Gen 4 [DPP OU] TormentTran

Hi everyone, this is a quick TormentTran team that I have created but just want advice on how to improve it. I have had some success on the Showdown ladder (Managed to get to like top 50, but then dipped back down).

1664994709309.png
1664994724208.png
1664994759710.png
1664994774047.png
1664994786813.png
1664994806791.png


Team in detail:


1665016313416.png


Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Slack Off

Description: Hippowdon immediately sets up sand which helps with the TormentTran chip damage. She also provides general bulk in addition to SR and Roar for more chip damage. Nothing too much to say here. Hippowdon is a useful pokemon that I like to keep alive as long as possible. Her Sand Stream ability also helps immensely versus Rain Dance teams, which would otherwise run through this team like a hot knife through butter.


1664995225333.png

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Grass Knot

Description: In my opinion Roserade is a bit frail but if I can get her in behind say a Reflect or another advantageous situation, getting up a layer of Spikes or two is very helpful because all of the switches that Heatran tends to cause. I also like to scout the team before setting up Toxic Spikes, because the Toxic Spikes are necessary only for Blissey/Swampert/Vaporeon/Suicune (non-RestTalk variants), and many teams are almost fully resistant to T-Spikes anyway. Leech Seed is surprisingly good against Blissey while I set up, it restores like 30% health and otherwise contributes to chip damage.


1664995481961.png

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Description: My first trickster. As we all know, it is pretty much impossible to play a choiced pokemon against TormentTran once he has a sub up. So getting the Scarf onto another Pokemon is generally useful. Other than Tyranitar, Rotom tends to attract special walls like Blissey and Clefable. Getting a scarf onto them (especially Clefable) makes life much easier for TormentTran. Other than tricking, Rotom has some utility as a spin-blocker and revenge-killer.


1664995725243.png

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Trick

Description: The second trickster. Like I said, the more opponents who are locked into one move, the better. Jirachi also performs scouting with U-turn, and Iron Head works well late-game when the other team is weakened (especially with Sandstorm + Poison). Ice Punch is just for additional coverage. Nothing too much to say here.


1664996004530.png

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Reflect
- Recover
- Healing Wish

Description: Latias fills certain defensive holes such as Breloom and Infernape. This set I have had success with. Reflect helps with getting in Roserade and Heatran easier in certain situations, and helps them set-up the entry hazards or substitute. Recover is self-explanatory. Healing Wish is a move that has actually saved me late game a few times. For example if Heatran is paralyzed, or low health, Healing Wish can give him a second wind late game. Another option I have considered is to change this Latias to a Trick variant, but haven't actually gotten around to testing that yet. Actually I could scarf this Latias and also make Rotom a more bulky/dedicated spin blocker, which could improve the team. But also three Trick users could also be beneficial to the overall strategy. Just food for thought.


1664995977466.png

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 36 SpA / 12 SpD / 216 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Torment
- Lava Plume

Description: The last Pokemon is TormentTran, just the standard set. Hopefully after all the tricking and what not, Heatran is ready to end the game via his Torment stall. His most troublesome Pokemon are Blissey, Clefable, Swampert, CMers, RestTalkers which all don't like being tricked or poisoned. Otherwise I have had a lot of success and rage-quits with this Pokemon and I enjoyed setting a team up to aid in his success.

Thoughts and tips on improving the team are appreciated!

Also although this is not a full blown stall team, I still want to include a type coverage chart.

Team Type Resistance Coverage:

1664993190432.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 2 total
1664993242015.png
2 (0.5 damage) = 2 total
1664993254235.png
1 (0.5 damage) = 1 total
1664993263807.png
2 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 3 total
1664993276026.png
2 (0.5 damage) + 1 (0.25 damage) = 3 total
1664993428952.png
3 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 4 total
1664993302924.png
1 (0.5 damage) = 1 total
1664993315660.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (0.25 damage) = 2 total
1664993327463.png
2 (0.5 damage) = 2 total
1664993336711.png
3 (0.5 damage) = 3 total
1664993345297.png
3 (0.5 damage) + 2 (0.25 damage) = 5 total
1664993354682.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (0.25 damage) = 2 total
1664993366510.png
3 (0.5 damage) = 3 total
1664993387535.png
2 (immune) = 2 total
1664993398737.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 2 total
1664993408235.png
2 (immune) = 2 total
1664993417265.png
2 (0.5 damage) = 2 total


So every type is covered with Grass being the most resisted type (5 resists) and Ghost and Dark being tied for the least resisted types (1 resist each).

