Doubles: The Serene Setup.

BARON9

Don't Bother Rating - I overlooked a key aspect in the Pokedex. Jirachi doesn't learn Rock Slide - If a mod could lock this, that would be great.

This is a conceptual doubles team that I have based around one pokemon - Jirachi. My idea is to create a team of:

2 Support Flinchers
2 Physical Sweepers (That can setup)
2 Special Sweepers (That can setup)

I would use this for PBR and choose 4 out of the 6 pokemon. The following are in no particular order - I don't send them out in the order that I display on this thread.


THE SERENE SETUP

jirachi.png

Jirachi@Wide Lens/Leftovers
Bold - Serene Grace
EV: 252 HP/76 Def/86 Sp Def/96 Speed
-Icy Wind
-Rock Slide
-Wish
-Protect/Helping Hand

I simply love this pokemon because of one thing: Serene Grace. This Jirachi EV spread is not designed for attacking, even though it has two offensive moves. Icy Wind lowers both of the opponents speed stats one level. Jirachi has enough EVs in speed to outspeed every pokemon up to base 130 after 1 Icy Wind. From here on, use Rock Slide for a 60% flinch rate on BOTH pokemon! This provides excellent annoyance support while its partner sets up for a sweep. Wish is to heal (primarily) my other support pokemon and Wide Lens ensures Icy Wind and Rock Slide will always hit (It is a bummer if it misses). Now who would work well as a back up flincher for Jirachi? Hmmmm...I remember seeing an interesting thread about this duo recently. :)

togekiss.png

Togekiss@Leftovers
Calm - Serene Grace
EV: 252 HP/6 Def/252 Sp Def
-Thunder Wave
-Air Slash
-Wish
-Encore/Safeguard

As explained in Eersnot's thread, this duo can be very annoying and effective. Keep in mind, I don't send them out at the same time because that takes away the purpose of this team. Togekiss and Jirachi can Wish pass to each other and provide flinch/paralysis support for their partner. Encore is useful, but Safeguard would prevent the party from status afflictions.


PHYSICAL SWEEPERS

gyarados.png

Gyarados@Wacan Berry
Adamant - Intimidate
EV: 216 HP/16 Atk/176 Def/100 Speed
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Return
-Stone Edge/Taunt

Gyara is an excellent starter pokemon to pair with Jirachi/Togekiss. It can take a few hits and provides Intimidate for party durability. Basically, DD up until you see fit, then destroy everything with Waterfall and Return (save Empoleon and Shedinja). Stone Edge provides coverage, but Taunt is too much fun to pass up.

lucario.png

Lucario@Expert Belt
Adamant - Inner Focus
EV: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
-Swords Dance
-Extremespeed
-Close Combat
-Crunch

Honestly, I have never used a Luke before. I'm excited to see how well this will clean up the loose ends after a SD. Lucario is a great starting poke if I suspect a Fake Out (a lot of people forget about its ability for some reason :). I prefer to keep this guy on hold until most of the opponent's team is hurting.


SPECIAL SWEEPERS

raikou.png

Raikou@Leftovers
Timid - Pressure
EV: 64 HP/96 Def/96 Sp Att/252 Speed
-Calm Mind
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Protect

Yes, I am using CM Raikou! I simply love this thing. I have given it enough defensive EVs to survive selected EQs and Protect is always useful in doubles. Tbolt/HP Ice for coverage. Substitute is a possibility, but I'm not a huge fan of it in doubles.

porygonZ.png

Porygon-Z@Wise Glasses
Modest - Adaptability
EV: 6 HP/252 Sp Att/252 Speed
-Nasty Plot
-Tri Attack
-Dark Pulse
-HP Ground

Finally, without speed being a major issue (thanks to Icy Wind), Porygon-Z can feel free to set up a Nasty Plot and sweep away! HP ground is there because I have no EQ users on my team and it hurts Heatran badly.

