SS OU Double Dragon Balance ft. Latios + Garchomp

[vNatFly]

Introduction

Hi all, you might have seen me around here posting RMT's on some of my teams I think you all might like. I think this might be my 6th.. maybe 7th RMT? I completely lost count. Also, keep in mind I am no expert.. infact I still have a lot to learn, I am fairly new to Pokemon Showdown but I have played other Pokemon games. BUT, I'm sure you clicked this RMT to see the team, not to see me ramble on so I'll just shut up.



Teambuilding Process



The main core. This is one of my favorite cores of how obsurdly strong the two are. Latios beats up most of the tier and Garchomp just has to beat up Heatran, Blissey and such for it.



As you can tell, the Dragons can't reliably hit Corviknight and Mandibuzz (Mystical Fire Latios is not an answer, Corviknight swallows the hit and swaps in to a Fire-resist then Latios can be easily abused). The Specs Koko set I am running 0hko's both while providing momentum for the team by spamming Volt Switch AND dealing significant damage, but most importantly getting in Latios or Garchomp.



There isn't much to write about this, sorry. But it is obvious why it's here and that is because of Tapu Lele and Rillaboom. It doesn't take a lot to notice my stunning weakness to them without the Scizor. Scizor also provides momentum and makes a "pivot core" with Tapu Koko.



I am not sure if I made the right play here, but I needed a defensive backbone and I went with "BlissBro" as it lets me brainlessly throw around Future Sight's and Teleport in the opponent's face. Blissey deals with the Special Attackers that will overwhelm Slowbro.

Sets



Latios @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Trick
- Mystical Fire / Aura Sphere

This is a very, very common Latios set. If you haven't seen this once, I wouldn't believe you. It runs Specs to deal the most damage possible. A Life Orb can be ran if you are concerned about not being able to freely switch moves. I settled with Choice Specs because I absolutely hate being chipped by that Life Orb recoil on Latios. Latios is mostly a hit-and-go kind of Pokemon with Draco Meteor as it will be forced out due to it's SpA drop. Psychic is my second STAB move and is pretty much only used against Psychic-weak targets or other things that resist and/or immune to Draco Meteor. Mystical Fire is for Metal-types like Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Corviknight etc. All three resist both your STAB attacks which is very bad, fortunately we can still 2hko the Pokemon listed above with Mystical Fire (0hko's Ferrothorn). I don't recommend it, but Aura Sphere can be ran over Mystical FIre specifically for Heatran and Tyranitar which I don't see being worth it on a team like this as we have Garchomp that checks both.



Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Scale Shot

Another very common set. It is a OU Swords Dance set you see about 13,111,096 times a day. As much as I like SD Garchomp, it's disgusting Dragon STAB makes me want to throw up. First, it is a 90 AC move, gross. Second, you need god tier RNG to actually hit Scale Shot five times which is also annoying as hell. I sometimes just get tempted to run Dragon Claw, it's not like Scale Shot hits 4+ times consistently or if hits at all. Anyway, I am running Earthquake because it is a strong, accurate STAB move pretty much every Garchomp will run. It is used to check Heatran and many, many more Pokemon (heatran most importantly). Stone Edge is another inconsistent move BUT without it I am walled by Moltress, Mandibuzz and other birds so it is kind of mandatory I guess.



Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Grass Knot
- Dazzling Gleam

This is a Choice Specs / All-out attacker Tapu Koko set. The focus on this set is to just spam Volt Switch (when Ground-types are removed) and gain momentum while dealing some nice damage on whatever is coming in (shut up Blissey). Thunderbolt is my main STAB move as it hits pretty hard as Electric Terrain is boosting it alongside the Choice Specs. Dazzling Gleam is my other STAB move that hits most Dragons that can comfortably switch in to the Electric moves. Grass Knot is for common Swampert switch ins, which I can comfortably 0hko.



Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

I decided to use a SpD set to handle Tapu Lele as best as I can. Bullet Punch is being used because it is priority to pick off weakened targets AND Bullet Punch is actually boosted by Scizor's Technician (boosted by 1.5x when the bp of the move you are using is ≤ 60) and STAB which makes it pretty strong. Roost and Heavy-Duty Boots to increase it's Longetivity. U-turn can pivot out of unfavorable match ups while gaining momentum. I am running Defog over Knock Off. The Knock Off would've been nice to have, but I needed to save slots and couldn't afford adding a defogger.



Blissey @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

This is a standard Blissey set that is running Stealth Rock because I have no other way to set up Hazards on this team. Toxic is ran to badly cripple something and potentially Toxic stall it out. Blissey practically walls 95% of Special Attackers and eats them alive. There isn't much to say about Blissey because everybody runs the exact same set.



Slowbro @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Future Sight
- Teleport

This a very plain Slowbro set. It is running Scald because it is it's STAB move and there is a 100% chance slim chance that you burn the opponent. Future Sight + Teleport is the best part about Slowbro to be honest. Usually how you play with this is you set up Future Sight and Teleport out getting free Regenerator recovery and then you can freely go in to a wallbreaker and deal heavy damage followed by the Future Sight attack. Slack Off is extra recovery but it really isn't used that often. Rocky Helmet is ran to make Landorus-T think twice about using Slowbro as U-turn fodder.

Threatlist

If it is running the exact same set I am running, I lose to this thing.. ALTHOUGH, if it is not running Trick, Blissey can swap in. If it is running Trick/Aura Sphere/Draco Meteor/Psychic then Scizor can comfortably swap in.

im sorry, not many are coming to mind right now but it would be helpful if you guys could point some out :)

Shoutouts

ausma - It'd be pretty stupid to not put you at the top of the list as you inspired me to make a Double Dragon team (and drastically helped improve/build it) and for responding in like half a minute when I ask you a question LMAO. Thank you :)

glava222 - Thank you for always being there when I need you, and being open to looking at my bizarre teams lol. Thanks bro :)

the two people I listed above have insane work ethics, and are amazing people in general so this is my way of saying thank you for what they do :)
sorry it wasn't that long i need sleep.

Outro

Looks like you made it to the bottom! Nice! If you guys could give your opinions on how you feel about the team, or what needs to be changed, feel free to say that down below. I think I should finish this RMT here. I hope it wasn't THAT boring to read. Feel free to DM if you prefer to tell me there or you want to just tell me something in general. See you guys around :)​

 

[Smashburn]

For your team, I'd consider more of an offensive backbone than a defensive one for a dragon core. Historically, dragon cores have been awful at defending but offensively great, and being as the team is more offensively based and lacking in a number of aspects, the team should focus as such.

Firstly, immediately notice that Garchomp is a hard threat as once it gets up a SD or SC by chance you can no longer rely on Latios, Garchomp, or Koko to KO it. This then leaves you with Blissey, Scizor, and Slowbro, who cannot do much against it outside of praying for a burn. At +2 Scizor and Blissey are foddered off, and Slowbro is 2HKO by the +2 Earthquake. Also, I don't think having two specs mons are good for the team, you are running specs Koko which is not optimal, but it's okay-ish, and then you have Latios who is necessary for speed control as scarf. Without a form of speed control, the team functions as less of a dragon core and more as a weak BO with choice locks.

It's also note worthy that your only electric resist hates taking a Knock Off or SpA hit, and is worn down by LO recoil and hazards which notably are not removed by Scizor most often, as threats like Heatran pick it apart, still making it a threat to the team because it gradually breaks your team down with common partners (not specified for the sake of simplistic criticism, AKA I'm too lazy to analyze that rn).

Lastly, the team has 1 ground immunity that hates status which it can't heal up, making it very predictable.

 

[vNatFly]

For your team, I'd consider more of an offensive backbone than a defensive one for a dragon core. Historically, dragon cores have been awful at defending but offensively great, and being as the team is more offensively based and lacking in a number of aspects, the team should focus as such.

