Empoleon RMT

[monte.valentine]

Empoleon RMT:

I've had a lot of success with this team, but I'd love to hear what you think.


Empoleon has fascinated me since day one of DPP. What attracted me to it (besides the utter BAMFness it radiates) was its ability to easily switch into many different attacks while having little concern for most entry hazards. Empoleon has been a major defensive asset on a number of my teams, but I would like to be able to use its full sweeping potential to my advantage. I have put together the following team so far, built around a SubPetaya set.

The basic goal of the team as a whole is to lay down entry hazards and weaken/eliminate Pokemon who would jeopardize Empoleon's sweep (generally bulky grass, water, and dragon types) or be a threat to Empoleon.


So, on to the team itself:

Roserade @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Moveset: Grass Knot, Toxic Spikes, HP Fire, Sleep Powder


I've found Roserade to be a pretty effective lead so far. Its main job is to get Toxic Spikes in play (helping Empoleon handle stalls and walls in the endgame), and provide sleep support if need be. It has done a good job of countering most common leads as well. The only opposing leads that have really given it trouble are Azelf, Jirachi, and faster Abomasnow sets. It also has the potential to come in later in the game to handle bulky waters and grounds, but due to its frailty I have found this to be a seldom-occurring blessing.

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP, 168 Def, 88 Spe
Moveset: Overheat, Thunderbolt, Will-O-Wisp, HP Ground


Rotom is my wonderful little spin-blocker, keeping my precious entry hazards where they belong. It also does its part to damage the bulkier water and grass types. I run HP Ground because I've found that, being a Heat Rotom, this little dude attracts Heatran like garbage attracts flies. A surprise OHKO from Hidden Power has given me a number of turnarounds (and in several cases, rage-quits). I haven't had many issues with Pursuit users, but faster Rotom sets give me trouble. I'm considering removing a move in favor of Shadow Ball, which really should be in this set and would help that particular problem. Or should I maybe change the spread and go with a faster, more offensive set altogether?

Scizor @ Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP, 252 Atk, 8 Spe
Moveset: Bullet Punch, Pursuit, U-Turn, Superpower


Surprise! It's CB Scizor! Shocking, I know. On this team it has some great added benefits along with its amazing revenge killing prowess, such as breaking or weakening special walls for Empoleon. It also helps take on Celebi, who can potentially ruin my sweep, with either Pursuit or U-Turn depending on the situation.

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Nature: Impish
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP, 216 Spe, 40 Def
Moveset: Earthquake, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, Roost


Gliscor's job is mainly to get Stealth Rock in play, but it has also proven to be very useful in other areas. It has become my primary Zapdos counter, and can be used to draw out ice attackers for Empoleon to switch in against for an easy setup. It also has worked great against most Ape sets, except the few who carry HP Ice, obviously.

Infernape @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA, 192 Spe, 64 Atk
Moveset: Fire Blast, Close Combat, Grass Knot, HP Ice


I find MixApe to be extremely useful not only in wall breaking, but also to lure out & weaken those waters, grounds, and dragons that Empoleon doesn't really want to deal with. It is for this reason that I run both Grass Knot and HP Ice. Empoleon is resistant to all of Infernape's weaknesses (besides ground), and by drawing in these types of attacks Infernape can provide Empoleon with some easy switch-in opportunities when we're ready to begin the sweep.

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Nature: Modest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA, 232 Spe, 12 Def, 12 HP
Moveset: Surf, Agility, Substitute, Ice Beam/Grass Knot


Empoleon is the one that makes this all come together. If all goes well, it's more or less Game Over as soon as this guy hits the field. After the special attack boost from Petaya Berry and an Agility, I've encountered very few Pokemon able to stop this set. I list both Ice Beam and Grass Knot because I'm having an extremely difficult time picking between the two. While I've been testing this team, it seems that when I'm running Grass Knot, I end up one-on-one with a Celebi or Calm Mind Latias. Amazingly enough, when I make the switch to Ice Beam, all I seem to find are EQ Gyarados and Stallrein! Maybe it's just my rotten luck, but I would love a second opinion as to which of these non-STAB techniques to employ.




I have been very successful with this team so far, but I know you can most likely find some improvements to be made which I have overlooked. Your suggestions and comments are greatly appreciated!

