DPP OU Checks Compendium (Major W.I.P)

[Shadow_Sneak]

Hey so I am kind of stealing this from PO but I will be adding something that looks like the ORAS OU Compendium. I will be updating this but for right now it is going to be blank for the most part.I am going to need help with this so post checks/counters to mons below.

REQUIRED READING

• I have decided to base this list off of the recent world cup usage stats as those seem to be an accurate representation of where the tier is. I have decided to include defensive pokemon in this list to give people options for wallbreaker, may remove.
• Checks are separated by guaranteed switch-ins (GSI), situational switch-ins (SSI), and non-switch-ins (NSI). These categories are explained in detail below.
• I only consider fairly standard and common sets when talking about both the threats and their checks.
• I will go more in-depth with each mons sets later this first post will be just general check/counters.
• I am only human I make mistakes. I am going to be using the dpp ou viability rankings for finding checks to each mon. I am trying to make the most compact resource of checks and counters that I can for this tier. I also plan to go with less obscure mons when I am done with the main things.

Categories

There are three categories that the checks will be divided into for each entry.

• Guaranteed Switch-Ins (GSI): These Pokemon can switch into basically anything a threat can throw at them and win the matchup, within reason. They may only be able to switch in safely one or two times, or they may only be able to switch in with certain sets, so that'll be up to the player's discretion. When evaluating which moves a check must be able to switch into, I'll only consider moves that (A) are included as main set slashes on a Pokemon's analysis page, or (B) are at least common enough to show up on a Pokemon's 1825 moveset statistics entry. Anything else will be considered niche or uncommon enough that a check won't have to worry about it too often.

• Situational Switch-Ins (SSI): These Pokemon can switch in safely under certain circumstances, but not always. Pokemon in this category can either switch safely into some variants of a threat but struggle against others, or they struggle with common coverage moves but can at least switch into a threat's STABs and other moves commonly used on switches (such as boosting moves and Knock Off) and win the matchup. This is somewhat of a "gray area" category, so there's a bit of flexibility here.

• Non-Switch-Ins (NSI): These Pokemon cannot switch safely into a certain threat, generally because they are beaten by one of the threat's STABs, lose if they switch in on a boosting move, etc. Pokemon in this category can, however, defeat a threat in a 1-on-1 matchup. This includes faster revenge killers, as well as Pokemon that can take a single hit and KO back.

S Rank

Jirachi

Checks and Counters

SSI:

NSI:

Tyranitar

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Starmie

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Rotom-W

Checks and Counters

SSI:

NSI:

Rotom-H

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Heatran S

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:

NSI:

Dragonite (Done) A+

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:

NSI:

Zapdos A+ (Done)

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Infernape A+ (Done)

Checks and Counters

SSI:

NSI:

Metagross A (Done)

Checks and Counters

SSI:

NSI:

Swampert A (Done)

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Flygon A (Complete)

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Gliscor (done)

Checks and Counters

NONE

jk

GSI:

SSI:

(Ice Fang)

NSI:

Empoleon (done)

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Gyarados (done)

Checks and Counters

SSI:

NSI:

Magnezone (under update)

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Shaymin

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Azelf

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Roserade

Checks and Counters

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

Scizor

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:

NSI:

Breloom

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Celebi

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Hippowdon

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Blissey

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Clefable

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Kingdra

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Machamp

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Aerodactyl

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Bronzong

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Lucario

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Nidoqueen

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Venusaur

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Froslass

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Tentacruel

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Abomasnow

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Cresselia

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Feraligatr

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Hitmontop

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Lanturn

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Mamoswine

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Milotic

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Porygon-Z

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Snorlax

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Suicune

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Togekiss

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Uxie

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Vaporeon

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Weavile

Checks and Counters

GSI:


SSI:


NSI:

Any more mons I should add or remove? Tell me below. Yes I know it looks ugly for right now but I will start to embellish it with sprites tomorrow.

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

S-B+ Rank Offensive/Misc Threats (W.I.P.)
VC=Very Common, C=Common, SN=Seen Now and Then, U=Uncommon.

S Rank

Tyranitar

Checks/Counters

Dragon Dance (VC)
GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Scarf (VC)
GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Band (C)

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mixed Lead / Mixed Attacker (C)
GSI:
SSI:

NSI:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lure (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curse (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyraniboah (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jirachi

Checks/Counters

Superachi (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Scarf (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Substitute + Paralysis (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wish + Calm Mind (C)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Substitute + Calm Mind (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mixed Attacker (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Specs (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heatran

Checks/Counters

Offensive Support (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Scarf (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life Orb (C)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Specs (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trapper (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Metal Sound (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Substitute (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Torment (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Starmie

Checks/Counters

Life Orb (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Specs (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Scarf (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A+

Zapdos

Checks/Counters

Choice Specs (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life Orb (C)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subroost (C)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Scarf (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baton Pass (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rotom-A

Checks/Counters

Choice Scarf (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Specs (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subsplit (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subcharge (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dragonite

Checks/Counters

Mixed Attacker (VC)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Offensive Dragon Dance (C)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Choice Band (C)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bulky Dragon Dance (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agility (SN)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Offensive Cleric (U)
GSI:
SSI:
NSI:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Breloom

Scizor

Infernape

Gliscor

A

Gengar

Lucario

Gyarados

Flygon

Metagross

Shaymin

Celebi

Azelf

A-

Aerodactyl

Machamp

Empoleon

Suicune

Kingdra

Roserade

B+

Magnezone

Bronzong

Clefable

Abomasnow

Mamoswine

Jolteon

Crobat

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

Lesser Threats

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

Wallbreaking Check/Counters Compendium

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I think it's a useful tool, but the GSI lists need to be changed for the few current guys.

