Death Via Sandstream

CalmMind

CalmMind

Yeah, I couldn't come up with a more creative title. ;_;

This is the first team I've made in a long while. I'm posting this because I feel that I've forgotten about something - a major threat perhaps, but I don't know what.

My Team At A Glance
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Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP/232 Def/40 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Roar
- Ice Fang

Sets up the sand, Roars away the Ninjask's that insist on setting up, laughs at your regular Tyranitar and isn't always 2HKO'd by Boah's Ice Beam if my calculations were right. Deals with most Physical attacks in general.

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Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP/252 Def/60 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp/Taunt/Sleep Talk/Haze

This guy covers up offensive threats such as Gyarados, SD Lucario, Heracross, Metagross and Breloom. It can also handle Bronzong and Skarmory in the wall department. Will-O-Wisp for burning foes that aren't affected by Toxic Spikes, Taunt to shut down things that don't attack, Sleep Talk so it can come in on Breloom and still be a threat to its well being, Haze to get rid of stat increases.

It's EV'd to get Leftovers recovery and to beat DDGyara after Sandstream and Stealth Rock do their damage and it does between 66% - 79% to BulkyGyara with Thunderbolt. If you guys have a better spread for this guy, tell me - I'm not exactly the best at distributing EV's.

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Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 204 HP/36 Spd/96 SAtk/172 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

A Mixape counter was really needed. I could also go with Starmie for countering Mixape, but Pursuit sucks. The guy spins and lays down its own Spikes.

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Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 148 HP/252 Def/108 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Wish
- Flamethrower

I don't really need to explain fatty here, but Flamethrower hits the Steel types and has a chance of burning stuff that comes in on it. Burning an incoming Garchomp is fun. (though unlikely) Wish is to support the team, Tentacruel and Bronzong in particular.

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Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244 HP/128 Def/136 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Obligatory Normal, Flying, Ice, Rock, Dragon and Ground resist. Mamoswine can't touch it and Garchomp, Weavile, Tyranitar and Staraptor aren't particularly fond of it. Stealth Rock for more secondary damage and Toxic to poison Cresselia who doesn't get hit with Toxic Spikes.

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Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 18 HP/252 Atk/240 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast

Some real offense is nice, especially when it is a land shark that is loved and loathed by all. It takes advantage of Sandstream and kills things mercilessly and my solution to Heracross with a Guts boost from the Toxic Spikes. (by that I mean revenge kill, FYI).

I'll admit that Heracross can be a bit of a bitch to me, but then again, it's a bitch to a lot of teams. Without Tentacruel, Mixape would probably rape everything else, so kindly don't state the obvious unless I've clearly overlooked the obvious - I am a little rusty after all.
 
Since this team is based on the Sand Storm weather effect, you need to have a Pokemon that you can depend on to take him/her out every time.

Half your team happens to be week to Ice.

Whats the answer? Replace Celebi with a defensive minded Scizor. Helps deal with your Ice weak and brings 10 resistances with it, instead of nine weaks (wasn't sure how to word that). It can also set up Light Screen over Reflect, which I think would help your team out more based on what it has some weaknesses to (water grass ice electric etc.).

No SR's? I mean come on! Those help render the most common type in OU useless! I think some one that looks like a giant hippo from lord of the rings needs to replace Ice fang with a certain move.
 
Ambitions said:
Since this team is based on the Sand Storm weather effect, you need to have a Pokemon that you can depend on to take him/her out every time.

Half your team happens to be week to Ice.

True, though I do have two Pokemon that resist it and a fat fuck known as Blissey for the special Ice attacks.

Whats the answer? Replace Celebi with a defensive minded Scizor. Helps deal with your Ice weak and brings 10 resistances with it, instead of nine weaks (wasn't sure how to word that). It can also set up Light Screen over Reflect, which I think would help your team out more based on what it has some weaknesses to (water grass ice electric etc.).

