European Events - What did you think?

[Dozz]

Okay guys, I think now that a few days have passed since the end of the EU leg of the season and emotions have simmered down from anyone still competing on the last day in Milan, it's about time to open up the floor to some feedback. The only reason I do this, is because I spoke to Anthony, from TPCi on Sunday (the EU events man), and he seemed very interested in what the players had to say about events. It was clear from my conversation with him that he wants every event to really satisfy the majority of the player base, and he seemed very open to listening to constructive criticisms and suggestions from us as players and doing his best to implement them within the restrictions of time, money etc. It's known that TPCi do browse the forums, and if the quality of discussion in this thread is good enough, I may even consider forwarding it on. I think it's fair to open the floor up on this one, as not everyone had the chance to talk to him, and give him feedback personally.

So, there were a few key issues that we ended up coming round to in our conversation, so these are what I think we should gather feedback on. The issues were as follows.

• Format - VGC in Europe has always been single elimination, meaning one loss, and you're out. This year with the awkward competitor numbers, it seemed we were all looking for swiss. Do you think that Swiss would be the way forward, ensuring 6 matches or so each, or would you all be happy with it staying as is? What about Double elimation?
• Timing - This year, two times about the events were changed. First of all, the order in which the divisions were played was switched. Did you think this was great? Or would you like it back the way it was? They also moved the time of year, moving it forward a couple of months. Was this better for people's school/University schedules overall, as I know they had this in mind when picking dates.
• Location - How did you feel about the places they chose to hold them? Did they pick the best city for it in each nation, considering where people may be travelling from? What about the actual venues? Did you think they were nice venues, or were some not as nice as others in comparison to previous years and events?
• Other comments - I've only listed the main issues I discussed above. Is there anything else you think needs bringing up like side events on the day? Or the amount of screens? Was the announcer excellent in one location? If you have something you feel TPCi need to see, make sure to mention it!

Now, as much as I want to hear from you, I will be moderating this thread quite heavily. Lets keep the feedback well thought and constructive please, so it's worth passing on! No absolute flaming of the events, personal attacks, or completely irrelevant complaints. Keep it on topic about the events, so we can have events we all want next year!

 

[keelhauled]

Firstly, I just have to say I had an incredible amount of fun in both events I attended, both the events itself and the social aspect.
I don't mind Single Elim, it's somewhat necessary given the turnout for VGCs, especially in the UK. If numbers could be lowered, either with more regionals, or more dates, swiss may be possible, but otherwise, it seems like the only reasonable option, something I don't mind, even having lost early at both attempts.

Timings for masters division was dreadful, no other word can describe how bad it was for masters. I cannot see any argument that could be used to put juniors/seniors in the afternoon slot. There is a larger turnout for masters, better players, and the majority of masters will travel up alone via public transport, something which is made incredibly more difficult when you have to arrive at around 7.00am or earlier. It adds more to the travelling costs when you have to fork out for hotels as well. Yes the younger entrants also face this problem, although they have parents taking them, so it is easier to either drive up early, or spend a night in a hotel. It's pretty ineffable how bad the timing was this year, and it's probably the only problem i've had with vgc as a whole in 2012.

Locations again, were fine, birmingham is very easy for lots to get to, and there were plenty of hotels / transport links nearby. Paris also, was fine to get to, airports, trains, coaches, no problems there.

The blackjack staff I spoke to were all very nice, and were great with any queries, and nice and friendly, local staff did what they needed to, although little more. Hosts were fine, especially the french host, who certainly improved the event. Only discrepancy is the repeating of the music, each year it's always the same two songs being played repeatedly, and most of the players (as well as some of the staff) have got pretty fed up with it.

All in all, a good season for euro nats, with the exception of timings!

 

[Umbreon91]

I only attended the VGC in Milan this year (and that in Rome last year).
I can say that this year everything was better, from the location to the people to the battles.
Yes of course hax played its major role since all of the top italian players got haxed 1 or 2 turns before the qualification, so as for the format it really would be better if it was a swiss or a double elimination, or even single elimination with a best of three for each round; or a combination of the above.
Masters shouldn't really be playing in the afternoon since I enjoyed it even more than lst year: I could do everything I would have liked to because I didn't have to bother about my team or the people there playing.
Location was better than last year because Centro Congressi was much closer to the metro station and to the city center, even if it was several kilometers far from it. Of course Rome would have been preferred since it costs much less and it is the capital (and not so far from here) but Milan is ok too.

