Announcement DPP OU Sleep Suspect Test

[Excal]

*Make sure to read the ground rules before posting!*

Hi all,

Recently, a survey went out to qualified participants which asked if they would support a sleep ban. The criteria for who was surveyed was as follows:

1. Those who are a member of the DPP Council
2. Those who qualify to vote for a suspect based on 2025 requirements
3. Those who laddered for the Machamp suspect last year and qualified for requirements
4. Those who participated in the main event of DPP Revival

46/52 people responded to the survey and the results were as follows:

67.4% of participants supported a Sleep ban, while 69.2% of participants who already qualify to vote supported a Sleep ban.

This survey occurred due to voiced concerns from several SPL players as well as the DPP community from both previous surveys, discussion in the DPP discord server, as well as discussion in the DPP Council channel. While the council is divided on whether Sleep should be banned or not, we nearly unanimously agree that elements of Sleep (especially Spore) are problematic/suspect worthy.

Most people who supported a Sleep ban in the survey felt that the mechanic is fundamentally unhealthy due to the RNG associated with it and that DPP lacks the resources to compensate for it. The main offender is Spore Breloom, which has a 100% accurate Sleep move, 130 base Attack, and limited switchins that, besides Gliscor and physically defensive Jirachi, are weak to Stealth Rock and/or trappable by Tyranitar (and in Jirachi's case, trappable by Magnezone). The overall sentiment is that every style is limited by Sleep, although some argue whether Offense or Balance/Stall is more limited.

Others who oppose the Sleep ban feel that Sleep is an important piece to help break more balanced and defensive structures, or that it is not broken enough to warrant a ban. Some also feel that other less relevant users of Sleep, like Sleep Powder Roserade, Hypnosis Bronzong, and Sing Clefable are worth preserving.

SOME GROUND RULES FOR POSTING IN THIS THREAD: Failure to follow these rules will result in an infraction.
1. Trolling will be zero tolerance.
2. Keep the focus strictly on Sleep. Do not complain with bad faith that other aspects of DPP are not being looked into. Do not derail this thread by discussing other aspects of DPP unrelated to Sleep.
3. This will not result in an immediate infraction, but posts that imply that Breloom will be banned or that we will be losing Breloom will be deleted. This has been a misconception in the DPP discord and we do not wish for misinformation to be spread in this thread. Breloom is still very much usable in a metagame without Sleep.
4. Do not mention the issue of complex bans nor suggest that we should only ban Spore. The DPP Council is not allowed to act on Spore alone due to tiering policy issues. If you wish to advocate for a change in policy, do so in Policy Review, not here.

Anyone who has met any of the below thresholds is automatically qualified to vote from tournament placements.

1) 6+ games or 3+ wins in SPL XVI
2) DPP Cup XI top 8
3) Finals of DPP Seasonals/Globals this year
4) Overall 2025 DPP Circuit top 16

A list of qualified voters can be seen below:

Spoiler

Void, BKC, Groudon, Christos, Lady Bug, Laurel, Pkel SweeTforU, crucify, We Three Kings, Dridri457, ABR, Tenebricite, PDC, OU Analysis, harshest, Dababy2, elodin, pixie909, Airi, Marshall.Law, Tizio Potente Ao, Pideous, Kristyl, monchooo, Sossa, 199 Lives, SFG, mien, Track

We will be offering a ladder component for community members to have a chance to vote who do not immediately qualify. Here's how to qualify for ladder requirements:

• Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in DPP OU before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played DPP OU before the test, full stop.)
• At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
• You must have a minimum ELO of 1600, with a minimum GXE of 85
• This suspect test will last 9 days, concluding on Sunday, January 4th at 11:59 PM GMT-5, after which a voting thread will be created. This thread will remain open for discussion about this suspect ONLY, not other potential bans.
• Check here to see if you have reqs.
• If you have any questions about this process, feel free to PM me or post here!