As mentioned, Jirachi. You can't counter it without knowing the set first. It has a million sets and has the ability to screw anything in the game. Blissey is certainly not a guaranteed switch because it can get tricked, U-Turned on, para/flinch haxed, or even beaten by CM when running Toxic over T-Wave (CM+Wish especially). Same deal for any other switch in. Therefore, no GSIs for it.

Remove Swampert as GSI for Tyranitar. It needs to watch out for CB Crunch, as well as DD LO Crunch (EQ doesn't kill even after LO recoil). That's why I think lists like these need rankings under SSI, because some situations are different than others (Swampert vs Tyranitar is like the line between guaranteed and situational).

*Edit*

Jirachi can only switch in to LO Starmie if it's SpDef. Every other set is taken out by Hydro Pump.

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

Updates: Removed GSI from Rachi, removed skarmory and swampert from starmie switchins, Moved rachi into SSI for starmie, removed swampert from tar GSI to SSI. Removed Rotom-Fan, and Rotom-Mow

I think its better to mention ways to deal with ALL versions of the mon like in the pokedex

• I will go more in-depth with each mons sets later this first post will be just general check/counters.

 

[Funbot28]

Is HP Ground really that popular on Jirachi not to make Heatran a GSI?

 

[BKC]

ground superachi is very prominent, yes. there's also the fact that non-leftovers tran sets are generally none too appreciative of paralysis + iron head flinch fun which piles up quickly in conjunction with sr, they have to be more careful about switching in. the offensive sets have sub and the defensive sets can take an unboosted fire blast.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Yeah, Heatran was one of the main engines behind Superachi's use and effectiveness in DPP back in 2010 and still stands today. The set is noted as one that usually beats Jirachi's main counters with the coverage move choices (mainly Hidden Power), Heatran bring one of them. Disregard hax, HP Ground variants will alway beat it one-on-one.

Anyways, sets do need to be listed. Heatran is the safest switch on none Rotom-W forms, but still needs to watch for T-Wave, Pain Split, boosted Thunderbolts, and Substitute (people choose formes just to throw you off too). On the other hand, Umbreon is crippled by Trick, same way as other Special walls. Tyranitar can be burned on the switch or paralyzed, etc.

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

we still got a lot to go but I am still doing this project in my own time.

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

any more things that I should fix?

 

[Apollo.]

Okay :


For Empoleon, you forgot Roserade as SSI.
For Gyarados, remove the shuca mention with Jirachi, If we reason like that, it will mean that anything with Shuca berry can be used as check to it (which is true but its not a super-switch in). However, Jirachi is still a good check without it since it have a resistence to main Gyarados STAB and to Stone Edge. Gyarados too is a SSI to it, Jolteon too since it can outspeed bulky Gyarados even after an Dragon Dance.
For Magnezone, Dugtrio is a SSI in my opinion since it can come on Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Fire and Toxic and then trapkill Magnezone.
For Infernape, Quagsire, Kingdra and Crobat are all SSI to it. Donphan a little bit.
For Zapdos, Abomasnow isn't a SSI to it; its very very rare to see a non-heat wave Zapdos, even on Defensive variant.


Remove Rotom-H, its not because it doesn't have acces to Hydro Pump so it can't hurt his checks; Tyranitar hate WoW (which is very common on Sub/Defensive Rotom-H), Heatran isn't a GSI because only Specially Defensive can be a full counter to him since other variant doesn't like LO Thunderbolt.

 

[Lord Ninjax]

A bunch of things to bring up:
Zapdos and Dragonite should be removed from Jirachi checks, I mean they both have SE moves but without a choice item they fail to OHKO even uninvested Jirachi, while they also hate SR, sand and the painful Psychic. Dragonite is also outsped which limits its options, and the SpDef variant can outstall both. Shaymin and Nidoqueen fall into the same category in that they don't kill and they're gonna probably get punished for trying. Scizor is also kinda meh cause it doesn't do much back (unless it's the bulky SD variant but let's be honest there are better things to set up on: Jirachi can also abuse Para/IHead to waste a ton of roosts) and again it fears Fire Punch/HP Fire. Same with Suicune, as if Jirachi is CM then you'll just set-up alongside and Jirachi will win cause it has the SE move, while if it isn't then it'll wear Cune down with repeated attacks/status/IHead flinch, and the SpDef set just owns it straight up. Being able to switch-in to something isn't enough, you also have to pose a realistic threat to it which none of these really do when coming in on this.

