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Gen 4 DPP NU Discussion
- Thread starter Rabia
- Start date
won dpppl, idr my record but did good so here is teamdump
[LL] BeatsBlack vs Stories [GG]
SubTox Tauros is historically very good into BeatsBlack scout (I'm the history, I've beaten him twice before with that lead) so I have a pretty simple special offense with lead Tauros. Slowking Cradily Nidoqueen is a really solid defensive core, and NP + Colbur Slowking can effectively lure Dark-types for Drifblim, while Magneton destroys bulky teams that can shrug off Drifblim.
[BU] Hubriz vs Stories [GG]
This team isn't really good as it doesn't have a real wincon outside of Slowking, but it destroys other offense if it can get its foot in the door, otherwise it rlly lacks a lot of basic necessities of a team in this tier, wouldn't recommend it gets used
[DD] OranBerryBlissey10 vs Stories [GG]
More offensive take on my Glalie teams which are generally some kind of semistall. Main premise is SubTox Articuno which beats basically everything except Magneton, so I have Sandslash (which also Spins for Cuno) and Gardevior which can trap Mag. team is very reliant on Spikes but Glalie is very consistent at getting up a layer or two.
[RR] neomon vs Stories [GG]
I think this is the best style of team in the metagame right now (subject to change as the meta changes) but this is the kind of team I recommend to anyone getting into the tier. Spikes really enable Chan to overwhelm Dusclops / Sableye and HP Ground Cacturne is rlly nice to not be passive into Skuntank and Magneton.
[YNY] Ninja vs Stories [GG]
Again a super amazing style of team that is difficult to beat. It is often worth playing a 5v6 if it means Spikes go up with this team. Lost this week due to a misplay in a poor matchup but there's stuff you can run to change matchups, like using Thunder Punch on Licki to pressure Slowking or Fighting coverage on Dusclops to pressure Shiftry / Cacturne.
[RHR] Pokeslice vs Stories [GG]
Very antimeta team because Slice is pretty new to the tier. This Medicham beats Sharpedo and Zard 1v1 with this crazy spread Donphantastic made. Chople Tauros serves as a softcheck to Hitmonchan and Drifblim, with Timid Magneton and Drifblim to win the mirror matchups. Nothing really special about the team but Slowking + Drifblim is a very potent special offense core.
[LL] BeatsBlack vs Stories [GG]
No more lead Tauros (I got it in the back tho). Poliwrath seemed to match up good into the scout and I think this 3 attacks Toxic set is really difficult to take on. even poisoning Slowking or Dusclops before Skunk comes in and threatens Pursuit. Lum Skunk really helps Tauros out, which with Chople can bait Hitmonchan who is pretty tough for this team. Iron Head on Tauros also helps vs Cradily to enable Manectric.
[GG] Stories vs OranBerryBlissey10 [DD]
ngl i robbed the fuck outta OBB here, this team had no way to break stall and this was an auto-loss MU if i didnt turbo hax. There's definitely changes that could be made to help with that MU, CB Shark has potential but was generally disappointing this game.
Finals tiebreak vs dunoks
again lead Glalie with a more refined spread; Icy Wind breaks Tauros sub, lives 2 returns from Tauros, outspeeds -1 speed Tauros, and lives a flame from Charizard. Dusclops is EV'd to OHKO standard Cacturne and Shiftry with Focus Punch, as we definitely expected one of the two to come because I use so much Dusclops (it's the best mon in the tier). Same Poliwrath and Tauros sets as mentioned previously, and Life Orb Shiftry which Amity was ahead of her time for advocating for.
My VR looks something like this, may be forgetting some stuff
[LL] BeatsBlack vs Stories [GG]
SubTox Tauros is historically very good into BeatsBlack scout (I'm the history, I've beaten him twice before with that lead) so I have a pretty simple special offense with lead Tauros. Slowking Cradily Nidoqueen is a really solid defensive core, and NP + Colbur Slowking can effectively lure Dark-types for Drifblim, while Magneton destroys bulky teams that can shrug off Drifblim.