 

[Reflect Suicune]

Why are you using Overheat? I know its a good move and everything, and it seems like a no-brainer, however, you should look at your team and ask yourself where you would really need it. Will-O-Wisp and Thunderbolt might not be as quick, but they get you to the same point most of the time, and saves you a moveslot for the Shadow Ball you were trying to squeeze in.

Rotom counters what it needs to counter even without the heavy defensive investment, if you give it some special defense EVs, it can better handle stuff like Starmie and Latias

Porygon-Z, Gengar, Latias, Starmie and other fast special attackers can give your team quite a bit of trouble, your best answer to them is generally sacrificing something and bringing in Scizor, and you can only do that so many times. You must remember that you can't just bring Empoleon in to counter stuff, since you need him alive at the end of the battle.

Grass Knot on Infernape covers only a handful of Pokemon, and out of those same Pokemon, there is only one or two where a Life Orb Close Combat won't do the job. Normally Grass Knot is nessecary, but on your team all you have to do is weaken the bulky waters, not KO them, I would save the coverage for actual threats.

What do you do if your opponent brings out a Water Pokemon on their own? Life Orb or Specs Starmie can 2HKO or better your entire team. You can sacrifice something and bring out Scizor, but now you've lost one pokemon and scizor is at about 20-30% HP at best. And you can be sure that teams that have Starmie have an answer to Pursuiters.

---

I'd try a Swords Dance Life Orb Scizor set out, since it is more likely to draw out your opponent's bulky waters, going along with your team's strategy. Also in case Empoleon does go down, a Life Orb Scizor is easier to sweep with end-game, since you aren't locked into a move.

Normally Grass Knot is excellent on Infernape, but in your case its not really necessary, so I would remove it for something else, such as Stealth Rock, or Thunderpunch

Knock Off on Gliscor would further help disable your opponent's bulky waters, if you end up putting Stealth Rock on Infernape, then you can use your empty moveslot for that.

Flash Cannon on Empoleon might seem silly at first, but it handles 3/4 of the examples you gave, and most of the Pokemon that resist it take plenty of damage from Surf. It also has a nice effect that will aid your sweep. Furthermore, once Torrent is active, Grass Knot only does about 4-5 points of damage more than Surf does. It is something you can consider if you don't like the Grass Knot vs. Ice Beam dilemna.

If you end up not liking Flash Cannon then I would definitely pick Ice Beam over Grass Knot in your case, since your team is more worried about Celebi/Latias/etc... than Gyarados.

If you decide to replace some of your Pokemon here are some things to consider:

I really don't like Gliscor on this team. I understand why you chose it, but if feels like dead weight when compared with your team's strategy. Momentum is important in your case, and after it sets up Stealth Rock Gliscor isn't really doing much to move things along.

Forretress can do both Roserade and Gliscor's main job on this team, and is something you should consider, since it will free up a Pokemon slot so that you can address some of the threats that give your team trouble.

Tyranitar would fit in greatly on your team. It can help you further wear out those bulky waters, and also gives you more offense, so that your whole team doesn't depend on a single Pokemon. It counters Latias and Porygon-Z very well, and can even moderately handle Starmie. Plus most of your Pokemon aren't worried about Sandstorm, whereas Swampert and Empoleon are the only bulky waters who don't mind it, and you have plenty of answers for both of those Pokemon (in this case you would leave Grass Knot on Empoleon, and possibly also on Infernape).

A Trick-scarfer or something similar can help disable Blissey, which is a huge problem for your Empoleon, especially since none of your other Pokemon can really lure it out.

All in all you have a pretty well-thought out team, you have a few defensive problems, but as long as you keep the pressure on your opponent with scizor and infernape your opponent should never get the chance to set up.

 

[Kachalski]

If your Adamant (pun intended) on using CBScizor, I would recommend either this EV spread:

160 HP / 176 Atk / 4 Spe / 168 SpD

For better overall bulk, or:

72 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe / 180 SpD

For better attacking power.

Also, you team is extremly weak to a Specially Based Mixape that runs 196 Spe, after Rotom-C goes down, you have a similar problem with Latias / Salamence / Kingdra. As such, I would recommend a Scarf Latias in place of Scizor:

Latias @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
Levitate

Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
Surf
Thunderbolt
Trick / Ice Beam / HP Fire

Of course, using HP Fire means you will always lose a Speed tie against other Scarf Latias who run Timid, but it does let you deal with a predicted Scizor switch in.

 

[monte.valentine]

thanks! I'll try these changes out asap and see how it goes