Now that the suspect ladder has very little activity, I have decided that I am unable to learn much more from consistent battling. So I bring my team to Smogon in order to better it further.
My original plan was to just try and plow through opposing teams with 6 excellent physical sweepers, but I realized that if I refused to use any specially-based Pokemon my team could not get much better. The main thing I noticed was a weakness to Offensive Dragon Dance Gyarados, as I frequently could not OHKO it and Ice Fang is now the most popular secondary attack for Gyarados (which would OHKO Garchomp at +1). So I added ScarfZone, as it handles Lucario and Scizor a bit better to keep my Garchomp in good shape and possibly help with Gyarados. I quickly realized that ScarfZone didn't help with Gyarados at all, so I changed my Magnezone set and added Scarf Latios to combat +1 Gyarados and most Swampert (the other problem my entirely physical team encountered).
For the month of June, Gyarados was at the 28th spot for number of times used in the leading position on the suspect ladder. This helped to make him more useful, especially considering that Bronzong and Metagross are incredibly common leads.
You may question my use of Dragon Dance along with max Speed+. I have never found a reason to switch to Adamant, as Jolly +1 Waterfalls still pack a lot of punch and Jolly allows me to, most importantly, outspeed all Mamoswine. I also outspeed Adamant Lucario, but with Gyarados often gone early game that's a fairly moot point.
Now about my choice of Return over, say, Earthquake. Waterfall does more to Shuca Berry Heatran, and more Metagross actually used Shuca Berry than Occa Berry in June. I used Stone Edge previously, and its accuracy was the main put-off. With Earthquake, Shaymin-s is an issue. Also, a +1 attack with 100 base power hits many Leftovers holding Manaphy for slightly more than 50% (often). That little bit more power with Return makes me more likely to 2HKO Manaphy, lets me hit Shaymin-s hard, and provides general good coverage. I do have one rule about using Return, however - if a NVE Waterfall will KO the opponent at their current health, I will use Waterfall. This is quite important because of the multiple Steel-type Pokemon thriving in the suspect metagame.
It seems that describing how your lead does against top leads is somewhat of an obligation now, especially if your lead isn't the top 10.
1. Metagross - I always outspeed non-Scarf variants (and that would be one hell of a surprise). Taunt prevents Stealth Rock (although Gyarados is really the only one the minds SR that much) and nearly always causes the opponent to switch. This gives me the opportunity to DD and an early advantage. If they use Explosion, eh no hard feelings. Also I don't think that a leading Metagross has ever had ThunderPunch on this suspect ladder.
2. Mamoswine - Ah I hate these things. I always Taunt first to prevent SR considering that they usually Endeavor first. I proceed to DD next as many players are fairly reliant on Stealth Rock, and so they switch. If they do not and use Endeavor again, I use Waterfall and pray for a flinch. I usually switch to Scizor if I don't get a flinch as Gyarados' Intimidate is incredibly useful against the myraid physical threats in the suspect metagame. With Scizor I tend to Pursuit as that way Gyarados won't die upon switching in and Magnezone won't kill me completely free.
3. Bronzong - Haha basically the same concept as Metagross. Taunt will also stop Trick which is annoying. Some people get smart and switch immediately so I wind up Taunting Latios. Actually this happens against Metagross, too. Occasionally I will DD immediately against Metagross/Bronzong if I know my opponent's playstyle. Oh and if they switch in Latios immediately and I Taunt it I just send in Garchomp to take the Thunderbolt. If they KO me with Specs Dragon Pulse/DM or Scarf DM then Scizor eliminates it.
4. Jirachi - These are also annoying as Dragon Dance becomes useless (except against Sidd and his fucking hax Jirachi lead). I pretty much Waterfall right away as it usually 3HKOs and a well-timed flinch dispatches their Jirachi while giving me a potent revenge killer.
