Democracy: refusing communism (OU RMT)

Preface
Hi everyone, this is my second RMT of mine and of mine in Smogon (ignore if it sounds clumsy, my previous account glitched somehow). I haven’t been playing Pokémon for a while, and would like to come back to this amazing strategy game. The thing I have realised before I have left Pokémon, is that the metagame kind of suffers from polarisation: that is, extreme offense and heavy stall. Never mind the decreasing use of unconventional methods (e.g. Trick room, sunny day, rain dance, etc.), balanced teams doesn’t seem to appear. A lot of us and I can fully understand that this is usually caused by the limited slots of Pokémon you can use in a battle (hmm… 6 Pokes right?). However, that doesn’t mean people need to go to the far left or right.

In the end, my team is still offensively orientated, but hopefully, it can show the benefits of having defensive capabilities in an offensive team over an all-out offense party.

EDIT: Sorry for the people who loved stall teams for me treating them like communism. This is just a name, and has nothing to do with politics.


Team Building Process

This is a brief section on I accessed and pick the members of the team. Do comment on it if you feel like doing so, but it’s not rocket science.

In OU, a dragon resist, a bulky water and a dragon is always beneficial to a team. Here are the Pokemon that fit into the categories that I am comfortable with.
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They formed my Physical Sponge, Bulky Water and Wall Breaker. Then, I need a Pokemon that can lay Stealth Rock and can do good. Heatran covers the special side.
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This is because Forretress will be busy spinning, and has toxic spikes to install, so that it can help to break stall. Talking about stallbreaking, BulkyGyara is another good guy to come into this team.
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My team is pretty safe now, but what is good about an offensive team if it doesn’t have a speedie (that is, base 120 and above)? Weavile comes in nicely as a revenge killer.
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Thanks to many advices, I tested Rotom-H and it seems to work a bit better than Weavile, if fact a more balanced Pokemon that Weavile herself.
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In order:
Heatran
Lanturn
Salamence
Gyarados
Forretress
Rotom-H

Team Status

Here I will show you the synergy by using Marilland’s team builder chart, and the weaknesses of my team.

2 Pokemon has a single Stealth Rock weakness
3 Pokemon Susceptible to Spikes

1 Pokemon Vulnerable to Toxic Spikes
4 Pokemon damaged by Sandstorm
6 Pokemon hurt by Hail

Marilland Type Chart (I have problems getting the chart into the post, but I bet you can do that) (if anyone can help me that would be great)


Team Explanation and Commentary


This is the section you all have been waiting for. I will show you right now. These sets are pretty standard.

Changes in Bold.
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heatran.png

Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion

Why Heatran?
No one will doubt the power of Heatran. It can 2HKO Salamence with Fire Blast and Stealth Rock support. Like the set showed in the StrategyDex, this Heatran is tailored not as a suicide lead, but something useful in mid and late game as well. It’s one of the few Pokemon in OU that have access to a strong fire move and still has solid defences. Heatran provides me a fire immunity, which works well at absorbing fire attacks aimed at Forretress and Weavile.

Why this set?
Pretty obvious, if you ask me. Stealth rock, Fire blast and Earth Power for good. Explosion allows me to hammer walls like Zapdos and Suicune, as well as the greedy DD Gyarados. Although the EVs are obvious, I will explain something about it. With a Naive nature, this Heatran is able to receive a trick choice scarf without much of a problem. Shuca Berry saves me a lot of trouble, which I will explain why very soon.

My Usual responses to most common leads (April 2010 Shoddy):

Azelf: Fire Blast while it taunts, then it will SR where you can finish it off.

Aerodactyl: Fire Blast to have it waste a taunt. Then Gyarados and Forretress will work fine.

Swarmpert: most of them run Roar over surf, and with Shuca Berry its Earthquake will not OHKO you. SR, then go for Gyarados and taunt it, and then DD.

Metagross: Pain because it has Occa Berry which halves fire attacks. Its EQ cannot OHKO you though, so Blast it the first turn. You should be faster so it will run the next turn no matter what, so you can get the rocks up.

Jirachi: Same thing. Fire Blast to scout.

Infernape: Heatran needs to switch so Gyarados would be a good candidate against it.

Machamp: Pain. Gyarados to reduce attack, then perhaps forretress to sponge and set up. But it usually steps back when foreetress is in.

Ninjask: SR on first turn as it would probably Protect. Then you will have to wait for the BPass.

