Feisty Ones, Aren't They?

[Punchshroom]

Hello everyone, Punchshroom here! While I'm usually active in the NU forum, LC is my little getaway tier for when Crit Brave Birds and Freeze Beams get to me. LC is quite an interesting tier. Where OU titans Politoed, Salamence, and Tyranitar roam unchallenged in their domain, their most basic forms don't quite do so well in the respective environment. Instead, the pre-evolutions of the likes of Rapidash, Carracosta and Mismagius are what you really have to worry about, and can throw off an OU veteran. The EV placement is also very finicky. Since I've played in a tier full of underdogs, I've adjusted to LC's playsytle quite quickly.

And without further delay:

Teambuilding Process:

Hide

I'll be honest here, my thought process here is almost completely straightforward (keep in mind I was first trying out the tier at this point). I wasn't trying to facilitate an endgame-sweep, go aggro offense on the opponent or wear them out passively. Basically it went something like: hay Larvesta seemz kewl so

?

Alright, so I wasn't making my team like a headless chicken, I knew what Larvesta needed to succeed. First off, SR needs to be off the field, and the spinner resisting one of Larvy's weaknesses as a bonus. Between Sandshrew, Drilbur, and Staryu, I chose the starfish to resist the Water weakness as opposed to sharing it and helps take out physically bulky pokes like Hippopotas and Tirtouga which Larvesta has no chance of breaking past.

However, Staryu wasn't quite enough to contain the Water-type threats, as Chinchou and opposing Staryu can pose problems. Lileep makes any Water-type pause before trying to drown Larvesta, and can setup SR as well. Lileep also does not go down easily at all, making it quite a pain for teams to bring down.

A Scarfer can be important to contain the ocassional speed demon that threatens to steamroll me. Porygon makes a fantastic Scarfer due to Trace, which copies Drilbur's Sand Rush and throws in Scarf's boost into the mix, granting me protection against the "Double Rush" strategy of Drilbur and Sandshrew. It can also revenge stuff like Murkrow and weakened Misdreavus among other things.

A stand-alone sweeper is great in this meta, where all it takes is one or two boosts to get rolling. Scraggy, Timburr, Dratini, and Tirtouga are amongst many examples I could've chosen for this role. In the end, I went for Timburr because it has power, bulk, pseudo-recovery, priority, and Guts all in one, making for a very self-sustaining sweeper and is preferable over Mienfoo who is screwed over by Will-o-Wisp.

Now I wanted something that can cover Timburr's weaknesses to Psychic and Flying, as Abra and Murkrow are pretty notable threats. Bronzor can set up on both as it shrugs off their blows, even without Eviolite. For those who haven't the slightest idea what an Eviolite-less Bronzor that sets up can do, you'll be enlightened soon enough.

Larvesta
@Eviolite
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 156 Def / 36 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk) Ability: Flame Body
U-Turn / Flare Blitz / Morning Sun / Zen Headbutt​

The pokemon I started off with. I like this pokemon, so I decided to try and make him work. Thankfully, he has a niche in countering any Fighting-type without a Rock-type move. Most Fighting types either worry about Misdreavus or do not have the moveslot for it (the lack of bulky Fighting-resist Flyers justifies this). Larvesta is here to give them a rude awakening as they not only cannot touch Larvesta, but also cannot afford to, thanks to Flame Body. This spares Larvesta damage from the likes of Mienfoo's U-Turns. While Timburrs do not mind burns, they will succumb to Larvesta's powerful blows and burn damage before Bulk Up and Drain Punch can save them.

Larvesta packs a fierce punch despite its defensively inclined nature. U-Turn is good STAB and preserves momentum, while Flare Blitz nukes opponents, most notably Ferroseed. Morning Sun goes a long way in offsetting recoil and SR damage, enhancing Larvesta's survivability. Since Larvesta usually can't risk Flare Blitzing into the Fighting types it counters, as they have generally good defense and HP, Zen Headbutt allows me to strike them hard, recoil free. Wild Charge is useless against Chinchou anyway whereas Staryu needs to be hit on the switch (hitting Mantyke can be nice though).

EVs grant good power and bulk, the rest dumped into Speed.

Staryu
@Eviolite
EVs: 36 HP / 200 Sp.Atk / 240 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk) Ability: Natural Cure
Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Rapid Spin / Recover​

One of the premier offensive Spinners of the tier, Staryu offers good synergy with Larvesta: the former spins away hazards and deals with physical walls, whereas Larvesta preys on Grass-types. Really though, there isn't too much to say about Staryu that hasn't been said already. It's a really good spinner that can threaten a lot of pokemon with good speed, high powered moves and good coverage, boasting incredible offensive presence for a primarily supportive pokemon.

