Deoxys-speed: a true Uber?
Read this first
Before I start I would like to say this: read my entire post and preferably everyone else’s before posting, don’t put words in my mouth, and don’t post anything unless you give your reasoning, I don’t want any posts that look like this “OMG DeOxys is soooo ubEr” or “lOl its Crap it put it in UU”.
Before posting read my post read the arguments put forward in other peoples posts then explain your opinions, and explain the reasons behind them.
NO FLAMING!
If people flame I am sure this will be locked instantly, with good reason, so don’t flame.
Overview
Deoxys speed has always been the weakest form of Deoxys (though not the least used due to balanced Deoxys being completely overshadowed by attack Deoxys) and one of the least powerful Ubers, it was banned from advance due to its ability to out speed any Pokemon (bar ninjask with protect), but with the introduction of choice scarf this is no longer true, it is still very fast but it can be out speeded. It is now being tested in the Deoxys-e cup (on shoddy battle) and I believe it should be tested here (note I am NOT saying it should be moved down, I am saying it needs to be tested).
Stats:
Stats:
HP 50
Attack 95
Defence 90
Sp. attack 95
Sp. defence 90
Speed 180
Its hp is bad and its defences are less than spectacular giving it defence roughly equal to Golbat and sp. defence roughly equal to Beedrill (information from Dragontamers SkarmCents and BlissCents), it will survive weak hits from walls/tanks and some resisted attacks but its not going to last long.
Its attacks are better, but not that much, its physical attack is the same as Cloyster or Kingdra and its special attack is the same as Chimecho or Metagross, not bad but its not going to be taking down bulky Pokemon without super effective attacks or a choice item.
Its speed however is good, very. very. good, it can out speed + nature, 252 evs choice scarf Garchomp (499 speed), though it needs 236 speed evs and a + nature which detracts from its ability to attack from both sides (physical and special). Even with no ev’s and a + nature it reaches 435 speed, more than enough to outrun all non-scarfed, non-speed boost Pokemon and some scarfed Pokemon as well.
Stat overview:
Overall it is an extremely fast Pokemon that has below average (but not glass cannon) defences and at best average base attacks.
Move pool:
Notable physical attacks:
Rock slide
Superpower
Pursuit
Zen headbut
Extremespeed
Focus punch
Frustration/Return
Arial ace
Brick Break
Rock tomb
Avalanche
Façade
Secret power
Fling
Drain punch
Giga impact
Natural gift
Poison jab
Its physical move pool is good, but not awesome. Superpower/Focus punch hits Blissey hard. Zen hedbutt gives it a physical STAB option, pursuit caches fleeing opponents off guard, rock slide gives good coverage and a chance at flinching the opponent, Extremespeed may seem odd but it stops opponents with priority moves going first.
Notable special attacks:
Psychic
Psycho boost
Grass knot
Focus blast
Ice beam
Energy ball
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Shadow ball
Flash cannon
Zap cannon
Swift
Water pulse
Hidden power
Solar beam
Shock wave
Charge beam
Dream eater
Hyper beam
Its special move pool is good but not much better than say Porygon-z or Alakazam, and notably it lacks nasty plot.
Best other moves:
Counter
Mirror coat
Psycho shift
Knock off
Snatch
Substitute
Safeguard
Protect
Torment
Endure
Taunt
This is probably the best part of its movepool; CounterCoat with focus sash can often grab a surprise KO. Substitute and safeguard protect from status and psycho shift moves it to the opponent.
Status/Entry hazard
Swagger
Toxic
Thunder wave
Stealth rock
Spikes
These are best left to more defensive Pokemon.
Stat up/tanking moves/support (mostly useless):
Recover
Reflect
Light screen
Cosmic power
Iron defence
Amnesia
Double team
Calm mind
Agility
Rest
Sleep talk
Night shade
Skill swap
Sunny day
Rain dance
Recycle
Psych up
Wrap
Trick room
These moves are best left to more defensive Pokemon.