Roserade: Forretress to take sleep, then back to Heatran.

Tyranitar: Pain for my whole team somehow. Again EQ will not kill unless its CB so SR and see what happens. Forretress is good.

Gliscor: I will fire blast. Its not so much of a problem for my team, but Heatran can do little otherwise. It will probably switch anyway, or I can use Gyarados.

Heatran: SR since EP will not OHKO. Then you safest bet would be Gyarados (usually meeting Flygons!?). EDT: sometimes I Earth Power for the fun of it. In fact, KOing opponent Heatran and then having Forretress to Spin is great.


How to use Heatran?

As a general rule of thumb, if you don’t need to switch, then SR at slower leads and attack at faster leads because they can taunt. Try to preserve Heatran if it is not weakened severely in the first or second turn, because it tells you your opponent can do little about it.

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lanturn.gif

Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 HP/56 Spd/252 SAtk/148 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Charge Beam
- Substitute
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Why Lanturn?
This Lanturn is the recently approved SubCharge Lanturn. It lights up my team so well as it can wall Zapdos, Starmie and the likes without much of a problem. Lanturn is pretty underrated in the OU environment, but has a few nice niches, such as the electric immunity, something that Suicune would imagine. It is like using Dragonite over Salamence, and it is not so risky, but serves as a surprise factor, as few teams has an easy way to deal with it. It also serves the bulky water purpose as well as an electric move user. What’s more, walling electric is difficult as the Pokemon generally have moves that can hit Grounds and Grassies super effectively, such as Ice Beam. With Lanturn it poses little problem to my teams. Of course there are drawbacks, such as to fear grounds like Swarmpert, but for now it fits pretty decently. What’s more, Lanturn has another method of recovery other thatn rest and lefovers. It has Volt Absorb.

Why this set?
The usual tanking method is outclassed by almost every other OU water pokemon to a degree. This set is prepared to take up the challenges in OU, blocking Blissey’s toxic with 101 Substitutes, blocking Scizor’s Bullet Punch, and have fun with Charging. It is possible to use surf over Hydro Pump because Hydro Pump’s inaccuracy pisses me off sometimes; Surf would let me lose some KOs though. In short, this is one of the times I can implement offense and defence together.

How to use Lanturn?
Substitute should ease prediction. The worst thing for Lanturn is to get phased. Toxic Spikes from Forretress can help a lot, but if without it Lanturn will work fine. If you have the chance to KO or seriously damaging the opponent, do so. If not, it is better to flee so that one of the other members can set up. EDIT: oh, and don't get greedy with your special attack boosts.

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salamence.jpg

Kulmence (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk/252 Spd/240 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Why Salamence?
Listen guys. Salamence is not really going to be ban in 4th Gen. So until then, love Salamences. Sure, Dragonite and Flygon can be used as alternatives, they own have their nice unique features. I am more used to the hard hitting and versatile Salamence though, and its raw power in unrivalled.

Why this set?
Mixmence. Dragon moves pair up with fire (Heatran) so well. Usually steels are physically defensive, so Earthquake can’t do a lot. My team needs a Dragon, and since using Salamence defensively has the risk of being outclassed by Dragonite and Altaria, and I have another setup sweeper, Mixmence is the way to go. It needs all the speed it can get to outrun other Pokemon.

How to use Salamence?
I generally want to keep Salamence unrevealed until late game. It puts a lot of pressure to the opponent as they will know it is an offensive Pokemon, but doesn’t know what it is, so they will have to play conservatively, which eases prediction. IMO, this Salamence needs absolute support from the whole team because it (almost) cannot afford to take a hit. Even with the sheer power, Salamence is unable to OHKO things easily.

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Dracoboy (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Bounce

Why Gyarados?
Gyarados, on the other hand, form very good resistances for the team. SR would be a problem, but with Forretress I can put it off quite good. Gyarados is also a Pokemon very capable at both attacking and sponging, so using it can improve and balance my team.

Why this set?
IMO Gyarados can never setup and attack easily on its own. If with a DD and max attack, he is not able to OHKO many things. As such, it is better to use it as a stallbreaker. With the defences it should have an easy time switching in and out if Stealth Rock is not present. I am not using Stone Edge because 1)the weak accuracy of Bounce already pisses me off so much 2)Bounce has better coverage and I would be walled if I am walled anyway 3) Ice Fang sucks, seriously.

