COMMUNITY VOTE: IRC vs Discord

Should ASB move to Discord or stay on IRC?

  • Move to Discord

    Votes: 27 67.5%

  • Stay on IRC

    Votes: 13 32.5%
  • Total voters
    40
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Texas Cloverleaf

Texas Cloverleaf

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[16:45:02] <Texas> how would you all feel about moving to discord
[16:45:10] <Complications> i wouldn't mind that
[16:45:29] <Jayy> uhh, i wouldnt be against it, but i cant really see why
[16:45:52] <Texas> irc is dead, discord would be easier to get new folk
[16:46:02] <Texas> downsides being someone would have to write a bot that can replicate asbot
[16:46:10] <Complications> discord's pretty cool
[16:46:13] <Complications> np
[16:46:25] <ooraloo> discord is cool
[16:47:11] <Jayy> the only thing about discord's api i never got was how to deal with permissions
[16:47:19] <Jayy> (see: bot writing, not server management)
[16:47:46] <Zarator> <&Texas> irc is dead, discord would be easier to get new folk
[16:47:53] <phoenix> I am perfectly fine moving to discord
[16:47:55] <Zarator> I don't think new players join ASB through #irc
[16:47:58] <phoenix> this is the last holdout
[16:48:03] <phoenix> what zarator said is true
[16:48:06] <Texas> that's kind of the point
[16:48:10] <Zarator> Though they may head to #irc after they joined ASB
[16:48:13] <Texas> new players might if we were on discord
[16:48:22] <Texas> link it in smogon main chat for instance
[16:48:24] <phoenix> doubtful but eh
[16:48:25] <phoenix> but
[16:48:28] <Zarator> It's not like people cruise through random channels then stumb on us by chance
[16:48:31] <Texas> there's 250 ppl there right now
[16:48:38] <phoenix> oh yeah
[16:48:39] <dogfish44> I don't object to setting up a discord server fwiw
[16:48:41] <Texas> 350*

[16:48:47] <phoenix> the OU chan has a list of smogon things
[16:48:50] <Zarator> Smogoners are more likely to stumble on us through the forum IMO
[16:48:55] <dogfish44> Lord knows I already have 40 servers or so, one more won't hurt, and being rid of IRC might be nice
[16:48:56] <Texas> ofc zara
[16:49:04] <Texas> but at some point we need to consider modernizing
[16:49:10] <Complications> I personally found ASB through sig links
[16:49:12] <dogfish44> otoh, the bots will take time to migrate
[16:49:15] <phoenix> the only reason I see to stay here is asbot, which you can probably
[16:49:23] <phoenix> make on discord
[16:49:25] <Zarator> I could see the need of #irc for large communities like #ou or (outside Smogon) #myanimelist
[16:49:26] <Texas> that's my thing too
[16:49:29] <Jayy> bot writing in discord is simple node.js
[16:49:31] <Texas> if we can get a discord asbot
[16:49:35] <Texas> there's not much reaon to remian
[16:49:37] <Birkal> asb is the only smogon-affiliated part of smogon still running on IRC
[16:49:39] <Zarator> for whom attracting people right through the channel is an important thing
[16:49:40] <Birkal> from what I know
[16:49:45] <phoenix> what birkal said
[16:49:50] <Texas> this and strongs are the only reasons i keep irc open
[16:49:51] <phoenix> #flamel just moved
[16:49:51] <dogfish44> CAP still is, afaik
[16:49:52] <Birkal> (running primarily over showdown / discord, I mean)
[16:49:54] <smashlloyd20> asbot or i riot
[16:49:56] <Zarator> But I doubt that we would attract any new ASBers just because we move to discord
[16:49:58] <dogfish44> well, CAP is on showdown I guess
[16:49:58] <Birkal> no, CAP runs on showdown
[16:49:58] <phoenix> cap technically is but
[16:50:08] <phoenix> oya ps
[16:50:09] <smashlloyd20> also bring back onion_bubs
[16:50:10] <Birkal> nothing in CAP happens on IRC anymore lol
[16:50:11] <Zarator> and I've checked discord - it doesn't offer much extra functionality which irc doesn't

