ORAS OU DP/HGSS Friends + Lati and Torn (Peak Mid 1800s)

[13sdic]

Hi! I'm here with my second RMT. I want to get more involved with smogon and I figured what better way then to put up a team I've had real success with to share it and get some feedback on how to strengthen it! This is a relatively old team I made last fall while Hoopa-U was still running around. Though dated, it was alot of fun to use and it has some of my favorite mons. With this team I reached to about 1850 on the ladder before the suspect test started; the screenshot below is however the highest rank I recorded:

Peak (I'm SD13 lmao)

http://imgur.com/IbDRoJi

Now let's get into the team:

The team can essentially be broken down into two parts. The first half consists of Weavile, Manaphy, and Mega Scizor. Each are potent sweepers and great win conditions that can take on a large portion of the meta and each can check or eliminate threats for the other. The second half of the team (Tornadus-T, Garchomp, and Latias) primarily functions to facilitate the sweep of one of the above members by dealing with their checks, getting up rocks, grabbing momentum, etc. Generally the plan when playing with this team is to recognize which one of the first three mons can sweep late game, and then use the rest of the team to wear down it's checks and counters so that you can sd, tail glow, or healing wish up and take it home.

First up:

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Low Kick​

I wanted to make this team around weavile and manaphy because of their good offensive synergy and because weavile is a serious threat to most offensive and balanced teams due to it's strong knock off, priority, and great speed tier. The generic set is used here because that is all weavile needs to do it's job. It can eliminate things like lando and torn to open up a door for scizor. It can threaten out the lati's which manaphy appreciates. It can also sweep teams with the coverage above once enemy keldeos and such have been sufficiently weakened. I've thought about pursuit over low kick so I can reliably remove the lati twins for manaphy but like I said above low kick helps it cut through teams more effectively. Weavile is by far one of my favorite mons and I love using it and having it do the work (as long as crash hits).

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Energy Ball
- Psychic​

Next up is Manaphy. This pokemon is so much fun to use. Tail glow with the appropriate coverage can rip through stall and balanced teams. The coverage I have chosen here obviously misses out on the lati twins but I have a solid switchin being AV Torn-T and a good check in weavile. Again I wanted to use manaphy on this team because of it's synergy with weavile and it's ability to manage balance and stall better with the pressure provided by tail glow. Scald and Psychic give me the tools to handle most bulky threats like amoongus/mvenu/msab while energy ball lets me ohko quag and deal with slowbro. Energy ball is also very important on this set because I can take ~60% off of a lead rotom which weakens it to the point where weavile or scizor can take it out. On top of handling stall manaphy can threaten lando and other bulky grounds that scizor doesn't appreciate. It also can take on fire type threats that weavile and scizor cant't.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Superpower
​

Now another one of my favorite mons. Although I think his regular design is cooler than the mega, scizor puts in the work nonetheless. With the above coverage scizor has the tools to pull off a late game sweep once lando and chomper have been dealt with. Max attack is used to make the bp hit hard. Bug bite gets technician and STAB boosts and is a good move to hit slowbro with and to hit other things neutrally for big damage. Superpower is to hit slow trans and mags as well as opposing scizor. I'm jolly on this right now but I considering going back to adamant because the extra speed would only be useful to out run a speedy tran but those usually have a enough speed to beat scizor anyway. However, either way scizor can easily sweep offensive teams at +2 once manaphy and weavile have worn down the bulky grounds and dragons.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
​

Next up is helmet chomp. At this point my team is looking pretty weak to fast threats/fake out users. Garchomp can check offensive threats like mega lopunny, talonflame, etc. Rocks are very helpful and help the above three sweep through teams and wear down cores. Dtail is great for phazing and fire blast helps pressure ferro and skarm. Chomper helps seal up some holes defensively but often finds itself strained to fulfill all its roles. For example it can check mega lopunny but often dies to it before it can set up rocks. However in general garchomp fits well on this team.