How to use Gyarados?
Use it like a tank. Keep it away from rocks if you can, and with intimidate and the decent defences it should be easy to use. At many times, Starmie would be present; don’t be afraid to switch out.

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Granny (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/112 Atk/144 Def
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion

Why Forretress?
It is not usual to see such a defensive Pokemon in an offense team; Forretress has Rapid Spin for my team though. Forget about Starmie, there are already two waters in my team. Instead, I get something very helpful for me to set up.

Why this set?
Because other sets are inferior for my team, and are generally inferior as well. Leftovers for the extra healing, since I use a hit and run strategy. Toxic Spikes to break stall, because my team is walled by Blissey otherwise. Doctor Blissey is rare, so usually, toxic spikes are good to deal with the fat woman. As I said before, tSpikes and Rapid Spin are absolute priority, so it will have little chance to use the other attacks. When risked being taunt though, you can see that Gyro Ball is superior over Earthquake, because they are almost all flying/levitate. Explosion is fun, and helps in taking down the walls of the team (or any annoying pests).

How to use Forretress?
Switch into Gyarados, let it DD once or twice while spinning or spiking, then explode. If you feel that spinning is not useful anymore and spikes are done, then explode as soon as possible. It never ceased to amaze me, even if it is not Metagross. You can also switch into revenge killers like Scizor and Flygon. Just beware of Magnezone.
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Oven (Rotom-h) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick


Why Rotom(H)?
As far as ghost Pokemon goes, this one is the most popular, and for good reason. IMO it lies on the offensive side due to his stats, but a balanced pokemon in terms of the function in the standard. Please be aware that Rotom-H is suggested for the use on Shoddy. Otherwise, it is believed that Weavile would work better (DS).

Why this set?
As far as scarfers go, Rotom is one of the major holders as well. Many would suggest because Rotom's movepool contains Overheat, it can be a bluff for the opponent, saving up a moveslot. It would mean that I can do nothing to Magnezone then though, and therefore it is chosen. Otherwise the moveset does not need much explanation, I need a revenge killer.

How to use Rotom?
It is used for revenge killing; however nihilist has suggested that it would be used for a lot of checks for this team. The advice is, pretty much like Weavile and Salamence, try to conceal it until late game. Hiding is always a good strategy provided you are not doing it insanely.
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Ex-Member(s):
Weavile_by_Nadou.jpg

Powagirl (Weavile) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick
- Night Slash

Why Weavile?

Because three steels are redundant (I am sure you know what I am talking about). As a revenge killer, it has to be careful because it is SR weak (although it has paper defences anyway). My team needs some Ice support as well, so Weavile is the natural candidate for me. Weavile’s speed cannot match Sonic’s (the blue Hedgehog), but at least it is faster than 180 mph (because that is the fastest for Skarmory), and attack only less than the max you would see in OU.

Why this set?

Because Weavile cannot sweep. Swords Dance is a wasted move, so Pursuit for Physics and Ghosts, getting STAB as well. I like to use the dark side of Weavile over Ice Punch, and the crit rate might come in handy. Thought about Expert Belt or the likes, none of them can bluff the actual power of Choice Band.

How to use Weavile?

How to use a revenge killer? Use it for revenge.

Possible Pokemon replacing Weavile:

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Trickscarf Rotom --- the merits, such as explosion immunity, is great. However it means I won't be able to revenge kill that much, or Salamence for that matter.
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CB Scizor --- again three steels are redunant, and beside it lacks real speed apart from Bullet Punch.

Current tests:
LO starmie > Gyarados , or not: I will be weaker against the fat pink woman ;
Roost > Outrage on Salamence


Currently on Shoddy I am getting near to 1200 conservative rating. I hope that I can get many useful feedbacks from you knowledgeable smogonites, and help those who are new to competitive Pokémon battling. I will thank everyone in advance. I will even take Jirachi and Celebi into consideration if someone would explain fully how it improves my team. However, I would like to make this team more possible on DS.

I hope you enjoy it as I spend a long time making this.Thanks again.
 
Threat List (thanks to Haunter in the RMT sticky)

Red means problematic.
Orange means could-be problems.
Changes will be marked in Bold.

Please be aware (even if you are) that the list below is no formulae for using this team. This is just my personal response to these threats.

Offensive Threats



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Aerodactyl -
Usually as leads. See Heatran's section.

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Azelf -
Leads: see above post. Heatran takes scarf/specs. Weavile revenge kill.

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Breloom -
Forretress takes sleep, then Heatran and Salamence should do.


