Donphan [QC 0/3]

Starchomp

Starchomp

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Still OU
Overview
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  • One of the few pokemon to get both stealth rock and rapid spin.
  • checks many physical rock type threats such as Terrakion, non-ice beam Tyranitar, Mega Charizard
  • can check Aegislash with an Assault Vest
  • can threaten ghost-types that try to spin block with knock off
  • generally outclassed by Excadrill as a spinner and Hippowdon as a bulky ground type, don't use it unless you need
  • Sun teams, where Donphan was best, got nerfed

Assault Vest
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name: Assault Vest
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Ice Shard / Rock Slide
ability: Sturdy
item: Assault Vest
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
nature: Impish

Moves
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  • Rapid Spin as usual because its the only reason to use Donphan
  • Earthquake for powerful STAB
  • Knock Off to hit those pesky Ghost Types, plus nails Psychic types like the Latis, which it can now stay in against
  • Last slot is preference, Ice Shard for priority and smacking many Dragon Types, or Rock Slide to hit Flying Types harder

Set Details
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  • With an Assault Vest, Donphan can patch up its measly special defense, while still be able to check physical threats
  • The EVs here allow Donphan to take special hits well while still being able to soak up physical attacks
  • Walls stuff like Mixed Aegislash and Thundurus-I in addition to many physical threats
  • A more offensive spread of 252 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def with an Adamant Nature could be used to hit the stuff you check harder.

Usage Tips
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  • Spin away those hazards
  • Predict an incoming ghost switch and nail it with knock off
  • Can switch in on stuff like Charizard X, Terrakion, and, thanks to assault vest, even certain special attackers
  • Be warned, Donphan will be warn down quickly since he has no reliable recovery

Team Options
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  • pairs well with SR weak Pokemon like Talonflame and Volcarona
  • Donphan's ability to tank Rock type attacks and check tyranitar makes it a valuable partner to Charizard-Y
  • You can put it in a Steel/Ground/Water Core
  • Likes Wish passers such as Clefable

Other Options
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  • A leftovers set with Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock can be used, but AV Donphan is generally better able to support his team
  • Choice Band set with Adamant 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe can be scary, though rapid spinning will be more difficult
  • Head Smash to wreck Talonflame
  • Play Rough to massively damage Fighting, Dragon, and Dark Types
  • Seed Bomb to hit bulky waters
  • Fire Fang to hit skarmory and ferrothorn
  • Endeavor + Sturdy + Ice Shard can net you a cheese kill if you predict correctly

Checks & Counters
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  • When trying to check Donphan, be careful with your ghost types, as most take heavy damage from a base 92.5 Dark move that also removes their item.
  • Sableye takes little from Knock off and can burn
  • Mega Venusaur laughs at Earthquake and Knock Off and can put it to sleep or 2HKO with Giga Drain
  • Gourgeist-H
  • Breloom can put it to sleep
  • Kyurem-B can break through sturdy and go straight for the kill
  • Break Sturdy with Entry Hazards
 
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Remove Ice Shard and replace it with Knock Off. Even with Ice Shard you are playing with an extremely inferior Excadrill and Ice Shard is piss weak without STAB. I would even argue Rock Slide and Stone Edge being better for it. Knock Off gives it something very unique over Excadrill and emphasis on the extra annoyance it can provide to spin blockers.

This is also another reason I would run Choice Band. Choice Band Knock Off does a lot to the spin blockers.

252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 296-350 (73.2 - 86.6%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 282-332 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 206-244 (55 - 65.2%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist- Small: 206-244 (65.6 - 77.7%)

Also despite lacking Mold Breaker, Donphan does have the advantage that, in some instances, Steel-typing can work against a team (i.e. being more prone to Earthquake). I wouldn't exactly call Donphan OU material... but if you're going to use Donphan use it for its niches over Excadrill. Though Choice Band is cutting close, Knock Off at least makes Donphan a scary spinner and Choice Band can really help out with it. Seed Bomb and Fire Fang access means game over for Jellicent / Grass-Ghost duo.

- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Earthquake

Would be the set I would use IMO. With Leftovers. If QC wants Choice Band...

- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Ice Fang
- Knock Off
 
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Colonel M said:
Remove Ice Shard and replace it with Knock Off. Even with Ice Shard you are playing with an extremely inferior Excadrill and Ice Shard is piss weak without STAB. I would even argue Rock Slide and Stone Edge being better for it. Knock Off gives it something very unique over Excadrill and emphasis on the extra annoyance it can provide to spin blockers.

This is also another reason I would run Choice Band. Choice Band Knock Off does a lot to the spin blockers.