Movepool overview:
Its physical and special move pools are very good but not spectacular, it lacks a fire move outside of hidden power and is generly blocked by any steel that’s neutral to fighting. One of its main strengths comes from CounterCoat with focus sash but this is neutralized by sand storm, stealth rock, spikes, or any other form of damage, it is also quite easy to out predict your opponent into showing you their move (switch when they expect an attack) and it greatly restricts your move slots, as well as stoping you from useing a boosting item.
It has some nice ways of dealing with status (Psycho shift, Substitute, Safeguard) but its too frail to get much use out of them.
Ability
Pressure: doubles the pp used by foes moves targeting this Pokemon.
This is rarely useful as most low pp moves will 1KO Deoxys but it can let it outstall non-Thunder wave non-calm mind Blissey if Deoxys lacks Superpower.
Typing:
Psychic
It has few resistances (psychic and fighting) but few weaknesses its STAB is resisted by almost all steels.
Good sets in OU:
Life orb sweeper:
Deoxys-speed@life orb
Hasty nature + speed – defence or Naïve +speed – sp. defence
252 attack/252 sp. attack/ 4 speed
Psycho boost
Superpower
Ice beam/Grass knot
Shadow ball/Thunderbolt
This Deoxys can beat Blissey if Blissey switches in on psycho boost or superpower if they both do min damage it will do 100.28%. BoltBeam or fight/ghost for coverage. This set will not out speed scarfchomp, but it needs every ev it has to KO bliss with superpower after psycho boost.
Life orb revenge killer:
Deoxys-speed@life orb
Hasty nature + speed – defence or Naïve +speed – sp. defence
100 attack/156 sp. attack/252 speed
Psycho boost
Superpower
Ice beam
Thunderbolt/grass knot/shadow ball
It can revenge kill Scarfchomp, and tie speed with other Deoxys, superpower 2KOs max/max bliss.
Choice specs:
Deoxys-speed@choice specs
Mild + sp. attack – defence
252 sp. attack/4 attack/252 speed OR 252 sp. attack/252 attack/4 speed
Psycho boost
Superpower
Ice beam/Grass knot
Shadow ball/Thunderbolt
This is walled by Blissey unless you give it 252 attack ev’s, it will not even 2KO max/max bliss, if you go for max attack it will not out speed some scarfed Pokemon.
Choice band:
Deoxys-speed@choice band
Jolly nature + speed – sp. attack or Hasty + speed – attack
18 HP/252 attack/236 speed
Superpower/Focus punch
Zen headbut
Extremespeed
Rock slide/Pursuit/thunderbolt/ice beam
This Deoxys will surprise many opponents but it is very easy to wall.
Thunderbolt stops skarm walling you and ice beam stops bulky grounds.
other options:
Counter and/or mirror coat with focus sash can be added to almost any of these sets, to get a surprise KO but it detracts from Deoxys move slots and without a boosting item Deoxys will not be doing much damage.
Psycho shift is a nice move but it is too situational to be that much use.
Knock off can be used on most sets but Deoxys-speeds defences are not good enough to take the hit.
Snatch is interesting, say for caching azelfs nasty plot but not many Pokemon will try to set up on Deoxys-speed so it would rarely be any use.
Move set overview:
Unless it is weak to one of Deoxys’s moves (or Deoxys is using choice specs Psycho boost) most tank like Pokemon will be able to take it down
damage calculations:
Standard Bronzong
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 18-21%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball 28-33%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs thunderbolt 33-39%
Max attack + nature choice band superpower 41-49%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb thunderbolt 26-31%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb superpower 33-39%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb 22-26
Bronzong takes no more than 49% even from the gimmicky choice band set
Cressalia (support):
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 31-37%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs ice beam/thunderbolt 28-33%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball 48-57%
Max attack + nature Choice band focus punch 19-22%
Max attack + nature Choice band Extremespeed 21-24%
Max attack + nature Choice band Zen headbut 15-18%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb shadow ball 38-45%
The only thing Cressy fears is a Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball getting almost top damage twice in a row.
