Dinosaurs in the Sandbox

[zubzub9]

Dinosaurs in the Sandbox​

This team is my not nearly my first team... However it has been derived from a mono-dragon team which was my first team. This team just like all of my other team revolves around the best type in the game... DRAGON! So this team has two dragon sweepers and walls that take care of other dragons and steel types. The main aim of the team if you havent picked it up by now is to sweep with dragons after walls and one other sweeper has/have weaken/take out threats to the dragons. So if you can rate and answer some of the questions I have or suggest options that fit the teams criteria that would be awsome. Thank you and with out any further ado...

​

That SAND!​

Yeah I do have a lot of really OU pokes and weather. But dont let it fool you I do like underused pokes as well so please feel free to leave a comment or rate and change a few things :). So these are the common sand guys and they work great with my defensive core helping to chip away with sandstorm damage. Landorus is a great sand abuser but not ridiculous like the mole was (btw I say keep him banned) anyways... So heres the start of my team :D

The BAWWSS
(tyranitar) (m) @ Leftovers
Sassy (+SpD, -Spe)
Sand Stream
252HP/92SpA/164SpD/4Spe
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Pursuit
- Superpower

So yeah I have weather... I know its the first time ive ever used it and I dont really care for it. But what I do care for is the BAWWSS. He is on this team as more of a check for threats rather than a weather inducer. Fire blast is for them steels and ice beam is for them dragons. Pursuit is great. Trapping pokes such as starmie but mostly lati@s. Superpower is for the other T-Tars along with the sneeky 4 speed EV's so it outruns T-Tars which mostly dont have a speed investment. As for the EV's in the sand this guy is a great specia wall and he is just a BAWS with his base stats he can take ost of what is thrown at him. So fairly basic here...
Question: I seriously dont know what to do with this guy... Should I change his set his EV's or should I change the pokemon all together?

It's Fine!
(landorus) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Hasty (+Spd, -def)
Sand Force
4HP/252att/252spd
-Hidden Power (ice)
-U-Turn
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge

Yes! Its Fine! I have the randarosu... This guy is a beast but there is no point re-interting. In the sand an even bigger beast. The Sand force boost and STAB earthquake is just amazing. So the EV's are staple. Ive gone Lonely to maximise attack and with the scarf he has enough speed already and I havent had any problems thus far. Which brings me to the scarf this guy is wearing...standing at base 115 speed he doesnt need to much more speed but I would lack a good scarfer on the team and It's fine. I got one. Onto the moveset. again fairly staple. With the scarf he makes a great scout. Hidden power is great for them big threats like gliscor. Then the edge quake combo takes care of itself. Stone edge is very important to my team because of that stupid moth.. you all know the one. Oh and he walls magnezone extremely important for this team!
Question: What Nature should I go with? Max attack or Speed?

That Deffense:​

As my aim of this team is path the way for a dragon and landors sweep I need some guys who can take heavydragon and steel hits and then 'chip away' (no move pun intended) their HP low enough to take out with the offensive core of the team. Entry hazzards help this Team alot. Especially with dragonites multiscale... Then to phaze the pokes out and rack up the damage is my main strategy. Simple. The synergy between heatran and skarm is great. 4x effective ground has nothing on skarm and fire on skarm has nothing and DAT HEAT! However water has a bit on my walls and my team for that matter but it is resisted by both dragons.

Dat Heat
(Heatran) (m) @ Leftovers
Calm (+SpD, -att)
Flash Fire
252HP/4SpA/242SpD
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

So this is my special wall. Cant get a much better typing to defend against dragons and Other steels (unless they have earthquake). So I like this set again for scouting with protect so I can see what common choice users will lock themselves into. Roar is amazing I love roaring poke's weak to stealth rock out and many of them treaten this team such as dragonite and Volcorona. Lava Plume is there for the burning ability not that I ever get it... So the EV's and nature are there to give tran the best walling abilities possible. Oh and the rocks are there as well. Best move in the game.
Question: Should I go for a more offencive set for tran? With HP ice and earth power maybe?

Outrage?
(Skarmory) (m) @ Leftovers
Impish (+def, -spA)
Sturdy
252HP/4Att/252def
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

As the name suggests this guy is one of the only pokes that can wall outrages. This set is used in tandum with tran to wall dragons and steels and take chunks of HP along with them. However skarm on this team has a nice offensive niche. Brave bird is used for Conkeldur and Virizion even toxicroak which would otherwise destroy this team. This set is set to maximise physical defense and with its typing it resists close to everything physical.If the opposing team has a magnezone.... It's fine I have the randarosu! (yes I love shofu ;D)
Question: Should I change him for another steel, maybe metagross or somehing more offensive like lucario or even magnezone..?