[BU] Hubriz vs Stories [GG]
This team isn't really good as it doesn't have a real wincon outside of Slowking, but it destroys other offense if it can get its foot in the door, otherwise it rlly lacks a lot of basic necessities of a team in this tier, wouldn't recommend it gets used
[DD] OranBerryBlissey10 vs Stories [GG]
More offensive take on my Glalie teams which are generally some kind of semistall. Main premise is SubTox Articuno which beats basically everything except Magneton, so I have Sandslash (which also Spins for Cuno) and Gardevior which can trap Mag. team is very reliant on Spikes but Glalie is very consistent at getting up a layer or two.
[RR] neomon vs Stories [GG]
I think this is the best style of team in the metagame right now (subject to change as the meta changes) but this is the kind of team I recommend to anyone getting into the tier. Spikes really enable Chan to overwhelm Dusclops / Sableye and HP Ground Cacturne is rlly nice to not be passive into Skuntank and Magneton.
[YNY] Ninja vs Stories [GG]
Again a super amazing style of team that is difficult to beat. It is often worth playing a 5v6 if it means Spikes go up with this team. Lost this week due to a misplay in a poor matchup but there's stuff you can run to change matchups, like using Thunder Punch on Licki to pressure Slowking or Fighting coverage on Dusclops to pressure Shiftry / Cacturne.
[RHR] Pokeslice vs Stories [GG]
Very antimeta team because Slice is pretty new to the tier. This Medicham beats Sharpedo and Zard 1v1 with this crazy spread Donphantastic made. Chople Tauros serves as a softcheck to Hitmonchan and Drifblim, with Timid Magneton and Drifblim to win the mirror matchups. Nothing really special about the team but Slowking + Drifblim is a very potent special offense core.
[LL] BeatsBlack vs Stories [GG]
No more lead Tauros (I got it in the back tho). Poliwrath seemed to match up good into the scout and I think this 3 attacks Toxic set is really difficult to take on. even poisoning Slowking or Dusclops before Skunk comes in and threatens Pursuit. Lum Skunk really helps Tauros out, which with Chople can bait Hitmonchan who is pretty tough for this team. Iron Head on Tauros also helps vs Cradily to enable Manectric.
[GG] Stories vs OranBerryBlissey10 [DD]
ngl i robbed the fuck outta OBB here, this team had no way to break stall and this was an auto-loss MU if i didnt turbo hax. There's definitely changes that could be made to help with that MU, CB Shark has potential but was generally disappointing this game.
Finals tiebreak vs dunoks
again lead Glalie with a more refined spread; Icy Wind breaks Tauros sub, lives 2 returns from Tauros, outspeeds -1 speed Tauros, and lives a flame from Charizard. Dusclops is EV'd to OHKO standard Cacturne and Shiftry with Focus Punch, as we definitely expected one of the two to come because I use so much Dusclops (it's the best mon in the tier). Same Poliwrath and Tauros sets as mentioned previously, and Life Orb Shiftry which Amity was ahead of her time for advocating for.
My VR looks something like this, may be forgetting some stuff
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S: regi skunk tauros
A+: clops slowking chan drifblim slowking medi zard shiftry
A: vileplume shark ampha cradily nidoqueen poliwrath
A-: cacturne gard manectric sandslash typh meganium haunter
B+: politoed jynx sableye glalie licky ninetales victreebell gastro hypno electrode
B: gligar golem magmortar camerupt
Below: persian, muk, lapras, monferno, machoke, linoone, hypno
Lead vr:
S: Shark
A: Floatzel, Tauros, Regi, ampharos, zard, medi, poliwrath, slowking
B: chan, nidoqueen, venomot, vileplume, jynx, pinsir
C: gardevoir, monferno, typh, victrebell, roselia, machoke
A+: clops slowking chan drifblim slowking medi zard shiftry
A: vileplume shark ampha cradily nidoqueen poliwrath
A-: cacturne gard manectric sandslash typh meganium haunter
B+: politoed jynx sableye glalie licky ninetales victreebell gastro hypno electrode
B: gligar golem magmortar camerupt
Below: persian, muk, lapras, monferno, machoke, linoone, hypno
Lead vr:
S: Shark
A: Floatzel, Tauros, Regi, ampharos, zard, medi, poliwrath, slowking
B: chan, nidoqueen, venomot, vileplume, jynx, pinsir
C: gardevoir, monferno, typh, victrebell, roselia, machoke
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I don't really know how to build for this tier, so the two teams I used in playoffs were the only ones I built myself, with everything else being from Sirwings.