[16:50:14] <phoenix> cap IRC is dead
[16:50:22] <Texas> zarator there isnt a functionality argument
[16:50:26] <Texas> the argument is about where people are
[16:50:28] <Complications> zarator it's not necessarily that we attract them because we're on discord
[16:50:33] <Complications> it's more of a visibility issue
[16:50:35] <phoenix> discord doesn't really have anything over IRC and IRC doesn't really have anything over discord
[16:50:40] <Jayy> its modernization and expansion or smthn
[16:50:52] <Zarator> Also the idea of changing chat program every 2-3 years or so kinda bugs me
[16:50:55] <dogfish44> Discord offers a lot of functionality imo. That said, 'visibility' I don't think is an issue
[16:50:57] <phoenix> besides discord having voice which we wouldn't use

[16:51:01] <dogfish44> ... it's been like 6 years of IRC
[16:51:02] <Jayy> i mean, if we're doing this, i might be able to work on cloning asbot
[16:51:07] <Zarator> I mean, IRC has been existing for over a decade
[16:51:18] <Texas> so?
[16:51:20] <ToonDizzy> Or we can poke apt-get
[16:51:23] <Texas> smogon no longer enforces it
[16:51:24] <Zarator> whereas discord sounds like those chat programs which come and die every couple years
[16:51:30] <Texas> our target audience is smogon/showdown
[16:51:44] <Jayy> when the audience changes, we should change with it
[16:51:51] <Complications> i think discord is a step up from those zara
[16:51:52] <dogfish44> having been involved in a community of around 300 moving from Skype to Discord, I'll say that Discord taakes about a week to get used to, but it's much better
[16:52:06] <Complications> skype curse and ts all tend to have issues i don't find in discord personally
[16:52:07] <Texas> +1 who adapted to discord pretty quikly
[16:52:16] <Texas> only thing i dislike
[16:52:18] <Jayy> hell, im a huge computer gamer, discord is much better for me than any other program
[16:52:21] <Texas> is that it has shite log functionality
[16:52:23] <Jayy> so make that another +1
[16:52:24] <Zarator> Mind you, I tried discord myself
[16:52:25] <Texas> log searching anyway
[16:52:26] <Zarator> I have it on PC
[16:52:31] <Zarator> and it's definitely not hard
[16:52:32] <phoenix> confirming discord has shit log searching
[16:52:34] <Jayy> yeah logs suck on discord
[16:52:37] <phoenix> also shit log c/ping
[16:52:39] <Zarator> I mean, it's a chat program - how hard can it be?
[16:52:44] <Complications> discord has a cleaner interface than teamspeak and doesn't cost money and skype and curse are both buggier
[16:52:46] <Complications> substantially
[16:52:46] <Zarator> I just think nothing will change
[16:52:49] <phoenix> discord isn't hard at all
[16:52:53] <dogfish44> Discord's perms setup is easier
[16:52:53] <Zarator> so yeah, do it if you feel like
[16:52:57] <Texas> does it matter if anything changes?
[16:52:57] <Jayy> ^ @ dogfish44
[16:52:58] <Complications> the live chat might be nice
[16:52:59] <Zarator> I don't care much either way
[16:53:02] <dogfish44> for instance, we could genuinely set up a #raidzone
[16:53:05] <Jayy> perms in discord are easy af
[16:53:09] <Jayy> lmao #raidzone
[16:53:15] <smashlloyd20> yeah subchannels are much easier on discord
[16:53:16] <Zarator> Dogfish44: No reason to
[16:53:20] <Zarator> it'd kill #capasb
[16:53:21] <Zarator> <3
[16:53:24] <Texas> at the end of the day we've maxed any utility we can get from irc i reckon
 
Discord 100%, the app is much better I think and easier to maneuver than IRC, and is easier for things like recapping chats, and different rooms can be available for discussions/battle challenges/shitposts/stuff like that. More people use discord for other stuff besides ASB, I personally only use irc for this, and moving it to discord I think would make everything nicer in the long run. Bot scripting I guess would be an issue, but I'm an economics major, not a computer science one, so I know nothing about that really.
 
lol I was actually thinking of bringing this up in SotG and having a discussion about it, but yeah okay this will work.
 
IMO I am not opposed to going to Discord and it honestly I think it would be easier in general. For the short time I've spent on ASB and IRC not once have I used IRC for anything other than ASB. With my current standing right now I rarely use Discord even though I have a ton of friends that use it because I'm more suited to Skype more often than not so Discord is usually either put in the background or not even on at all. Moving to Discord would actually help me connect further to people that normally use Discord and it wouldn't just being deadweight for me anymore. As long as we can get ASBot and all the facets we have on IRC right now, I would have no problems with it.