5. Shaymin-s - I usually use Return immediately as most lead Shaymin-s are Scarfed (which is pointless because Aerodactyl isn't that useful anymore and Air Slash needs a whole lot of flinches to KO Jirachi). If they miss I attack again, if it appears that I can survive one more Seed Flare I attack again as well. If they use Air Slash immediately and I'm lucky enough to get to attack I am thankful and switch to Magnezone immediately. Scizor is fine with Seed Flare. Scizor will U-turn and Magnezone will T-bolt against Shaymin-s.
6. Azelf - These are annoying too because of their fast Taunt, but Waterfall 2HKOs so if they Taunt Gyarados should be sitting happy with 80% health surrounded by floating pointy rocks. Intimidate can take some of the sting off of Explosion, but it usually KOs anyway I think. The one problem I had with Azelf was when I faced one with Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt does crap to the top 10 suspect leads.
7. Heatran - After I Taunt, they're likely to switch if they haven't already. So I'll seize the opportunity to DD, and if they attack I can OHKO with Waterfall (unless they fucking burn me).
8. Tyranitar - I usually Taunt first to prevent Stealth Rock/Dragon Dance, although I'm starting to consider immediately using Waterfall to strike out against possible Rock or Electric moves. It's a fairly even match up, usually.
9. Swampert - I use Taunt right away to prevent Stealth Rock. They can't really do much to me after that, so I usually DD.
10. Garchomp - Haha it's pretty funny that this thing beat Infernape for 10th. It doesn't hit THAT hard and Focus Sash leads can cause it problems. Anyway, I DD immediately to gain the advantage and the ability to 2HKO while they SR. Intimidate makes their Outrage/Dragon Claw pretty soft so I get that 2HKO if they stay in.
The EVs are probably the most confusing. 220 Speed EVs and a Timid nature allow me to hit 231 Speed, which outspeeds all Adamant Scizor (I needed 220 EVs instead of the standard 216 because of HP Fire). This is the main thing that would give the illusion that I am running a Scarf set. 96 Special Attack EVs places me at a respectable 319 Special Attack. The main purpose of that number, however, is that 319 Special Attack combined with Expert Belt allows me to OHKO 176 / 176 Scizor (the "It's a Trap!" set) with HP Fire. The rest were placed into HP for better ability to stop Draco Meteors and Outrages.
Thunderbolt is obviously my main attack, with HP Fire for Scizor and Forretress. Flash Cannon gets little use, but is my only attack to use against the Dragons whose attacks Magnezone resists. It can also smack Tyranitar and Rhyperior fairly hard (though nothing that impressive). Toxic is actually quite a wonderful move for Magnezone, as most all of the Dragons that run rampant in suspect don't like to lose chunk after chunk of HP. It also works against all the Pokemon that Magnezone isn't designed to destroy, oddly enough, and I find it to be a funny concept.
Latios@Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpeThis is my Gyarados insurance. That was his main role in my team, but obviously he is good general Pokemon. I was rather sad that Specs Latios didn't quite fit as well with my team, but Draco Meteor off of 359 Special Attack damages many Steel-types very badly, too.
He is also good against Outraging ScarfChomps, as Latios can OHKO instead of Scizor 2HKOing. Having a second Earthquake switch-in is also nice. All the moves are rather standard, but I am rather upset that the counter-Trick method of making the Tricker receive a Choice item seems to have unfixed itself for the suspect ladder (at least, I thought it was fixed before).
Scizor@Choice Band
Technician
Adamant
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpDScizor is another Pokemon that is common for a reason. It's good. And interestingly enough, I rarely find a time when I would want to use U-turn. Most of the times I use Scizor are Bullet Punching Outraging Dragons or Pursuiting Latios to get it out of my way.
I did switch the 8 Speed EVs to Special Defense to better take Draco Meteors. CB Scizor generally doesn't do much with Speed, and it is better to U-turn/Superpower after your opponent does. The only time I might wish to be faster is against SD Scizor, but that would require a near full investment in Speed.