That Offence!​

I love dragons just saying. My favourite type and they are all just boss. As I said before this started out as a mono dragon team and has many many old members which were dragons (R.I.P kingdra <3). So these guys I Like to rip through teams with, one special and one physical they both destroy. Yet are both under rated...

Latiboss
(Latios) (m) @ Expert Belt
Timid (+Spe, -Att)
Levitate
4HP/252SpA/252Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball

I love this set and it works so well. Energy ball catches so many people off guard such as that stupid slug and swampy. It is almost a given that no one will predict the epert belt set. I Have had so many dragon switch ins especially dragonite trying to set up after a draco and after SR damage he is OHKO'd by another. His EVs and set is fairly standard as you can see.
Timid give it the speed it needs to outrun alot of the metagame. His fghting resistance is one of the best things as my team is pretty fighting weak. He can take a hit from terrakion and back with a 4x effective surf. His defences are great and he live Ice beams from walls like politoed (even specs) then hit agin with a 4x effective thunderbolt. So there isnt much
more to say. he works well for finishing weakened foes off and has the speed and defenses to stay there and a great element of suprise.

Hax1
(Haxorus) (m) @ Choice Band
Adamant (+att, -SpA)
Mould breaker
4HP/252Att//4SpD/248Spe
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Double Chop
- Brick Break

Nothing can take outrages from this guy thats ot steel. Nothing! and when all the steels and faster dragons are gone its time to go like a broom. EV's and nature and item are all just to make this guy hit like the truck he was made to. Mouldbreaker and earthquake is a nice niche as wellto hit Rotom-W and other levitators. X-Scissor is for celebi and brick break for T-Tar and well outage is for everything. He is so underused and I love it. He is such a big Threat and Ive had so many battles where ive racked up 6 KO's with this guy.

Questions for my offensive core: Should I have other dragons? If so what ones? Mamoswine?

Thanks for any advice/rate/comments/critisism (nah probably wont thank you for that).
They are all appreciated and if you could answer my that would be great, cheers :)​

 

[Tomahawk]

You might want to consider some more insurance against rain teams. If Specs Politoed comes in and starts spamming Hydro Pump, you'll have some trouble switching in. Once the big guns come out, like Starmie or Rotom-W, you're in some real trouble. Latios is the only thing even remotely able to stop them, and it takes 57% - 67% from Specs Politoed's Hydro Pump just to name an example, while Specs Rotom-W does 63% - 74%. Lacking a recovery move, Latios will get worn down easily. All of your other team members can't switch into such strong double-STAbed rain moves, either due to a weakness or lack of special bulk. Haxorus also resists Water-type moves, but something like Specs Rotom KOes even through the resist.
I don't know how much trouble you have with Gengar, but it seems like it could be tough to handle. Setting up a Substitute against Landorus locked in anything but Stone Edge or Haxorus locked in X-Scissor or Brick Break (rare occasion I know). It doesn't need to setup though all the time, as it can threaten your team even without. However, Landorus and Latios speedtie are unable to try to revenge kill Gengar. Anyways, not much on your team likes taking both a Shadow Ball and a Focus Blast. With Tyranitar, Heatran or Skarmory you might be able to play around Leftovers variants, but I've seen a big rise in SubSplit Gengar lately, which carries Life Orb and thus wrecks your team. Tyranitar is OHKOed even in the sand, both Heatran and Skarmory are easily 2HKOed or OHKOed when below 60-70%. Latios and Haxorus are all too frail to take an attack and thus are swiftly KOed by a Shadow Ball. Landorus can take a Shadow Ball but locking yourself in Stone Edge is just asking Lucario to set up on you.
Speaking of Lucario, it can give your team quite some trouble. If it sets up on Tyranitar, Landorus or Heatran, you will get swept. With Close Combat to take down your defensive mons and ExtremeSpeed to take your down offensive mons, you can't defend yourselves. Tyranitar, Heatran, and Skarmory are all OHKOed by a +2 Close Combat, while Latios, Haxorus, and Landorus fall to a +2 ExtremeSpeed.