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Icy Wind
- Heat Wave
​

So far I have no good switchin to the lati's and no great ways to deal with keldeo. AV Torn-T can fill both of these roles. U-turn is excellent for grabbing momentum and bringing in my offensive members or bringing in chomper to set up the rocks. Hurricane threatens keldeo, seperior, etc while heat wave is good coverage for scizor, weakened mega-gross, and ferro. Icy Wind is a little bit of a memey move lol as I could just as easily run hp ice for the surprise factor on lando. However the speed reduction factor is nice and either way I want to be able to weaken lando and chomper for scizor in the late game. Timid is the nature here because u-turn is more for utility and I would rather keep more defensive bulk over going hasty.

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Defog
​

Finally we have Latias. Another reliable switchin to keldeo and a good stealth rock deterrent and remover. Draco and Psyshock provide nice coverage and can deal decent damage before going for healing wish. This is actually latias's main role on the team. It checks mons like keldeo in the early game and then brings one of the sweepers back to full to clean late game. Healing wish is so nice and it means I can be more reckless in my playstlye in order to break threats. I can tail glow up to +6 against stall and brute force chansey down and then bring manaphy back to full after to sweep the rest of the team. Scizor or weavile can take a burn in order to kill a rotom or slowbro and they can be brought back to finish the job later. Latias has so much utility and it fills its role well on this team by supporting the sweepers.

So there's the team! Thanks for reading and please leave your comments and suggestions and feel free to try it out :)

Importable

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Energy Ball
- Psychic

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Defog

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Superpower

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Icy Wind
- Heat Wave

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

 

[kek123]

Hey cool team although there is a few things that I would change being I would change manaphy for spec keldeo what this does is that it give you a check/counter to weavile and bisharp which you are pretty weak to especially weavile it also helps you with the problem of that you lack raw power since torn-t and chomp are defensive pokemon and manaphy and scizor are set up sweeper so you only have weavile and latias for power and you may find yourself lacking power with out keldeo over manaphy hope this helps :)

 

[13sdic]

Thanks for the rate! :) I like the idea of keldeo to beat weavile more reliably for sure. Bisharp is typically well handled by bulky chomp but my best counter to weavile is an offensive scizor without roost which isn't the most reliable. Typically I try to patch that weakness with rocks and a healing wish into scizor. I worry that dropping manaphy will leave me more succeptible to stall, especially amoongus, but I'm definitely going to try keldeo out because it has the coverage and immediate power you mentioned. Keldeo would however leave me more weak to talon and clef but I like the idea of having keldeo on a more offensive version of the team.

 

[eden]

Hi! This is a good team, if funnily enough a tad weak to opposing Weavile; You have counter play in the form of Scizor though so it shouldn't be TOO big of a deal, but I do understand that the standard defensive SD MScizor wouldn't fit on this kind of build. So something that definitely fits and makes sense is Keldeo>Manaphy;

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind

This or possibly the Choice Scarf set to give you more an emergency button versus +1 ZardX(granted except for MScizor ZardX has no setup room) and other setup swepers, and some speed control would nice honest;y, the thing I find off putting though is your terrible electric matchup at the moment. You have Latias+Garchomp so again you can play around it, but just noting it for w/e its worth. Electrics are just irritating to offensive builds in general honestly, I would actually say on a team with Keldeo, you probably should look into running Pursuit Weavile to support it.
To offset the average-ish matchup vs stall now, you should probably go for

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Knock Off

because otherwise honestly the team struggles in a matchup now against a fatter team. Honestly Heat Wave>U-Turn probably makes more sense for this particular squad at this point though, to help Weavile+Scizor break through slower, fatter teams much more easily. Also I feel Roost Latias is a better option here, if only because of electrics/Volcanion(none of your team wants to trade with this atm),etc; granted Raikou is average in this meta as is, Mega Manec but just putting that out there. Nicely built offense, gl on ladder!

Also keep in mind that for your matchup vs sand; defensive Lando-T is an option>Chomp, but the Lando-T over chomp trend has been running around for quite a while tbh.

