-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
DP Tier Discussion Thread - BL and UU
- Thread starter alex
- Start date
- Status
The only Pokemon that is able to pull off a NonSTAB Draco Meteor is Draco Plate-less Arceus.
I think Flygon would almost certainly be too powerful for UU. Using a LO set, it would probably be able to destroy most UU walls in 2 hits (The Rock/steel types that resist Draco Meteor don't stand a chance thanks to EQ/Earth Power). Grumpig/Hypno, while able to take Draco Meteor, would fall pretty easily to Crunch afterwards. Flygon's defenses are decent enough that Roost could easily be an option, as well.
It's really kinda unfortunate, though, since Flygon is completely outclassed by Garchomp in OU (has a few tiny advantages like Levitate, Fire Punch, and U-turn, but Garchomp is so much better in every other way) that there's little/no reason to use it, and if it's not allowed in UU, it'll see very little use.
It's really kinda unfortunate, though, since Flygon is completely outclassed by Garchomp in OU (has a few tiny advantages like Levitate, Fire Punch, and U-turn, but Garchomp is so much better in every other way) that there's little/no reason to use it, and if it's not allowed in UU, it'll see very little use.
all i disagree with are Shedinja and Drapion being BL. i think both should be UU. Shedinja is totally destroyed by any kind of play these days; Stealth Rock is going to be used all the time at any level. Drapion i dont think is overpowering to the UU game -- he only has base 90 Atk and his main moves aren't high-powered. otherwise i think this list is definitely usable.
And Smeargle.
Shedinja- probably can come down to UU.
Drapion- This merits a bit more thought. Yes, it's only has base 90 attack which is pretty average for UU, but it's physical movepool's pretty friggin big, it has base 95 speed which can outspeed a lot, it gets access to Swords Dance and Agility, and it has that haxy ability. The Rock/Steels wall him pretty well until people start running EQ, and the only physical wall that isnt hit SE by its attacks is Quagsire, but its neutral to Cross Poison so it may not fare too well. Maybe defensive Hitmontop can handle him, but aside from that I dont know...
Adamant 252 Atk LO Stone Edge from Flygon vs max/max Bold Walrein:
47.88% - 56.37%
Possible 2-hit KO, but it is more likely to have a 3-hit KO or a miss when you factor in leftovers. If hail is up, Walrein has 100% chance of survival.
Given that infinite Hail isn't going to exist in UU, wouldn't Walrein be using Thick Fat instead of Ice Body?
Also, it's worth noting that Draco Meteor from a neutral nature, 0 EV Flygon does 42.45% - 50.00% to a 252 hp Walrein, while a neutral nature, 252 sp atk Draco Meteor does 55.90% - 65.80% (assuming LO in both cases). Either way, Walrein doesn't have reliable recovery, so it can't switch in repeatedly.
Walrein definitely can't take repeated blows from Flygon especially considering that it takes 25% on the switch-in from stealth rock, which is quite abundant everywhere.
I suppose that means Specs Flygon can OHKO with draco meteor after stealth rock damage right? Just wondering.
Seems kind of odd that Flygon would be staying in against Walrein anyway since it risks getting an STAB ice beam in the face.
Also, about Shedinja moving down to UU, remember, the guy did get a lot better this generation, in fact quite a bit better. It can now basically have an extra life with focus sash, and with no weather in UU, the only way to kill it is by attacking or stealth rock. A lot of pokemon are in UU because of a harsh weakness to stealth rock, so most teams will have a spinner anyway, so shedinja just has to be worried about getting attacked or statused.
With swords dance and focus sash, shedinja is guaranteed to get a swords dance off and then it can really hurt things with shadow sneak.
Although, I don't actually mind if it does get moved down to UU. If it is moved down it will be a big threat there as teams will need to make sure they save something to kill the guy, or else he'll just come in late in the game, swords dance as much as he wants and then kill everything without them being able to do anything about it. Just my two cents on the ghostbug though.
