Ferrothorn (QC: 0/3)

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BigWigs

BigWigs

[OVERVIEW]

  • Great defensive typing to beat Fairies, Colossoil, etc.
  • Good neutral bulk with 74/131/116 defenses
  • 94 Attack lets it deal good damage
  • Punishes physical attackers with Iron Barbs
  • Great utility movepool: Thunder Wave, Spikes, Stealth Rock, etc
  • Semi-reliable recovery in Leech Seed
  • Can function as a status absorber with immunity to poison and not caring much for paralysis
  • Quadruple weakness to Fire gives an Achilles' Heel for special attackers to exploit
  • Very slow; can also function as an advantage due to Gyro Ball
  • Lack of reliable recovery
  • Susceptible to burns

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 3: Protect / Thunder Wave / Toxic
move 4: Gyro Ball / Power Whip
item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 68 Def / 156 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Leech Seed brings semi-reliable recovery as well as passive damage
  • Spikes is easy to stack up with Ferrothorn's bulk and does well against defensive teams
  • Stealth Rock can be set up repeatedly through the course of the match while still having its effect in full, unlike Spikes
  • Protect can scout for potentially dangerous moves, such as Hidden Power Fire, or defend you while healing from Leech Seed or Leftovers
  • Thunder Wave allows to spread status and slow down opposing Pokemon, it may also backfire lowering Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball damage however
  • Toxic wears down switch-ins for Ferrothorn, most importantly defensive Pokemon it cannot hit otherwise such as Pyroak or Cyclohm
  • Gyro Ball is a powerful STAB that takes care of Fairies and fast Pokemon
  • Power Whip can be used to hit threatening Ground and Water types such as Colossoil and Azumarill
  • Spikes / Stealth Rock or Gyro Ball / Power Whip on the same set can work if you prefer to stack up hazards or hit more Pokemon neutrally, but can also work against Ferrothorn's longevity / utility, respectively.

Set Details
========

  • 156 Special Defense avoids the OHKO from Choice Specs Sylveon's HP Fire, and the 2HKO from Kyurem-B's Ice Beam
  • 68 Defense avoids the 2HKO from Colossoil's Knock Off and Earthquake, and then allowing to strike back with Power Whip
  • 32 Attack can OHKO Colossoil and Keldeo with Power Whip after Stealth Rock
  • Leftovers gives reliable recovery while not under the effects of Leech Seed
  • Rocky Helmet gives stacking damage with Iron Barbs
  • Sassy Nature adds to Special Defense while also making Ferrothorn slower, thus deal more damage with Gyro Ball
  • An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 12 Atk / 216 Def / 28 SpD with a Relaxed nature and the same moves can be used as a physical wall. This spread avoids the 3HKO from Colossoil's Earthquake and the 2HKO from Choice Band Talonflame's Brave Bird and Thundurus' Superpower. The 12 Atk is used to 2HKO more offensive Colossoil sets with just Gyro Ball.

Usage Tips
========

  • Try to switch into Pokemon you threaten, usually ones with resisted STABs such as Krilowatt, Azumarill, and Mega Altaria, or passive Pokemon that Ferrothorn can absorb status from such as Chansey, and set up hazards as they either switch or can't do anything to you
  • Always scout for Hidden Power Fire before switching Ferrothorn in on a special attacker
  • If your opponent has a Colossoil, try using Leech Seed instead of setting an entry hazard when you predict one to come in to see if it has Rebound
  • Don't just click Protect after using Leech Seed; the opponent is likely to switch out afterwards

Team Options
========

  • Wish/Cleric support from Pokemon like Alomomola (which can take Fire type attacks directed at Ferrothorn) or Clefable (which can easily switch into burns Ferrothorn dislikes thanks to Magic Guard) greatly improves Ferrothorn's lacking recovery as well as dealing with burns
  • Pokemon with Defiant such as Bisharp can take advantage of Defoggers trying to remove Ferrothorn's hazards
  • Fairies, especially Fire-resistant ones like Azumarill and Mega Diancie, are able to beat Fighting-type Pokemon and Cyclohm for Ferrothorn
  • Several setup sweepers, such as Mega Charizard-X and Talonflame, appreciate entry hazards wearing down bulky walls, which can be easily provided by Ferrothorn, as well as use Ferrothorn's Fire resistance as a switch-in opportunity.
  • Cyclohm easily takes care of several Pokemon Ferrothorn despises, such as Fire-type Pokemon, Tomohawk, Cawmodore, and Keldeo
  • Heatran can absorb Fire-type moves with Flash Fire as well as deal with Mega Scizor

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============
  • Shed Shell can be used as a held item to avoid getting trapped by Magnezone and Gothitelle
  • Knock Off takes care of defensive Pokemon's items (and makes dealing with Chansey a breeze) easily and constantly thanks to Ferrothorn's good bulk
  • Bulldoze hits Heatran, Mollux, and Plasmanta for 4x super effective damage, but once again can also work against Gyro Ball

Checks and Counters
===================

Fire-type Pokemon and coverage: Thanks to Ferrothorn's typing, it has a huge disadvantage against Fire-types such as Heatran, and easily loses to them most of the time. Every special attacker can also carry Hidden Power Fire to combat Ferrothorn, meaning one must scout to find out if the attacker carries the move.

Trapping: Without Shed Shell, Ferrothorn can't switch and gets easily handled by Gothitelle and Magnezone (since both tend to run Hidden Power Fire).