Lastly I want to mention some troublesome Pokemon other than the special walls and CMers. Notably these are Starmie and Mixed-Infernape that runs a set that can hit almost every team member super-effectively. Starmie with Recover can be hard to play against. Mixed-Infernape can be weakened through chip damage (making predictive switches, Protecting, etc) or revenge-killed if Jirachi or Rotom still have their scarves.

Thanks again!
 
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Hey,

I think I watched this team on the ladder as I was observing my tutee battle. From a synergy perspective I love how Latias works real well with Heatran from a defensive perspective. Every Pokémon on this team has a purpose, in case of a rapid spinner Rotom exists to counter, to assist with tricking and keeping Heatran setup for the big show. Roserade with toxic spikes, Hippo's unlimited turns of sandstorm so torment is in full fledge annoyance.

So you say Infernape could be annoying but I don't see it as that annoying because Jirachi outspeeds it with its choice scarf, Latias will always outspeed because of timid nature and Rotom as well could switch in on a Close Combat and thunderbolt enough (with sandstorm + stealth rock in place) where it wouldn't be a huge annoyance. This is where, I start noticing a problem with the team, Choice banded Tyranitar (with incoming pursuit). I'll post my calculations below:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom: 276-326 (114.5 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 240-284 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias through Reflect: 240-284 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

Tyranitar causes a huge problem for Rotom, there's no denying that. Rotom is too important in case the opposite team had a rapid spinner (When it comes to layer of spikes and t-spikes) which assists in Torment Heatrans execution. Latias can play around when it comes to Reflect, but with SR damage and it constantly taking sandstorm damage I can easily see it get worn down which is needed in terms of it assisting with defensive coverage of Heatran.

My recommendation is going with Sub / Pain Split Gengar to cover Tyranitar decimating your only ghost. Focus Blast OHKOs Tyranitar, and substitute protects you from pursuit on switch. Yes you lose the ability to trick but you get to at least check pursuiters (vital in my opinion).

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Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Because I think this team is built really well to begin with I have minor nit picks with my other suggestions.

Roserade - I think you should go with Leaf Storm > Grass Knot to hit harder because I don't know how often your going to stay in to keep Grass Knotting for damage but I feel like Leaf Storm sounds like the better choice here. Lastly sleep moves work really good in Gen 4 because there are no sleep moves clause (like in gen 5). It takes the Pokémon going to sleep out of the picture especially if it doesn't have sleep talk. This would add a different layer (no pun intended) and make Roserade extremely annoying so Sleep Powder > Leech Seed.

Jirachi - Why not add Healing Wish over Ice Punch? This gives Latias an extra move like (Refresh / Toxic / Thunder Wave / Surf / Calm Mind).

Aside from that great team and good luck.
 
Last edited:
Hey,

I think I watched this team on the ladder as I was observing my tutee battle. From a synergy perspective I love how Latias works real well with Heatran from a defensive perspective. Every Pokémon on this team has a purpose, in case of a rapid spinner Rotom exists to counter, to assist with tricking and keeping Heatran setup for the big show. Roserade with toxic spikes, Hippo's unlimited turns of sandstorm so torment is in full fledge annoyance.

So you say Infernape could be annoying but I don't see it as that annoying because Jirachi outspeeds it with its choice scarf, Latias will always outspeed because of timid nature and Rotom as well could switch in on a Close Combat and thunderbolt enough (with sandstorm + stealth rock in place) where it wouldn't be a huge annoyance. This is where, I start noticing a problem with the team, Choice banded Tyranitar (with incoming pursuit). I'll post my calculations below:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom: 276-326 (114.5 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 240-284 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias through Reflect: 240-284 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

Tyranitar causes a huge problem for Rotom, there's no denying that. Rotom is too important in case the opposite team had a rapid spinner (When it comes to layer of spikes and t-spikes) which assists in Torment Heatrans execution. Latias can play around when it comes to Reflect, but with SR damage and it constantly taking sandstorm damage I can easily see it get worn down which is needed in terms of it assisting with defensive coverage of Heatran.

My recommendation is going with Sub / Pain Split Gengar to cover Tyranitar decimating your only ghost. Focus Blast OHKOs Tyranitar, and substitute protects you from pursuit on switch. Yes you lose the ability to trick but you get to at least check pursuiters (vital in my opinion).