Garchomp@Choice Scarf
Sand Veil
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpeGarchomp is a wonderful Pokemon. I thoroughly enjoy using him, and playing against them isn't so bad. But throwing a hax ability onto an already amazing Pokemon was just... bah damn it GameFreak you've fucked Garchomp. I do want to point out something to some of the people who don't seem to understand what people mean when they discuss Sand Veil. It's not the ability in itself that makes a Pokemon broken - for example, Sandslash and Cacturne still suck. It's the mixing of incredible power with luck frequently being on its side. However, I believe that Shaymin-s does not belong to be Uber. It does not have to raw power of Garchomp. You can complain about its base special sweeping stats being pretty ridiculous, on top of that luck factor that aids it. The reason Shaymin-s shouldn't be Uber is that its typing and movepool makes it MUCH weaker than Garchomp. Garchomp can't really be walled; Shaymin-s can, and fairly easily at that (compared to some of the other suspects, at least).
Back to the team. You may notice that I am still using Adamant ScarfChomp. This is because I started with Jolly ScarfChomp, and I was really underwhelmed by the damage it dealt. I also have no reason to stay in against ScarfChomp if I'm not locked in, and if I am locked in then my opponent is incredibly daring.
I also chose Fire Fang over Fire Blast because of how much better max SpD+ Skarmory is on suspect. Fire Blast's increase in damage over Fire Fang would be much more subtle than against standard Skarmory. Also, using a -Def/SpD nature is absurd. Choice Pokemon need to be able to switch in and take as little damage as possible, IMO.
Lucario@Life Orb
Inner Focus
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpDAnd yet another standard threat. Despite Garchomp's presence, Lucario is still a Pokemon to be feared. Although I find very little time to SD on the incredibly fast-paced suspect ladder, Lucario's Close Combat packs a huge punch. ExtremeSpeed is probably the most useful move Lucario has, as it means I don't have to lock Scizor into Bullet Punch to do that last bit of damage to some Pokemon. ExtremeSpeed+Bullet Punch from Lucario and Scizor respectively can frequently KO ScarfChomp (out of memory, ExtremeSpeed is something like 30%-38%; Bullet Punch is around 63%-71%).
I put the remaining 4 EVs in SpD instead of Def because of Download Porygon-Z. I could've been in one of those approximately 52 battles it was used in.
I now realize that I probably should've at least tested Adamant Gyarados as a lead, but with suspect so dead I'm not sure it would do much. In any case, that's my team, and it's pretty dang offensive like most of the suspect teams. So offensive, in fact, that I don't to set up Stealth Rock (yeah that's a good excuse).
My original plan was to just try and plow through opposing teams with 6 excellent physical sweepers, but I realized that if I refused to use any specially-based Pokemon my team could not get much better. The main thing I noticed was a weakness to Offensive Dragon Dance Gyarados, as I frequently could not OHKO it and Ice Fang is now the most popular secondary attack for Gyarados (which would OHKO Garchomp at +1). So I added ScarfZone, as it handles Lucario and Scizor a bit better to keep my Garchomp in good shape and possibly help with Gyarados. I quickly realized that ScarfZone didn't help with Gyarados at all, so I changed my Magnezone set and added Scarf Latios to combat +1 Gyarados and most Swampert (the other problem my entirely physical team encountered).
Dragons and Steels
Scout and Early Damage Dealer
Gyarados@Life Orb
Intimidate
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ok, so Gyarados isn't technically a Dragon. He's just a dragon-like Pokemon like Charizard. Anyway, I remembered ChouToshio's "6 Wall Breakers" team and remembered the offensive Gyarados lead. Unlike him, however, I use Dragon Dance quite frequently. My opponents often chicken out of letting one of their own Pokemon be sacrificed to Gyarados so early in the game, and switch around until I'm worn down from Life Orb but have done a lot of damage to their team.
Gyarados@Life Orb
Intimidate
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Return
- Taunt
Currently testing Haunter's Jirachi set:
Jirachi@leftovers
nature: jolly
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Spe
-iron head
-body slam
-stealth rock
-fire punch
Jirachi@leftovers
nature: jolly
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Spe
-iron head
-body slam
-stealth rock
-fire punch
For the month of June, Gyarados was at the 28th spot for number of times used in the leading position on the suspect ladder. This helped to make him more useful, especially considering that Bronzong and Metagross are incredibly common leads.