Dragonite and Flygon (plus maybe Gliscor) should move up to full SSI for Heatran, as HP Ice isn't common (unless on Scarf but they're almost certainly gonna throw out a Fire Blast turn one like they're supposed to, and Dragonite/Flygon can sponge one or two with a lil bulk investment. Explosion kills but it does the same to every other SSI, plus Heatran's dead too so the Dragon's technically done its job in checking it!). They both outspeed so Heatran is forced out and that's a win too. It's not perfect but I think SSI is fair.

Remove Blissey from SSI for Dragonite, the Mixed set superpowers it into oblivion while the DDer/CB set just rolls over it. Abomasnow should not be an SSI for Zap cause the only set I wouldn't run Heat Wave on is SubRoost which is just going to Toxic you and stall you out, make it an NSI. Crobat is also in no way a Metagross check, remove it.

Add Gengar to Infernape NSI, could be SSI. Roserade as an SSI for Empoleon. Gliscor is a GSI for Flygon as SpDef Gliscor just chokes on its laughter at MixNite (let alone MixGon).

Gyarados and Jirachi should be SSI for Gyarados as WishCM Jirachi just lives a +1 LO EQ from Gyarados or a LO Waterfall+EQ unboosted, while revenging with TBolt. Likewise Gyarados cannot win a mirror match without Stone Edge, which should qualify it for SSI.

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

Okay :


For Empoleon, you forgot Roserade as SSI.
For Gyarados, remove the shuca mention with Jirachi, If we reason like that, it will mean that anything with Shuca berry can be used as check to it (which is true but its not a super-switch in). However, Jirachi is still a good check without it since it have a resistence to main Gyarados STAB and to Stone Edge. Gyarados too is a SSI to it, Jolteon too since it can outspeed bulky Gyarados even after an Dragon Dance.
For Magnezone, Dugtrio is a SSI in my opinion since it can come on Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Fire and Toxic and then trapkill Magnezone.
For Infernape, Quagsire, Kingdra and Crobat are all SSI to it. Donphan a little bit.
For Zapdos, Abomasnow isn't a SSI to it; its very very rare to see a non-heat wave Zapdos, even on Defensive variant.


Remove Rotom-H, its not because it doesn't have acces to Hydro Pump so it can't hurt his checks; Tyranitar hate WoW (which is very common on Sub/Defensive Rotom-H), Heatran isn't a GSI because only Specially Defensive can be a full counter to him since other variant doesn't like LO Thunderbolt.

A bunch of things to bring up:
Zapdos and Dragonite should be removed from Jirachi checks, I mean they both have SE moves but without a choice item they fail to OHKO even uninvested Jirachi, while they also hate SR, sand and the painful Psychic. Dragonite is also outsped which limits its options, and the SpDef variant can outstall both. Shaymin and Nidoqueen fall into the same category in that they don't kill and they're gonna probably get punished for trying. Scizor is also kinda meh cause it doesn't do much back (unless it's the bulky SD variant but let's be honest there are better things to set up on: Jirachi can also abuse Para/IHead to waste a ton of roosts) and again it fears Fire Punch/HP Fire. Same with Suicune, as if Jirachi is CM then you'll just set-up alongside and Jirachi will win cause it has the SE move, while if it isn't then it'll wear Cune down with repeated attacks/status/IHead flinch, and the SpDef set just owns it straight up. Being able to switch-in to something isn't enough, you also have to pose a realistic threat to it which none of these really do when coming in on this.

Dragonite and Flygon (plus maybe Gliscor) should move up to full SSI for Heatran, as HP Ice isn't common (unless on Scarf but they're almost certainly gonna throw out a Fire Blast turn one like they're supposed to, and Dragonite/Flygon can sponge one or two with a lil bulk investment. Explosion kills but it does the same to every other SSI, plus Heatran's dead too so the Dragon's technically done its job in checking it!). They both outspeed so Heatran is forced out and that's a win too. It's not perfect but I think SSI is fair.

Remove Blissey from SSI for Dragonite, the Mixed set superpowers it into oblivion while the DDer/CB set just rolls over it. Abomasnow should not be an SSI for Zap cause the only set I wouldn't run Heat Wave on is SubRoost which is just going to Toxic you and stall you out, make it an NSI. Crobat is also in no way a Metagross check, remove it.

Add Gengar to Infernape NSI, could be SSI. Roserade as an SSI for Empoleon. Gliscor is a GSI for Flygon as SpDef Gliscor just chokes on its laughter at MixNite (let alone MixGon).

Gyarados and Jirachi should be SSI for Gyarados as WishCM Jirachi just lives a +1 LO EQ from Gyarados or a LO Waterfall+EQ unboosted, while revenging with TBolt. Likewise Gyarados cannot win a mirror match without Stone Edge, which should qualify it for SSI.

done