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Dragonite -
Unpredictability would be an issue. Fire blast the leads and Weavile revenge kill. Forretress can abosrb physicals.


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Electivire -
Uncommon, but Forretress may be able to set up and Weavile revenge.

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Empoleon -
Lanturn Primarily. Gyarados can taunt, but useless otherwise. Rotom can kill.


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Flygon -
Gyarados is good as long as it avoids Stone Edge. Forretress can set and Weavile for revenge.

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Gengar -
Weavile, Forretress, Rotom with scarf

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Gyarados -
May pose huge problem. My solution is exploding, which is not reliable.Rotom can revenge, etc.

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Heatran -
Heatran to absorb fire. Gyarados does well, so is Gyarados.


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Heracross -
(UU) Heatran if it avoids CC. Forretress and Flying pokes can do.

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Infernape -
Gyarados is safest.

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Jirachi -
Heatran, Lanturn

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Jolteon -
Lanturn. Could be dangerous but I don't see a problem for now.

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Kingdra -
Requires prediction to defeat it. Luckily it gets stalled out by itself usually.

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Latias -
(Uber)

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Lucario -
Gyarados first. Rotom seems to be a good one to revenge kill.

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Machamp -
Gyarados then Forretress. Rotom blacks Dynamicpunch.

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Magnezone -
Lanturn, Heatran. Others works fine.

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Mamoswine -
Leads: switch to Gyarados to taunt. Otherwise Forretress is good.

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Metagross -
Leads: see above post. Sweeper: Forretress can setup and explode, Heatran.


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Ninjask -
Leads: see above post.


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Roserade -
Leads: see above post.

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Salamence -
Prediction is the key. Weavile Rotom can revenge though for the mixed sets.


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Scizor -
Lanturn, Heatran, Gyarados. Forretress can set up.


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Smeargle -
Forretress takes sleep. It is otherwise useless IMO.

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Starmie -
Lanturn. Weavile can revenge.


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Togekiss -
Lanturn for Twave versions. Lanturn and friends do pretty well.

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Tyranitar -
Sandstorm hurts. Otherwise try Gyarados. Weavile can revenge kill.

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Weavile -
Forretress can set up. Gyarados walls, so is everyone except Salamence.

Defensive Threats

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Blissey -
Forretress first. Then Lanturn to sponge flamethrower or something... Forretress needs to get the Tspikes done. Or explosion.

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Bronzong -
Gyarados with taunt is usually safe. Forretress can set up.

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Celebi -
Heatran would be my best switch in. Weavile for killing.

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Dusknoir -
Heatran can absorb WoW, and can stay in if it can KO/no earthquake. Gyarados can taunt and DD if no Thunderpunch.

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Forretress -
Heatran, and perhaps Lanturn can setup.

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Gliscor -
Gyarados first. After being weakened Weavile is safe to use Ice Shard.

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Hippowdon -
Sandstorm matters. For now Special attacks would be good.

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Rotom-A -
Lanturn. Heatran if you sense WoW. Weavile revenge kills.

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Skarmory -
Gyarados can taunt. Lanturn, Heatran work as well.

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Snorlax -
Cursing and resting poses a problem. Luckliy it gets wear down. Rotom can wall normal attacks.

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Suicune -
Lanturn walls, if it has no HP electric Gyarados can taunt. Once Lanturn is gone though it will cut through. Rotom can do a bit.

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Swampert -
Leads: see above post. Otherwise Gyarados is still solid.

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Tentacruel -
Not sure, although uncommon.

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Vaporeon -
Lanturn when it can avoid toxic.

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Zapdos -
Lanturn when it can avoid toxic. Heatran can dent it.
 
Hmm, I don't like the idea of Weavile as a revenger. I think CB Scizor would be better.

Scizor @ Choice Band
Technician
Adamant
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
- U-turn

With this set you can pick off a lot of weakened pokemon using Bullet Punch. Superpower can be a huge help against Heatran/Magnezone that like to switch in on you predicting a Bullet Punch. Pursuit gets rid of and Ghost types that might cause you trouble and U-turn is great for scouting.
 
Hey I got your PM, let's get started.