You may question my use of Dragon Dance along with max Speed+. I have never found a reason to switch to Adamant, as Jolly +1 Waterfalls still pack a lot of punch and Jolly allows me to, most importantly, outspeed all Mamoswine. I also outspeed Adamant Lucario, but with Gyarados often gone early game that's a fairly moot point.
Now about my choice of Return over, say, Earthquake. Waterfall does more to Shuca Berry Heatran, and more Metagross actually used Shuca Berry than Occa Berry in June. I used Stone Edge previously, and its accuracy was the main put-off. With Earthquake, Shaymin-s is an issue. Also, a +1 attack with 100 base power hits many Leftovers holding Manaphy for slightly more than 50% (often). That little bit more power with Return makes me more likely to 2HKO Manaphy, lets me hit Shaymin-s hard, and provides general good coverage. I do have one rule about using Return, however - if a NVE Waterfall will KO the opponent at their current health, I will use Waterfall. This is quite important because of the multiple Steel-type Pokemon thriving in the suspect metagame.
It seems that describing how your lead does against top leads is somewhat of an obligation now, especially if your lead isn't the top 10.
1. Metagross - I always outspeed non-Scarf variants (and that would be one hell of a surprise). Taunt prevents Stealth Rock (although Gyarados is really the only one the minds SR that much) and nearly always causes the opponent to switch. This gives me the opportunity to DD and an early advantage. If they use Explosion, eh no hard feelings. Also I don't think that a leading Metagross has ever had ThunderPunch on this suspect ladder.
2. Mamoswine - Ah I hate these things. I always Taunt first to prevent SR considering that they usually Endeavor first. I proceed to DD next as many players are fairly reliant on Stealth Rock, and so they switch. If they do not and use Endeavor again, I use Waterfall and pray for a flinch. I usually switch to Scizor if I don't get a flinch as Gyarados' Intimidate is incredibly useful against the myraid physical threats in the suspect metagame. With Scizor I tend to Pursuit as that way Gyarados won't die upon switching in and Magnezone won't kill me completely free.
3. Bronzong - Haha basically the same concept as Metagross. Taunt will also stop Trick which is annoying. Some people get smart and switch immediately so I wind up Taunting Latios. Actually this happens against Metagross, too. Occasionally I will DD immediately against Metagross/Bronzong if I know my opponent's playstyle. Oh and if they switch in Latios immediately and I Taunt it I just send in Garchomp to take the Thunderbolt. If they KO me with Specs Dragon Pulse/DM or Scarf DM then Scizor eliminates it.
4. Jirachi - These are also annoying as Dragon Dance becomes useless (except against Sidd and his fucking hax Jirachi lead). I pretty much Waterfall right away as it usually 3HKOs and a well-timed flinch dispatches their Jirachi while giving me a potent revenge killer.
5. Shaymin-s - I usually use Return immediately as most lead Shaymin-s are Scarfed (which is pointless because Aerodactyl isn't that useful anymore and Air Slash needs a whole lot of flinches to KO Jirachi). If they miss I attack again, if it appears that I can survive one more Seed Flare I attack again as well. If they use Air Slash immediately and I'm lucky enough to get to attack I am thankful and switch to Magnezone immediately. Scizor is fine with Seed Flare. Scizor will U-turn and Magnezone will T-bolt against Shaymin-s.
6. Azelf - These are annoying too because of their fast Taunt, but Waterfall 2HKOs so if they Taunt Gyarados should be sitting happy with 80% health surrounded by floating pointy rocks. Intimidate can take some of the sting off of Explosion, but it usually KOs anyway I think. The one problem I had with Azelf was when I faced one with Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt does crap to the top 10 suspect leads.
7. Heatran - After I Taunt, they're likely to switch if they haven't already. So I'll seize the opportunity to DD, and if they attack I can OHKO with Waterfall (unless they fucking burn me).
8. Tyranitar - I usually Taunt first to prevent Stealth Rock/Dragon Dance, although I'm starting to consider immediately using Waterfall to strike out against possible Rock or Electric moves. It's a fairly even match up, usually.
