Empoleon Wi-Fi RMT

monte.valentine

Empoleon RMT (Wi-Fi)


This is based of a team that worked very well for me on Shoddy, and I decided to re-create it to use in battles with “real” Pokemon on Wi-Fi. After actually raising the team, I've found it works even better in this new battling environment.
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The basic goal of the team as a whole is to lay down entry hazards and weaken/eliminate Pokemon who would jeopardize Empoleon's sweep (generally bulky waters, grass and dragon types) or be a threat to Empoleon.


So, on to the team itself:
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Roserade @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Moveset: Grass Knot, Toxic Spikes, Sleep Powder, HP Rock


I've found Roserade to be a pretty effective lead so far. Its main job is to get Toxic Spikes in play (helping Empoleon handle stalls and walls in the endgame), and provide sleep support if need be. It has done a good job of handling most opposing leads as well. The only ones that have really given it trouble are Metagross, Jirachi, and faster Abomasnow sets. It also has the potential to come in later in the game to handle bulky waters and grounds, but due to its frailty I have found this to be a seldom-occurring blessing.

I only use HP Rock because that's what my best Roselia hatchling popped out with. I of course would have loved to have one with HP Fire, but frankly it's a pain in the ass to get it exactly right, so I do with what I have. Rock actually has worked pretty well against flying-types who expect to set up on Roserade. I also have a few hatchlings with HP Ground that could be substituted here, however they didn't have the nature or ability that I was looking for. I've also considered Shadow Ball in the last slot as an alternative.

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Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Moveset: Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Focus Blast, Trick


Empoleon demands entry hazards stay in play, so a good spin-blocker is necessary. When using this team on Shoddy this position was filled by Rotom-H, but Wi-Fi is a world where Rotom appliances don't exist. Therefore, Gengar is the best for the job. Choice Scarf allows it to outpace and revenge kill +1 Bulky Gyarados and Jolteon. It can also use Trick to turn the likes of Blissey, Snorlax, and Suicune into setup opportunities for Empoleon.


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Scizor @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Moveset: Bullet Punch, Swords Dance, Superpower, X-Scissor / Pursuit


Surprise! Scizor! Shocking, I know. The Swords Dance variant is used here, partly because I simply prefer it over the Choice Band set. Mainly I use it as an alternative sweeper in case something happens to Empoleon. I've been experimenting with Pursuit, and it works rather well in the place of X-Scissor. It allows Scizor not to be walled by Zapdos (although that's still not a match-up I want to happen), and lets me keep some of the trapping prowess from the CB set that helps handle Gengar, Azelf, and Latias. I've also been able to bluff a Choice Band using Pursuit and Lum Berry. The berry also helps me set up against Togekiss and Blissey's Thunder Waves.

The EV spread is a little different than I would run on Shoddy (due to my spacing out while obtaining the EVs and fighting about 30 extra Magikarps), but that has proven to be of little consequence.


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Gliscor @ Leftovers
Nature: Impish
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP, 216 Spe, 40 Def
Moveset: Earthquake, Stealth Rock / Taunt, Roost, Stone Edge


Gliscor's job is mainly to get Stealth Rock in play, and functions very well defensively on the team. It has been my primary Zapdos counter, and works well against Jolteon who don't carry HP Ice. It also has worked great against most Ape sets, except the few who carry HP Ice, obviously. I often use Gliscor to draw out ice and water attacks for Empoleon to switch in against for an easy setup. I did use Taunt in place of Stealth Rock before TM76 was made available to me (I had to find someone willing to let me restart their game and beat the first gym again) and it was very helpful in stopping sweepers and stallers from setting up. It may be a good idea to switch back. Please let me know if you agree.


Note: Hyper Cutter is another one of those “That's what happened to hatch” instances. If this team stays as is without it using Sand Stream, Hyper Cutter is actually more useful than Sand Veil in some cases, particularly against foes with Intimidate. Interestingly, people always tend to assume I run Sand Veil anyway, which can be advantageous.