Celebi has 7 weaknesses. If I replace it with Scizor, sure the resistances sound very nice - no doubt, but then I lose something with sap the HP of walls and something to deal with Gyarados. Maybe I've missed something. I haven't battled in so long. I am open to suggestions though, so I may consider it due to those nice resistances, but the thought of it being Gyarados set-up fodder does not fancy me. Neither does being trapped by Magnezone, though it does has Brick Break. At least Celebi can hit Gyarados.

No SR's? I mean come on! Those help render the most common type in OU useless! I think some one that looks like a giant hippo from lord of the rings needs to replace Ice fang with a certain move.

Fair enough. I'll take it into consideration.
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I wouldn't replace Scizor for Celebi just because someone said you're weak to "bleh-type"...let's replace that so you aren't so weak to that afterall. It's not convincing enough (atleast for me) when someone says "3 pokemon are weak to so-and-so, please replace with this so you can resist it". Especially when the Pokemon you are looking to replace is countering one of the most feared Pokemon in the game (Gyarados).

Bronzong and Blissey cover all major Ice-type threats anyway. It's not an issue. Though Stealth Rock was a viable comment that should be added right away. Consider replacing Hidden Power [Electric] for Stealth Rock on Bronzong.

Take my advice which should convince you more to throw Wish on Blissey to support your Bronzong and Tentacruel doing what they do.
 
I do agree that the Stealth Rock comment was valid, and is something that I'm thinking about.

Regarding Wish, I just don't know what I want to replace on Blissey, that's all. If I replace Softboiled, I still have one recovery move, but it's not instant recovery, which Blissey probably needs, especially in a Sandstorm. I'll probably replace Toxic, but I just want other opinions first.
 
I apologise for not finishing that, and by that I mean what to replace for Wish.

Keep Softboild for your own recovery, as you can't heal effectively with only Wish.

Seismic Toss is hardly ever needed anymore. Then again...you have Toxic Spikes which means Toxic is a little less useful. Flamethrower is always a good option for Bronzong, Scizor and even Forretress opposition, which can Earthquake your predictable Tentacruel switch in. So having another Pokemon who can hit Forretress hard is great.

Personally, I feel that Seismic Toss should be replaced for Wish. Toxic hits Pokemon who are unaffected by Toxic Spikes and Flamethrower's hitting plenty of Steel-types who make Garchomp's cleaning harder. Heatran can be dealt with by Tentacruel, but in desperate situations it still can't take out Blissey anyway. Raikou isn't exactly common and hopefully Toxic Spikes is up. Hidden Power [Ice] varients may be able to hit Garchomp hard, but you can break Raikou's Substitute with Earthquake and then revenge kill it with Garchomp anyway (all this depends whether or not you have Toxic Spikes up.
 
How does this sound;

Stealth Rock over Ice Fang on Hippowdon.
Wish over Toxic on Blissey.

Another question, if Heracross were to switch in on Toxic Spikes, its Attack power goes insane, especially with Choice Band. My question is, would the danger of Heracross getting a Guts boost be threatening enough to go without Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel? Close Combat/Megahorn does a significant amount of damage to Hippowdon, 74% - 87% damage to be exact and OHKO's everything else. Garchomp would be my only hope in killing it. Would Toxic Spikes really be that beneficial despite that danger?
 
Tentacruel without Toxic Spikes would signal a change straight away, as there's no point in using him for anything else other than a Toxic Spike layer. You might aswell replace him for Starmie then. But I would keep Tentacruel and Toxic Spikes unless you really want to find room for Gliscor.

I've already explained why you add Stealth Rock over Hidden Power [Electric] on Bronzong, and the reason for Seismic Toss' replacement for the advent of Wish. There is no need for Hippowdon's loss of Ice Fang, nor Blissey Toxic being taken away for Stealth Rock. I have given you the changes.
 