9. Swampert - I use Taunt right away to prevent Stealth Rock. They can't really do much to me after that, so I usually DD.
10. Garchomp - Haha it's pretty funny that this thing beat Infernape for 10th. It doesn't hit THAT hard and Focus Sash leads can cause it problems. Anyway, I DD immediately to gain the advantage and the ability to 2HKO while they SR. Intimidate makes their Outrage/Dragon Claw pretty soft so I get that 2HKO if they stay in.
Steel Dragon Steel Dragon Steel - Just Keep Up the Pace
Magnezone@Expert Belt
Magnet Pull
Timid
192 HP / 96 SpA / 220 Spe
This Magnezone can fool some people as being a ScarfZone, although that surprise doesn't really help me that often. This is obviously not a very common set. It fits my needs, however, and I realized that having 3 Choice Scarfers on one team probably wouldn't be a good idea.
Magnezone@Expert Belt
Magnet Pull
Timid
192 HP / 96 SpA / 220 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire
- Flash Cannon
- Toxic
Currently testing Sub-Magnet Rise Magnezone with HP Ice
The EVs are probably the most confusing. 220 Speed EVs and a Timid nature allow me to hit 231 Speed, which outspeeds all Adamant Scizor (I needed 220 EVs instead of the standard 216 because of HP Fire). This is the main thing that would give the illusion that I am running a Scarf set. 96 Special Attack EVs places me at a respectable 319 Special Attack. The main purpose of that number, however, is that 319 Special Attack combined with Expert Belt allows me to OHKO 176 / 176 Scizor (the "It's a Trap!" set) with HP Fire. The rest were placed into HP for better ability to stop Draco Meteors and Outrages.
Thunderbolt is obviously my main attack, with HP Fire for Scizor and Forretress. Flash Cannon gets little use, but is my only attack to use against the Dragons whose attacks Magnezone resists. It can also smack Tyranitar and Rhyperior fairly hard (though nothing that impressive). Toxic is actually quite a wonderful move for Magnezone, as most all of the Dragons that run rampant in suspect don't like to lose chunk after chunk of HP. It also works against all the Pokemon that Magnezone isn't designed to destroy, oddly enough, and I find it to be a funny concept.
Latios@Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
He is also good against Outraging ScarfChomps, as Latios can OHKO instead of Scizor 2HKOing. Having a second Earthquake switch-in is also nice. All the moves are rather standard, but I am rather upset that the counter-Trick method of making the Tricker receive a Choice item seems to have unfixed itself for the suspect ladder (at least, I thought it was fixed before).
Scizor@Choice Band
Technician
Adamant
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower
I did switch the 8 Speed EVs to Special Defense to better take Draco Meteors. CB Scizor generally doesn't do much with Speed, and it is better to U-turn/Superpower after your opponent does. The only time I might wish to be faster is against SD Scizor, but that would require a near full investment in Speed.
Garchomp@Choice Scarf
Sand Veil
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang
Back to the team. You may notice that I am still using Adamant ScarfChomp. This is because I started with Jolly ScarfChomp, and I was really underwhelmed by the damage it dealt. I also have no reason to stay in against ScarfChomp if I'm not locked in, and if I am locked in then my opponent is incredibly daring.
I also chose Fire Fang over Fire Blast because of how much better max SpD+ Skarmory is on suspect. Fire Blast's increase in damage over Fire Fang would be much more subtle than against standard Skarmory. Also, using a -Def/SpD nature is absurd. Choice Pokemon need to be able to switch in and take as little damage as possible, IMO.
Lucario@Life Orb
Inner Focus
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed
- Crunch - currently testing Stone Edge
I put the remaining 4 EVs in SpD instead of Def because of Download Porygon-Z. I could've been in one of those approximately 52 battles it was used in.
I now realize that I probably should've at least tested Adamant Gyarados as a lead, but with suspect so dead I'm not sure it would do much. In any case, that's my team, and it's pretty dang offensive like most of the suspect teams. So offensive, in fact, that I don't to set up Stealth Rock (yeah that's a good excuse).