However, on the subject of "visibility" and "advertising" for newer players. I actually do not see how moving to Discord is going to help ASB grow as a whole. I feel as chat groups such as Skype, IRC and Discord come a short while after you join the actual community itself. For example when I joined, I didn't find this by IRC or any other chat groups or even showdown. I found this just by browsing around on Smogon's socialization area and by the looks of that chat log I'm not the only one who found it like that. I think if you were going to use the chat groups to advertise or help newer players get in the community it shouldn't be mentioned after the fact you join.

Relating this post in the State of the Game Discussion. You should take anything about the communities chat group's and put it with a thread for all the newcomers in a Beginner's Resource thread. That way anyone who is curious can maybe join the chat group up before hand and ask questions about what they need. It seems like a lot of people that have recently joined are having problems finding what they need here so including this information and having Beginner's Resources all in one place will make it quick and easy for someone new to jump in as quickly as possible and not get lost so easily. I know from my short experience here I was incredibly lost when I first join and it was hard to find the things we need sometimes.

But if we were to stay on IRC I won't be upset about that at all bc I still like IRC and how simple it is to use. It's about the same as Discord when it comes to user friendliness IMO.
 
12:5 o_0 already no point in making this point, but still its worth to reiterate.

Why not both?

Mods start with Discord, if we indeed get more folks to join then we can think of Bot building and moving completely.

Idk why it has to be black and white? Community will spend more time where ever there is more action, eventually the lesser used chat room will no longer be worth to maintain and thus will be discontinued.

Edit: If not mods, then people who are interested in maintaining Discord could start a channel for us there, and represent us. It is not like we won't be joining the channel till we have a bot there you know?
 
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irc is easier to make look like I'm not fooling around
i don't really mind either; it's not like I don't have
x3aRoib.jpg
as pinned tabs anyways lol
But Zarator is right in that it's as highly unlikely that people will find us via discord as it is for interested people to find us on irc.

Edit: I will certainly admit that discord's features are better.
Edit2: I would also like to note that the link to irc right now is in a very, very, hard-to-find place. Disregarding the fact that approvers tend to link it upon approving a profile, putting the link to it (regardless of if its irc or discrod) at the top of the handbook and beginner's guides seems like a sounds idea.
 
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To the point of both, potentially breaking the community into two parts would be destructive and counter intuitive. However, sending a vanguard of people who are more interested, including a bot and maybe some "discord committee" to finalize design and stuff, and slowly integrate that, post on the forum about the change over and all of that if Discord is the decided forum of communication would be the best transition course for the group.

Though I agree, I don't think it will matter in terms of people finding us, but for the community it might be considered an upgrade in our chat system, which is a major portion of the game obviously.
 
[16:46:02] <Texas> downsides being someone would have to write a bot that can replicate asbot
[16:49:54] <smashlloyd20> asbot or i riot

That is almost all. The complement is, I agree with Fort and Zar's post, and I'd still stay on IRC even if we migrate to Discord, just in case old vets want to make a comeback and got disheartened by the #capasb graveyard instead.
 
On first glance, there's no reason to move from IRC. Our channel is currently the most active on synirc (absolutely bucking the trend for Smogon channels on IRC dying out in favour of PS! Rooms and Discord) and the sixth most active channel of all those channels across all servers that have ChanStat in their chat. We have a convenient bot written for us that helps gets stats and whatnot, and it's working out well in terms of filling our needs. After all, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?

However, despite this, I support a move to Discord. Here's why.

Probably the biggest reason for moving to Discord IMHO, is that it gives ASB live chat a great opportunity to reboot. This is a good thing considering how much of a cesspool #capasb is becoming in terms of how... toxic the chat tends to get, because it gives us an opportunity to start all over, leave all the bad behind us on migration and start with fresh minds and fresh... yeah. When I got QOp's on #capasb, what I wanted out of the chat was to create a chill, friendly atmosphere where people can get along and new users feel welcome from entering. Somewhere along the line, this atmosphere I liked just... vanished and in place, a tense, toxic atmosphere where arguments can blow up out of nowhere. This is not the sort of chat I like and it's a large reason why my presence on IRC has greatly diminished to the point where I'm only active during graveyard hours (Evenings my time) where this atmosphere is not as present, "giving up" so to speak. This chill atmosphere I want can be helped further considering mods on Discord being able to edit and delete messages to get the toxic stuff out of a Discord chat, and the ability to make multiple channels for multiple topics. Basically, I see Discord as a second chance to get the ideal chat atmosphere that I would love ASB chat to have.

