Other Dual Weather

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Micro Mercury

Micro Mercury

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An interesting strategy to note in the field of play is Dual Weather. Seeing some teams that include both weathers in the team, such as Sun and Sand, or Hail and Rain, it has brought to my attention that this play style can be deployed very well.

The thread will:
  • Discuss about the Dual Weather Play style
  • Discuss how more than one weather can affect the meta
  • Give out more ideas in team building!
One example is the Swift Rain/Sand team!

Here's an example what might be in a Swift Rain/Sand team.
Tyranitar, Rain Setter, Kabutops and 3 fillers for balancing weakness (Sap sipper Goodra maybe)

Evaluation:
  • Kabutops gains dual speed in rain, as well as boosted water moves
  • When sand is in play, Kabutops gains an addition 1.5X Sp.D. I understand how Kabutops is not a defensive poke, but there are times when its ability to take hit is vital.
There is much more to this!
Such as Ludicolos potential to solar beam in the sun, increased hp fire and also Swift Swim in the rain.

With that in mind, do you have any more ideas?

In generation 6, there is more potential for dual weather than gen 6, with the allowance of swift swim, snow cloak etc.

With that being said, I hope you have enjoyed reading this thread, and hopefully give out some suggestions and ideas out!
Thank you~
 
In my opinion, dual weather teams really aren't that good at the moment. Pokemon like Kabutops and Kingdra are mediocre outside of their respective weathers due to their speed, bulk and power. Also I don't think sun or hail is viable this gen and Charizard Y is better off abusing sun by itself. If you do end up using sun/rain (worst combination) then having the opposite weather will actually be harmful to your sweepers by reducing the power of water/fire moves. I think it's just a counterproductive strategy and half of your team struggles a lot when one of your weather setters dies.
 
Yeah that's true too losedude! Thanks for your opinion.

Yet even so, there are times when dual weather can be beneficial.
Rotom-Frost in a Rain/Hail team would abuse either weather with a no-miss STAB attack. Thunder in Rain and Blizzard in Hail. Specs can be given for Bigger Damage.

As well as that, some Ice/Water poke work well in this dual weather of Rain/Hail, using hail for ice body healing effects and no miss blizzard, as well as rain for Boosted water attacks.

Not to mention hail withering down most sashes in the enemy team.
 
Steel types would do well in a sand/rain team.

A prime example is a ferrothorn, or an aegislash, where it can take reduced fire damage whilst rain is up, or let your opponents whittle down by the sand during the stream whilst chilling out, not taking residual damage at all.
 
I see the Double Weather strategy used most in the tier I play in most, Ubers. Because Kyogre is one of the most defining forces of the Ubers Metagame, many teams support Kyogre as much as possible, and sometimes players do this by adding Groudon, who quite ironically is an outstanding teammate for Kyogre. Groudon is immune to Electric type moves from the likes of Zekrom, while it's huge defense allows to take physical hits aimed at Kyogre. Also it's own auto-weather allows Kyogre to get a full 5 turns of rain whenever it is re-summoned. Even if the duo goals towards Groudon being the sweeper, Kyogre can run a specially defensive set to sponge special attacks, or it can don a pair of Choice Specs to soften up checks to make Groudon's sweep easier.

But all in all, double weather does not have purpose at all. It just so happens that few of the Auto-weather users have good synergy together (eliminating eachothers checks, etc.). Double weather teams are very counter-productive. They have to keep BOTH weather starters alive, which is very difficult because weather teams have to opt out Leftovers on weather starters like Tyranitar and Politoed for a Weather Rock. Double Weather is a strategy that really shouldn't be built around, but running Weather starters together such as Mega Charizard-Y alongside Hippowdon can be very effective.
 
Hahaha baba xD

And thanks for your feedback Ducky.

Yes, there is some pros and cons in dual weather,and sadly to say more cons than there are pros. But if utilized well, there is no denying that there can be a lot of effects that can be made.
 
The only time people run double weather in OU is when they want to ensure Zard Y has the full 5 turns of Sun, so they run Hippowdon (also deals with some Zard Y counters) as a partner. But that's pretty much it. There's no true double weather strategy that works.
 
While there is no 'true' double strategy that works, there are strategies with double weather that can and have worked well. :P
Hail/Rain is not bad either.

Thanks for the opinion though Karxrida
 
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The only good way to use the double weather is chary y + sand (ttar or hippo).
The only 2 abuser are who set the weather (but hippo is not even an abuser, he simply don't get damages), and the other 4 mons are to "support" 90% of times chari y. Just see this team http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/force-of-nature-an-in-depth-guide-to-zard-y.3501476/ for understand better.

I don't see other possible combination. U cannot abuse about hail, so forget abomasnow. Politoed didnd't have the stats to do what charizard do (switch, kill everything not named chansey and switch), so even put another weather, so u can remove the rain and reput when u switch politoed, so u can abuse for 5 turns, didn't help with the 70 base speed.

Ttar and hippo don't need a second weather for work. Let's wait for see if with the new pokemon remakes we get new pokemon with drizzle/drought.
 
Rain Dance Greninja instead of Politoad works. Charizard goes mega, Greninja does rain dance. Solar beam 2 turns need from charizard.

What I mean is, the weather setter does not always have to be the one that brings down the weather automatically. Rain Dance and Sunny day etc can be used as well.

On another random note, thanks for your opinion Dalai ^^
 
Micro Mercury said:
Rain Dance Greninja instead of Politoad works. Charizard goes mega, Greninja does rain dance. Solar beam 2 turns need from charizard.

What I mean is, the weather setter does not always have to be the one that brings down the weather automatically. Rain Dance and Sunny day etc can be used as well.

