion and swap to their ghost. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Get-X: I guess you're right about Mamo, I was actually thinking of Superpower to get the kill on Bronzong. Expert Belt would work then. I'll look at Rotom-C, test it out maybe. Any set suggestions would be helpful..thanks a lot.

By the way, I got that stupid gigantic font thing fixed.

-darkfireslash
 
That's true. My suggestion was simply a way to imitate the concept behind chain chomp. Also tho, even if you keep mamoswine, you should definitely switch to expert belt. It's a much easier bluff for choice band, as i said before, because it gives a bigger boost and it will boost in more situations.
 
It might be better for Azelf to use Expert Belt. It lets you bluff that you're running a more conventional leadZelf set, and still gives good boosts with Azelf's good type coverage.

You also don't seem to have a SR user. Mamoswine could drop Superpower for SR, unless you really need Superpower.

xXxNovaXxXx said:
Please use Focus Sash on Azlef. You will be easily KO'd by Lead Infernape. Fake Out+ Fire Blast=Dead Azelf. Also LO isn't needed because Azelf already has an amazing amount of SpAtt.
Click to expand...

If that happens, LeadApe has managed to not set up SR and will be left at 1 HP after Azelf Psychics it. Easily revengeable by Mamo or Lucario.
 
3 LO users is a lot. I mean a stall team could wear them down pretty easily if mamoswine is gone. Also your team seems like an all offensive team. You've got no wall whatsoever, not even one bulky poke, They're all 252 Attack or SpeA and 252 speed. You should change your Gyarados into a bulky one and switch lucario for the Rotom-C you considered, or if you really want stat boosts, you could opt for Sub-Beam Rotom-C.

Though you do have a great team overall, especially with classic cele-tran combo.
 
yeah I'm surprised no-one has meationed this but unless ur an awesome predictor, Celebi will get destroyed by scizor if celebi is locked into something other than HP fire. You also do not have stealth rock so switching is not a problem for your opponent. Personally it seems a waste to lose that synergy between celebi and heatran because you are locked into something.
 
petrie911: I'll test it out. I really didn't want to give up type coverage on Azelf for SR, so I didn't. The Superpower thing was suggested by Get-X, and I'm still testing it out, but SR will probably something to test too.

pokemon: Also something to test, thank you. Any replacement ideas for the LO? Expert Belt maybe?

ginganinja: Do you have any replacement ideas to boost celebi's speed without petaya/salac since that would ruin the point of celebi switching? I was looking, but please tell me if there are any other speed-boosting options. Anyway, i usually do predict scizor switch ins and go out to heatran, which obviously destroys Scizor. If I know there's already a Heatran on the other team, I Earth Power them. It's true, it's a lot of predicting, but everything still works out great.
 
xXxNovaXxXx said:
Please use Focus Sash on Azlef. You will be easily KO'd by Lead Infernape. Fake Out+ Fire Blast=Dead Azelf. Also LO isn't needed because Azelf already has an amazing amount of SpAtt.
Click to expand...
You are contradicting yourself.
Fake Out breaks the sash, so it doesn't really matter what it uses.
The only real changes I suggest besides what the other posters havestated is replace Gyarados with the Rotom-C set you have up there already.
Keep the choice scarf on Celebi, as it's the only real reliable thing you have, considering the moveset.
I rate 8/10.
Nicely built team.
 
thanks, third stage.

Lol everyone wants me to replace a different poke with Rotom-C. Celebi, Gyarados, Lucario. I'm going to have a ton of tests to do, so it's probably going to take until monday maybe for me to see which of these is the best choice. Thanks again.
 
You have Timid, -Atk nature, on Mamoswine.
He is physical in nature and you have an all physical set.
Why the attack drop, or was that a mistake.
 
Put a muscle band or expert belt on gyarados. Muscle Band is good because that our Gyara only has physical moves( well duh, what gyaraods would pack special moves?). But expert belt is for the coverage. Its up to you really.
You should keep LO Heatran for the insane power it has. And like the poster above me said, your mamoswine has a timid nature.(+speed -attack) you were probably thinking of Jolly nature(+Speed-Special Attack).

Like Third Stage and other posters have said you should switch a poke for the Rotom-C you are tesing. I think that you should switch Gyarados for Rotom-C because Mamoswine has the almost exact same coverage as Gyarados, while Rotom-C also adds bulk to your team and can cripple physical sweepers with WoW and has quite a few resistances isn't affected by ground, normal, fighting moves. Heatran has a ground weakness, mamoswine has a fighting weakness, and lucario has both fighting and ground weaknesses so it has great synergy with your team.
 
Ok. Thanks for fixing that error. I'll update it on my Shoddy team if its wrong. Like I said, I'm testing, and I'll certainly consider muscle band. Thanks. However, I'm leaning towards Expert Belt as Muscle Band has only a slight increase.
 
pokemon said:
Put a muscle band or expert belt on gyarados. Muscle Band is good because that our Gyara only has physical moves( well duh, what gyaraods would pack special moves?).
Click to expand...

Gyarados isn't hitting much for Super Effective that would make the Expert Belt a viable option, and the Muscle Band gives Gyarados jack shit in Attack.
 
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