I just want to point out that you have an overwhelming heracross weak, and nothing can really come into it without excellent "prediction". Is celebi really needed? Why not a defensive Zapdos, Gliscor or some kinda stalkingdos which can help with status. Speaking of status, how well do you deal with Gengar/Bronzong leads that like to sleep and cause annoying damage?

Also considering how this team is stallish... put rapid spin > knock off on tenta....
 
Taylor said:
Tentacruel without Toxic Spikes would signal a change straight away, as there's no point in using him for anything else other than a Toxic Spike layer. You might aswell replace him for Starmie then. But I would keep Tentacruel and Toxic Spikes unless you really want to find room for Gliscor.

That's what I thought - I just wanted to check with you. I would of picked Starmie over Tentacruel if it wasn't weak to Pursuit. I'll keep Toxic Spikes.
and the reason for Seismic Toss' replacement for the advent of Wish.

As I said before, going without Seismic Toss leaves me open to Raikou (I always seemed to run into this guy for some reason - it's almost like Shoddy Ladder hates me), Heatran, Houndoom, as well as bulky special waters that Blissey can usually handle. I just don't see dropping Seismic Toss as a wise decision. I mainly had Toxic for Cresselia, but Bronzong can Toxic Cresselia without hazard. What's it gonna do, Thunder Wave a Bronzong with Gyro Ball? Ice Beam it? Psychic it? :p
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I'll admit that the thought of getting rid of Ice Fang on Hippo probably wasn't the best idea. I'll put Stealth Rock on Bronzong. Where do you think I should put its Special Attack EV's, Defense?
 
Yeah since you decided to take Hp Electric off your Bronzong, now Celebi is your only Gyarados counter a valid reason to keep it around if it truly can 3hko it.

However, I still think Bronzong should rock Light Screen to help with your Ice weak which could become a problem in the late game. I don't see a need to have 2 Pokemon that know Toxic on a team with a Toxic Spiker.

EDIT:
latinoheat said:
celebi has to stay or gyra will run through this team
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After 1or 2 DD, Bronzong should still be able to show Gyara whats up with STAB Gyroball. I'll do the Calcs now.

EDIT EDIT: Barley a 4HKO...Never mind.
 
Mystica said:
Is celebi really needed? Why not a defensive Zapdos, Gliscor or some kinda stalkingdos which can help with status.

Because Zapdos isn't the Gyarados counter it was in ADV thanks to Stone Edge. I'll still consider it nonetheless, but like latinoheat said, Gyara would run through it without Celebi. Gliscor doesn't do shit to Gyara IIRC.
Speaking of status, how well do you deal with Gengar/Bronzong leads that like to sleep and cause annoying damage?

About time someone mentioned that. Celebi and Blissey should handle Bronzong just fine with Leech Seed, Seismic Toss and Flamethrower (somewhat), as well as Natural Cure - I'm not 100% sure about that, but I'm fairly confident that either of those two could give Bronzong a hard time. As for Gengar, he's a bitch with his movepool, but Blissey handles most sets. Unless it's packing Focus Punch, Gengar generally don't stay in on Blissey.

Also considering how this team is stallish... put rapid spin > knock off on tenta....

Regular Spikes do suck, I'm not Stealth Rock weak and only Hippo is bothered by Toxic Spikes (Celebi and Blissey have Natural Cure) and Tentacruel absorbs them. I'll think about it, but I like the idea of removing Leftovers from walls more, but hey, you gave me something to consider at least.
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I'm ashamed for not pointing that out...I need to be more observant. Please remove Knock Off for Rapid Spin as Mystica pointed out.

And yes, regarding Bronzong's EVs.
 
Toxic spikes + only one bug resist = Heracross problem. With Guts and a Choice Band, EVERYONE is one or two hit KOed. Garchump is OHKOed, Celebi is OHKOed, everyone else dies in two quick hits by Megahorn.