 

[steve22]

I’ve been a vocal opponent of this ban in Discord, and I want to clearly lay out my perspective. Before starting, I want to acknowledge an obvious point: Breloom usage would almost certainly decline if Sleep were banned. I’ll also be focusing exclusively on Breloom, as other Sleep users are not meaningfully relevant to this discussion.

1. The metagame is currently in a very good place

Since the Machamp ban, the general sentiment among active DPP players has been that the metagame is healthy, expressive, and as enjoyable as it has been in years. Balance, bulky offense, and semi-stall are common and effective, while both hard stall and HO remain viable. Overall, there are no clearly dominant structures or broken team cores.

Given this context, removing the primary defining tool of an S-tier Pokémon would be a very significant change. The ripple effects of a Sleep ban are difficult to fully predict and would likely take a long time to stabilize. In a metagame that many players already enjoy, I think it’s worth asking whether such a major intervention is truly necessary.

2. Stall will be too good if sleep is banned

Breloom functions as the primary offensive engine for many balance builds. If Sleep-reliant sets are removed, Pokémon like Clefable gain substantial leverage against common Zapdos / Heatran / Starmie cores and FWG-based structures, which would meaningfully strengthen stall across the board.

I am not arguing that Breloom would disappear entirely, rather its role would change. What I expect is a shift toward defensive Breloom on stall, paired with Hippo and the other stall staples. However, Breloom would not be able to carry balance in the stall matchup anymore. It would be completely walled by mons like defensive lati.

It is hard for me to envision a meta where balance can meaningfully compete with stall as a dominant style without sleep.

3. Sleep on Breloom is well-designed and healthy

Breloom, the most significant Sleep user by far, is clearly designed around access to Sleep. It is slow and frail, but powerful enough to punish passive play and force meaningful interaction. In the DPP meta, it does what it was intended to do.

While Sleep does introduce variance, wake-up differences are not unusually disruptive relative to other accepted mechanics in the tier. The level of randomness involved is comparable to common moves like Fire Blast or Hydro Pump and fits within the odds-based nature of Pokémon as a game. Importantly, Breloom is not the best Pokémon in the metagame, nor is it overwhelmingly dominant in all matchups.

Addressing two common arguments

“Sleep is just as limiting to offense as it is to stall.”
In practice, Breloom struggles much more against offensive teams. It is frail, slow, and easily revenge-killed, with few safe entry points against aggressive structures. These limitations are a core part of its design and matchup spread.

“Breloom is too difficult to build against.”
If this were the central issue, a Breloom suspect would make more sense than a mechanic-wide ban. Breloom isn't out of line with the amount of prep any top-tier threat demands in any metagame. Preparing for major threats is an expected part of pokemon.

If this were a good argument, we would be doing a Breloom suspect, not a sleep suspect. Latias is equally hard to build against, if not harder, but we would never ban it. It is the top threat in the metagame. Literally just learn to build against it.

I will admit my bias here
Like half my teams have Breloom and I don't want to half of my builder in the garbage. I know I don't wanna use that shit without sleep.

 

[Incognition]

I'm mixed about this one - whilst the combination of Breloom + Spore is incredibly strong and undeniably buffs Breloom as an A+/S tier mon in the meta, I don't feel like we should punish every Pokemon with access to a sleep move purely because of Breloom.

As far as I'm aware, the only generation where sleep was banned was BW (e.g. BW OU), primarily because sleep turns would reset when you switched out, which was far more justifiable for a ban.

While I agree about the main checks to Breloom being vulnerable to being trapped by Tyranitar (e.g. Latias/Gengar/Rotom) - I believe there are ways around it (e.g. Sleep Talk/Lum Berry/Taunt) while also having teams that apply enough pressure so Breloom is unable to utilise Spore freely (usually against far slower teams etc).

Personally, I'm not a fan of Spore and can see why it's really strong, but I wouldn't ban the whole sleep mechanic, especially since there won't be any complex bans.

My opinion: Do not ban.