https://pokepast.es/f6c7d11bd2de2fcf
This team was actually built for week 7 vs elodin, but I liked it so I used for semis. SpDef Meganium with Aroma + SD sounds weird since Grass is horrible for mono coverage, but it can set up on Dusclops, doesn't care about switching into Toxic/TWave from Slowking, and can counter a lot of special attackers, like Magneton, Sharpedo and Ampharos. Regi + Dusclops is the tier's best 2 mon defensive core, walling a big part of the metagame, and Dusclops makes sure SR stays up to wear down the Fire types that wall Meganium. Lead Slowking with 3 attacks can trade with almost any other lead, especially since Custap isn't expected. Tauros and Scarf Magneton finish the team with speed control. Scarf Mag also isn't common, but it's extra insurance vs Linoone and Scarf Explosion can be an emergency button vs some set up sweepers that gets out of control. NP Shiftry is a threat for this team, since it gets nearly free entry on Dusclops and Meganium isn't able to beat it 1v1. Vileplume and Victrebell are also dangerous.
https://pokepast.es/4a713b78c1492e7c
I actually disliked this team, and was planning to use a revamp of my week 6 team until 40 minutes before the game, but neomon suggested this was better. Lead Lum Hitmonchan was chosen for its good matchup vs lead Glalie, Lapras, Venomoth (Lum + avoids 2HKO) and Floatzel, which were all on Hubriz's scout. Chesto Rest was useful to allow Regi to switch freely into Clops and set up SR early, while also being able to switch into Jynx if necessary with the SpDef being enough to avoid the 3HKO from Ice Beam. The SpDef EVs on RestTalk Clops allow it to wall Lapras, which is rare but Hubriz had used quite a few times. SpDef Vileplume finishes the defensive core handling Magneton, Ampharos, Shiftry, and offensive waters, with Tauros and Floatzel providing speed control. NP Slowking was the main threat, with the SpDef walls being unable to really damage it, and Cacturne was also a worry since it could come in freely on Clops and Regi to set up Spikes.
btw this is my personal VR now
https://pokepast.es/f6c7d11bd2de2fcf
This team was actually built for week 7 vs elodin, but I liked it so I used for semis. SpDef Meganium with Aroma + SD sounds weird since Grass is horrible for mono coverage, but it can set up on Dusclops, doesn't care about switching into Toxic/TWave from Slowking, and can counter a lot of special attackers, like Magneton, Sharpedo and Ampharos. Regi + Dusclops is the tier's best 2 mon defensive core, walling a big part of the metagame, and Dusclops makes sure SR stays up to wear down the Fire types that wall Meganium. Lead Slowking with 3 attacks can trade with almost any other lead, especially since Custap isn't expected. Tauros and Scarf Magneton finish the team with speed control. Scarf Mag also isn't common, but it's extra insurance vs Linoone and Scarf Explosion can be an emergency button vs some set up sweepers that gets out of control. NP Shiftry is a threat for this team, since it gets nearly free entry on Dusclops and Meganium isn't able to beat it 1v1. Vileplume and Victrebell are also dangerous.
https://pokepast.es/4a713b78c1492e7c
I actually disliked this team, and was planning to use a revamp of my week 6 team until 40 minutes before the game, but neomon suggested this was better. Lead Lum Hitmonchan was chosen for its good matchup vs lead Glalie, Lapras, Venomoth (Lum + avoids 2HKO) and Floatzel, which were all on Hubriz's scout. Chesto Rest was useful to allow Regi to switch freely into Clops and set up SR early, while also being able to switch into Jynx if necessary with the SpDef being enough to avoid the 3HKO from Ice Beam. The SpDef EVs on RestTalk Clops allow it to wall Lapras, which is rare but Hubriz had used quite a few times. SpDef Vileplume finishes the defensive core handling Magneton, Ampharos, Shiftry, and offensive waters, with Tauros and Floatzel providing speed control. NP Slowking was the main threat, with the SpDef walls being unable to really damage it, and Cacturne was also a worry since it could come in freely on Clops and Regi to set up Spikes.
btw this is my personal VR now
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I promised myself I'd post a DPP NU VR at some point, my thoughts have changed a lil bit over this past DPPPL and I think I have a list that I feel fine posting even though as I was making the VR i was constantly telling myself "is this right? eh we'll fix it in post", so heres my personal VR:
And just for good measure, heres a couple teams I won with in the DPPPL season!
https://pokepast.es/d139cf517349227a
https://pokepast.es/f517205aa27e1202
Current thoughts:
- Chan Spikes is one of the best if not THE best team archetype in the meta. Chan is a ridiculously good wallbreaker with hazards wearing down its only real checks and pairs well with the bevvy of other hazard abusers (including the best rocks setter Regirock).