View attachment 457432
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Because I think this team is built really well to begin with I have minor nit picks with my other suggestions.

Roserade - I think you should go with Leaf Storm > Grass Knot to hit harder because I don't know how often your going to stay in to keep Grass Knotting for damage but I feel like Leaf Storm sounds like the better choice here. Lastly sleep moves work really good in Gen 4 because there are no sleep moves clause (like in gen 5). It takes the Pokémon going to sleep out of the picture especially if it doesn't have sleep talk. This would add a different layer (no pun intended) and make Roserade extremely annoying so Sleep Powder > Leech Seed.

Jirachi - Why not add Healing Wish over Ice Punch? This gives Latias an extra move like (Refresh / Toxic / Thunder Wave / Surf / Calm Mind).

Aside from that great team and good luck.

Thanks these are all really great suggestions that I haven't thought of and I can't wait to test!
 
Cool team! I remember encountering this on ladder and it really messed me up one time. One poke I can foresee becoming an issue for this team is Heatran, your only true switch in is Latias, which has no way to threaten it. One suggestion I have is to slot T-wave on Latias so you can cripple it for Hippo, or flinch hax it down with Rachi. Tricking it can certainly help, but since you lack coverage on Tran you will be unable to hit it, and nothing really wants to take any of its moves so it becomes a bit of a prediction game to come in on the right one. T-wave also helps out against Cmers like Rachi.

I think slotting in Hpfire on Rose is a good idea, since you have no way to damage Loom, which can actually win the one on one as it stands with this moveset. It is often paired with Tar, so you can’t rely on Latias to beat it. It’s also just a really nice coverage move in general and I don’t think leech seed will help you very much with Blissey being quite rare these days and it being useless against Clef.

Also I’m sure you already know this but sleep powder and spikes are incompatible, but I think you were right to ascertain that spikes are necessary on Rose as many teams are immune to toxic spikes. You might consider running a bulkier, slower Rose to take hits better. I would keep Rotom, mainly because if you change that slot to Gar, Gyarados and Lucario (with bp) become a lot scarier. Its not the end of the world if it dies to Tar, you just want to set up for TormentTran in the endgame.
 
I will now give an update on the testing I have done with the suggested changes:

The SubSplit Gengar has been successful and fits into the team well. It can come in on Earthquakes/U-turns from Jirachi and quickly gain momentum and take out key threats in Tyranitar, Blissey, Clefable, and the like (though Focus Blast's accuracy is a real let down at times). As the above poster mentioned though, Rotom has offers some benefits that Gengar does not, however at this point its probably choose either Rotom or Gengar for your preference and just play to the strengths and weaknesses of the Pokemon you chose. Though at the point of writing this I like Gengar's playstyle more than the Rotom's so I'm sticking with Gengar. Gengar doesn't utilize Trick here but it is definitely a more efficient spin-blocker.

In regards to Roserade, I also agree that dropping Leech Seed for HP-Fire or Sleep Powder is generally better.

I have also been running this Latias set with variations on the second move (the EV distribution could probably be better but too lazy to think it out):

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave / Toxic / Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Surf

All three moves have their benefits but I have been sticking with Thunder-Wave. Since Gengar now doesn't cover DD Gyarados as well, this Latias can hopefully paralyze it so other team members can outspeed and revenge kill it (or use Dragon Pulse to damage it on its own). This Latias also deals with Heatran a lot better than what I had before. I was also trying out a bulky CM version with Recover and Refresh but it didn't feel right (though maybe a pure offensive CM may be worth testing). Overall though this set still doesn't feel like the perfect set and I am still searching/testing.

Also I have been running Healing Wish on Jirachi along with Iron Head, U-turn, and Trick, however I feel like I rarely use it in comparison to when I had it on Latias. Not too important and I will probably just drop Healing Wish from the team altogether.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-1897690166
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone, this is a quick TormentTran team that I have created but just want advice on how to improve it. I have had some success on the Showdown ladder (Managed to get to like top 50, but then dipped back down).

View attachment 457138 View attachment 457139 View attachment 457140 View attachment 457141 View attachment 457142View attachment 457143

Team in detail:


View attachment 457179

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Slack Off

Description: Hippowdon immediately sets up sand which helps with the TormentTran chip damage. She also provides general bulk in addition to SR and Roar for more chip damage. Nothing too much to say here. Hippowdon is a useful pokemon that I like to keep alive as long as possible. Her Sand Stream ability also helps immensely versus Rain Dance teams, which would otherwise run through this team like a hot knife through butter.