 

[shinycarletto]

I've enjoyed vgc a lot this year and i wish that it will become swiss.
Also i hope that nintendo will organize more event like an european tuournament where the players who did top16/32 and not top4 at nationals can play for like other prizes or places for worlds.

 

[Starbuccaneer]

I didn't get the chance to attend this year, but I did attend last year in Birmingham. I thought the venue and hosts were both great, and they had enough going on in the place to keep you entertained. If I had gone this year, from the sound of things I'd have been majorly peeved about the time change - Gonkhauled brings up the main points, masters are generally traveling alone while juniors and seniors are more likely to have parents bringing them, meaning a hotel is easier for them. Just makes sense.

I definitely agree with Pokemafia when he says we should get straight-up hack checks, I remember a few battlers boasting fairly loud about gaining their pokemon through mysterious methods, and their competitors may not have had a clue and lost because of it. Sure, it'd take longer, but time didn't seem to be an issue in 2011, there was time enough to fit that in. Maybe not time enough to go swiss, but that sure would be awesome. Hax man.

 

[Picollo]

i attended in birmingham as a player and Essen + Paris as a visitor and supporter <3

Format: PLEASE TPCI MAKE ANOTHER FORMAT RIGHT NOW. yeah i write it in big letters because this is the most thing which concerns me attending on a vgc and not even since this year, it bothers me right when VGC started in europe..Pokemon is about luck and i want to see the best plyers in each region and not the luckiest one...of course bad luck is equal for everyone and there is a little trend that we see sometimes the same faces on the tops..but there are a lot of players eg. Tblackey who make it always very close to the tops and then got haxed. myself is the best example i was ALWAYS so godamn close to the flights and iam somewhat sure that i would have been more qualifiers if there is another format..why no double elimination or swiss? Time cant be that argument, seeing that the TGC Players also play swiss format and finish pretty fast their championships...

Timing: On the one hand i like to attend pretty early , cause you can still do something (make party or talk to players) after the tournament, on the other hand , yeah it pretty sucks if you come from far away and i think there are much more Masters who do travel. more than juniors or seniors..so i prefer a later time for the masters (or make a one day event with a different format above ^ )

Location: i love Birminghams NEC so this should stay the next years..in Germany i think Cologne is better..and paris..can still stay , much better than Lyon in 10´

 

[Matty85]

This year I attended France and Italy nationals, and i really enjoyed a lot. The organization of the events is great and the staff is really nice.
The main thing that needs to be changed is certainly the format of the events...in a game like Pokémon, in which the luck factor may have a considerable weight, you can not adopt a method such as single elimination. This is in contrast to the fact that events are open to players of every nation, because I am sure that many people do not travel for fear of being eliminated in the first or second fight, wasting money on a journey without any results.
As I already said in the other discussion, Swiss rounds would be the best option. This format helps the players to improve, because treats them in democratic and meritocratic way.
I start with the same chance to beat my opponent if I win, I can aspire to more and stronger players collide and experience, and if I lose, I learn from my mistakes and put them to good use in the following games, where will I find (theoretically) more players at my level. At the same time, the tournament encourages players to socialize, discuss and exchange of valuable knowledge.
Swiss rounds and a Top16 or Top8 single elimination (still better if best of 3) would be the best format...This will require the organization of events of two days, but certainly it's not impossible, and the fact that the U.S. national follow this method should prove it.

Timing and location are ok. No problem with Masters playing in the morning and Seniors/Juniors in the afternoon, but also vice versa is ok. I really liked the location of Italian nationals...wonderful place!

A final remark about the fact that events are open to players of all countries...I really appreciate this fact, as it encourages players to know each other. I wasn't allowed to play, but meet you all was even more fun than if I played, so I think that European events should remain open.

 

[Osirus182]

I like many of you know attended Birmingham, Paris and Madrid this year. All three events like usual were very well organised and presented in true Pokémon style, kitted out with the banners, wall boards and all the glossy apparell that added to making it feel like a great event on the day, in that respect I don't think all us competitors can do anything but be very grateful and thank all of the staff for their efforts and work.

In regards to the structure of the events, I like the majority think we need a swiss format introduced within all EU events. It has worked well at the US nationals for the last two years and its something that can be implemented in my opinion with not a lot of issues. I do understand that TCPi are concerned about time constrants as swiss would naturally take a lot longer to process than single elimination meaning we would ideally need a two day championships again taking stead from the States, Swiss day one and Top Cut day two, this would cost more but there are ways to work around this. One thing I would suggest if I had the chance would be to combine TCG and VGC Nationals into the same weekend, it would mean having a larger venue but combining the two surely saves costs somewhere down the line if this were to happen, if this were to happen, in my opinion it would enchance the events, more competitors, better atmosphere and on a much larger scale which would only help promote the brand, which is what all parties want.