First of all, change Tyranitar to a Scarf variant. Your current Tyranitar doesn't seem that good, and Scarf Tyranitar is far more effective at checking threats. You mention that you use Tyranitar to trap Starmie and Latios, but ScarfTar is far more effective at doing that. Tyranitar takes a ton from Starmie's Hydro Pump or Specs Latios's Draco Metero. If you use a Scarf set instead, Tyranitar will be able to outspeed those mons and attack them before they can even move. It also helps against the threats I mentioned before. If you can break Gengar's Sub, Tyranitar can then come in and trap it with Pursuit, getting rid of it guaranteed without getting KOed by Focus Blast first. It also helps against Lucario. While Lucario can still set up on Tyranitar, it will take down one Pokemon at a maximum, as Tyranitar outspeeds Lucario while resisting ExtremeSpeed, so it's able to take it down with Superpower. The EV spread for a Scarf set is quite simple (4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Jolly), and so is the moveset. Crunch / Pursuit / Stone Edge / Superpower is pretty much perfect for providing STAB, coverage, and the ability to trap the likes of Starmie and Gengar.

Next, I suggest that you replace Latios with a Latias. While Latias loses out on some power, I believe that the bulk more than makes up for it. Using Latias gives you another weapon to take on Lucario, but more importantly takes on Drizzle teams. With a huge base 130 Special Defense, Latias has a 296 Special Defense stat uninvested, while its Dragon-typing gives it solid resists to the most powerful moves in rain: Hydro Pump and Thunder. It also takes on Lucario, as it won't fall to a +2 ExtremeSpeed even after Stealth Rock, and can outspeed and OHKO with Hidden Power Fire. Don't think Latias is weak though! Dragon STAB is awesome as always, and 110 base Special Attack when combined with a Modest nature and a Life Orb boost means that Latias effectively reaches a 455 SpA stat, more than enough to wreack havoc. The exact set I'm talking about is:

Hide

Latias @ Life Orb | Levitate
Modest | 152 HP / 176 SpA / 180 Spe
Draco Meteor / Surf / Hidden Power Fire / Recover

The EVs seem a little complicated, but they have a purpose. 152 HP EVs yield 339 HP, providing a healthy amount of bulk and an optimal Life Orb number. The 180 Speed EVs allow Latias to reach a Speed stat of 300 with Hidden Power Fire, which is just enough to outspeed neutral-natured base 100s.

One minor thing you should change is Dual Chop > X-Scissor on Haxorus. X-Scissor is quite useless, as Outrage also does a ton to Celebi. Dual Chop, on the other hand, lets you use a Dragon STAB without locking yourself into it. It also breaks through Dragonite's Multiscale and Substitutes. That way, if you also use a 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe EV spread, Haxorus becomes a decent check to Gengar. Those EVs still allow you to outspeed virtually everything your current spread would bar Jolly Gliscor, but also is able to tank a Shadow Ball from Gengar after Stealth Rock.

Good luck with the team!

 

[UncleHypno]

-Tyranitar: He should use Stheal rock. The first thing you should do is make sure to enter the field opposing the stall to kill the rival.
-Landorus: There's something not everyone knows; HP ice not only get down one IV your speed; is also obtained down one IV in HP and Def. This will help you to kill others Landorus (only for one extra speed-point!).
-Heatran: Seriouly, use Sustitute+Torment instead of Stheal rock+Protec/Roar. Is the legendary TormenTran, scourge of choice-items, lord of the stall. http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/heatran
-Skarmory: ... Yeah xD
-Latios: Use Choice scarf. While Gyarados/Volcarona/Dragonite/Salamence/Haxorus use his dance, switch in Latios. Choice scarf mimic speed-bonus, Latios can attack faster than them because it is faster without speed-bonus. Thunderbolt to Gyarados; Ice beam to Dragonite/Salamence, Landorus-scarf and Gliscor; Draco meteour for Haxorus and... and all!!! xD. Finally, only one: HP Fire to Scizor (specially) and Genesect: U-turn and PURSUIT can kill you; OR Surf to Volcarona (Draco meteour? no?)/Heatran.
-Haxorus: Change Haxorus for Gastrodon with Storm drain. You have three weaknesses to water and only one resistance.


Sorry for my mistakes in diction, do not speak very good English.

 

[BKC]

I don't see why you need to use a Scarf on Landorus. All the threats he checks with the extra speed (QD Volcarona, DD Dragonite, etc) are all handled by your strong defensive core. With this in mind, I'd like you to change his item to Expert Belt. His power is incredible under sand, and the ability to switch moves is excellent since Lando has such great coverage. You can run Smack Down as your rock-type move, since it'll get of Bronzong / opposing Skarmory's ground immunity and let you hit them with Earthquake; if they switch, it'll probably be to something that doesn't like taking EQs, which means Spikes damage, and if they stay in, they get smashed by a super effective hit.

