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NOC Everchanging Mafia - Game thread - Day 3!

is it possible that scum ecat just didnt think to keep mayor?
Definitely possible, perhaps even likely lol

But I think the self-crucifixion does ultimately read as town bc he either did some very strong tone faking or he did seem legitimately defeated / resigned

I also think the enthusiasm / hype when Bliz first defended him was authentic, and seeing those peaks and valleys has just kinda made me think he’s town. He wouldn’t really have them if he were getting attacked or defended by scumbuds, y’know, cos it would be planned and/or defence is just their duty as other members of the scum team

Are the people chainsaw defending him town though? Prob not lol
 
Chainsaw defence to this extent with such little foundation is just really hard to overlook, and the reason I moved from ECat to Bliz is that chainsaw defending is usually done by scum to defend town as a pocketing technique with the by-product of keeping a likely future misvote and creating a new potential misvote by establishing a TvT

So if ECat’s town it actually makes Bliz scum likelier lol
 
I’m still obviously evaluating Bliz he just hasn’t done anything that impacts my read on him

In fact he’s not doing what I would anticipate town to do (defend his arguments) which additionally impacts my read on him negatively but I’m already voting him so yk
 
I still think Bliz is scum bc the Peum case simply doesn’t work and Bliz has just ghosted attempts to point this out to him now so wcyd
Can you explain to me WHY the case against Peum does not work? Because the only counterargument I've seen is "look at Peum, they're scumhunting!" I feel like Peum tried really hard to railroad a lynch that, well, I don't totally disagree with, but their logic is questionable. And you even just admitted that the lynch target Peum is pushing is "liklier to be town [than you thought before] by quite a lot." So, why is Peum obvtown?

its weird how the peum case is just an omgus but from everyone on ecats behalf

its quite literally the exact same logic as an omgus
OMGUS.png
 
Yeah like I said on the last page Bliz is my top scumread at the moment and I don’t think he did any favors for himself in my eyes since then by voting ECat, who I think people have finally seen the light on their innocence. After last game the fact that Celever and DBD agree on anything is crazy to me haha but I like a Bliz vote more than a vishy vote or an ECat vote.

##Vote: Blizihguh
 
Can you explain to me WHY the case against Peum does not work? Because the only counterargument I've seen is "look at Peum, they're scumhunting!" I feel like Peum tried really hard to railroad a lynch that, well, I don't totally disagree with, but their logic is questionable. And you even just admitted that the lynch target Peum is pushing is "liklier to be town [than you thought before] by quite a lot." So, why is Peum obvtown?
I did and you dropped the conversation lol

Fair enough sleeping but you could’ve still replied when you woke up, instead of just telling me you were asleep x3

Feel free to pick up where you left off!
 
I don’t care that you’re voting Peum like Peum is obvtown imo but I’m not chainsaw defending Peum

You’re scum bc your case’s conclusion doesn’t match its premises, which increases the chances of it being agendaed a lot
 
Yeah like I said on the last page Bliz is my top scumread at the moment and I don’t think he did any favors for himself in my eyes since then by voting ECat, who I think people have finally seen the light on their innocence. After last game the fact that Celever and DBD agree on anything is crazy to me haha but I like a Bliz vote more than a vishy vote or an ECat vote.

##Vote: Blizihguh
What is this post
 
As I said before, voting ECat isnt a matter on how towny he looks, its a matter of policy. We will have to vote him sooner or later due to the case that he did indeed throw day 1. Anyone who is denying this is either looking for facts that dont exist or are simply trying to hard to save ECat, both which dont look good.
 
As I said before, voting ECat isnt a matter on how towny he looks, its a matter of policy. We will have to vote him sooner or later due to the case that he did indeed throw day 1. Anyone who is denying this is either looking for facts that dont exist or are simply trying to hard to save ECat, both which dont look good.
Tbh I think if Bliz flips scum ECat’s probtown so this is a route whereby we don’t have to vote ECat eventually. Particularly if phoopes is also scum. I think Bliz + phoopes scumteam is above rand likely and Bliz + phoopes + ECat scumteam is far far below rand likely

Ik wym wrt policy and we should do that, but we also did that right? We heavily pressured ECat, that’s the consequence, now gamestate has moved onto better leads imo
 
As I said before, voting ECat isnt a matter on how towny he looks, its a matter of policy. We will have to vote him sooner or later due to the case that he did indeed throw day 1. Anyone who is denying this is either looking for facts that dont exist or are simply trying to hard to save ECat, both which dont look good.
No I just think that it’s okay to be wrong sometimes and would rather vote someone who’s actually scummy over a policy town vote
 
I am going to outline my rationale for voting Peum as clearly as I possibly can in one, single post, and then every time Celever tells me I'm not defending my argument or it doesn't make sense I'm just going to link back to this.