Fighting-type Pokemon: Ferrothorn is too slow to do anything to most Fighting types and falls easily to Fighting STAB.

Grass-type Pokemon: Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, and Pyroak can switch in on Leech Seed and strike back with super effective STABs/coverage.

Taunt: Thanks to Ferrothorn's Speed, getting taunted is easily done and locks Ferrothorn out of its fantastic utility moves, forcing it to go offensive.

Setup Sweepers: Sweepers like Cawmodore, Talonflame, and Mega Scizor can easily switch in on Ferrothorn and setup on it as Ferrothorn either switches or tries to fight back. Each one also gets a special mention, for Cawmodore able to absorb Thunder Wave, Talonflame being able to Taunt Ferrothorn and also be able to take it out off the bat with Flare Blitz, and Mega Scizor being able to Defog Ferrothorn's hazards away.

Mega Sableye: Mega Sableye's Magic Bounce discourages the use of utility moves and it's able to burn Ferrothorn back.
 
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Specially Defensive could be changed to either Defensive or Utility; there really is no need to specify Specially/Physically Defensive if there is only one set and Ferrothorn has good defensive stats on both sides. I'm leaning towards Utility as that is more descriptive of Ferrothorn's ability to set hazards and do other stuff than just wall mons.

Knock Off and Toxic should be mentioned in OO; Knock Off helps Ferrothorn wear down defensive mons by knocking off their Leftovers and also screws with Chansey and Toxic allows Ferrothorn to better pressure Cyclohm and Pyroak.

Cawmodore absolutely needs a mention in Checks and Counters, as Ferrothorn is complete setup bait for it. I'd also tack on Cawmodore as a mon that Cyclohm can handle in Team Options.
 
Mega Scizor can be added to Checks and Counters; it heals off any damage done with Roost, can clear entry hazards if it runs Defog, and can use Ferrothorn as setup bait if it runs Swords Dance. You could also group this with Cawmodore and Talonflame into a setup sweeper category. The alternate EV spread should be moved from Other Options to Set Details, and a more detailed description would be helpful for it (what OHKOs/2HKOs is this spread avoiding that the primary spread cannot, why is 12 Atk necessary, etc). Will take a more in depth look later, but this is looking pretty solid so far.
 
Implemented the changes, would like feedback on how I could shorten (and if I even should) the added Setup Sweepers section in Checks and Counters. I wanted to talk about the special qualities each sweeper specifically had against Ferrothorn, but I'm not certain if it's necessary.
 
In my opinion, there's no point in shortening it. I think it's good and useful information, and it's not even too long (lol). Anyway, some QC guy will probably ask you to expand on your information on that dot point if you shorten it, so as I said, no point.

I like your analysis, but I'll have a closer look later.
 
Hi BigWigs

I think Thunder Wave is worthy of being on the main set, as well as Toxic, since it's really Ferrothorn's only chance of pressuring opposing Pyroak and Cyclohm as cbrevan mentioned earlier, two mons it really struggles with in the metagame (while the two can both potentially heal status, it still helps with wearing them down as you switch out and gives offensive teammates a better shot at breaking them down), and it also serves as a good catch-all method of wearing down Ferrothorn's switch-ins. I also think listing the entry hazard slot before the Protect slot is optimal, as it's more vital to Ferrothorn's role, but that's just a nitpick. Therefore, I think the slashes should be...

move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 3: Protect / Thunder Wave / Toxic
move 4: Gyro Ball / Power Whip

It can be mentioned that Spikes and Stealth Rock, or Gyro Ball and Power Whip, can be run on the same set, but this can potentially put more pressure on Ferrothorn's longevity / detract from Ferrothorn's utility respectively. Others can feel free to comment on this.

In Usage Tips, I'd like to see more examples of stuff Ferrothorn can handle. Water-types in addition to Kril, such as Slowbro, Azumarill, Fairy-types, more passive stuff such as Chansey, etc. Basically, when should Ferrothorn be coming in and performing its role? A mention that Protect can be used to scout for random HP Fires could work here as well, or in move details.

In Team Options, examples of Wish users, Fairy-types, etc would be helpful so the reader knows which ones synergize the best with Ferrothorn. Offensive teammates / setup sweepers should also be listed here, for example Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Mega Altaria resist Fire-type attacks, and appreciate the entry hazard support that Ferrothorn provides.

Great work with this so far BigWigs, let me know if you had any questions on any of this.
 
Updated with the changes, I'll try to think of more additions tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Just a reminder, if you update some things, but choose not to update others, then you should specify which things were not updated... For example, it's quite clear that you didn't update the set slashes. I'm not sure if you just forgot to do this or if you had reasons on why you chose not...

  • An alternate EX spread of 252 HP / 12 Atk / 216 Def / 28 SpD with a Relaxed nature and the same moves can be used as a physical wall. This spread gets merely 4HKOed by Colossoil's Earthquake, while the specially defensive spread gets 3HKOed and can also avoid the 2HKO from Choice Band Talonflame's Brave Bird. The 12 Atk is used to 2HKO more offensive Colossoil sets with just Gyro Ball.
Click to expand...

I think your alternate spread is phrased a bit weirdly, as it jumps between the main spread and back to make comparisons. Ending on a note to KO Colossoil with Gyro Ball also seems sort of weird to me, and it makes me question if 12 is a dump EV or if the 28 SpD EVs are the leftovers...
 
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