The problem we have at the moment is that our European National events are on a similar scale to what the previous US regional events held in 2011, 2010 and 2009 were, if things were to stay as they are now with single elimination the only other option I can possibly see working is to have a European National Championships after the 6 or so seperate European events have taken place.

Now on to regional locking, I personally do not agree with TPCi ever introducing a region lock it would like taking a step backwards within these events that seem to be striving to stride forward every year.

The only way I could possible see a region lock being implemented would be if TPCi were to introduce a European National Championships at the end of the seperate european championship events. Then locking players to their respected countries to earn a place to play and represent their own country would in a way make sense, but whether this is something people would like to see happen or not is another thing, its just a suggestion.

Locations, I cant really complain about the locations for these events, bar Paris but thats a one off for this year, I hope. The dates between events are perfect, but I do think the big move to making these events earlier in year is something that hasn't worked out as well as TPCi had possibly planned, I know a lot of people couldnt commit to these events because of their studies ect, which I think TPCi should take in to consideration when planning the events for next year, moving them to the back end of May might be the best thing to do.

One of my biggest gripes, and this will be my last (i promise) for this years events was starting Masters division at 8am, I understand that yes TPCi need to makesure they have enough time to get through the scheduled daily events and masters taking the most time it makes sense i get it out the way before seniors and juniors. Moving Masters to this earlier time has made getting to events more costly and in some cases very difficult for its participants.

If we look at it like this, very sterotypically I admit, but in most instances the truth, most Junior and Senior players will be brought to these events by their parents, in most cases travelling by car meaning they can travel anytime morning, afternoon or night if need be not having to rely heavily on booking hotels ect, which this years masters have had to do.

Being a master myself I am very one sided towards this but in truth the masters division within the VGC's is the largest division and ending the day with the masters finals will always make more sense to me, look at every other major organised event the day will always end with the biggest spectacle.

Well thats pretty much my two cents on the whole thing for this year, I've had a lot of fun travelling to the events, meeting all of the great people in the Pokemon community and I just wish we had more events to play at but I guess everyones in the same mind frame as that.

It would be nice to see some changes made to the european events for next year but I understand these things can't just happen over night and will cost money and take time to implement which maybe something TPCi don't have the surpless for to accomodate at this time, whatever happens Im just grateful we have these events and Im already looking forward to them next year.

 

[Baz Anderson]

This year was my first year attending Pokémon VGC events. I went to Birmingham and Paris and enjoyed both very much.

Regarding the format; if the choice is between an event held over two days to accommodate a Swiss format, or a single elimination one day event - my choice would be for the one day single elimination, although I wouldn't be against Swiss. Yes, it is annoying when you're knocked out because of a move missing or a critical hit (as I was in Paris) - but people need to realise that this is Pokémon, not chess. I imagine the top 20 or so at each event are all of equal "skill", but players also need some luck to make the top 4 and either it happens or it doesn't...

Times; I did not attend last year so I can not compare. I did however like the early starts. So we queue from 07:00 each morning to ensure a spot - that is just one hour before doors open. If the Master division was to open up at 13:00 (or whenever) I would imagine the "safe time" to start queueing would ensure a much longer wait than one hour.

Location; Birmingham was great for me. I live a two hour drive away, but I would much rather Birmingham than London, as I am sure many people north of London would agree. Other European events are already an epic travel whichever city they take place in.

Other comments; It would be nice if there was more activities to take part in after the actual tournament. The littler TVs were great, and the special five trainer challenge in game was good fun too. There's not much else to keep people after the tournament is over though.

The shop in Birmingham could have also had much more merchandise on it, I am sure if people are willing to spend so much money travelling to these events, they would also be willing to spend some money on an event t-shirt for example.

I don't think the events should be country-specific entrants only. The variety is part of what gives the events such a good atmosphere, the fact that people are so dedicated to Pokémon that they will base a holiday or adventure around it. It's great.

The events are wonderfully organised though, and everyone who works towards these has my appreciation.