- Dusclops definitely deserves a VR rise now that the offensive set has been put to use more and with how much progress it makes on a consistent game-to-game basis.
- I undervalued Floatzel before but I find myself using it a bit more and both the Toxic and Bulk Up sets have made me a bit keener on using it as a Water when I'm not using Slowking, which is more often due to Slowking's weakness to hazards and Skunk trapping.
- Rhydon is good, especially with more Dusclops running around the Sub set should pick up in use.
- Ninetales > Magmortar, speed advantage and better matchup into other fires and Dusclops make it a better choice imo.
- Regice rocks on super offensive structures.
- Machoke and Electabuzz are decent leads and I'd honestly rather use them over Pinsir, idk what Pinsir is meant to do in current lead meta.
And just for good measure, heres a couple teams I won with in the DPPPL season!
https://pokepast.es/d139cf517349227a https://pokepast.es/f517205aa27e1202Current thoughts:
- Chan Spikes is one of the best if not THE best team archetype in the meta. Chan is a ridiculously good wallbreaker with hazards wearing down its only real checks and pairs well with the bevvy of other hazard abusers (including the best rocks setter Regirock).
- Dusclops definitely deserves a VR rise now that the offensive set has been put to use more and with how much progress it makes on a consistent game-to-game basis.
- I undervalued Floatzel before but I find myself using it a bit more and both the Toxic and Bulk Up sets have made me a bit keener on using it as a Water when I'm not using Slowking, which is more often due to Slowking's weakness to hazards and Skunk trapping.
- Rhydon is good, especially with more Dusclops running around the Sub set should pick up in use.
- Ninetales > Magmortar, speed advantage and better matchup into other fires and Dusclops make it a better choice imo.
- Regice rocks on super offensive structures.
- Machoke and Electabuzz are decent leads and I'd honestly rather use them over Pinsir, idk what Pinsir is meant to do in current lead meta.
i'm lucky and bad, here are the teams I used. I would only consider the gastro and meganium teams viable since they can switch into subrise or scarf magneton. Really hate that thing. Gonna start loading up RestTalk Amphy pretty soon
Week 1 vs etern (Cramrabias)
Lead Garde has some nice, flexible lead MUs, but still tinkering with it to see if its the most ideal spread of EVs/moves. Choiced Typh helps cover some of the more negative ones (primarily the uncommon sleep lead). The Float should be a water with some more heft to it, but I opted for the speed. I seldom use Shiftry, and when I do it's always mixed, so I figured a change of pace with SD would be nice. Sub + Lum is a bit redundant but Sub is mostly for punishing people trying to play around Sucker. Lum gives you the one chance to setup in front of some status, which may give you a route to then get a free sub on following attempt. Chople Regi for fighters + normal Drifblim to round out.
Week 2 vs elodin (Fossils)
Lead Regi as I was expecting something like ToxBull or a sleep lead. Lorb Shark + Ebelt Mane is an offensive pairing I've had before, as they both can be difficult to switch around with some standard cores due to raw damage output/coverage. Clops is pretty necessary as a stopgap to Tauros and Hitmonchan, as they both smoke the above pair without much effort. Meganium is by far the best Ground resist and can help eliminate Skunktank for my own Clops, aside from just being a good SD mon. Scarf Skunk is prob the best partner you can have with Meganium, at least imo.
Week 3 vs Void (Glastriers)
Lead Amphy is a similar catch all to Garde, with a lot more oomph and bs that can follow in its wake. SD Pinsir is a mon I wanted to try out, and Void typically brings teams that are slow enough for it + don't like its combination of Bug/Ground (Outside of Zard, I got p much the exact MU I was aiming for here as SD + Lum gives Dusclops some trouble). Plot Shiftry with Sucker as an option for the many revenge killers that plague this mon. Lorb Float is nice for speed control + p difficult to switch around when using non-dedicated checks to it. Similar Regi to W1, scarf Haunter to clean up.