I would get Porygon2 over Celebi, Celebi has lots of weaknesses and will invite Heracross in constantly, since it can switch in on all four moves (though Reflect will hamper it's sweep). Porygon2 does a much better job at killing Gyarados, and can also get in on random Heatrans and stuff. It's just a good all around wall, and Recover + Trace keeps him around for a long time. I would have Boltbeam and Toxic (to hit fliers like Zapdos) with Recover. EV spread should be something like 228 HP, 80 Satk, 202 Def. Bold nature.

You pretty much need Gliscor on this team because of the Toxic Spikes. Heracross is still common despite Gliscor usage, and having to sacrifice a pokemon to Heracross every time he comes in will suck. Gliscor will fix this.
 
Well, Celebi may be one of the better Gyarados counters but Zapdos can do just as well. Stone edge fails to kill the typical 252/220 bold spead *most* of the time. But with SR in play its pretty much a KO after a DD. But with Zapdos you can counter heracross better.

I see how you handle bronzong and gengar, and yeah that way should work.

C'mon taylor, get with it ^.~

edit: Oh and rapid spinning spikes is a must....knock off is not even nearly as useful

edit: porygon2 sucks and adds even more of a hera weak lol
 
Weezing would help you alot against Gyarados, whilst dealing with the Heracross/SD lucario problem you have. The lack of reliable recovery+sandstorm doesn't help but blissey has wish to support a little better. Toxic isn't really helping against ST cressellia so you could always put reflect on bronzong.

You are probably better just giving blissey protect over softboiled as well.
 
If I were to replace Celebi with Weezing, how does this sound?

Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: Too tired to do them right now - probably near max HP and Defense
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp/Taunt/Sleep Talk/Haze

I chose Sleep Talk as an option so I could switch this into a Breloom and screw with it. WoW for physical sweepers, though Toxic Spikes should be set up. Taunt for slower things with supportive moves. Haze to get rid of stat boosts.

This will take care of Gyarados, Heracross, Lucario, Bronzong (no one gives this thing Psychic, right?), Metagross (especially ones with Reflect), Skarmory and Breloom.

Taunt would do better with Skarmory, Sleep Talk would do better with Breloom.
 
there have already been some great rates, so i have only a few small notes:

~I would lead with Bronzong instead of hippo in order to get rocks up as soon as possible. It will be a lot easier to switch into hippo since he can easily slack off damage.

~I don't really see the point of naughty on Garchomp. Fire Blast 2HKO's skarm either way, and i would much rather have the extra survivability from adamant.

~I'm not sure how solidified you are in your choices of Weezing and Wish on Blissey, but I think both are absolutely necessary. Weezing covers up all the major offensive holes on this team (Gyara, Hera, SD Luke), and Wish is pretty much mandatory with him and tentacruel on the team. (I would choose WoW as the 4th move on weezing).

~Remember, Bold Wish Blissey is illegal! Change the nature to relaxed; Blissey isn't particularly fast, and most things with similar speed are EV'd to outrun it anyway.
 
TAY said:
~I don't really see the point of naughty on Garchomp. Fire Blast 2HKO's skarm either way, and i would much rather have the extra survivability from adamant.

lol, I just checked my damage calculator and you're right. Shows how much I've forgotten. :P

~Remember, Bold Wish Blissey is illegal! Change the nature to relaxed; Blissey isn't particularly fast, and most things with similar speed are EV'd to outrun it anyway.

Here's a quote from the Smogon analysis on Blissey - the WishBliss analysis to be precise;

"There is a rumor that Wish Blissey only comes in Calm or Modest (or some other random set of natures). This is false. To the best of anyone's knowledge, Wish Blissey appears in all natures."
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I believe Modest is viable. If so, then use this spread: 16 HP / 252 Def / 240 SAtk w/ Modest.

imperfectluck's Blissey EV spread which has grown on many people for some time now. Allowing you to OHKO Garchomp and Salamence with ease, and put a dent in anything weak to the Ice-type in general. The Defense still hits 119 which is mroe than enough, and if you think about it a Bold nature isn't as crucial as you may think.
 
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