DPP Lucario (Lead)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lucario

First, let me say that Caelum's recent (?) revealing of this set was strangely not the first time I have ever heard of it, or used it for that matter. I have been using this set almost exclusively for weeks, but was apprehensive to write anything about it for a while. With conformation from Caelum and LR that it was a worthwhile set, I thought I'd flex my fingers a bit.

453.png


[SET]
name: Anti-Lead
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: ExtremeSpeed
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Counter
item: Focus Sash
ability: Inner Focus
nature: Lonely
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Lucario's ability to - quite literally - "counter" common leads of OU with its versatility and power makes it a worthwhile lead in the OU metagame. Otherwise forgotten selling points like its immunity to sandstorm, access to a powerful priority move, and Inner Focus allow it to find loopholes in the strategies of common leads.</p>

<p>A combination of Close Combat and ExtremeSpeed will deal with common suicide leads like Aerodactyl and Infernape, always 2HKOing both. The real icing on the cake is Inner Focus; with it, Infernape's (and any other Fake Out user) regular security against opponents with Focus Sash is turned into a weakness. Any Pokemon making the mistake of attempting to flinch you will be taken out by the aforementioned combination of Close Combat and ExtremeSpeed. Unfortunately, both of these attacks miss the 2HKO on Azelf, and as such, Crunch is the recommended third attacking option. Not only does this round off type-coverage, but with it, you are not left hopeless against switch-ins such as the Rotom-formes or Cresselia. Counter's main use is against bulky leads such as Bronzong, Metagross, Swampert, and Hippowdon that you normally wouldn't be able to touch, and also various attackers like Flygon, Mamoswine, and Machamp.</p>

<p>What makes Lucario the ideal Counter lead is not only Inner Focus, but also its immunity to sandstorm and threat of set-up. While most Focus Sash Pokemon have trouble dealing with instant weather brought on by Tyranitar and Hippowdon, Lucario's Steel-typing makes it immune, thus granting it the ability to Counter their attacks for the KO. Another widely underrated quality important for any Counter Pokemon is its initial threat factor; after a Swords Dance, Lucario becomes a powerful wall-breaker. Your opponent will likely not wish to allow this setup and greedily attack.</p>

<p>A Lonely nature is chosen to maximize damage from Counter, while max Speed is required to outrun +Speed Heatran and Mamoswine, allowing you to OHKO both with Close Combat before they set up. Other possibilites in the third slot include assorted Hidden Powers; should Swampert be exceedingly popular at the time, Hidden Power Grass is a suitable option (you will always 2HKO with a neutral nature), while Hidden Power Ice or Electric could be used against Salamence and Gyarados, respectively. Protect is another option to ease prediction with Counter. It should be noted however, the loss of Crunch in the third slot will lead you vulnerable to Ghost-types and Azelf. Swords Dance can also be used as a sort of inverse Counter; while normally bulky leads would have the chance to set up, you can turn the tables and prepare for an early game sweep. It is recommended that such choice be replacing Counter to retain type-coverage.</p>

Please post, especially if you have experience with the set. thank you

here's the messy post I made of this set to get it all down on paper in the New and creative moveset thread (should you wish to discuss anything messily over there). incidentally someone posted a gimmick version a few hours later, and Caelum admitted to using a similar set to what I had been using.
 
I want you to read the OP of this thread just for future reference Standards of Grammar, Spelling, etc.. Your grammar is fine, just the standardization was a bit off. Such as, ExtremeSpeed > Extremespeed; sandstorm > Sandstorm (weather is never capitalized) etc. I went in and edited your post and fixed it directly.

I just wanted to point out that I really liked your write up. I'm also a big fan of the set (as you pointed out). My only content objection is this line

A Lonely nature is chosen to maximize damage from Counter, while max Speed is required to outrun +Speed Heatran and Smeargle, allowing you to OHKO both with Close Combat before they set up.

This bit gives the impression this lead beats Smeargle leads which isn't exactly true. Most lead Smeargle will be running Focus Sash and just Spore you, or they will be running Choice Scarf and Spore you as well. Either way, you are Spored and you don't get the kill. Just a bit misleading in my opinion. However, considering it's the #25 most used lead in Feb (Forretress is more common as a lead and I can't think of the last time I saw a Forretress lead) it's not a terrible loss to its viability when it quite literally does extremely well against almost all of the top 10 leads.

Edit:
I have been using this set almost exclusively for weeks, but was apprehensive to write anything about it for a while

I'd honestly just rather have someone post something and have me lock it if needed than to have them be apprehensive about it and miss out on the inclusion of a possibly quality set. BTW, you can hit me up in PM if you are ever in a similar situation and aren't sure about writing a set up if you want. I don't bite (normally). I'm a Surskit, and Surskit are kind =o

Edit 2: I changed the name to Anti-Lead because I felt it was more appropriate.
 