So there is my strategy...Flinch while setting up, then sweep away! I know that scarf-users are more of a threat here, but Icy Wind can wear them down. Give me some feedback - this is, after all, conceptual. :)

*Credit to arkeis.com for artwork
 
What is your lead? You claim that Togekiss and Jirachi won't be out at the same time, but you posted them in what appears to be your lead position. I don't see them as an exactly effective lead. At least give Togekiss Protect over Wish, as Wish isn't very effective in Doubles, and it will give you a little synergy with Icy Wind I guess.

I would not base your strategy around Icy Wind. Icy Wind is not likely to be used often, especially with it only on one Pokemon.

I'd give Togekiss and Jirachi Lum Berry instead of Leftovers, especially if they're going to be leading.

I don't like the fact you have to set up with every one of your sweepers. It's not as if the opponent will be sitting twiddling their thumbs while you stat up. It's fine to have a stat-upper, but remember that statting up is basically a free turn for the opponent as the benefits don't come into effect that turn, allowing them to do whatever they'd like in the meantime.

I think Raikou should be scrapped altogether, or at least given more offensive EVs. Right now you're not going to be doing a whole lot of damage with it even with a Calm Mind, and it's a liability to have a Pokemon that requires a lot of set-up turns to become effective. What I'd put in its place is Gengar, a Pokemon immune to Explosion, is a special threat, but also can Taunt, Destiny Bond, etc.

Take my advice with a grain of salt though, as I do not have a lot of Doubles experience.
 
umbarsc said:
What is your lead? You claim that Togekiss and Jirachi won't be out at the same time, but you posted them in what appears to be your lead position. I don't see them as an exactly effective lead. At least give Togekiss Protect over Wish, as Wish isn't very effective in Doubles, and it will give you a little synergy with Icy Wind I guess.

I would not base your strategy around Icy Wind. Icy Wind is not likely to be used often, especially with it only on one Pokemon.

I'd give Togekiss and Jirachi Lum Berry instead of Leftovers, especially if they're going to be leading.

I don't like the fact you have to set up with every one of your sweepers. It's not as if the opponent will be sitting twiddling their thumbs while you stat up. It's fine to have a stat-upper, but remember that statting up is basically a free turn for the opponent as the benefits don't come into effect that turn, allowing them to do whatever they'd like in the meantime.

I think Raikou should be scrapped altogether, or at least given more offensive EVs. Right now you're not going to be doing a whole lot of damage with it even with a Calm Mind, and it's a liability to have a Pokemon that requires a lot of set-up turns to become effective. What I'd put in its place is Gengar, a Pokemon immune to Explosion, is a special threat, but also can Taunt, Destiny Bond, etc.

Take my advice with a grain of salt though, as I do not have a lot of Doubles experience.
Click to expand...

I said in the beginning that the first two are not my leads - I have this team divided into sections. PBR displays the opponents pokemon and my leads depend on what I predict. I always use one sweeper paired with a flincher.

The whole point of this team is setup... Jirachi is the main poke with a 60% flinch chance on BOTH opponents each turn! This is a great chance to set up at least once or twice (depending on the move) and sweep. Most of my sweepers are somewhat bulky and can take a hit or two - if the opponent manages to use one.

I'll take your advice about the Gengar into consideration b/c of explosion-based teams and the Lum berry could be useful on Jirachi in certain situations, but I like knowing that Rock Slide/Icy Wind will always hit for that 60% flinch rate and initial speed drop.
 
Jirachi doesn't get Rock Slide. The only useful way of using Serence Grace would be to Skill Swap it to something like Aerodactyl and then take advantage of flinch rate by using Rock Slide.

As for the team itself, they don't seem to work together at all. After your lead has been KOed, you don't really have a back-up plan. Lucario doesn't work with Raikou, Gyrados doesn't work with Porygon-Z, ect..
 
Thanks for pointing this out. I can't believe that Jirachi doesn't learn Rock Slide...I'm such an idiot. There goes my whole strategy.

If a mod could Lock/delete this thread, that would be great.
 
You could always use Zen Headbutt on Jirachi if your main aim is flinching. I guess it doesn't get Rock type's coverage, but if you're desperate... =S
 
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