Another reason is because Discord is basically better than IRC IMO in the three months I have been using it. You get context the moment you join, which is great in the scenario that you join, see some random message, and wonder what is going on. Instead of getting a recap from a bot, you can just scroll up and there you go. There is bad log function, but we can always make the Discord ASBot be able to keep track of what is said and put it in logs which is readily accessible by people with the appropriate permissions; ASBot and ChanStat in one! For the copy/paste issue, there is an option to make Discord look like IRC for easy copy/paste. There's also other stuff like subchannels for specific topics, mods can delete bad messages/spam, the ability to edit your messages, etc. There's also voice chat if you are into that. I'm not, but some of you probably are, so there's that option. Relevance isn't a great argument IMO, but it's pretty well known that IRC has been dying in general for years and Discord is becoming more and more relevant so yeah. Also Smogon not enforcing IRC yadda yadda yadda.

Yeah it sucks to not have ASBot when we move, but hopefully we get someone to do a Discord version.

If we go ahead with this, let me know and I suppose I can get it started up or something. I do also have plans to advertise the server in the main forum via sticky (well we should be advertising Discord in this forum by default) and yeah. Unless one of my fellow mods wants to take the initiative of course, not that it really matters who sets up the server since you can have multiple "QOp's" on the Discord Server. IDK. Also I'm in favour of just allowing people to join immediately once the server is set up.

Some thoughts I guess?
 
I know my opinion might not matter but for me without an updated phone, IRC is definitely better, since I need to download Discord first, and it keeps saying parse error (This is me, my life.).

Also, yes, Asbot is very helpful, and it might be some time before the (Future) Discord channel gets a replica.

The other option I see is to use both IRC and Discord for different purposes. Like still use IRC as Asbot alone. (Though chatting there is my only option unless I can get a new phone T-T)
 
Its_A_Random said:
Probably the biggest reason for moving to Discord IMHO, is that it gives ASB live chat a great opportunity to reboot. This is a good thing considering how much of a cesspool #capasb is becoming in terms of how... toxic the chat tends to get, because it gives us an opportunity to start all over, leave all the bad behind us on migration and start with fresh minds and fresh... yeah. When I got QOp's on #capasb, what I wanted out of the chat was to create a chill, friendly atmosphere where people can get along and new users feel welcome from entering. Somewhere along the line, this atmosphere I liked just... vanished and in place, a tense, toxic atmosphere where arguments can blow up out of nowhere. This is not the sort of chat I like and it's a large reason why my presence on IRC has greatly diminished to the point where I'm only active during graveyard hours (Evenings my time) where this atmosphere is not as present, "giving up" so to speak. This chill atmosphere I want can be helped further considering mods on Discord being able to edit and delete messages to get the toxic stuff out of a Discord chat, and the ability to make multiple channels for multiple topics. Basically, I see Discord as a second chance to get the ideal chat atmosphere that I would love ASB chat to have.
Click to expand...

IAR, I couldn't agree more with your thoughts but this part not so much. IMO I don't see how moving to Discord will stop the toxicity of the chat because arguments on IRC aren't directly correlated to IRC. If an argument is going to arise its always going to be about the game itself it seems like and I don't think Discord is going to change that fact at all. Moving to Discord wouldn't really give me a sense of freshness in terms of the game, just a different medium to express my opinion. Even if mods are active to try to stop the hostility by making separate channels, edit/delete messages, etc, I feel like that isn't going to do a lot more good either. It honestly just sweeps things under the rug and people will just be at each others throats the next time around and mods are going to have to be there once again to save the day. The cycle will just repeat itself like it tends to do on IRC.

Overall, to me just because the medium has change, doesn't mean the people will change. Not calling out anyone here because I think you are all great people but as far as constant arguing that needs to stop. I know I do not have any place to say that and my words may be quite empty to most but seriously it does. There is no reason in my eyes, why we should be arguing over something we all deeply care about and enjoy.

I don't mean to try to bring your post down in any way IAR because you have a respectable opinion but I thought I could give my two cents on that matter.
 
TheBisharpKing: It's a fair argument. Maybe I am being a bit too altruistic in hoping that a new medium will allow people to use the new medium with a fresh mind and that expecting members to bury their hatchets when moving to a new medium is a bit unrealistic. I just... kinda want people to take a step back and realise it's only a game to be honest and that being at each other's throats isn't going to help the playerbase.
 