Cressalia (rest talk):
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 24-28%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs ice beam/thunderbolt 22-26%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball 37-44%
Max attack + nature Choice band focus punch 17-20%
Max attack + nature Choice band Extremespeed 18-22%
Max attack + nature Choice band Zen headbut 13-16%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb shadow ball 29-35%
This Cressy can take any attack it likes and recover off the damage with rest.
Blissey (max defence/hp +nature):
Max attack neutral nature life orb Superpower 70-82%
Max attack neutral nature Superpower 53-63%
No attack neutral nature life orb Superpower 54-64%
No attack neutral nature Superpower 42-49%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 33-39%
Blissey loses to superpower if Deoxys has life orb and/or max attack, but against focus sash or choice specs sets without max attack it can paralyse Deoxys and what’s speed Deoxys without speed.
This Pokemon quite like Salmence your first switch is risky but once you know its set it is quite easy to beat, except for with salamence even its best counter can risk serious damage with this Bronzong will not 1ko’d (only one thing even 2kos) and cressy can take anything but a choice specs shadow ball.
if you sugest more pokemon i should do calculations for i will.
Possible impact on the metagame:
If Deoxys-speed is allowed in OU matches we may see a drop in choice scarfers, mainly Garchomp, who is outspead and 1ko’d. Deoxys-speed would certainly be popular, a prime choice for a revenge killer, and it would certainly be a threat but, though fast, it is quite easy to wall and is easy to take down with pursuit weavile or tyranitar if you can predict them in on psycho boost. Steel Pokemon, especially Steel/Psychic Pokemon can wall it with ease and many tanks that don’t have a weakness to one of its main attacks will be able to take down non-choice sets, the choice sets can be beaten by prediction or a wall. Bronzong in particular walls almost all sets with ease. I believe that the definition of an Uber is a Pokemon that over centralises the game, and though it will be a high OU I believe it probably will not be more popular than, say Garchomp or Inferape once the initial hype dies down and people realise that (though fast) it doesn’t have the raw power to tear trough teams.
Overall I am not certain whether Deoxys is too powerful for OU but I believe it needs testing.
Please if you have skipped to the bottom go back and read trough it all before posting.
Read this first
Before I start I would like to say this: read my entire post and preferably everyone else’s before posting, don’t put words in my mouth, and don’t post anything unless you give your reasoning, I don’t want any posts that look like this “OMG DeOxys is soooo ubEr” or “lOl its Crap it put it in UU”.
Before posting read my post read the arguments put forward in other peoples posts then explain your opinions, and explain the reasons behind them.
NO FLAMING!
If people flame I am sure this will be locked instantly, with good reason, so don’t flame.
Overview
Deoxys speed has always been the weakest form of Deoxys (though not the least used due to balanced Deoxys being completely overshadowed by attack Deoxys) and one of the least powerful Ubers, it was banned from advance due to its ability to out speed any Pokemon (bar ninjask with protect), but with the introduction of choice scarf this is no longer true, it is still very fast but it can be out speeded. It is now being tested in the Deoxys-e cup (on shoddy battle) and I believe it should be tested here (note I am NOT saying it should be moved down, I am saying it needs to be tested).
Stats:
Stats:
HP 50
Attack 95
Defence 90
Sp. attack 95
Sp. defence 90
Speed 180
Its hp is bad and its defences are less than spectacular giving it defence roughly equal to Golbat and sp. defence roughly equal to Beedrill (information from Dragontamers SkarmCents and BlissCents), it will survive weak hits from walls/tanks and some resisted attacks but its not going to last long.
Its attacks are better, but not that much, its physical attack is the same as Cloyster or Kingdra and its special attack is the same as Chimecho or Metagross, not bad but its not going to be taking down bulky Pokemon without super effective attacks or a choice item.
Its speed however is good, very. very. good, it can out speed + nature, 252 evs choice scarf Garchomp (499 speed), though it needs 236 speed evs and a + nature which detracts from its ability to attack from both sides (physical and special). Even with no ev’s and a + nature it reaches 435 speed, more than enough to outrun all non-scarfed, non-speed boost Pokemon and some scarfed Pokemon as well.
Stat overview:
Overall it is an extremely fast Pokemon that has below average (but not glass cannon) defences and at best average base attacks.