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Infernape @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA, 192 Spe, 64 Atk
Moveset: Fire Blast, Close Combat, Grass Knot, Nasty Plot / Stealth Rock


I find MixApe to be extremely useful not only in wall breaking, but also to lure out & weaken those bulky waters that Empoleon doesn't really want to deal with. Empoleon is resistant to most of Infernape's weaknesses, and by drawing in these types of attacks Infernape can provide Empoleon with some easy switch-in opportunities when we're ready to begin the sweep. The issue of what to use in the last slot stumps me a little. Both can be easily used when Ape forces a switch. Both are very good to have in their own ways. It essentially boils down to whether or not Gliscor carries Stealth Rock, where if the answer is yes, Ape obviously would not need it. Plus, Nasty Plot is an egg move and I would really rather not replace it only to end up changing my mind. It's a real pain to go back and start from scratch.


One way to end this debate particularly swiftly would be the option of replacing Infernape altogether, which may be the best option. I've been thinking of Tyranitar for this role. He would still provide a great amount of offensive power and attract water and steel attacks that Empoleon would love to come in on. Tyranitar would also bring the advantages of a stronger defensive game and a perpetual sandstorm, which Scizor, Gliscor, and Empoleon would all welcome. I'm currently testing this idea on Shoddy, but I would also like to hear any of your opinions on the matter before I actually commit to raising the damn thing. Especially if you have any advice on which moveset you think would be best, I would really appreciate it.








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Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Nature: Modest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA, 232 Spe, 12 Def, 12 HP
Moveset: Surf, Agility, Substitute, Ice Beam / Grass Knot


Empoleon is the one that makes this all come together. If all goes well, it's more or less Game Over as soon as this guy hits the field. After the special attack boost from Petaya Berry and an Agility, I've encountered very few Pokemon able to stop this set. I list both Ice Beam and Grass Knot because I'm having an extremely difficult time picking between the two. While I've been testing this team, it seems that when I'm running Grass Knot, I end up one-on-one with a Celebi or Calm Mind Latias. Amazingly enough, when I make the switch to Ice Beam, all I seem to find are EQ Gyarados and Stallrein! Maybe it's just my rotten luck, but I would love a second opinion as to which of these non-STAB techniques to employ.




I have been very successful with this team so far, but I know you can most likely find some improvements to be made which I have overlooked. While rating, please keep in mind that this team is made for Wi-Fi, which as you know is a slightly different battling atmosphere than Shoddy Battle. There's no Rotom-A, legends like Celebi and Latias are rather difficult for many players to obtain, and there's the Acid Rain glitch which makes me reluctant to use Tyranitar. I have made adjustments, but I'm sure you guys can think of some better ones. Your help and comments are greatly appreciated!
 
Come to think of it, the Acid Rain glitch is beneficial to Empoleon most of the time. Whether it's ethical to take advantage of that or not is an entirely different question.
 
Just for your own reference, Rotom appliances do exist on Wi-Fi, though the Secret Key isn't currently available at this time. I've got one myself, and I'm sure many other people do as well, so if you're bent on getting a Rotom form there is still a possibility (though unlikely), not to mention the fact that you might run into a few in your battles. On that note, if you're looking for a straight up Spin blocker, you'd probably do better with Dusknoir or Spiritomb, especially since you've got a Scarf on your Gengar and may have to switch him out from a rapid spinner if you get caught in the wrong move (like Focus Blast against a Tentacruel).

Another pokemon you might run into some real problems with is Breloom, especially if he's carrying both Spore and Substitute and gets a good switch-in, which is possible since Roserade won't OHKO and Gliscor can't do anything significant other than Taunt. Ironically, a great pokemon that would help you out here would be Heat Rotom, though Dusknoir or a bulky flying type (Salamence, Dragonite, if you can find a good Zapdos) work well too.
 
That's a good point, Heat Rotom would fit very well. I know it's available, actually I have one and a Wash forme already. I was just under the impression that the appliances couldn't be used on Wi-Fi because of the fact that some folks still use Diamond or Pearl which doesn't recognize the different formes. I know for sure they don't work on Battle Revolution, and that's my main platform for Wi-Fi. I could be wrong about this being the case for DS games though.
 
monte.valentine said:
Come to think of it, the Acid Rain glitch is beneficial to Empoleon most of the time. Whether it's ethical to take advantage of that or not is an entirely different question.
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Two things wrong.