On another random note, thanks for your opinion Dalai ^^
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You could just OHKO Yzard with hydropump. You're giving up a coverage move for an extra turn to accomplish the same thing (which likely won't happen since most Yzard don't stay in on greninja) and all you get out of it is 3 turns of 50% stronger hydropump.
 
Micro Mercury said:
Rain Dance Greninja instead of Politoad works. Charizard goes mega, Greninja does rain dance. Solar beam 2 turns need from charizard.

What I mean is, the weather setter does not always have to be the one that brings down the weather automatically. Rain Dance and Sunny day etc can be used as well.

On another random note, thanks for your opinion Dalai ^^
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Ok having read all of this thread, this is the final point for my confirmation. This thread serves no purpose as the play style itself is never seen except what Dalai_Drama mentioned in YZard + Hippo/Tar. Rain dance greninja is not viable in the slightest as it forces greninja to give up crucial coverage. (The only reason to use it)
The main drawback from having dual weather is that they deter each other. Do not bring up hail as it is unviable within itself. Rain/Sand/Sun all have dedicated sweepers Drill,Dra,Tops, and Venu to an extent. The fact that you would even try to run more than one weather is crazy except in YZard's case.
 
Micro Mercury said:
It stays for a minimum of 5 turns dude. Up to 8 turns. XP
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Right, you have the turn you set it up, the turn you hypothetically KO Yzard in your example which can be done without rain dance, leaving you with 3 turns. I wouldn't even consider damp rock an option, since Greninja is neither reliable enough to continuously set weather throughout the match nor willing to give up life orb.
 
Ohioisonfire said:
Not entirely true. It just depends on what you're try-
Never mind it's pretty hard to pull off.
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Here's the largest problem. Ordinary weather teams need pokemon that operate outside of the weather in order to keep the momentum on their side when it leaves and just generally support the team. If you're using dual weather you have:
1. 2 weather setters
2. at least 1 weather abuser of each weather, probably two
3. The second weather the abuser doesn't benefit from often actively hinders it
There's simply not enough room on a team for 2 weather setters, the abusers, and the balanced mons for it to be worth it. A dedicated rain team will have politoed, maybe a second setter like tornadus, and often two swift swimmers combined with two defensive support pokemon who aren't dependent on weather. With dual weather what can you possibly do as a reliable archetype? Y-zard and hippo? Y-zard's sun can't support anyone but himself and hippo's sand is hardly abusable save for excadrill. The only real advantage would be as mentioned before allowing Y-zard to have 5 turns of sun every switch in.
 
StairFall said:
Right, you have the turn you set it up, the turn you hypothetically KO Yzard in your example which can be done without rain dance, leaving you with 3 turns. I wouldn't even consider damp rock an option, since Greninja is neither reliable enough to continuously set weather throughout the match nor willing to give up life orb.
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Err, you use rain dance and you get 5-8 turns of rain.

There is no turn 'used' turn. Think about it. A turn used to set up rain brings up rain, not -1 turn of rain. :P

And if you want to count the the "turn you hypothetically KO Yzard", then that makes 4-7 turns.
 
the problem is you are wasting 1 turn to set up rain leaving your mon defenseless for an attack.
Charizard Y, Ttar, Politoad, Hippo and even Ninetails don't have that problem. They just switch in and you got your weather and unlike a somebody using Rain Dance and Sunny Day they can attack immidiatly.

I believe the only way a dual weather team can be benefical is if the setters benefit from setting up (Ttar for extra def or Yzard for extra power) and the other team mates are viable outside of the weather like Excadrill.
Only on a dedicated weather team (only 1 kind of weather) I can see non-auto weather users and only weather viable mons usable but then again, I would still question the usage of Greninja as a weather setter instead of something like Deoxys-S, Uxie or even Tornadus-I.
 
This thread is now fantasy-mon?
Why u should set up rain with greninja? Why put 2 weathers when u cannot abuse it?

Obviously if u show a peak of 1800+ in ou with greninja rainsetter we can change opinion, but this is impossible.

Deobros, klefki are two good rain setter, or even cresselia. Tornadus and thundurus are setter AND abuser, because hurricane/thunder. But u always need politoed as primary setter. Greninja didn't abuse the rain. U can do 1,3 damages with LO for all your moves instead of 1,5 only for hydropump, and without wasting a turn.
 
Oh, I remember last generation, I had a Rain + Hail team, with Blizzard/Thunder Spamming Rotom-Frost, and if I needed to hit Blizzard on Rain/Thunder on Hail, I had Gravity Landorus-T :]
 
I made extensive attempts at sand/rain teams a few months ago, and while the meta has changed, I don't see any real advantage over single weather. Plus there's still all around counters like ferrothorn that you now have fewer spots to handle with.
 
LOL, this reminds me of when I created a team with Abomasnow, Ninetails, politoed, and tyranitar all on the same team. It really screws with the opponent, but most of the time its really pointless
 
babaGAReeb said:
double weather eh?

how bout upping the ante and using all weather starters making it quardriple weather!
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I've actually seen that done before. Usually those teams are gimmicky :\

As Hydreigonz said, it is more annoying than it is dangerous.

The other thing with dual weather teams is that they kill momentum. If you are using a Sand/Rain team for instance, and you need to bring in Politoed to switch the weather to rain so Kingdra can sweep, your opponent can use those two turns to set up their own sweeper beyond your control, set up hazards that wear down your sweepers, kill your other weather setter, etc. It's not worth it most of the time. That being said, it would be fun to have a tourney where everybody had to use a Dual-Weather team.
 
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