Move pool:
Notable physical attacks:
Rock slide
Superpower
Pursuit
Zen headbut
Extremespeed
Focus punch
Frustration/Return
Arial ace
Brick Break
Rock tomb
Avalanche
Façade
Secret power
Fling
Drain punch
Giga impact
Natural gift
Poison jab
Its physical move pool is good, but not awesome. Superpower/Focus punch hits Blissey hard. Zen hedbutt gives it a physical STAB option, pursuit caches fleeing opponents off guard, rock slide gives good coverage and a chance at flinching the opponent, Extremespeed may seem odd but it stops opponents with priority moves going first.
Notable special attacks:
Psychic
Psycho boost
Grass knot
Focus blast
Ice beam
Energy ball
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Shadow ball
Flash cannon
Zap cannon
Swift
Water pulse
Hidden power
Solar beam
Shock wave
Charge beam
Dream eater
Hyper beam
Its special move pool is good but not much better than say Porygon-z or Alakazam, and notably it lacks nasty plot.
Best other moves:
Counter
Mirror coat
Psycho shift
Knock off
Snatch
Substitute
Safeguard
Protect
Torment
Endure
Taunt
This is probably the best part of its movepool; CounterCoat with focus sash can often grab a surprise KO. Substitute and safeguard protect from status and psycho shift moves it to the opponent.
Status/Entry hazard
Swagger
Toxic
Thunder wave
Stealth rock
Spikes
These are best left to more defensive Pokemon.
Stat up/tanking moves/support (mostly useless):
Recover
Reflect
Light screen
Cosmic power
Iron defence
Amnesia
Double team
Calm mind
Agility
Rest
Sleep talk
Night shade
Skill swap
Sunny day
Rain dance
Recycle
Psych up
Wrap
Trick room
These moves are best left to more defensive Pokemon.
Movepool overview:
Its physical and special move pools are very good but not spectacular, it lacks a fire move outside of hidden power and is generly blocked by any steel that’s neutral to fighting. One of its main strengths comes from CounterCoat with focus sash but this is neutralized by sand storm, stealth rock, spikes, or any other form of damage, it is also quite easy to out predict your opponent into showing you their move (switch when they expect an attack) and it greatly restricts your move slots, as well as stoping you from useing a boosting item.
It has some nice ways of dealing with status (Psycho shift, Substitute, Safeguard) but its too frail to get much use out of them.
Ability
Pressure: doubles the pp used by foes moves targeting this Pokemon.
This is rarely useful as most low pp moves will 1KO Deoxys but it can let it outstall non-Thunder wave non-calm mind Blissey if Deoxys lacks Superpower.
Typing:
Psychic
It has few resistances (psychic and fighting) but few weaknesses its STAB is resisted by almost all steels.
Good sets in OU:
Life orb sweeper:
Deoxys-speed@life orb
Hasty nature + speed – defence or Naïve +speed – sp. defence
252 attack/252 sp. attack/ 4 speed
Psycho boost
Superpower
Ice beam/Grass knot
Shadow ball/Thunderbolt
This Deoxys can beat Blissey if Blissey switches in on psycho boost or superpower if they both do min damage it will do 100.28%. BoltBeam or fight/ghost for coverage. This set will not out speed scarfchomp, but it needs every ev it has to KO bliss with superpower after psycho boost.
Life orb revenge killer:
Deoxys-speed@life orb
Hasty nature + speed – defence or Naïve +speed – sp. defence
100 attack/156 sp. attack/252 speed
Psycho boost
Superpower
Ice beam
Thunderbolt/grass knot/shadow ball
It can revenge kill Scarfchomp, and tie speed with other Deoxys, superpower 2KOs max/max bliss.
Choice specs:
Deoxys-speed@choice specs
Mild + sp. attack – defence
252 sp. attack/4 attack/252 speed OR 252 sp. attack/252 attack/4 speed
Psycho boost
Superpower
Ice beam/Grass knot
Shadow ball/Thunderbolt
This is walled by Blissey unless you give it 252 attack ev’s, it will not even 2KO max/max bliss, if you go for max attack it will not out speed some scarfed Pokemon.