There is nothing unethical about using a game mechanic of any kind, even if you don't think it's supposed to be there. There never will be. That has nothing to do with "ethics" at all.

Secondly, doesn't acid rain hurt Empoleon? This is problematic, obviously.

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Now onto the team. Personally, I think Spiritomb or Dusknoir is a much better choice for a Spin blocker. Gengar is far too frail, OHKOed by both Forretress and Starmie with an ounce of prediction. Tentacruel heavily damages it. Obviously you can't use Rotom, so you'll have to make do with one of the other two. Dusknoir is a bit more adept at handling a wider variety of threats. ThunderPunch makes it a Gyarados check, Ice Punch lets Salamence not set up on it, and Will-O-Wisp is really cool to have. I don't know much about him as I haven't used him in a long time, but I'd suggest incorporating anyone other than Gengar.

Your current Roserade lead pretty much loses to every Azelf lead, and Azelf is the most common lead. Leaf Storm does sufficient damage to Azelf to make Roserade more competitive around Azelf, so I would suggest running it.

You currently have no method of handling Latias, which is Empoleon's biggest counter ever. If you use Ice Beam on Empoleon, you can handle it, though you need a way to wear down Bulky Waters to the point that unresisted Surf KOs them, and if you see a Vaporeon you're SOL without Grass Knot. The easiest way to deal with Latias is a Pursuit user. I guess there's Scizor for that, but you're playing Scizor as a late late game Pokemon rather than a utility you bring in to deal with threats like CB Scizor is. I'd mandate Pursuit and consider CB on Scizor.

Replacing Infernape with Tyranitar would be a decent move, providing the Pursuit you need to take care of Latias as well as Sand Stream. CB Pursuit lets you weaken everything you need to weaken. If you run Scizor it's not required, though the Sand is extremely beneficial to Empoleon's cause and I'd personally never run an Empoleon team without it. Standard MixApe isn't that good of a bulky water lure as most smart players know all smart Infernape users carry it. If you're concerned about stall breaking, Taunt Gliscor beats them rather handily (though the team needs Stealth Rock for specific KOs and to have a chance against Salamence).

Hope this advice helps. I tried not to make it exactly like my similar team I just posted in this forum; if you want more ideas, take a look and note what I have trouble with when modifying it to suit your needs.
 
Secondly, doesn't acid rain hurt Empoleon? This is problematic, obviously.
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Acid Rain does not hurt Empoleon because it doesn't hurt rock, steel, and ground types.

Just for your own reference, Rotom appliances do exist on Wi-Fi
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Only if the side using them activates the Action Replay code to use them on WiFi, since the games prevent their use otherwise for I don't know what reason. This applies to both Plat and HGSS.
 
Nice setup.
I've found it's better to run grass knot on empoleon, because it absolutely destroys swamperts that will try to roar you out of your petaya.
I also run roost on my scizor instead of x-scissor or pursuit, but it seems your isn't meant to be a main sweeper or anything, so pursuit is probably the best option.
 
Thank you both Chris and Jibaku. Actually Chris, I had read your RMT today, and that was the reason I posted this one. Not only did it get my gears turning about my own team, but I also figured that if people are already rating one Empoleon team they are likely to see mine as well =D small world, huh?

So, based on all your comments and research I've been doing into the wee hours of the morning, CB Tyranitar is a definite must-have here. The question now is how should the moveset be? Pursuit & Stone Edge obviously, probably Crunch for added STAB etc etc, but I'm not sure about the last slot. I'm thinking either Fire Punch to handle Scizor, or Aqua Tail to better take advantage of the Acid Rain that he'll be able to create.
(I did look this up, and Jibaku is right. "Acid Rain" when caused during a sandstorm as is likely here is essentially just sandstorm and rain occuring simultaneously. Non-rock/ground/steel types take damage like a normal sandstorm, and the effects of rain are activated. This means that water attacks get a boost, which is a big help obviously to Empoleon, and also to T-Tar's Aqua Tail. This is NOT the same as the Multi-Weather Chris is referring to, although that's what I had originally believed also, in which all Pokemon take damage from 3-4 different weather effects and so on and so forth. Yes, the Multi-Weather would be suicide more or less for Empoleon, who primarily operates at low Hp, but this probably won't be happening.)

