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DP Froslass

Aldaron

Aldaron

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There was a topic in Stark about this, but it hasn't been added to the analyses so I am going to post it here. I forget if I run exactly what that topic mentioned, so you guys can comment on it here. I'm obviously going to post what I specifically used and what I specifically found to be effective.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/froslass

[SET]
Name: Frustrating Froslass
Move 1: Spikes
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Substitute
Move 4: Ice Beam / Confuse Ray / Destiny Bond
Item: Bright Powder / Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>When paralyzed, an opponent has a 54% chance to hit Froslass (with Brightpowder) in Hail (assuming the move is 100% accurate). This means that, on average, Froslass only requires two Substitutes before the opponent will miss, and it can then easily set up Spikes. This set's purpose is to frustrate the opponent, add up the Spikes, and possibly force the opponent to make a bad play once he continually misses and realizes he has to deal with three layers of Spikes and no way to Rapid Spin them away, as Froslass is a part Ghost type.</p>

<p>Ice Beam is preferred in the last slot over Confuse Ray both because it is a STAB attack and because the only Pokemon immune to Thunder Wave (besides Volt Absorb and Motor Drive Pokemon), are Ground types, which take Super Effective damage from Ice Beam. However, Confuse Ray can be used for the additional annoyance it brings. If confused and paralyzed, the opponent only has a 30% chance to hit Froslass (this time with Leftovers), meaning Froslass can easily Substitute, Spikes, Substitute, Spikes ad nauseum. Destiny Bond is another option for this last slot, as it allows Froslass to take out specific counters, or what Ice Beam does not hit for at least neutral damage. Be aware that should Froslass not run Ice Beam, it will be completely susceptible to Taunt and be forced to either switch or Struggle on the following turn.</p>

<p>If Ice Beam is chosen, the recommended item is Brightpowder, to reduce the enemy's ability to hit Froslass to 54%. If Confuse Ray is chosen, Leftovers is preferred to possibly obtain an extra turn of Substitute. Also, if Confuse Ray is chosen, there is no need to have Special Attack EVs, so run 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 Spe, for 342 HP, to be able to substitute again after 4 turns of Leftovers recovery.</p>
 
To be honest, I'm suprised that no one has posted this set yet. I know that EW runs this Lass on a few (a lot) of his teams. Nothing to add except for maybe the item. Since you are aiming for evasion, I understand that Brightpowder makes sense as the first slot but I'd almost suggest Leftovers over it just in case you are playing in Sand or just for the extra Sub recovery. But along with this, Focus Sash is another good option especially if this is used as a lead. Sub on things that will try to sleep you (Gar and pray to god you win the speed tie, Zong), then T-Wave 'em. Sash saves you in case you lost speed ties/need to switch out on Tar/get surprised by Scarfers etc.
 
matty said:
To be honest, I'm suprised that no one has posted this set yet. I know that EW runs this Lass on a few (a lot) of his teams.
Click to expand...

I assume it is a different EW to me since I have never used that Froslass set. I have used Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Spikes/Destiny Bond @ Focus Sash quite a lot (on two teams which I use to ladder quite often) though.

This Froslass is very annoying, Heatran (one of Froslass' best usual counters) can seemingly never beat it if it is choiced and using Fire Blast. Destiny Bond is probably also worth mentioning since frustrated people will not be thinking about the possibility of it and with Substitute, Froslass is not going to be killed by Toxic/Leech Seed/etcetera (they will be focused on stopping Froslass from setting up Spikes/knocking it out). I would probably put it in the same slot that already has Ice Beam/Confuse Ray, but Confuse Ray isn't really a good option anyway in my opinion.
 
Earthworm said:
I assume it is a different EW to me since I have never used that Froslass set. I have used Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Spikes/Destiny Bond @ Focus Sash quite a lot (on two teams which I use to ladder quite often) though.
Click to expand...

ahh, well my mistake then (though both sets are fairly similiar). Confuse Ray has merits, but again as EW said I'd rather have a 4th Slot Attack move. I'm gonna second what he said and also suggest some of Lass's other cool support moves like: Toxic, Taunt, Hail, Destiny Bond, Disable, Safeguard. Now some may goff at things like Disable and Safeguard, but they too have merits. I think Toxic might be a great move as well in place of T-Wave. With all the "Hail Hax" she is trying to get along with her good speed, she can usually stall stuff out for quiet awhile racking up Toxic damage.
 
[SET]
Name: Frustrating Froslass
Move 1: Spikes
Move 2: Thunder Wave
Move 3: Substitute
Move 4: Ice Beam / Confuse Ray / Destiny Bond
Item: Bright Powder / Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Ability: Snow Cloak
Click to expand...

Destiny Bond deserves a mention. Due to its lack of coverage with just Ice Beam, taking down a pokemon and creating a dent in your opponent's team isn't a bad thing. Its counters or revenge killers also won't be in your way of a sweep/stall for long.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>When paralyzed, an opponent has a 54% chance to hit Froslass (with Brightpowder) in Hail (assuming the move is 100% accurate). This means that on average, Froslass only requires two Substitutes before the opponent will miss, and it can then easily set up Spikes.
Click to expand...

This sentence was too long originally. Changed it to two.
 
I'm not sure about Destiny Bond on the set; when paralysed, with Brightpowder and playing in hail, your opponent will be missing nearly half the time. The risk of giving away your 'surprise' seems quite considerable, and so I'd almost certainly personally run Ice Beam in the last slot. Keep Destiny Bond as an option, but it's drawbacks on this set need mentioning in the comments imo.
 
If you're in Hail, why not Blizzard > Ice Beam? I mean, this Froslass is supposed to be played in Hail to increase evasion, so Blizzard will be 100% accurate.
 
Amelia said:
If you're in Hail, why not Blizzard > Ice Beam? I mean, this Froslass is supposed to be played in Hail to increase evasion, so Blizzard will be 100% accurate.
Click to expand...

The problem with Blizzard though is you only have 8 PP, which isn't too great, especially if the pokemon your trying to stall has Pressure. >.> Also, if their is no hail (which is possible), that puts the accuracy of Blizzard at a shaky 50%. So I think Ice Beam is much better in the long run.
 
or just write a quick snip-it of how blizzard is an alternative to ice beam if used specifically on a hail team... (is the accuracy really 50%, thought it was a bit more than that unless your factoring in SS)
 
Without Ice Beam (or any direct damage move) there is no reason to use 252 SpA, so imo it's necessary to write something about this.
 
Anti said:
that first time fails 46% of the time, then I don't think they'll go and attack again once the surprise's out...
Click to expand...

The point is to keep Froslass alive for as long as possible, and the threat of them 'killing themselves' by killing you will probably help you achieve this while potentially building up Hail damage, layers of Spikes and Toxic Spikes damage (since it is a commonly employed strategy by Hail teams).

That said, I would also prefer if Froslass had something to attack with which is why I used my set and not this set I guess :heart:
 
Aldaron said:
Destiny Bond is another option for this last slot, as it allows Froslass to take out specific counters, or what Ice Beam does not hit for at least neutral damage.
Click to expand...

Small nitpick i found, and it seems to be the only one.
Also, might want to say that anything faster with Taunt can shut this down before it can get a sub up unless it has Ice Beam.
 
Fixed small problems again, added the mention about Taunt.

I'm against adding Blizzard here, but I will with a bit more information on its effectiveness.
 
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