As mentioned, Specs Politoed is not fun to face, but I don't think offensive Latias is the answer, since it is even easier for Scizor to trap than Latios. You might want to try running a moveset of Calm Mind | Recover | Roar | Dragon Pulse with a Timid nature and an EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe, holding Leftovers. With this set, Latias has alot more longevity, making her a better check to Toed, but the main draw is her ability to weaken her own counters with a well-timed Roar; notice how said counters are all grounded (Scizor, Tyranitar, Jirachi, Blissey) and therefore vulnerable to Spikes. This Latias set also gives you a sure-fire counter against CM Virizion and Reuniclus, both of whom the previously suggested LO set struggles with.

I second the ScarfTar suggestion, as it not only checks Lucario, but it also gives you the upper hand against offensive rain teams; you can now kill Starmie and Tornadus regardless of your health, whereas your current set will just die once it drops to 50% or so. It's also always good to pick off a weakened Politoed before it blasts you with a Specs Hydro Pump.

 

[zubzub9]

Thank you all for your comments and rates :)

Tomakawk9:
thanks for a detailed analysis much appreciated. I have inded ben having trouble with rain teams. I usually scare politoed out with T-Tar and its ok a few times due to large SpD investment but a do need something to take on rain teams. Especially rain stall teams... I will definitely try scarf T-Tar I was thinking that. But I dont know If I really want to loose Latias. Latias however seems very valid and well backed up and I will most probably try it in the future. But I like a more offensive style of play which is why I plan to keep latias for now anyway. Besides I dont just want a typical weatherfag team lol. As for landorus I will try the smack down life orb variant.

UncleHypno:
Thanks for a simple rate and easy to follow instructions, much appreciated. I might even try rocks on a scarf set Ive seen it used before and it fooled me good. But I might stay with an expert belt latias for now anyway but a scarf would be good especially if im changing landorus but I will definitely test it in the near future. Yeah I agree on torment tran and it annoys the hell out of me but I might swap it for the gastrodon cause I want to keep a few dragons at least since the team is based around them.

BKC:
Thank you for a good rate, much appreciated. will definitely go for a smack down landorus and a scarf T-Tar. Maybe not latias but I will test it at one stage or another.

So this is where I'm at....
- I am considering having gastrodon over heatran as a replacment special wall. You were all correct in that I suck vs rain teams so this might help.
- I will change the EV's slightly and put double chop on Haxorus
- Going for the smack down Landorus set
- Changing T-Tar so scarf set with Stealth rock???

A few pokes I was thinking of are: Expert belt mew, scarfed salamence, what do you guys think???

 

[UncleHypno]

Well, Jellicent also could take the place of Haxorus. Absorb water and immune to Rapid Spin; but ... the truth is if you want a team based on dragons, I think you're misguided. I would choose something like this:

-Latios, Dragonite and Salamence: Inmune to ground-type and resistant to fight and fire.
-Flygon: Inmune to electric (neutral damage to 4 of 5 pokemons. It is always advisable) and ground types. Resistant to fire.
-Lucario: Resistant to ALL the weaknesses of all dragons. All his weaknesses (Fight, Ground and Fire) are resisted by the dragons. Learn attacks like Ice punch and Dragon pulse to attack other dragons (that can kill you), besides Nasty plot/Sword dance. With a fighting type attack (stab), and a dark-type attack, has full coverage against all types.
-¿Cobalion?: Same types that Lucario, but... he does not learn ice/dragon attacks without Hidden power, which in my opinion is more than enough (no need for more than one attack). Besides calm mind or sword dance.

You see, all the weaknesses of the dragons are supported by steel types, while all the weaknesses of steel types are supported by dragons. All dragons have to fight pokemons attacks that would normally damage the steel type (at least with neutral damage: type dragon), while all steel type Pokemon have attacks to fight all the Pokemon that would hurt the Dragons (especially other dragons; at least with neutral damage: fight-stab and dark/dragon).

 

[zubzub9]

Yeah I agree and as I said this was originally a mono dragon's team and i never intended it to become a sand team. But that's why i originally had two steel types as defensive pokemon to obviously provide type synergy between dragon. So the aim of this theam agin was that I keep dragons for what they are made for, offense I chose guys that could tank dragon hits and provide synergy and i think the tyranitar, gastrodon, skarm combo checks all threats to the dragons i chose. I would go with another dragon as a sweeper but i thought I may aswell abuse the sand if its there with landorus. So that is my validation for my team and thought process on my new team and thanks agin for a comprehensive rate and i will update the team I'm using promptly