Hydro Pump is what gives Staryu the kick that makes it threatening, as Surf is noticeably weaker on neutral targets. Thunderbolt is more useful than Ice Beam as it hits Mantyke, Frillish and opposing Staryu, while the threat of Grass-types and Dragon-type Dancers can be contained by Larvesta and Porygon respectively. Rapid Spin is obvious, as it gives Staryu its greatest niche. Recover keeps Staryu healthy and continually spin hazards away throughout the match.

EVs maximize Sp.Atk and Speed (though I think there may be excess in there), the rest invested in HP because.

Lileep
@Eviolite
EVs: 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 Sp.Def
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk) Ability: Storm Drain
Giga Drain / Stealth Rock / Ancientpower / Recover​

One of the best switch-ins to Water-types in the tier, Lileep helps to contain Staryu and Chinchou from having their way with me. It is also the Stealth Rock setter of the team, and does a pretty good job at that too. Its Electric resistance can come in handy too, but is really not notable due to the rarity of Electric-types in the tier and the fact that Magnemite can strike back with STAB Flash Cannon. However, Lileep's great defenses ensure the opponent would usually have to rely on tactics other than brute force to bring it down (Fighting-types are quite the pain, but Larvesta can take them on).

Giga Drain is your obligatory Grass STAB, scoring good damage and recovers health at once, which is fantastic in a tier where every bit of HP counts. Stealth Rock. Ancientpower preserves Lileep's IVs as opposed to Hidden Power [Rock] which ruins its perfect balance of bulk (notably dropping Lileep's Sp.Def by 1 point) and has the nifty side effect of raising all your stats. Oh and it hits Grass resists like Fire-, Flying- or Bug-types. Recover is the crux of Lileep's set, and makes it very hard to wear down.

As one of the very few LC pokemon to fully utlise its EVs, Lileep can be more easily customised than other pokemon. The above spread of 228 HP / 220 Def / 60 Sp.Def with Bold grants Lileep 26 HP, 18 Def and 16 Sp.Def, pre-Evioite. An alternate spread of 228 HP / 140 Def / 140 Sp.Def with Calm nets you 26 HP, 16 Def and 18 Sp.Def instead. Due to the fact that Lileep receives the Sp.Def boost from Sandstorm, the physically defensive spread is generally superior, but the specially defensive spread can be used to sponge Ice Beams from bulky Waters better.

Porygon
@Choice Scarf
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Sp.Atk / 196 Spd
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk) Ability: Trace
Tri Attack / Ice Beam / Shadow Ball / Trick​

The cyberduck is my best out to situations that have gone out of hand. It is my strategy against "Double Rush" attacks, swiftly KOing Drilbur and Sandshrew with Ice Beam. Porygon's Speed tier is just enough to outpace all unboosted LC threats, reaching 21 speed with a Scarf while the fastest of LC pokes only reach 20 naturally.

Porygon also packs a wallop, with Tri Attack hurting many things neutrally and can induce one of three statuses. Ice Beam has good overall coverage on the tier, hitting Dragons, Grounds, Grasses and Flyings. Shadow Ball scores nice blows on Abra and notably Misdreavus, who'd like to switch in harmlessly into my STAB. Trick royally screws switch-ins such as Ferroseed, Lileep and Bronzor if timed properly. All while accompanied with very respectable bulk. I may consider Thunderbolt over Tri Attack to expand the amount of things I can revenge kill, such as Staryu, but Tri Attack or Ice Beam hits most of these targets hard anyway and giving up on my most powerful neutral move seems unfavorable.

EVs maximixe Sp.Atk and notably Speed to outrun all unboosted threats, and the rest into HP to improve upon Porygon's bulk.

Timburr
@Eviolite
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 236 Sp.Def
Nature: Careful (+Sp.Def, -Sp.Atk) Ability: Guts
Bulk Up / Drain Punch / Payback / Mach Punch​

Meet one of the most independant sweepers of LC. This poke barely needs any support to get going (though it obviously wants Psychics and Flyings out of the way first). While Misdreavus serves as a full stop to Mienfoo, she has to tread with caution against this fighter. Burning it is a risk, because while Timburr's survivability will be decreased, so is Missy's, as Guts boosted Payback will leave irreparable dents into Missy or an outright KO had Timburr acquired any boosts beforehand. Truly a dangerous force if you come unprepared.