 

[blackwing2198]

Played 2 games great team but unfortunately got haxed both games :/
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-385370668
I really enjoyed the team it flowed really well from one mon into the next and I really liked the icy wind torn :)

 

[Disciple_1]

Thanks for the rate! :) I like the idea of keldeo to beat weavile more reliably for sure. Bisharp is typically well handled by bulky chomp but my best counter to weavile is an offensive scizor without roost which isn't the most reliable. Typically I try to patch that weakness with rocks and a healing wish into scizor. I worry that dropping manaphy will leave me more succeptible to stall, especially amoongus, but I'm definitely going to try keldeo out because it has the coverage and immediate power you mentioned. Keldeo would however leave me more weak to talon and clef but I like the idea of having keldeo on a more offensive version of the team.

TBH your team handles stall rather well even without manaphy. Between torn-t, weavile and latias, you can reliable beat stall. As for tflame, I wouldn't worry too much because tank chomp normally beats that happily. Clefable may initially seem to be a problem,but specs keldeo can 2HKO it easily on the switch. Otherwise switch into mega scizor. On a separate note, I would suggest making scizor a bit more bulky if you do decide to use keldeo. Longevity is always useful. Cheers on the team, it looks pretty good.

 

[Tricking]

hello 13sdic,
nice team. I have a few suggestions to make it better. For instance, you should run Rain Dance over Energy Ball on Manaphy. This change is particularly helpful when facing stall, as you will be able to destroy both Chansey and Amoonguss, which are the two common mons that tend to check Manaphy in a stall team. You don't really need Energy Ball seen as Suicune isn't really a big issue for your team. The same applies for Rotom. Not only does Rain Dance help versus stallish builds, but also against Charizard Y (which threatens your mega) as it is probably going with Solar Beam, and in case you win the tie (or it is modest), you lock him into a 2-turns 60 BP Solar Beam being able to OHKOing him with Scald.

With this being said, i can tell you that offensive scizor - despite being one of my favorite sets - is kinda deadweight nowadays because Heatran is generally played with 278 Speed and Specs Magnezone isn't really common. Anyways I agree with running Superpower to punish switch-ins of the aforementioned Pokemon. Another thing I don't like is that you take like 50% from opposing Weavile in the normal form without being able to recover. So, I would run a bulkier set with Roost, keeping Superpower.

At this point you would struggle a bit with Rotom-Wash, so my suggestion is to use Toxic on Garchomp over Dragon Tail: Dragon Tail isn't really useful most of the times and Toxic in this case puts on a timer rotom-wash while it might try to Volt Switch to catch Latias. Even in case Rotom burns you, it's not a big deal because you can set rocks up, poison it, and pretty much Garchomp's job is completed. Toxic helps against mega slowbro and bulky setuppers as well.

If charizard y and talon are annoying for your team, consider running hidden power rock on Tornadus-Therian. Beware it does little damage on Talonflame after priority Roost, so you should catch the turn in which he doesn't use roost. this change is optional, you don't need to do it. Knock Off is a good utility as well to break through balanced cores with ease.

Scizor

Scizor (M) @ Scizorite
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 76 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Superpower

Good luck with your team :)

 

[13sdic]

Thanks everyone for the rates! Sunny and kek123, ultimately I think I want to keep manaphy on the team because of how well it's functioned so far but I've been toying around with a new keldeo-scizor build recently :) I really like the offensive synergy. The keldeo/torn changes help deal with weavile and stall but I lose my switchin to dracos/hyper voices/etc. HP fire lati@s becomes a big problem and doubling to weavile on the switchin won't always work out in my favor. Although if it is hp fire then latias beats it so I'm not sure, I'll have to play around with it some more.

Tricking thanks for your suggestions dude! Rain dance manaphy is defintiely my favorite set and I see how it makes sense to put the burden of wearing down rotom/slowbro on garchomp so that manaphy can have an easier time sweeping stall/slower teams. I'm going to try out that bulky scizor as well for the reasons you gave. Lol actually in the first game I played my opponent had a scarf mag.

Blackwing, thanks for trying it out man! :)