Silver_Lucario42 said:
If we move to Discord, then how am I going to avoid Texas Cloverleaf's images?
Click to expand...
In case this was a serious question, you can avoid Texas' NSFW Image spam; User Settings > Text & Images > Un-tick the boxes in Image Display and Link Preview. Now you can browse Discord and not have to deal with looking at some NSFW stuff.

Also for those wondering what I meant when you can make Discord look like IRC: Go User Settings > Appearance > Click "Compact".
 
Lol I only post like once a month now

Also I support moving to Discord to make that public, for numerous reasons but mostly convenience

From a community perspective I think it's vastly easier to get people to join the asb community by giving them a link to click then by getting them to set up irc
 
I think that while the extra moderation tools on Discord might not seem like much, it could potentially have a huge impact on improving the community.

Nobody wants our community to be toxic. I think that the features of the new platform can help to quarantine petty arguments and make the community more positive in a way that kicks and bans can't accomplish. And maybe these little things are enough to give us all an excuse to be good.
 
I would like to know the exact features that would change and the pros and cons of each system please.

Its_A_Random since you have used both and have a mod's perspective, could you please list them to make it more understandable.
 
Just to list a few from the perspective of a common scrub:

Editing and deleting messages
Typos can be fixed! Also entire arguments can just.... go away.

Voice chat (includes optional muting of either sound microphone or both
I just want to listen to Toon talk but have a bad mike :^)

Blocking users changes
At first it seems like "wtf?" since every time a blocked user says something, there's this block in chat saying "5 blocked messages" or whatever. But it's actually helpful since people can't talk about you behind your back while you block them anymore, nor do you miss any legit comments they make in a conversation.

Avatars in chat
Always fun, not much to say

Links have previews and images auto-show
Most of us are fairly careful to keep things sfw but we could keep a special text room labelled "Texas go here" or something ;P no offense or anything

History is kept
You can keep up with the conversation, and immediately see context without needing to recap or anything. You can also see the results of a convo you had to leave in the middle of.

More channels/rooms in one server
Right now, we're basically just 2 rooms on SynIRC. From my understanding of Discord, we would end up becoming a server that can open channels. Unless of course we plan on joining smogon's server or something like that

All users can format now!
Including bold strikethrough and italics. Haven't seen underlining yet though.

And that's all I can think of off the top of my head
 
Fort Colorcastle said:
Just to list a few from the perspective of a common scrub:

Editing and deleting messages
Typos can be fixed! Also entire arguments can just.... go away.

Voice chat (includes optional muting of either sound microphone or both
I just want to listen to Toon talk but have a bad mike :^)

Blocking users changes
At first it seems like "wtf?" since every time a blocked user says something, there's this block in chat saying "5 blocked messages" or whatever. But it's actually helpful since people can't talk about you behind your back while you block them anymore, nor do you miss any legit comments they make in a conversation.

Avatars in chat
Always fun, not much to say

Links have previews and images auto-show
Most of us are fairly careful to keep things sfw but we could keep a special text room labelled "Texas go here" or something ;P no offense or anything

History is kept
You can keep up with the conversation, and immediately see context without needing to recap or anything. You can also see the results of a convo you had to leave in the middle of.

More channels/rooms in one server
Right now, we're basically just 2 rooms on SynIRC. From my understanding of Discord, we would end up becoming a server that can open channels. Unless of course we plan on joining smogon's server or something like that

All users can format now!
Including bold strikethrough and italics. Haven't seen underlining yet though.

And that's all I can think of off the top of my head
Click to expand...
These points seem Aesthetics in the surface.

Editing and Deleting is not a big deal, not having it actually helps us think before we speak?

Voice chat (includes optional muting of either sound microphone or both
Voice chat is not necessarily ASB related, folks who want voice chat can go to discord and have a chat?

Blocking user changes seems more control to mods

A non smogon Avatar is not needed per say.

Previews for links is not needed as the context is usually read, and once you read the context you will already decide if you want to see the link or not.

Context retention is a good point.

More channels are not required, same can be accomplished with IRC rooms.

Formatting is a plus.

---------------

Basically the concrete reasons to move as per Fort is Control, Context Retention, Formatting. I would like to discuss two things here: the problem with logs, and the control aspect. Who has more controls, all users or mods? Is that one of the main reason to move? If so, then agreeing with it is better than bringing up fluffy points.

Obviously we would love the fluff once we move, but the decision to move shouldn't be based on fluff.

Additional Pros of Discord, Cons of Discord would be appreciated.
 
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