DP Shuckle

Aldaron

Aldaron

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Well this isn't going to be too different from what is in the normal analysis, but I have a few specific issues with it. Toxic + Rest + Encore should absolutely always be on every Supporting Wall Shuckle, and Knock Off / Stealth Rock / Body Slam should be three possible options for the fourth slot.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shuckle

[SET]
Name: Supporting Wall
Move 1: Encore
Move 2: Rest
Move 3: Toxic / Stealth Rock
Move 4: Knock Off / Stealth Rock
Item : Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpD
Nature: Impish
Ability: Gluttony

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This Shuckle has a physically defensive potential of 244 HP * 602 Def = 146888, and, in Sand, a specially defensive potential of 244 * (508 * 1.5) = 185928. To put this in perspective, Cresselia reaches a maximum special defensive potential of 174936, meaning Shuckle is 185928 / 174936 = 1.063, or 6.3% more specially sturdy than Cresselia. Forretress reaches a maximum defensive potential of 147264, or 147264 / 146888 = 1.0026, or just .3% more defensive than Shuckle. Shuckle is as defensively bulky as Forretress, and more specially bulky than Cresselia, making it arguably the best neutral mixed wall in the game (again, in Sand).</p>

<p>The EVs are designed to let Shuckle not be 2HKOed by Choice Specs Salamence's Hydro Pump on average, and to not be 3HKOed by Adamant Choice Scarf Garchomp's Outrage on average.</p>

<p>The reason Encore + Toxic + Rest is so effective on Shuckle is that Toxic + Rest allows Shuckle to take on a large majority of Pokemon one on one. The Poison, Steel, Substitute, and Rest + Sleep Talk Pokemon that would defeat the Toxic + Rest strategy are all debilitated by Encore, and essentially become "setup" bait for another sweeper on Shuckle's team.</p>

<p>Although the preferred set is Toxic + Rest + Encore + Knock Off, team needs frequently require Shuckle to carry Stealth Rock. In this case, either Toxic or Knock Off can be dropped, and neither is necessarily preferred over the other. While Toxic + Rest allows Shuckle to beat many Pokemon one on one, Knock Off allows Shuckle to remove the strategy of various Pokemon by removing their items. This is especially effective in Sand, as Knock Off will remove Leftovers on opposing Pokemon and allow residual damage to build much faster.</p>
 
I know through experience that this set works, and is a VERY useful supporter on an offensive team thanks to amazing defenses and specifically, Encore.

edit: also, I agree with what Bologo says below; Knock Off is almost essential. I've always ran Rest / Stealth Rock / Knock Off / Encore.
 
Yea, I should probably emphasize how its defenses + Encore assist offensive teams.

I'll note this for the future.
 
Personally, from using him on pretty much all of my teams in DP (not even an exaggeration), I feel that Knock Off is much more important than Toxic. Any pokemon can carry Toxic, but there's not many that can carry Knock Off and actually use it as well as Shuckle does.

Toxic is a viable option on the set, but Knock Off should be the one in the 2nd slot with no slashes, because it allows him to help out the team a lot more than Toxic does, since Knocking Off something like a Choice Scarf can make killing an uncounterable threat to the team a lot easier.

Toxic should be in the 4th slot with all of the slashes. It's a good option, but not essential to the set, because Shuckle should be making it so that the other pokemon on his team can beat the opponents, and he should only be trying to do it himself as a last resort IMO. If you must keep Toxic on the 2nd slot, you should at least list Knock Off as an alternative to it since Shuckle can operate fine without Toxic, especially if the team already has Toxic Spikes.

If you want to use Knock Off, but still have a paralysis move since Body Slam and Knock Off are illegal with each other, use Secret Power instead since it still has the 30% chance of paralysis in the wifi arena and shoddybattle, and the lower BP does not matter for Shuckle.
 
I'm not really concerned about what makes Shuckle different from other Pokemon, i.e. with Knock Off. Knock Off is useful sure but how does it compare to the utility Toxic offers? Nearly everything that Toxic cannot beat is taken care of by Encore, unlike Knock Off, which, while certainly helping the team, doesn't really beat anything.