Firstly, immediately notice that Garchomp is a hard threat as once it gets up a SD or SC by chance you can no longer rely on Latios, Garchomp, or Koko to KO it. This then leaves you with Blissey, Scizor, and Slowbro, who cannot do much against it outside of praying for a burn. At +2 Scizor and Blissey are foddered off, and Slowbro is 2HKO by the +2 Earthquake. Also, I don't think having two specs mons are good for the team, you are running specs Koko which is not optimal, but it's okay-ish, and then you have Latios who is necessary for speed control as scarf. Without a form of speed control, the team functions as less of a dragon core and more as a weak BO with choice locks.

It's also note worthy that your only electric resist hates taking a Knock Off or SpA hit, and is worn down by LO recoil and hazards which notably are not removed by Scizor most often, as threats like Heatran pick it apart, still making it a threat to the team because it gradually breaks your team down with common partners (not specified for the sake of simplistic criticism, AKA I'm too lazy to analyze that rn).

Lastly, the team has 1 ground immunity that hates status which it can't heal up, making it very predictable.

I am not sure what you mean by offensive backbone to be honest, can you be a little more specific? I also do not really know what you are saying to do with the Garchomp issue. Slowbro can come in as it sets up and Teleport out in to Koko or Burn haxx it with Scald. I never really had to stress about Garchomp on this team. ALSO, I think you may be right about the "two specs users" thing. I will change the Specs Koko set from ---> I was also very confused how you were telling me to switch to Scarf Latios when Latios isn't slow by any means, Tapu Koko is pretty fast, Garchomp is in an.. ok speed tier. I do not see this team struggling with speed issues. Also, tysm for your response :)

EDIT: how do you feel abt chomp over ?

 

[Red Raven]

I would just consider dropping Tapu Koko for Tornadus Therian, the utility set that is. My reasoning would that you don't need Tapu Koko at all. Tornadus would allow you to have an emergency switch in to Rillaboom and actually kill it while allowing you to maintain the switch move Koko has. With defog on Tornadus, you can go sd on Scizor and allow you to spam u turn as much as you need, maybe even spamming bullet punch against metal birds until they run out of roost pp

Also, don't use leftovers on Garchomp. You really need that extra power otherwise you will fall short of kills you should have had

 

[vNatFly]

I would just consider dropping Tapu Koko for Tornadus Therian, the utility set that is. My reasoning would that you don't need Tapu Koko at all. Tornadus would allow you to have an emergency switch in to Rillaboom and actually kill it while allowing you to maintain the switch move Koko has. With defog on Tornadus, you can go sd on Scizor and allow you to spam u turn as much as you need, maybe even spamming bullet punch against metal birds until they run out of roost pp

Also, don't use leftovers on Garchomp. You really need that extra power otherwise you will fall short of kills you should have had

Nice call, this might seem really stupid but I kind of swore to myself to never use that thing again. 70% AC STAB is very inaccurate. I have lost way to many games due to it. BTW, even if I were to use that, I wouldn't really be able to hit or that well. I also like here as it makes my team a lot faster and another way to kill Garchomp. Ty for the suggestion though! Also, there is no need for a emergency switch in to Rillaboom when there is a that can pretty much stomach any hit thrown out at it. just gets 2hko'd so I don't really see it being a swap in. Also, I agree with on Garchomp but at this point I am getting a bit confused because lots of people are giving different reasons and different opinions on what item to run on Chomp so I simply went with the Smogon Sample one.

 

[Smashburn]

I am not sure what you mean by offensive backbone to be honest, can you be a little more specific? I also do not really know what you are saying to do with the Garchomp issue. Slowbro can come in as it sets up and Teleport out in to Koko or Burn haxx it with Scald. I never really had to stress about Garchomp on this team. ALSO, I think you may be right about the "two specs users" thing. I will change the Specs Koko set from ---> I was also very confused how you were telling me to switch to Scarf Latios when Latios isn't slow by any means, Tapu Koko is pretty fast, Garchomp is in an.. ok speed tier. I do not see this team struggling with speed issues. Also, tysm for your response :)

EDIT: how do you feel abt chomp over ?

Okay, I'll address these in order.