For the record, that's an example of fuzzy logic. As a matter of fact, I see very few teams with an actual spinner, but the thing is if you use Shedinja you better have a spinner on your team as well or else its just a free KO.
Were can I found OU/BL/UU list?
BL and UU are still discussed, not sure where to find the OU list..
You say that as if Shadow Sneak is the only attack it has. I'm pretty sure that after a SD the now more powerful Dig would be able to OHKO Probopass/Aggron, although that can be dealt with using prediction if you have the right Pokemon in reserve. Or Magnet Rise in the case of Probopass.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind it being used in UU at all, as no team should have more than one or two Pokemon that cannot deal with it in some way, whether it be PHazing alongside Spikes/SR, Toxic/Will-o-wisp, Hail/Sandstorm, or just an attack from one of the five types it is weak to. With so much still able to kill it in UU, I don't see how its inclusion would overcentralize things, it would just be another threat to be prepared for.
There's a link to the OU page on the first post of this thread. :happybrain:
And Stealth Rock AND sandstorm AND spikes...
Shedinja gets OWNED without a proper spinner.
There isn't infinite SS in UU. And the fact that Shedinja is useless without a spinner doesn't by any means make it automacially UU/NU. That being said, from my somewhat limited experience with it I, do think Shedinja is fine in UU. It's movepool lacks a real solid attack to deal with steel types (lol dig) and it's not particularly difficult to counter. Though it has Shadow Sneak, there are plenty of pokemon immune to that and Sheddy is dirt-slow without it. Then again, like I mentioned I haven't had much experience with them, so...eh. My opinion might not be completely correct.
Shedinja's strength doesn't come from stats or its immunity to two thirds of the game (though thats partly it) its the fact that when you're down to your last 3 Pokemon and not one of them has a Super Effective left than it may as well be good game.
Counter, yes its easy. Its more the general issue that it can end a game with no hope of a comeback, nothing else can boast this.
Counter, yes its easy. Its more the general issue that it can end a game with no hope of a comeback, nothing else can boast this.
For an OU counter-example... DD-Taunt Gyarados pretty much rapes if no one is prepared for him. Once you remove the ghost / other fighting resists and speedier guys... I can see CB-Hitmonlee raping the game in UU with close combat.
The only difference is that Shedinja won't be OHKOing anyone soon.
shedinja, it pretty much counters any poke that doesn't have a...
fire
rock
ghost
dark
flying
move, as long as stealth rock, SS, hail, spikes, or toxic spikes aren't out
while yes, 5 types is a lot, but there are some pokes (starmie, bronzong, cresselia) that don't use those types as moves in general
so basically, if those factors are taken away, shedinja wins...as long as it has the PP to stay in there, cause if it pulls off a struggle (Highly unlikely...but hey, anything can happen) it's dead
fire
rock
ghost
dark
flying
move, as long as stealth rock, SS, hail, spikes, or toxic spikes aren't out
while yes, 5 types is a lot, but there are some pokes (starmie, bronzong, cresselia) that don't use those types as moves in general
so basically, if those factors are taken away, shedinja wins...as long as it has the PP to stay in there, cause if it pulls off a struggle (Highly unlikely...but hey, anything can happen) it's dead
Theres a difference being you'd still have at the very least a 1% chance of pulling through when Gyarados gets going through sheer bulky tanks who can still hit back when setup correctly.
With Shedinja when its pulled out correctly you literally have 0% chance of victory, its just unique like that. Like it matters if you can or can't OHKO when your opponent literally has no chance of hurting you. You could have the most brutal Electivire, Azumarill etc. remaining and all of them would be rendered useless.
It in no way upsets the game given the multiple ways to counter but in my long experience thats just not how you use Shedinja. Especially given it even packs WoW nowadays making it that slightly more useful outside of just sponging.
Way too strong for UU (I don't think I need to justify why) and it's not OU. Thus, it falls into BL.
- Status