Bulk Up boosts Timbur's Attack and Defense at once. That alone is worrisome, as Timburr already hits pretty hard and is no slouch defensively either, so amping up the difficulty in subduing Timburr can prove to be dangerous very quickly. If that weren't enough, Drain Punch allows Timburr to regain health while pounding your face in. If you don't resist the hit but do manage to survive, chances are Mach Punch can pick you off afterward, or even if you're healthy should you have low defenses (Taillow, Abra and Doduo come to mind). Payback allows Timburr to overcome the Ghost types that neuter his recovery and priority by virtue of their immunity.

The EVs lean toward Special bulk, as Timburr can either easily fend off weaker physical assaults or gets KOed by the stronger ones (Brave Bird) anyway, so improving Timburr's ability to take Misdreavus's Shadow Balls (a common scenario) greatly enhances his effectiveness. The Attack EVs allow him to get going sooner with fewer boosts so as to not risk a crit while Bulking Up.

Bronzor
@Oran Berry
EVs: 220 HP / 148 Def / 4 Sp.Atk / 68 Sp.Def / 12 Speed
Nature: Bold (Def, -Atk) Ability: Levitate
Calm Mind / Recycle / Psychic / Flash Cannon​

Bronzor provides my team with valuable resistances to Psychic, Flying and Ice which can plague my team. However, due to support roles being largely occupied by Lileep, I decided to take a different route with Bronzor, one very few would expect and sometimes still fail to realize what is happening. Bronzor utilises its excellent resistances, usable bulk even without Eviolite, and Recycle to set up Calm Minds while being impenetrable to most asssaults.

Calm Mind allows Bronzor to actually strike back, with Psychic and Flash Cannon for STABS. Mono-Psychic coverage isn't an option against Darks while mono-Steel takes too long to get past the likes of Chinchou and most importantly Magnemite, who I can overcome with Calm Mind, Recycle and Psychic. Despite this, the idea of Iron Defense to make up for my unboosted Defense has entertained me, though I'm hesitant to give up Psychic or any move for it.

Bronzor is yet another strange case. Anything below 25 base speed (Shelmet) would only have 8 speed. However, with a mere 12 Speed EV investment, Bronzor can speed tie everything up to Shellos (34 base Speed). Even better, just a touch of 4 Sp.Atk EVs bumps up Bronzor's Sp.Atk from 8 to 9. It doesn't look much, but considering that most pokemon require up to 40-60 EVs to increase a stat by 1, you literally have nothing to lose with this investment, and is a great deal. 220 HP EVs are the minimum for Bronzor to hit max HP, whereas the remaining is split between Def and Sp.Def. Much like Lileep, since Bronzor can boost its Special Defense (albeit willingly), there is more emphasis on Defense.

Bronzor is arguably the weak link of my team, it tries its best but can't seem to sweep a team despite the great concept of Recycling your healing item that restores a good deal of your health. Perhaps it's because Oran Berry fails to heal more than 50% of Bronzor's HP; perhaps because it won't heal Bronzor if not below 50%, leaving it prone to min/max damage rolls; perhaps because it can almost never act before its opponent due to the lack of priority; or perhaps beacuse it cannot do damage and heal at the same time, making it less self-sustaining than Timburr. What are your thoughts on this? Should I replace it or just tweak my moveset?

So this is my team, feel free to rate and recommend!

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

Ooo i get to rate Punchshrooms team
yay

Anyways, people are gonna call you crazy for not including at least one of the 3 kings of little cup. I would say that you don't need them. I would suggestSwitching Bronzor for Ferroseed. While it doesnt resist Flying and Psychic, I think you need the more resistances that Ferroseed packs, as well as the better movepool. If you decide on Bronzor then I would suggest Giving up Flash Cannon for Iron Defense. Considering most of the threats in LC aside from Missy are Physical attackers, getting one iron defense up will bring the token-thing's defences up to well over 30.
If you decide on Ferroseed, you might want to reconsider lileep. While it's immunity to water is nice and all, you already have Staryu and Ferroseed. you could consider Chinchou, but lileep still seems to fit better on this team. Good luck, you're one of my favourite battlers, and i hope i get to battle you some day!




Don't listen to any of this I suck at LC so i just used my knowledge here

ily

 

[Punchshroom]

The problem with Ferroseed is that it doesn't resist Ice and Flying, which is huge in the Snover and Murkrow matchup. The 4x Fire weakness is also notable when facing Heat Wave Murkrow. However, Leech Seed and Spikes are enough to be worthy of consideration, as is additional residual damage from Iron Barbs. Giving it a shot.