So do I take Fire (I'm not exactly sure whether the power decrease takes effect in Acid Rain, I'm thinking not, correct me if I'm wrong), or Water? Or just screw it and go for higher BP with EQ?

Moving on to the ghost issue... lol this is turning into almost another RMT in it's own respect. As far as Gengar is concerned, I may have been a little misleading. Obviously the fact that it's a ghost makes it a spin-blocker by default, but I shouldn't have implied that it's particularly great at that job. I should have put greater emphasis on my use of this set primarily to revenge kill. I guess the biggest asset Gengar has in this role is the element of suprise, being able to take out the likes of Gyarados and ScarfTran who may not anticipate a Scarf or switch.
That having been said... My use of Gengar as such is probably a mistake in and of itself. On a team that doesn't lean so heavily on entry hazards, it's a wonderful set. However, the fact that she can be eliminated so easily with the opponent free so spin til their heart's content is not good news for the rest of the team. A much tougher ghost is probably a vital improvement.

So, this calls for testing! I already have a decent Dusknoir, so that's a piece of cake. Spiritomb would be a bit of a project, but not impossible. And there's always Shoddy for testing.
Thank you again for your thoughts, and if anyone has any others please feel free to chime in
 
monte.valentine said:
So, based on all your comments and research I've been doing into the wee hours of the morning, CB Tyranitar is a definite must-have here. The question now is how should the moveset be? Pursuit & Stone Edge obviously, probably Crunch for added STAB etc etc, but I'm not sure about the last slot. I'm thinking either Fire Punch to handle Scizor, or Aqua Tail to better take advantage of the Acid Rain that he'll be able to create.
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Aqua Tail is generally the preferred move as it lets Tyranitar beat Hippowdon and Gliscor easily. If you're super concerned about Scizor, Stone Edge on the switch will OHKO when it hits. I would use Aqua Tail, as the Acid Rain boost basically seals the deal in terms of its superiority to Earthquake.
 
If you can get it, X-scissor is entirely outclassed on Scizor by Bug Bite. 90bp vs 80, and a very occasionally helpful added effect.
If you run a Ttar, Gliscor's ability should be changed to sand veil. (yes I know this would mean breeding another Gliscor - you should test the team, post it, then make the team for real)
 
thank you. any thoughts or suggestions on Dusknoir's offensive moves? I'm leaning toward EQ & Fire Punch, but there are merits to T-Punch and Ice Punch as well
 
I've been using Empoleon for basically my entire career (on serious teams anyways) and I've found that toxic spikes don't really aid him as much as you'd like. Empoleon withers itself down to 25% (usually 18 because of rocks, or even lower) to set up and thus all it takes is for someone to withstand one attack and counter it to beat it. Vaporeon can dent it and even beat it before the poison gets to it. Blissey seismic toss. Latias is immune. Cresselia is immune. Celebi can finish you. And so on and so forth.

I personally think running spikes on Roserade would be more beneficial for you, as it'll help ensure some OHKO. If I had more time, I'd get some calculations for you.
 
The common spinners in OU are Starmie, Forretress, and Tentacruel.

So I was using this before, maybe you want a different set but I don't think the standard fits the current metagame.

Dusknoir @Leftovers
Careful
252hp 252atk 6def
-Earthquake
-Thunderpunch
-Fire Punch
-Pain Split

This way you easily beat the 3 of them one on one. He isn't horrible if he gets tricked a scarf either. It worked surprisingly well on Shoddy. Probably even better on Wifi.

And you may want to go for Life Orb on Empoleon with grass knot/ice beam over Substitute. In that case make sure you keep Stealth Rock, because that could be the difference you need in power and you won't find yourself walled anymore. And if you go for Tyranitar the sandstorm damage would get you even further.
 
I agree, Spikes has a lot of advantages over T-Spikes, but it is impossible as far as I know to get Spikes and Sleep Powder at the same time for Roserade
 
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