252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 296-350 (73.2 - 86.6%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 282-332 (75.4 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 206-244 (55 - 65.2%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Small: 206-244 (65.6 - 77.7%)

Also despite lacking Mold Breaker, Donphan does have the advantage that, in some instances, Steel-typing can work backwards in some situations (i.e. being more prone to Earthquake). I wouldn't exactly call Donphan OU material... but if you're going to use Donphan use it for its niches over Excadrill. Though Choice Band is cutting close, Knock Off at least makes Donphan a scary spinner and Choice Band can really help out with it. Seed Bomb and Fire Fang access means game over for Jellicent / Grass-Ghost duo.

- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Earthquake

Would be the set I would use IMO. With Leftovers. If QC wants Choice Band...

- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Ice Fang
- Knock Off
Click to expand...
OK, I shall implement these. thank you
 
I was wondering if an Assault Vest set might be an option? You lose out on Stealth Rocks, but gain the ability to Rapid Spin and/or Knock Off, potentially, a few more times with your improved bulk. The EVs below are extremely lazy.

Nature: Impish
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: (lazy) 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp.Def
Item: Assault Vest

Earthquake
Rapid Spin
Play Rough
Knock Off
 
I wouldn't call AV too hot of an option, but if you were going to do it Play Rough would only be used if you're terribly afraid of Goodra and Mix Mega Chomp - but Ice Fang covers the latter just fine.

- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Fang
- Knock Off

Is how I would roll. One notable calculation:

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 120-143 (37.3 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Couple others:

252 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 144-171 (44.8 -53.2%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 181-214 (56.3 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Donphan really isn't too tanky though and Ground is really eh at taking Special Attacks. OO material IMO.
 
Yeah, Assault Vest could maybe work if you don't need Stealth Rocks or already have a Stealth Rocker as the only thing you'd be missing out on is leftovers recovery. It would surprise a lot of special attackers. So I'll add it to other options.
 
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I still hate this thing, but apparently Assault Vest is one of, if not the, best set this can use. I'd update the set to reflect this change.
 
Go ahead and move 4 EVs from HP to Def on the Assault Vest set. This will cause Donphan to take one less point of damage from Stealth Rock and such (since Donphan's maximum HP is divisible by 16), and since the set isn't carrying Leftovers, you don't have to worry about losing a point of Leftovers recovery.
 
Popping in to say that Donphan does not learn Ice Fang by any means. You're stuck with Ice Shard for any sort of Ice coverage.
 
Yeah i agree that the AV set should be Donphan's only set, as Donphan really needs the added special bulk to take on Aegislash. The ideal EV spread could be a little tricky to find, as Donphan wants both physical bulk to check Mega Char X, Terrakion, and Talonflame (Pokemon that Excadrill can't) and special bulk to deal with Aegislash.
 
I think I'll just put assault vest first because I think Donphan can be both a physical and special tank (Even if it is outclassed by hippowdon), and there is no way donphan is taking on CB talonflame and the like with assault vest unless you invest in a lot of physical bulk. also means it can't lay down stealth rocks.
 
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Here is a possible EV spread for the AV set:

252 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def with Adamant nature

What this spread does:

- +1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Donphan: 304-358 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

while Donphan OHKOes back with EQ after Flare Blitz recoil:

- 188+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 296-350 (99.3 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

- 252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 130-154 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

while Donphan does back with a combo of Knock Off and Ice Shard:

- 188+ Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 141-166 (47 - 55.3%)
- 188+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 116-138 (38.6 - 46%)

which is a sure 2HKO after SR.

You fare ok even vs LO Thundurus without SR up:

- 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 169-200 (44 - 52%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO

Also, you can take one LO Shadow Ball from Aegislash for ~60% damage and do back 87% minimum, which is a OHKO after LO recoil most of the time, and even if it isn't you can just follow up with an Ice Shard. However, Aegislash would probably outspeed and 2HKO with Shadow Ball before Donphan manages to hit with EQ, so maybe use a bit of Speed?
 
I personally don't want to see a set that isn't Assault Vest. Donphan is outclassed otherwise, as there are far better options to consider.
 
Second moveset usage tip quote:

"Once you switch in on the Terrakion attack, look at the opponent’s team. If they have a ghost type, they will likely switch it in predicting Rapid Spin. They will be in for a huge surprise when they lose a chunk of their health to a Knock Off."

Then again, you might be in for an even bigger surprise when you suddenly have to face a +1 Terrakion. Prediction goes both ways, so you shouldn't really advertise the use of Knock Off against something that really doesn't mind it. Further to the point, Terrakion isn't really as relevant in OU as it used to be, so it propably shouldn't be explicitly mentioned. You could correct the statement to something like: Knock Off can be used against the spinblockers that like to switch against Donphan.
 
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