Announcement Dirty Little Secret - Shellder Suspect Test

[Envy]

"'I'll keep you my dirty little secret."

​

The LC Council has decided to suspect test Shellder.

Shellder has always been a source of controversy in this tier ever since we got the release of DLC. Counterplay to Shellder varies a lot through both the set it chooses to run itself, and on what specifically the opponent brings for it. With tera existing, Shellder gets to pick and choose its counters to a very high and consistent level. Typical options you could use such as Grookey to counter Shellder are very far from perfect withhaving reliable counterplay into it with many of Shellders options. Ice Shard bypasses typical counterplay such as Endure Vullaby, Grassy Glide Grookey, and Sucker Punch Stunky. Some of the most common counterplay to Shellder is Tera Water, however Shellder can make use of either Tera Rock Rock Blast or options like Tera Blast Grass or Ground to OHKO Tera Water or Steel users. Alongside that, it has multiple defensive Tera's that it can use well. Tera Ghost allows Shellder to be immune to Mienfoo's High Jump Kick and Fake Out. Shellder can also utilize a specially offensive set to get around Endure Vullaby, and secure KO's against more physically defensive options like Mienfoo alongside with having the luxury to run Overcoat with Tera Steel or Poison to be able to safely setup on Foongus and Grookey.

This being said, Shellder is not a flawless Pokémon. Shellder may struggle to get oppurtunities to setup into certain team compositions. Alongside that, the Shellder user does not know what counterplay their opponent to Shellder has and may make mistakes. If Shellder is lacking Ice Shard, Endure Vullaby and Grassy Glide Grookey may be pretty decent outs into it. If Shellder is lacking Rock Blast, Tera Water is very reliable counterplay into it. If Shellder is lacking a water move, Tera Steel is excellent counterplay into it. However, the opponent may not know the full Shellder set until it is too late and they have possibly exhausted all of their resources for Shellder over the course of the game. We encourage anyone who has an opinion to participate in the discussion and meet the requirements to vote!


NOTE: THIS TEST WILL BE USING THE NEW SUSPECT PROCESS!

The instructions to participate in this test are as follows:

• Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in LC before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played LC before the test, full stop.)
• At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
• Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact myself, Hacker, tazz, or a staff member.
• If you have any questions about this new process, feel free to PM me/Hacker/tazz or post here!

The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2800

The period to get the suspect requirements will be <t:1773453600:F> with voting for the suspect going up after. Have fun laddering!

 

[Colin]

I expect that I will probably vote ban on shellder, but I believe there is an argument for it staying in the tier. Shellder with the correct set is broken, but it has to account for priority, it's standard counters, and defensive tera with its 3 move slots and tera. In most games, shellder will not get multiple turns to setup, and is usually not difficult to damage into priority range by attacking it on the setup turn. Crucially, shellder provides counterplay against choice scarfers, which are otherwise very difficult to punish. Shellder teams also struggle to fit as much immediate speed control, due to shellder requiring it's health to setup and therefore not contributing to a defensive core with the exception of the alolashrew and fire type matchups. Ultimately though, I believe that the uncertainty with the potential of terablast (cough, cough) or substitute sets pushes it over the edge of brokenness.

 

[Incognition]

I would like to share my personal thoughts on

This Pokemon is a fantastic late-game cleaner, the main purpose of this shell, but unlike in older gens, it has Tera, which makes it more unpredictable and therefore, threatening.

Because of Shellder, Mudbray is forced to run Tera Water most of the time, and Foongus/Mienfoo have to run Tera Steel/Water as well.

Shellder has the two most obvious moves in Icicle Spear and Rock Blast, utilising its Skill Link ability. However, players will have to guess the remaining sets:

• Ice Shard (to help with +2 Vullaby and other potential priority users)
• Protect or Tera Ghost (to prevent Fake Out pressure from Mienfoo)
• Substitute (usually on something that doesn't want to stay in against Shellder, giving it a free set up and then able to kill whatever it wants)
• Liquidation (hits harder for certain threats + STAB)
• Tera Blast (I recently saw Tera Ground Shellder to deal with steel teras etc)

Shellder can use Protect to scout potential tera types as well (e.g. Mienfoo and Foongus), enabling the player to play around it accordingly.

Shellder is also physically bulky, which helps with setting up, and paired with Pokemon like Memento Stunky, can be really difficult to deal with if you're not prepared.

Like any Pokemon, there are definitely ways around it, for example, Thunder Wave/Encore Tinkatink, predicting the correct tera type, scarf mons which outspeed +2 Shellder etc.

Although the bans are justifiable, I feel that Magby and Torchic were easier to play around than Shellder to an extent, and they were both banned. I personally think the meta will change and become healthier with different tera styles if this Pokemon were to be banned.

My proposal: BAN

 

[xzeroxman]

I would like to share my personal thoughts on

This Pokemon is a fantastic late-game cleaner, the main purpose of this shell, but unlike in older gens, it has Tera, which makes it more unpredictable and therefore, threatening.

Because of Shellder, Mudbray is forced to run Tera Water most of the time, and Foongus/Mienfoo have to run Tera Steel/Water as well.

Shellder has the two most obvious moves in Icicle Spear and Rock Blast, utilising its Skill Link ability. However, players will have to guess the remaining sets:

• Ice Shard (to help with +2 Vullaby and other potential priority users)
• Protect or Tera Ghost (to prevent Fake Out pressure from Mienfoo)
• Substitute (usually on something that doesn't want to stay in against Shellder, giving it a free set up and then able to kill whatever it wants)
• Liquidation (hits harder for certain threats + STAB)
• Tera Blast (I recently saw Tera Ground Shellder to deal with steel teras etc)

Shellder can use Protect to scout potential tera types as well (e.g. Mienfoo and Foongus), enabling the player to play around it accordingly.

Shellder is also physically bulky, which helps with setting up, and paired with Pokemon like Memento Stunky, can be really difficult to deal with if you're not prepared.

Like any Pokemon, there are definitely ways around it, for example, Thunder Wave/Encore Tinkatink, predicting the correct tera type, scarf mons which outspeed +2 Shellder etc.

Although the bans are justifiable, I feel that Magby and Torchic were easier to play around than Shellder to an extent, and they were both banned. I personally think the meta will change and become healthier with different tera styles if this Pokemon were to be banned.

My proposal: BAN

I agree that shellder needs to go. It is yet another offensive tera abuser that abuses its set vairation despite it's more up-front drawbacks. I'm not even sure that getting rid of tera blast would fix the issue in the current state (unless some mons where allowed back in because of the change). I think it just forces too many mons to be specific tera types and conserve tera defensively around what moves they *might* have. I think shellder leaving will open up opportunities for more mons to thrive and we'll see an increase in both team and tera diversity.

 

[genisu]

Shellder is fucking broken and has been since dlc 1 I've been saying this, no matter what ur team is there is a shelter set that 6-0s u and u end up set guessing and praying... Also forces all teams to carry 2-3 checks so will be interesting to see new builds. -biggest shellder abuser. P.S ban np on vullaby this set is so stupid like it's a 2hko into everything ur js fishing set/tera/rng cuz u don't have skill

 

[xzeroxman]

Shellder is fucking broken and has been since dlc 1 I've been saying this, no matter what ur team is there is a shelter set that 6-0s u and u end up set guessing and praying... Also forces all teams to carry 2-3 checks so will be interesting to see new builds. -biggest shellder abuser. P.S ban np on vullaby this set is so stupid like it's a 2hko into everything ur js fishing set/tera/rng cuz u don't have skill

There is no way they complex that lol