 

[NidoRich]

• Format - Personally I like the way it is done currently....I know there is the chance of major hax happening and hell it happened to me at the point where it mattered most but it's a game that is meant to be enjoyed and not taken so hard. I would say yes to the change but only to see how it would turn out and see if it would create as good an atmosphere as it is currently.
• Timing - The timings of the events were both hit and miss for me. A hit because of the time of year they have held them but miss because of doing the Masters division first, I would say that yes I know the situation with parents and such but the majority of the fanbase that play competitively would be in the Masters division.
• Location - Location, was amazing for both UK and Paris and I hope they do the VGC in Birmingham for years to come.
• Other comments - I found that the UK commentator was nowhere near in the league of the French commentator! The French commentator was so much more into it. We should also not introduce the Nation-Lock as I beleive the tournaments are half about the tournament and the other half is meeting the community and enjoying it.....which you get to do more when other nations are involved, my point being how Team UK and Team Germany hung out after the VGC and I personally found that to be the best time during my Paris weekend.

In short.
VGC: YES! YES! YES! YES!
Nation-Lock: NO! NO! NO! NO!

 

[Showsni]

Had a great time again this year!

Format: If the time constraints allowed Swiss with a cut to top 16, that would obviously be preferable. A cut to top 16 would also alleviate the current random bye system somewhat, and thus one less round would have to be played. As it stands, people get byes into the top 16 based purely on luck, which isn't ideal. (No, I'm not bitter about having to play an extra round!)

Timing: I actually somewhat preferred the time switch. In previous years, people always began queuing up for the Master's ridiculously early, resulting in two to three hours spent sitting in a queue before they'd even opened registrations - a dismal state of affairs, when I'd much rather be wandering around the hall and watching the other matches going on. By having the Masters first they neatly eliminated this problem for the larger age group this year (I didn't notice how early the Juniors/Seniors started queuing, but even if it was as early at least less people were being forced into the pointless queue). The problem, of course, is people who have to travel some distance to get to Birmingham... I'm lucky in that I live close enough this didn't affect me, but I can see how it would be a problem for some people. As to the time of year, it matters little to me... My school days are behind me...

Location: Brilliant. Don't change! Stay in Birmingham!

Other Comments: As mentioned, the UK announced doesn't really seem to be all that knowledgable about Pokémon. She's not bad as an announcer, but it would be nice to have someone who actually knew the series. I liked the addition of a merchandise shop this year, and more side events for next year would be great.

 

[Spaniard]

I attended Madrid and Milan. I found the staff to be very nice and the VGC itself was very well organised.

As most people, I don't like single elimination. I'd suggest using double elimination . Swiss reduces luck impact, but I like the the tension of seeing people advance and having an actual final. Single elimintion with best of three games would be perfect, but I really don't want to have a two day tournament (many players have to travel and an extra day means more money spent).

I'd also like to have more than 15 min per battle (I lost a technically won battle on Italy because of this and tiebreakers), either that or let us play without animations that take out a lot of time. I would also prefer playing without outside music I find it distracting. I also think that the in-game low HP music is very irritating and you can do nothing about it on TV matches.

I don't care about who plays first (masters/seniors/juniors). People travelling to the VGC often arrive the day before the event. As a master I liked playing first since I'm at full energy/concentration right after waking up and I loved the fact that I had time to talk to other people after finishing.

Also I don't want a country lock. Travelling and meeting people from outside was the best aspect of the VGC. As long as there are high quality players, I don't care where the winners come from.

I think the event locations were good.

I'd like to write about cheating or missbehaving. While I didn't encounter any problems myself (nor did most people) I think VGC should be more strict about annoying or missbehaving oponents. I'd put special stress on infrared connection. I know there were some cases of people that tried to avoid a loss by extracting the DS cartridge or moving the DS away to ruin the infrared connection. Those are very cheap ways of cheating and there's not much people can do to prevent them, prove that your opponent did them or prove innocent.

Lastly I want to say something about RNG abusing (which is not cheating). I don't know how to abuse the RNG so I had a friend doing it for me (I gave him the team on paper). Most people don't know how to RNG abuse and many of them are not lucky enough to know people that can do that for them. You're pretty much forced to use perfect pokemon to have a shot at winning. Some people don't have access to perfect pokemon (they can't win even if they're strong players) and they don't even participate at the VGC because of this. The guy that RNG'd my team prepared like 40 teams this year, he says he spent a whole month playing eight hours a day to help people participate on the VGC. That's a lot of work for teams that are going to be used in 9 matches at most. So I beg Nintendo lets people play with pokesaved pokemons as long as the team can be legaly built on PO. Another option would be Nintendo letting us "hire" a team. If you don't have a team on your DS cartridge or can't build it properly, we could tell Nintendo what our desired team is (via website) a few days before the event, and as long as it is aproved, they could lend us the team for the event and then we would give it back. Basically what I mean is playing the same way we do on emulators, we don't spend time obtaining our team, we just design it and then play.

Thanks for reading.