This team is... interesting to say the least. That Lanturn set, although strange, does look very effective. This team also does abuse Toxic Spikes very well. Surprisingly, the additions of Forretress and Lanturn to an offensive team mean you really aren't weak to much. I would say this team's biggest weaknesses are to Gyarados and Snorlax, actually. Crocune also gives you the blues, I'm afraid. Fortunately, one pokemon solves all of these problems- Rotom-A. Scarf Rotom-A (with trick) is a reliable check/counter to all of the three threats you listed. He also reduces the problems with Lucario and Tentacruel as well. I think this should go in the place of Weavile, who really isn't that good except for killing Salamence, whom the rest of your team can manage (Lanturn, Heatran can survive earthquake with shuca, alternate intimidates with dos and mence on DD versions). But yes, this does make you weaker to mence.

Aside from that, this team is a strange combination of stall and heavy offense that seems to handle the metagame's top threats very well. I have nothing further to add- great team and good luck.
 
Thanks to both Jukain Arashi and Toxic Spork.

Yeah I kind of realised Weavile is not working at its best... So I'll try Scizor and Rotom then,

Using rotom has its benefits... but I figured out that they weighed about the same.
 
Switch out weavile or a Choice scarf brotom-h
This will cover a lot of your red threats, but try to not get him hit by a dark attack
On his first switch in, switch out immediately to scout for t-tar or scizor
he will outspeed +1 gyara, but you're going to either have to sac a poke, or predict a DD
For the Defensive pokes, you can trick scarf onto them, which nullifies their usefulness to almost nil
Also, I would use spikes instead of toxic spikes on forretress, it will put much more pressure on a bunch more pokemon than toxic spikes will, and with your team being so offensive, the other team will probably be switching a lot more, making spikes the superior option. At least try it out, trust me, they are that good.

Here's the set

Brotom-H@ Choice Scarf
Timid
-Thunderbolt
-Shadowball
-Overheat
-Trick

This is the most effective set for rotom on highly offensive teams, like yours
Try not to trick too liberally or even bring out rotom until the late-mid/later parts of the match, where you know the other guys team, because he is your check for A LOT of pokemon.
Next time you make a team, make sure you get the basic threats down, like Salamence, Heatran, Gyara, and T-tar especially.
Happy hunting
 
Thanks Jebus and nihilist.
And thanks for letting me know the "How to use Rotom" section (I presume tere isn't a pokemon called brotom lol?)

EDIT: Spikes are good. However Tspikes are needed to break stall. (Strangely enough Tspikes are used for stalling as well)
 
OK, I am convinced that Rotom-H is better than Weavile. Take note that Weavile might be better on DS because of the avaliability though.

Hey guys, the write up for Rotom-H and changes is team and threat list is done! Please do look at the new synergy!
 
Ok I got your PM

To start off your team has 2 SR weakness and thats always a nono, well for my teams that is. To help with your current problems I think replacing gyara for a LO stramie wiht this set:

EV's: 4Hp 252Spe 252Spe
Nature: Timid/Modest (Depends if you want speed or power)
Item: Life Orb
Moves:

Surf/ Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Fire Blast/Grass Knot/Recover

This set takes care of gyara and suicune nicely, which seems to give your team some problem. The choice for the last moveslot is whether you want to kill Swampert, Scizor, or added survivability. I am aware that you have a spinner, but the most common spinners all fall to top OU pokes.

Good Luck!
 
hmm Starmie and Gyarados looks about the same to me using my theorymon, and it would mean I am weaker against Blissey. Will definately try when I have time though.

EDIT @ below post: But is specially orianted a good thing?
 
2 SR weaknesses are a non issue when you pack a spinner...
This is a pretty cool team. I'm just going to recommend a couple of things I'd change if this were my team.
First, I generally prefer to run a rash nature on shucatran. You still outrun stuff like breloom, but EP and FB get quite a boost in power.
Also, personally I find Outrage on mixed Salamence not very good. You become set up bait for steel or bulky pokemon when outraging. I would like to recommend roost in the last slot. Mence forces MANY switches, which you can use to play mindgames with your opponent. Will you DM or will you recover half your HP? It helps overcome LO recoil, SR and SS, the banes of Salamence and keeps him fit through the whole match
 
My team does not have a speedie now (>120), so I have to keep Tran +speed.
I will try roost since I don't use Outrage very often.

Yes I am weaker to Blissey with Starmie; My rotom usually needs the scarf more than to lock the opponent.
 
For Tyranitar, I'd get out of there instead of taking an EQ with Heatran. What's Tyranitar gonna do? Eq, Fighting-type move, or Taunt probably. Intimidate him and hopefully dodge an EQ with either Salad or Gyara.
 
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