Week 4 vs Sirwings (Krabs)
My first lead Medi and p fond of it after seeing the lines it can take at the start. Some nice info gathering with Fake Out is very nice to start a game with vs stuff like Tauros or Floatzel. Brought back special Shark, as something I haven't used in quite a long time. Mainly wanted to have that Ebelt Ice Beam to throw out on someone expecting the typical Lorb set I bring. PhysDef Plume + ChestoRegi + Gastro seems like a very sturdy core to me, can maybe tweak Gastro to have a more punishing click into stuff like Grasses, as base 92 SpA isn't bad by any means. Scarf Bull is speed control ofc, and I wanted something faster than Mane anyway as HP Grass sets could still be iffy into the team.
Week 5 vs Expulso (Fujins)
My usual lead Bull to cover most MUs as possible, as is something I try to aim for with these. Fast Queen for neutral speed 70s and overall solid Rocker. Crad + Slowking are solid defensive pieces, although the Slowking here is a bit more offensively oriented with Plot. Wacan for surprising fighters w/ Tpunch coverage and Elecs in a pinch. Despite its reputation, I don't bring Hitmonchan often. Figured now would be a good time to throw it in as Crad + Queen are fairly weak + the team lacks explosive power behind it, which Chan brings a lot of. Scarf Mane another set I don't use too much, but figured I put it back on my radar.
Week 6 vs toshimelonhead (Wochiens)
still hate Zard. Regi x Meganium x Scarf Skunk core. Used Spin Hitmon because I had to with Lorb Zard. Mwater Float is p sick and bypasses some shitty rolls, can't go wrong with it.
Week 7 vs Hubriz (Steels)
Lead Pinsir is my goat, but I will start using Scarf CC/Rock Slide at some point to dissuade stuff like Tauros or Zard from staying in. Back Glalie is a not that hard to get in early, plenty of fatter things you come in and Spike on. Lum + Taunt can mess with status guys as well, giving you more room to Spike. SubDon was for some combatting some decent Dusclops usage + benefits a lot with the extra chip for specific mons ie Slowking and Meganium w/ Megahorn. It's also my obligatory Rhydon use. Magneton and Drif are two more Subbers that are difficult to respond to with Spikes up. Float is speed control as always.
Semis vs Sirwings (Krabs)
Brought my first lead CB Bull as a surprise, with Cac Spikes to support it into Cradily/Clops. Standard Regi and Lorb Medi. Veno's above average speed + spammable Bug Buzz with Spikes + Sleep seemed like a deadly combination to play around, especially if lacking something like Zard or Drif. Scarf Skunk is great compression between Pursuit trapping Haunter, dealing with Drifblim, and being general speed control with emergency fast boom.
Finals vs Void (Glastriers)
Like above, I used SubTox Bull for the first time as well aiming to catch my opponent off guard. Thought doubling up on a Tauros lead back-to-back would also be unexpected. Lorb Shark is the only priority here but hits very hard regardless. Lum Skunk was for forcing Colbur pops on Slowking without being trashed by Twave on the way in — also helps with Wisp Clops. As I use Scarf Skunk like 90% of the time when I bring this guy, being able to boom at a moment's notice was something I figured would be great to have as well. Clops handles the usual annoyances between fighters + general status, while Cradily is the sturdy stopgap to Drifblim/Mane/waters. Both being able to deal with Tauros with much effort is nice as well, letting you fall back on one or the other. Scarf Garde can trap Magneton (assuming they're MagPull) but also packs a nice punch for a scarfer. Resisting Mach + Trick are great tools for it.
Personal VR I suppose, although frankly there's a ton of viable Mons in the tier that it's somewhat hard to be certain on some things. Stuff I ranked earlier prob would be shifted a bit higher or lower. Top 3 rows can be assorted differently depending on what's currently fucking me, so hard to nail down on my ideal rankings. That said, Skuntank only gets S because the Scarf set solves like 80% of my issues when building. I'll prob change my mind on something here by tomorrow anyway.
CB Head Smash claims lives (only a few sturdy resists + Mr base 200 def can tank a hit) and BP Float gives this thing plenty of targets to come in on. Getting into this position should be securing you a kill almost all the time or creating a massive gap in the opponent's defensive core that can be abused as the game progresses. Especially brutal early game as your opponent will have very little info on what they may need to keep for later. Rank this C or B-, idc. Its def got more of noteworthy niche than Metang or Machoke imo lol.