Looks like I'm not the only one who is interested in Iron Defense. The problem is the attacking move of choice. Since Bronzor is my main answer to SubRoost Krow, I'll be at an immediate disadvantage if I cannot touch it. Then again, Flash Cannon alone won't be enough to break through Magnemite, whereas Psychic would bring it down that much more quickly. In the end, hitting a threat for only 0.25 times the damage instead of 0.5 times is still better than not hitting the threat at all, so Flash Cannon will likely stay.

Chinchou is certainly an attractive option, since it retains the Ice and Flying resistances Bronzor has despite lacking the Psychic resistance. Access to Heal Bell however makes it a fantastic teammate to either Lileep or Ferroseed, and can rely on RestTalk for recovery since it may wake up with Sleep Talked Heal Bell and spread burns with Scald.

All options look useful, so for the sake of trying them out I'll be testing another variation of this team with the implemented changes. Also, LC warstory incoming ;).

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Lol how many warstories already?

If you're really going to put in Iron Defense, I advise against it. Instead, I believe Reflect is a better option since you're going to be keeping the boost after switching. But actually, I'm not convinced about Oran Berry + Recycle. It sounds cool and I haven't tested it yet, but wasting a turn to get back a berry seems like a waste, when you could instead try to hit something hard. Thus, I suggest a Magnemite over Bronzor. You do lose some bulk, but in the end you get to counter Ferroseed and Murkrow and resists about the same things as Bronzor does.

Other than that, not much so far. Nice team.

 

[Rowan]

As someone who has used the FWG core of Staryu, Larvesta and Lileep, I can testify to its effectiveness. It's a great core. The main thing I don't get about your team is Bronzor's role. You say it is there to beat Psychic, Flying and Ice types. Well the only common Ice type is Snover and Larvesta is already one of the best counters to Snover in the game. So it is mainly there to beat stuff like Abra and Murkrow who can both give you some trouble. Mixkrow with Heatwave will give Bronzor trouble anyway as it may not have its boosts up and doesn't carry an eviolite.

I think there are 2 pokemon which can go nicely over Bronzor and they have both been mentioned already.
Scarf Magnemite is probably my preferred one. It can outspeed Murkrow and Abra and OHKO them with electric moves. I say Scarf over eviolite because it doesn't need to take Snover hits well because you already have Larvesta and with Scarf it can avoid Murkrow's heatwave, although it must be wary about switching in.

The other pokemon is RestTalk Chinchou. This can tank hits from both Abra and Murkrow and beat them, although a Life Orb HPGrass from Murkrow still hurts. I say RestTalk over other sets as it needs the bulk to defeat them. Scarf isn't that great because then Murkrow will deal massive damage with Sucker Punch.

 

[Punchshroom]

The problem I find with Magnemite is its lack of comparable bulk to Bronzor. Would you really want to switch Magnemite into a Psychic or Blizzard more than once or sometimes even at all? The reason I listed Bronzor over Larvesta as my primary Snover switch-in is how weak Larvesta is to hazards (not to mention it can't recover as easily as Morning Sun is stunted by Hail), while Bronzor is the complete opposite. Should I replace Bronzor with Magnemite, who's taking those Blizzards now? Abra also becomes pretty threatening too, while Bronzor doesn't care whether it's LO or Focus Sash, and simply Flash Cannons Encore variants. Yeah, Mixkrow might trouble Bronzor, but Oran Berry can somewhat compensate for the lack of an Eviolite.

I'm not too sure what a Scarf Magnemite can do for my team, seeing as I already have a Scarf Porygon. Two Scarfers on the team can throw off a bit of my defensive synergy, and most threats Magnemite KOs are dealt with just as well with Porygon, who also revenges Sand Rushers. Magnemite does deal with Sucker Punch Murkrow better though, and wields greater power and equal speed to Porygon as well as having Sturdy (I don't really need Magnet Pull), so there's that.

On the subject of Bronzor, I've said it's the weak link of my team, but I've been a bit harsh to it. Its resilience to hazards, being one of the few Steels with better(?) recovery and being one of the hardest counters to Archen, SubRoost Krow, non-Mold Breaker Drilbur (more as backup) and Axew can offer it a great place on the team, and the only reason I've considered the aforementioned replacements is because they can fill its void nicely. I'll still consider Magnemite, but a Scarf one might not be for me. Magnemite also learns Recycle, though its abysmal HP and lesser defenses means it may be better of with Eviolite.

Still liking the idea of RestTalk Chinchou, going to test it when I can!

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot about scorpdestroyer. If Bronzor is going to set up, he much prefers the longer-lasting Iron Defense whose boosts can be stacked. Non-Light Clay Reflect isn't making an impact anyway as far as the team or sometimes even Bronzor is concerned.