For the record, I wouldn't mention Smeargle at all, as most of the time you'll be better to use ExtremeSpeed against it twice if you are going to stay in on it, as if it isn't holding Focus Sash, it's holding Choice Scarf as Caelum said.

Good writeup aside from that though.
 
Lucario's ability to - quite literally - "counter" common leads of OU

This just sounds really, really cheesy and annoying.

Otherwise I like it. THe writeup's awesome and now I wanna use the set D:
 
I really like this write-up as well, very well done. I'd agree with making the suggested changes by the above posters, once you do I see no reason why this won't be added to the site within the next 48 hours.
 
This set isn't so much of a surprise since logically based on what lead pokemon do you'd have CC/Crunch/Priority (obviously Espeed) @Sash...I guess counter is a surprise but I'd probably enjoy SD more. If your opponent chooses to SR instead of attack you, you make them pay for it. It's the same prediction that you have to make with counter (well...reversed) except the pay out is better. +2 Luc with sash is too nice to pass on imo.
 
Hmm, nice idea husk.

Counter / Swords Dance anyone?

I think it's fine even if it'd mirror the current SD set somewhat.
 
I was wondering why you would take the time to mention HP Grass, which is only for Swampert who can be dealt with by CC or Counter as well, but not mention HP Ice, Ice Punch or HP Electric to beat pokemon that will actually come into a Lucario: Salamence, Zapdos, Gliscor and Gyarados.

Pretty nice write-up other than that though, you are pretty convincing 0_o
 
Caelum; thanks for the editing and I will be sure to honor the Grammar and Spelling thread religiously for future articles.

Smeargle was changed to the more appropriate Mamoswine.

Chris; I'll keep this this way for now until I find a better intro.

husk; Swords Dance is an intriguing option on this set as a kind of inversed Counter; I can imagine it working. The problem with this is you will likely lose to bulky leads like Bronzong, Swampert, and Hippowdon. I'm kind of half-and-half on this as-is. I doubt seeing a sweep right off the bat from this guy honestly. if anyone has experience they could kindly share, and I'll test it out tonight. About the set having minimal actual sursprise value, that's one of the glories of it. It doesn't need to be a surprise to be used effectively (excluding Counter) versus Aerodactyl and Azelf, if this was your point.

jrrrrr; I guess I'll add mention of a few other attacking options along with Hidden Power Grass. the only real reason I chose this in particular was because of its popularity as a lead at the time I was testing this; HP Grass would be useful 1/10 times, while 1/20 I would find use for assorted Hidden Powers and elemental punches.
 
I only have limited experience with a Sword Dance Luke lead. The chance of you getting a sweep right off the bat is very unlikely. However, if you use Reversal (which is what I used) it is more likely but requires you to get damaged down to your Focus Sash. When I used that set I usually got screwed by status but I'm sure it can still work. I just wanted to bring up that you require Reversal to OHKO most walls.

EDIT: I can think of a few Pokemon husk, namely Metagross and Swampert. If this does go on site, then Swampert will just Surf to break your sash (your Counter fails, or you get a SD), then EQ for the KO. They have a low HP Swampert and no Stealth Rock but you didn't really do a great job being an anti-lead.
 
Oh, I just meant you'd make a huge hole in their team...not outright sweep. I can't think of anything that can take a +2 CC and then a +2 espeed that leads commonly. If they switch after letting you stat up to something like gengar or whatever you'll still have sash to ko him.
 
Swords Dance was quite lackluster in my practice of it; without Stealth Rocks or a Life Orb, the damage done was too minimal to warrant huge mention. Reversal overcentralizes the set on sweeping in my opinion; with it, you'll struggle doing constant damage to leads like Aerodactyl and Infernape. I'll add Swords Dance to the set comments for now. 'Most all options with some use on this set have been added, but straying too far from the original is often a mistake.

this is complete unless anyone has any more complaints/suggestions/uses for Swords Dance.
 
I'll give it another day since it's still only 24~ hours old. I'll upload tomorrow or Thursday depending on what happens.
 
Has anyone considered Bullet Punch? It still nets the 2HKOs on Azelf and Infernape while Lucario gains the ability to hit Gengar who would most likely have a Focus Sash or even a Choice Scarf (Crunch has a slight chance of not OHKOing >_>) as a lead.
 
Gengar is rarely used period, and is especially uncommon as a lead. However, Extremespeed does not serve any specific purpose on this set that Bullet Punch would not cover, so I see no reason not to run it. It helps you pick off weakened Tyranitars later on in the match, if nothing else.
 
Gengar is 11th in overall usage. To top it off:

Lead: | 12 | Gengar | 9150 | 2.12 |

I wouldn't call that "rare." However, Lucario will lose to Gengar anyways.
 
I looked at Bullet Punch, but besides beating Focus Sash Gengar you really do not do much else (not what ExtremeSpeed cannot do anyway).

Uploading this now, so it can be moved to Peer Edit Archive.
 
Back
Top