1. Offensive backbones are a term for the rest of the team put bluntly, just more offensively based than defensive. Like I had said, Dragon cores are historically bad at playing defensive, rather better in a more offensively natured team playing defense through offense. For an example of this, look back to BW OU DragMag teams, which relied on the offensive power of Dragon type moves/mons and checking the only resist to them (steel types) and the only effective typing against them (dragon and ice) using Magnezone and other supports.

2. When I was describing why Garchomp was an issue, I mentioned that it was by chance in the event that Garchomp gets up either/both an SC / SD at which it becomes a threat. The magnified x1.5 speed outspeeds the entire team (as does any scarf mon), which is where I also talked about speed issues. When designing a team, the only concern for speed shouldn't just be base speed, as scarfers and setup threats exist, like Garchomp.

3. I would say that Leftovers > LO is not a good change (I'm not sure how you use the < and > but I use it to indicate greater than or less than in terms of use, rather than arrows). Garchomp needs the offensive power to function, without it, Garchomp struggles. If you wanted to, however, you could redo the team and try for defensive Chomp.

[P.S]

How do you do the sprite thing, I always forget lmao

(ss/:(mon name here):) correct?

 

[vNatFly]

Okay, I'll address these in order.

1. Offensive backbones are a term for the rest of the team put bluntly, just more offensively based than defensive. Like I had said, Dragon cores are historically bad at playing defensive, rather better in a more offensively natured team playing defense through offense. For an example of this, look back to BW OU DragMag teams, which relied on the offensive power of Dragon type moves/mons and checking the only resist to them (steel types) and the only effective typing against them (dragon and ice) using Magnezone and other supports.

2. When I was describing why Garchomp was an issue, I mentioned that it was by chance in the event that Garchomp gets up either/both an SC / SD at which it becomes a threat. The magnified x1.5 speed outspeeds the entire team (as does any scarf mon), which is where I also talked about speed issues. When designing a team, the only concern for speed shouldn't just be base speed, as scarfers and setup threats exist, like Garchomp.

3. I would say that Leftovers > LO is not a good change (I'm not sure how you use the < and > but I use it to indicate greater than or less than in terms of use, rather than arrows). Garchomp needs the offensive power to function, without it, Garchomp struggles. If you wanted to, however, you could redo the team and try for defensive Chomp.

[P.S]

How do you do the sprite thing, I always forget lmao

(ss/:(mon name here):) correct?

Oh, thank you! That kind of cleared it up, I will try to change BlissBro with somethong else more offensive.

:(pokemon): =
:(ss/pokemon): =

obviously remove paranthesis when typing it out.

 

[Red Raven]

Nice call, this might seem really stupid but I kind of swore to myself to never use that thing again. 70% AC STAB is very inaccurate. I have lost way to many games due to it. BTW, even if I were to use that, I wouldn't really be able to hit or that well. I also like here as it makes my team a lot faster and another way to kill Garchomp. Ty for the suggestion though! Also, there is no need for a emergency switch in to Rillaboom when there is a that can pretty much stomach any hit thrown out at it. just gets 2hko'd so I don't really see it being a swap in. Also, I agree with on Garchomp but at this point I am getting a bit confused because lots of people are giving different reasons and different opinions on what item to run on Chomp so I simply went with the Smogon Sample one.

Scizor actually loses to sd + fighting type move Rillaboom. I guess you're fine if it has superpower but drain punch is a different story. Don't forget, Rillaboom is still faster than Scizor

Stone edge on Garchomp just removes Mandibuzz from existence and I don't really think they would run max hp max def just for Garchomp

Uh what?

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 142-168 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 247-291 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Superpower vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor: 360-424 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Rillaboom can only use glide or sd on one turn and neither of those moves instantly kill Tornadus Therian. It's also a very fast mon so you're not really missing out on that much speed. Hurricane accuracy does suck but you pretty much force out Rillaboom anyway since it's needed to deal with Garchomp. Although, I guess you could use life orb 3 attacks on Latios so you have a switch in to Rillaboom

Honestly I would only use leftovers on Garchomp if I'm using it on a sand team. You absolutely need that firepower. Since you have Scizor and Garchomp, you can pretty much adjust which mon you want to sweep or wall break since both are very good at it

 

[vNatFly]

Scizor actually loses to sd + fighting type move Rillaboom. I guess you're fine if it has superpower but drain punch is a different story. Don't forget, Rillaboom is still faster than Scizor

Stone edge on Garchomp just removes Mandibuzz from existence and I don't really think they would run max hp max def just for Garchomp

Uh what?