TL;DR: I think ECat could reasonably be town. Peum has been tunneling them with very dubious logic, and doing very little else. I think Peum could be scum even if ECat is also scum, so voting them was not logically inconsistent. My main goal was just to get a second wagon going, and Peum is in roughly the same ballpark of scumminess as ECat, imo. That wagon blew up in my face though, and the alternatives suck, so I'm back to ECat for now.

1. Expecting ECat to claim Mayor purely because Peum said they should is really flimsy.
Peum spent most of D1 repeating that Mayor should claim, and that it was really scummy for Mayor not to claim. As far as I can tell, two other people echoed this statement (me and Celever), and we both did so exactly once. So, I do not think it is that meaningful for ECat to have ignored this. I especially think this because (as we will see in the next paragraph), Peum was already criticizing ECat D1.

2. ECat has been playing like an unconfident townie.
I do not think ECat is guaranteed to be town. Like I said earlier, I'm like 60-40 or 70-30 in favor of them being scum. But the way they've been playing is perfectly consistent as town. They made a random vote D1, because they claimed not to know what to do. They got shouted down for it and fucked off for the rest of the day. Does that sound like anybody you've ever met? Because I think there's been at least two of these players in every mafia game I've ever played. Almost always they are town. The main reason I'm scumreading ECat at this point is that their defense of their actions D2 has been very flimsy and at times seemingly contradictory. But again, people saying stupid or confusing shit is not that uncommon in this game. It is actually pretty common for the type of player that would engage in that pattern of behavior D1. So, it's not inconceivable to me that they are town. For completeness, I still think dropping Mayor is questionable behavior and not super likely from town. But I 100% understand why someone would do this after they placed a vote D1 and got yelled at by several people. I, as an overly-confident player, understand why they got yelled at. But some of the posts were extremely vague ("worst post of all time"), and I would expect an unconfident player to get extremely demoralized by them. Which is exactly in line with what ECat was posting.

3. A huge portion of Peum's "scumhunting" has just been tunneling ECat.
Peum set this shit up D1, and has said nothing about anyone other than ECat today. 15 hours ago they said they would and then kinda fucked off out of the thread. I recognize that that is consistent with "they went to bed," but it still doesn't change the fact that they have been hyper focused on this one thing. As laid out above, I think their reasoning for suspecting ECat is questionable at best. It seems like everyone else now thinks ECat could easily be town, so I don't even slightly understand why we've all decided by fiat that Peum is town? Literally all they have done is push ECat. Is this some Peum player meta shit that I am not aware of? I genuinely do not understand why everyone is locktowning Peum and people keep posting "Bliz is scum because why on earth would he think Peum is scum here???"

4. ECat Town + Peum Scum makes perfect sense. ECat Scum + Peum Scum seems, at least, plausible to me. ECat Scum + Peum Town is also logically consistent, but I don't buy it for the above reasons.
I don't think I need to explain either of the TvS possibilities. TvT is also possible, but I do not have any other leads at this point. I will explain again why I think SvS is possible here. Basically, I think it is possible that Scum Peum was setting up for this mayor claim thing, and then Scum ECat just forgot to post/vote at the end of the day. ECat was pretty low activity D1, especially after half the thread yelled at them, including (in this scenario) their scumbuddy. It seems totally plausible to me that Scum ECat just kind of checked out for a bit there. Then, when they got back to scumchat N1, they were met with some variation of "well you look super scummy now and I'm kinda locked into bussing you, sorry." The fact that people have somehow started turning around on ECat D2 does not change the fact that all of the above is at least plausible. In particular, if one or more of the people pushing me are mafia, this could easily be a case of "mafia thought they were going to have to lynch ECat today, but they realized they had a chance to lynch me instead, either saving ECat for tomorrow or just letting town forget about them." In fact, if I flip after "chainsaw defending" ECat, mafia could easily spin that as "look, Bliz is town and they defended ECat!" When in reality, I am still saying they're >50% scum!

5. I am voting ECat right now because I still think they are reasonably likely to be scum, and the alternative lynch is apparently Vishyfishy.
I tried to start an alternative lynch and everybody jumped on me for it. I do not understand why. I do not have the bandwidth right now to attempt to find another lead that town will actually go for. I am already dedicating too much time to this game, relative to the other obligations in my life, because I am a Mafia Lifer and it's fun for me. But everyone scumreads me and I'm not going to slog through iso'ing random people, because my scum reads at this point are Peum I'm not going to vote vishyfishy, because they read to me like they're probably town, and I am HIGHLY suspicious of any lynch on an "easy mislynch" player that suddenly rockets to the top of the votals. So, my options here are to wait for something else to come along, or to try to push through a vote on another person. But who am I going to vote for? Not Peum apparently.

I will lay out my reads on other people now but I just want to keep this post centered on ECat/Peum. I can understand people calling my assumptions here dubious, but I think literally everything I have said in this post is something I've said in a previous post. So anyone saying "I have no logic" or "haven't defended my position" is just completely ignoring the shit I'm saying.
 
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