View attachment 457147
Roserade @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Grass Knot

Description: In my opinion Roserade is a bit frail but if I can get her in behind say a Reflect or another advantageous situation, getting up a layer of Spikes or two is very helpful because all of the switches that Heatran tends to cause. I also like to scout the team before setting up Toxic Spikes, because the Toxic Spikes are necessary only for Blissey/Swampert/Vaporeon/Suicune (non-RestTalk variants), and many teams are almost fully resistant to T-Spikes anyway. Leech Seed is surprisingly good against Blissey while I set up, it restores like 30% health and otherwise contributes to chip damage.


View attachment 457148
Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Description: My first trickster. As we all know, it is pretty much impossible to play a choiced pokemon against TormentTran once he has a sub up. So getting the Scarf onto another Pokemon is generally useful. Other than Tyranitar, Rotom tends to attract special walls like Blissey and Clefable. Getting a scarf onto them (especially Clefable) makes life much easier for TormentTran. Other than tricking, Rotom has some utility as a spin-blocker and revenge-killer.


View attachment 457149
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Trick

Description: The second trickster. Like I said, the more opponents who are locked into one move, the better. Jirachi also performs scouting with U-turn, and Iron Head works well late-game when the other team is weakened (especially with Sandstorm + Poison). Ice Punch is just for additional coverage. Nothing too much to say here.


View attachment 457151
Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Reflect
- Recover
- Healing Wish

Description: Latias fills certain defensive holes such as Breloom and Infernape. This set I have had success with. Reflect helps with getting in Roserade and Heatran easier in certain situations, and helps them set-up the entry hazards or substitute. Recover is self-explanatory. Healing Wish is a move that has actually saved me late game a few times. For example if Heatran is paralyzed, or low health, Healing Wish can give him a second wind late game. Another option I have considered is to change this Latias to a Trick variant, but haven't actually gotten around to testing that yet. Actually I could scarf this Latias and also make Rotom a more bulky/dedicated spin blocker, which could improve the team. But also three Trick users could also be beneficial to the overall strategy. Just food for thought.


View attachment 457150
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 36 SpA / 12 SpD / 216 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Torment
- Lava Plume

Description: The last Pokemon is TormentTran, just the standard set. Hopefully after all the tricking and what not, Heatran is ready to end the game via his Torment stall. His most troublesome Pokemon are Blissey, Clefable, Swampert, CMers, RestTalkers which all don't like being tricked or poisoned. Otherwise I have had a lot of success and rage-quits with this Pokemon and I enjoyed setting a team up to aid in his success.

Thoughts and tips on improving the team are appreciated!

Also although this is not a full blown stall team, I still want to include a type coverage chart.

Team Type Resistance Coverage:

1664993190432.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 2 total
1664993242015.png
2 (0.5 damage) = 2 total
1664993254235.png
1 (0.5 damage) = 1 total
1664993263807.png
2 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 3 total
1664993276026.png
2 (0.5 damage) + 1 (0.25 damage) = 3 total
1664993428952.png
3 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 4 total
1664993302924.png
1 (0.5 damage) = 1 total
1664993315660.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (0.25 damage) = 2 total
1664993327463.png
2 (0.5 damage) = 2 total
1664993336711.png
3 (0.5 damage) = 3 total
1664993345297.png
3 (0.5 damage) + 2 (0.25 damage) = 5 total
1664993354682.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (0.25 damage) = 2 total
1664993366510.png
3 (0.5 damage) = 3 total
1664993387535.png
2 (immune) = 2 total
1664993398737.png
1 (0.5 damage) + 1 (immune) = 2 total
1664993408235.png
2 (immune) = 2 total
1664993417265.png
2 (0.5 damage) = 2 total


So every type is covered with Grass being the most resisted type (5 resists) and Ghost and Dark being tied for the least resisted types (1 resist each).

Lastly I want to mention some troublesome Pokemon other than the special walls and CMers. Notably these are Starmie and Mixed-Infernape that runs a set that can hit almost every team member super-effectively. Starmie with Recover can be hard to play against. Mixed-Infernape can be weakened through chip damage (making predictive switches, Protecting, etc) or revenge-killed if Jirachi or Rotom still have their scarves.

Thanks again!
I’ve built similar and i like these six, but i think u def want a different rachi set. Maybe shuca so u can bait flygon? A lot of flexibility, but shuca could be cool
 
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