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 142-168 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 247-291 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Superpower vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor: 360-424 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Rillaboom can only use glide or sd on one turn and neither of those moves instantly kill Tornadus Therian. It's also a very fast mon so you're not really missing out on that much speed. Hurricane accuracy does suck but you pretty much force out Rillaboom anyway since it's needed to deal with Garchomp. Although, I guess you could use life orb 3 attacks on Latios so you have a switch in to Rillaboom

Honestly I would only use leftovers on Garchomp if I'm using it on a sand team. You absolutely need that firepower. Since you have Scizor and Garchomp, you can pretty much adjust which mon you want to sweep or wall break since both are very good at it

Oh sorry, I completely forgot about Stone Edge smacking (btw it doesnt ohko it does like 90ish percent.. i think). But whats with ? Doesn't it wall my team without ? That is a pretty big issue. And with the problem, I it could cause problems if it is LO Superpower. Luckily, most I am running in to are Banded with the regular moveset (no fighting moves). If it is this serious, and I absolutely need , I could change my defensive things to something like and so I can apply pressure against Corviknight and I do not have to be forced to run Tapu Koko anymore. Sorry if I am making it confusing as I am getting confused myself..

EDIT: What Torn-T set are your referring to btw?

Tornadus-Therian @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Taunt
- U turn
- Hurricane

this one?​

 

[Red Raven]

Ferrothorn is not a good answer to Rillaboom. You end up stacking Heatran vulnerability and you still lose to sd + fighting type Rilla. You can also barely kill Rillaboom so that's another issue

Rotom Heat is also not a good pick. Rillaboom commonly runs knock off which is something Rotom absolutely hates. That's why I suggested Tornadus Therian

That's the fun thing about Corviknight. It walls Scizor but cannot kill it as well. You can pretty much just spam sd and bullet punch your way until it runs out of roosts and believe me, winning like this is incredibly amusing. I've even lost to this once. Depending on the opponent's team, you can also pretty much ruin Corviknight with trick

Any Tornadus set will do as long as it has 248 HP, hurricane and defog. That set is just one I prefer but knock off is usually better since Tornadus is so good at it

 

[vNatFly]

Ferrothorn is not a good answer to Rillaboom. You end up stacking Heatran vulnerability and you still lose to sd + fighting type Rilla. You can also barely kill Rillaboom so that's another issue

Rotom Heat is also not a good pick. Rillaboom commonly runs knock off which is something Rotom absolutely hates. That's why I suggested Tornadus Therian

That's the fun thing about Corviknight. It walls Scizor but cannot kill it as well. You can pretty much just spam sd and bullet punch your way until it runs out of roosts and believe me, winning like this is incredibly amusing. I've even lost to this once. Depending on the opponent's team, you can also pretty much ruin Corviknight with trick

Any Tornadus set will do as long as it has 248 HP, hurricane and defog. That set is just one I prefer but knock off is usually better since Tornadus is so good at it

I mean.. it works but I don't have a lot of patience when it comes to Pokemon which is why I quit using stall because it was taking up too much of my time and it wasn't worth it. By the way, I wasn't saying was supposed to be an answer to . I added it so It could form a backbone with . Tell you what, for now, I will try using the original team I posted against Rillaboom and see how many SD Superpower Rillaboom's I come across and if it gets bad, will take Tapu Koko's place. Thanks :)

 

[glava222]

just remember if you are swapping out blissey to put something in that can handle specs pult, as if it's carrying fire coverage, it can just wreck everything on your team except for garchomp that already has a speed boost. pult in general is quite scary as it can outspeed and use dragon STABS to KO your dragons, burn or KO scizor depending on set, and koko doesn't like taking neutral ghost STABS, and without blissey you don't really have a good switch in