Charizard: Still viable?

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Talz

Greetings all! Smogon is new territory for me, but please, I'm very interested in learning how to battle competitively. I apologize in advanced if this is the wrong place for this thread...

Charmander was always my favorite Pokemon growing up. You could say he holds a special place among Pokemon; the idea of not having any of his species in my team is completely outlandish.

What I'm asking is where he can still find a viable team spot. I've never fought a true competitive battle, only had a few on Shoddy Battle since I joined. I must admit, I'm having a hard time with him, but I certainly have no intention of giving up just yet! Infact, i'm a stuborn bastard really...

Here's my inexperianced assessment of him:

Pros: Diverse move-pool that can deal with most of his weaknesses, great Special attack, great speed, probably the only Pokemon that can use Belly Drum effectively, ground immunity, blaze, 4x grass resistance, 4x bug resistance.

Cons: Bad defenses, 4x rock weakness, his dual STABs don't really compliment each other that well.

Seems kinda hit and miss to me...

At a glance he looks like the perfect candidate for a special sweeper, but I've had little luck this way. This is probably due to trying to bring him out too early or having a team that doesn't back him up well, or perhaps most likely, having no experiance.

Bellyzard can easily sweep entire teams, but it's very risky and priority attacks are the easy answer.

Choice specs or scarf would compliment him well, but leave me limited; something I'm not a fan of.

You guys got any other ideas or experience with using this Pokemon effectively, preferably some other way then belly drum?

I know he's probably a bad choice for a beginner like me, but then again, the challenge is half the fun. ^^

Thanks in advance!
 
Remember that Charizard also has access to Belly Drum's little brother, Swords Dance. That said, I can't think of much Zard can do with SD that Infernape can't do better. That's really the overall problem with Charizard.
 
sorry but no, the prevalence of stealth rock makes belly drum extremely unreliable, and most other sets are outclassed by moltres
 
Umm..., I think he doesn't care if Charizard is completely outclassed by Moltres or Infernape.

I don't know if you will get used to this community. They are all like OMG I GOT TO OHKO EVERYTHING WITH THIS ONE ATTACK IF IT IS THE LAST THING I DO!!!

Swords Dance is a great idea, and it's easier to set up than Belly Drum for sure. I would recommend Roost for sure. An SD Mixed Attacker would do good, although I wouldn't recommend both on the same set. As you said, it can learn plenty of moves. The 4x resistance to Grass and Bug aren't too important, compared to being resistant to something like Scizor's Bullet Punch. So you can have a Roosting Single-Stat Sweeper or an SD Mixed or Physical Sweeper. The Roosting one might work well with a Life Orb. Speaking of Roost, if you really wanted to use Belly Drum, Roost works great with that. I don't know how all this will do in Shoddy though, I haven't had too much experience with it. You said that you sometimes bring it in at the wrong times, so compliment this Pokemon with a Rapid Spinner to get rid of Stealth Rock.

That's all the info I have for you. Also, just so you know, I am also a noob at this, so some of my advice might suck, but I'm just trying to help out. :-)
 
Charizard might be all right in UU, but it won't do very well in OU. Stealth Rock takes away 50% of Charizard's health when it switches it, and charizard can't really take a hit from anything because of its poor defences and typing.
I know how you feel though, charizard has always been one of my favorites too lol but he just doesn't work really well in competitive play and your probably better off using something like infernape or moltres.
 
As both previous replies noted, it is not that Charizard lacks the potential to be a viable pokemon, it is simply that he is outclassed in all areas that are not Belly Drum.

Belly Drum is rather gimmicky to begin with, and coupled with charizard's 50% loss from stealth rock you have a very hard to play combination. Still, a lead Bellyzard is not an unthinkable idea, especially with the prevalence of metagross leads. Being a lead means you can disregard stealth rock, making that belly drum much easier to obtain. I'd just use the set listed on smogon, pasted below

Charizard @ Salac Berry
Jolly-252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 Def (30 HP IV)

-Belly Drum
-Substitute
-Fire Punch
-Earthquake/Thunder Punch/Outrage

I added thunder punch and outrage for water and dragons, respectively. A very bulky Gyarados or Salamence can scoff at Fire Punch/EQ, especially if they get more than 1 intimidates in. Outrage not only removes Salamence from contention, it also gives you coverage only resisted by Heatran. The lock and confusion of Outrage are negliglbe on this set seeing how unlikely you are to switch in again if switch out.
 
lone said:
As both previous replies noted, it is not that Charizard lacks the potential to be a viable pokemon, it is simply that he is outclassed in all areas that are not Belly Drum.

Belly Drum is rather gimmicky to begin with, and coupled with charizard's 50% loss from stealth rock you have a very hard to play combination. Still, a lead Bellyzard is not an unthinkable idea, especially with the prevalence of metagross leads. Being a lead means you can disregard stealth rock, making that belly drum much easier to obtain. I'd just use the set listed on smogon, pasted below

Charizard @ Salac Berry
Jolly-252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 Def (30 HP IV)

-Belly Drum
-Substitute
-Fire Punch
-Earthquake/Thunder Punch/Outrage

I added thunder punch and outrage for water and dragons, respectively. A very bulky Gyarados or Salamence can scoff at Fire Punch/EQ, especially if they get more than 1 intimidates in. Outrage not only removes Salamence from contention, it also gives you coverage only resisted by Heatran. The lock and confusion of Outrage are negliglbe on this set seeing how unlikely you are to switch in again if switch out.
Click to expand...

Outrage, is probably the worst thing you could put on Charizard. Not only does it not get STAB, but it gets so easily revenge killed with being locked in and not being able to switch out, with its loads of weaknesses (Tyranitar says sup), and is just not worth it.
 
lone said:
I added thunder punch and outrage for water and dragons, respectively. A very bulky Gyarados or Salamence can scoff at Fire Punch/EQ, especially if they get more than 1 intimidates in.
Click to expand...
I would just stick to Earthquake in the last slot actually. If Blaze is activated (an easy task thanks to substitute and Belly Drum). Salamence and Gyarados are both OHKOed if Stealth Rocks are up.

Bellyzard can be ridiculously hard to set up, but when he gets the proper support, he's an absolute menace. I'd never try using any other set with Charizard though as most of his other tricks are done much easier by Infernape or Heatran.
 
Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch vs Bellyzard: 33.22% minimum

Unfortunately, to activate Blaze and Salac Berry, you must allow Scizor to KO you. A catch-22.

:(

Sorry, for the most part, Charizard is simply not worth ever using in OU.
 
its a shame.....why stealth rock....why couldnt it have been stealth blah and been normal and not change the world so much...hopefully they wont start comin out with like stealth bush, or stealth flame
 
Stealth flame would herald the fall of Scizor and the renewed viability of Charizard, I'd be perfectly ok with that.
 
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