In fact, I valued the Toxic + Rest + Encore trio so much that I recently ran Sleep Talk in the fourth set, simply to use Encore and Toxic more.

I guess Knock Off would be more useful for a Stall team; Toxic and the slight residual damage it leaves on the opponent is certainly beneficial for offensive type teams.

Hmm, I don't really know what to say to you Bologo, because I seriously consider Encore + Toxic + Rest to be absolutely vital on Shuckle. It was a life saver on my Olympic Glory team =/
 
this set owns, ive been using it on my shoddy team for months and in my opinion it counters chomp so good. encoring just destroys set ups while you toxic.
 
Well, I guess it's not a good idea to get rid of Toxic in the second slot, but putting Knock Off as a viable option there too is a good idea. Just put it as an option in both the 2nd and 4th slots, so that people can see that Knock Off is viable over Toxic or the other options. I'd mention that if you want to use Shuckle as a Stealth Rocker, then put Knock Off over Toxic, but if you're using him for any purpose other than SRing, then use Toxic and put Knock Off in the last slot.

I'm really not 100% sure which one is better though, because Knock Off is what makes Shuckle so hard to switch into when he's not asleep, since nothing likes losing their item, which their entire strategy is sometimes based on, but Toxic helps a lot on a Sandstorm team, which I'm assuming is what you're using this on.

Personally, I would like to use Knock Off + Toxic on the same set, but I almost always need Shuckie as my Stealth Rocker. I admittedly only used Knock Off + Toxic for a little while and it was without Sandstorm up. Getting rid of Leftovers with Knock, and passive damage with Sandstorm + Toxic is a great strategy though. I seem to always love using Knock Off/Encore/Stealth Rock/Rest though. :(

Now that I think about it, maybe you should get rid of Body Slam as an option in that last slot to prevent /itis. Body Slam isn't helping with anything if you're planning to Toxic stuff, and it's just generally not that useful since a 30% chance of paralysis really isn't that good.

EDIT: Alright, since I can't seem to make up my mind with what to say, I'm going to sum up my current point since it keeps on changing. Remove Body Slam as an option in the last slot since it will screw up Toxic's potential, and put Knock Off as a viable option in the 2nd AND 4th slot. Sheesh, forgive me for my dum-dum syndrome. -.-
 
Don't forget to make Shuckle Sturdy. You have Gluttony listed as its trait.

Knock Off can take care of random Yache\Salac Berries, so if you have a team that relies heavily on Ice moves to take care of Garchomp, you can get rid of that Yache Berry first before you send in Mamoswine to take it out. It's one instance I guess you could use Knock Off in, but other than that I swear by Stealth Rock\Toxic\Encore\Rest.

I like it. Good revision to the version I originally wrote last year.

EDIT: It's not so bad having both Body Slam + Toxic - Body Slam at least gives you a chance to paralyze Steel\Poison switchins and making them easier to finish off.
 
Fixes edited. Quick question, OmegaDonut, why should I carry Sturdy? Currently OHKO moves are not allowed in the standard metagame, and while I do not have a Berry on Shuckle, I can imagine a case where some Berry is tricked onto Shuckle, which Gluttony would then help use more effectively.
 
Why write these analyses with such a specific metagame in mind? There's a good chance that someone reading this one will use this set in an environment where OHKOs are allowed. (Better than the chances of somebody tricking a berry onto Shuckle, anyway.)

Also, the legality of OHKO moves are being discussed in Policy Review. Who knows? They just might become unbanned, and then you'll wish you put Sturdy in your analysis.
 
lol, I'm definitely only writing analyses with the online metagame in mind

if they are unbanned later, I will make my changes then
 
At least make a note of why you're running Gluttony over Sturdy. I'm sure there are plenty of people who look up these sets and don't play on Shoddy.
 
I think you might want to mention how Knock Off is especially useful when used in conjunction with sand (and there most likely WILL be sand in play if you're using a team with Shuckle) since it removes Leftovers and makes the opponent's team take Sandstorm damage.
 
This post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

Hold onto this one. There seems to be a bit left to discuss here.
 
I put this on the scms with Darkie's mention about Knock Off in Sand

for marking purposes, this can be deleted once that is cached.
 
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