Choice band:
Deoxys-speed@choice band
Jolly nature + speed – sp. attack or Hasty + speed – attack
18 HP/252 attack/236 speed
Superpower/Focus punch
Zen headbut
Extremespeed
Rock slide/Pursuit/thunderbolt/ice beam
This Deoxys will surprise many opponents but it is very easy to wall.
Thunderbolt stops skarm walling you and ice beam stops bulky grounds.
other options:
Counter and/or mirror coat with focus sash can be added to almost any of these sets, to get a surprise KO but it detracts from Deoxys move slots and without a boosting item Deoxys will not be doing much damage.
Psycho shift is a nice move but it is too situational to be that much use.
Knock off can be used on most sets but Deoxys-speeds defences are not good enough to take the hit.
Snatch is interesting, say for caching azelfs nasty plot but not many Pokemon will try to set up on Deoxys-speed so it would rarely be any use.
Move set overview:
Unless it is weak to one of Deoxys’s moves (or Deoxys is using choice specs Psycho boost) most tank like Pokemon will be able to take it down
damage calculations:
Standard Bronzong
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 18-21%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball 28-33%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs thunderbolt 33-39%
Max attack + nature choice band superpower 41-49%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb thunderbolt 26-31%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb superpower 33-39%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb 22-26
Bronzong takes no more than 49% even from the gimmicky choice band set
Cressalia (support):
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 31-37%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs ice beam/thunderbolt 28-33%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball 48-57%
Max attack + nature Choice band focus punch 19-22%
Max attack + nature Choice band Extremespeed 21-24%
Max attack + nature Choice band Zen headbut 15-18%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb shadow ball 38-45%
The only thing Cressy fears is a Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball getting almost top damage twice in a row.
Cressalia (rest talk):
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 24-28%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs ice beam/thunderbolt 22-26%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs shadow ball 37-44%
Max attack + nature Choice band focus punch 17-20%
Max attack + nature Choice band Extremespeed 18-22%
Max attack + nature Choice band Zen headbut 13-16%
Max sp. attack neutral nature life orb shadow ball 29-35%
This Cressy can take any attack it likes and recover off the damage with rest.
Blissey (max defence/hp +nature):
Max attack neutral nature life orb Superpower 70-82%
Max attack neutral nature Superpower 53-63%
No attack neutral nature life orb Superpower 54-64%
No attack neutral nature Superpower 42-49%
Max sp. attack + nature Choice specs psycho boost 33-39%
Blissey loses to superpower if Deoxys has life orb and/or max attack, but against focus sash or choice specs sets without max attack it can paralyse Deoxys and what’s speed Deoxys without speed.
This Pokemon quite like Salmence your first switch is risky but once you know its set it is quite easy to beat, except for with salamence even its best counter can risk serious damage with this Bronzong will not 1ko’d (only one thing even 2kos) and cressy can take anything but a choice specs shadow ball.
if you sugest more pokemon i should do calculations for i will.
Possible impact on the metagame:
If Deoxys-speed is allowed in OU matches we may see a drop in choice scarfers, mainly Garchomp, who is outspead and 1ko’d. Deoxys-speed would certainly be popular, a prime choice for a revenge killer, and it would certainly be a threat but, though fast, it is quite easy to wall and is easy to take down with pursuit weavile or tyranitar if you can predict them in on psycho boost. Steel Pokemon, especially Steel/Psychic Pokemon can wall it with ease and many tanks that don’t have a weakness to one of its main attacks will be able to take down non-choice sets, the choice sets can be beaten by prediction or a wall. Bronzong in particular walls almost all sets with ease. I believe that the definition of an Uber is a Pokemon that over centralises the game, and though it will be a high OU I believe it probably will not be more popular than, say Garchomp or Inferape once the initial hype dies down and people realise that (though fast) it doesn’t have the raw power to tear trough teams.
Overall I am not certain whether Deoxys is too powerful for OU but I believe it needs testing.
Please if you have skipped to the bottom go back and read trough it all before posting.
